U.S.: 3 Guantanamo inmates commit suicide

Originally posted by KhieuSamphan

BBC - 11 June 2006


But lawyers say the men who hanged themselves had been driven by despair.

Those lawyers are known liars therefore I hardly take anything they say as the truth.

Hi shots,
It seems to me sometimes that the conflict in Iraq has taken the form of a full blown civil war. If the 'insurgents' are defeated but an essentially internal conflict remains, how do you think US forces should react?

I'm not fishing by the way. Genuinely interested.

Nah you are fishing this is the 2nd time today you have tried it.

There is no full blown civil war as you put it the insurgents just want you to think there is. Now if they were fighting out in the open streets hand to hand, gun to gun, you might have a point, but it is still business as usual as I see it. They are still using cars to blow innocent people up and that is an insurgent tactic.

Originally posted by shots
Nah you are fishing this is the 2nd time today you have tried it.

Lol. Fair enough. Sorry to have wasted your time.

All I can do is maintain what I've maintained since the start of this conflict: I am saddened to learn of the deaths (even deaths sought after by the dead) of people on either "side," irrespective of fault, creed, politics, race, or allegiance. Likewise, I am saddened by the multitude of forms violence takes, the vast majority of which - contrary to popular belief - are non-physical.

I won’t take sides with regard to the politics, ideals, or philosophies of the opposing forces in this conflict. I don't blame one side more than the other. I’m just sad to see death, continually, on a daily basis, for any reason, anywhere in the world, that might under different circumstances be life.

I don't like this gloating over and praising of death, even if they were guilty of terrorism or some other crime. I find it disturbing that government officials in particular are using and talking about deaths in such a manner.

A page or so ago two of you guys were arguing over the issue of hunger-strikes. Seems to me that it is obvious that they only go on hunger strikes while their lawyers and/or the media is there. Going four years without any food is some trick!

Originally posted by TheBandit795

Originally posted by XphilesPhan

my family and I are not suspected terrorists and as an AMERICAN I have a right to a speedy trial.

So??? DOn't these people have that right too??.. Uhh no, look at your bigoted answer below.

THESE PEOPLE ARE NOT AMERICANS AND ARE NOT ENTITLED TO THE SAME RIGHTS AS I!!!!!!

I could never respect such a b.s. statement. In fact this is the worst thing I've seen anyone on ATS say about other people. Imprisoning these people for so many years without a REASON is a war crime IMO. A FREAKING WAR CRIME!!!

AMERICAN RIGHTS DOES NOT EQUAL WORLD WIDE RIGHTS!!!!

But we are all human beings, and we all have the same rights to live. So who are you to say that. These people were rounded up and jailed indefinately. Their families don't even know if they're still alive or not.At least one of those detainees is or was from England and had nothing to do with any war. He was just in the wrong place at the wrong time and got rounded up. This was in the news a few years bac

they did not fight and die for these rights, thus they dont have them.

And you didn't fight and die for your rights either. AND I DON"T CARE IF YOUR ANCESTORS DID!!! Now please cut this ignorant ranting out.

~SONNED SONNED..>SON

::::hummed to dragnet theme::

There is no reason to imprison them because they can't prove anything so they drag their feet in the dirt.

How cowardly has America become? We fly out "Enemy combatants" to foreign countries in brutal interrogations to commit them on possible innocent people. Just because we can't face up to the reality of what is really going on. Be a real american and face up to the truth that "some" of these prisoners are not "al queda" or "Terrorists"
And stop using talking points and armchair warrior rhetoric like, "You hate america" Everytime someone asks a serious question about what these prisoners are charged with.
This isn't the country I know.

And some ATS members wants to give us a lecture why Git Mo prisoners are all dangerous. It's just such a faulty debate. There is nothing there for you to keep people in prison because you are scared and you live in a Hyper sensitive Xenophobic Shell.


Bandit is right. People who spout rhetoric like this on a daily basis without any facts gets tiresome. I'd expect that from News Max and World News Daily and Drudge Report. Not ATS.....

See it from the point of the view of the GIT Mo family members who know their husband/brother/cousin/uncle/etc know he's innocent. Because if you can't you are a hypocrite.. And spare me the story about your family members who fought for their rights in America. I could give a damn what you fear. Get over your xenophobic fears. And let's not always reduce this into a "Hate America" stump speech.

So fake and plastic

Originally posted by Souljah

Originally posted by FlyersFan
A hunger strike by terrorists isn't 'rapid deterioration'. It's them acting out.
Suicide and suicide attempts by the terrorists are not proof of anything. They
are willing to kill themselves as suicide bombers. They are willing to kill
other muslims who are out shopping or standing in pay lines in Iraq. They
are willing to kill muslim children who are playing.

Give me PROOF that the People held in Guatnanamo ARE Terrorists apart from the word coming from the filthy mouth of mister Rumsfeld or mister Bush. Give me one single TRIAL supported with EVIDENCE so the World can see, that these people indeed are worlds-top-deadly-terorists and that they are just waiting to commit more attacks upon American people or others. WHERE IS THIS PROOF?

Give CREDIBLE proof of 'rapid deterioration' at GITMO.

Well, 150 on Hunger strike, several suicide attempts and now 3 suicides?

What is PROOF for you?

A mass suicide of 500 Detainees?

The terrorists there are getting the best medical care of their lives.

You mean Force Feedings?

The terrorists there are getting three, more than adequate,
'religion appropriate' meals a day.

Sure they are.

The terrorists get their Islamic worship items (at US tax payer expense!) and
an Islamic chaplain who speaks their language.

Wow - I am Impressed!

Their housing is more than adequate for enemy combatant prisoners.

Can you also show me the PROOF that they indeed are Enemy Combatants?

Or can you show me One Trial, which prosecuted them in according to the Internatioanl Law?


Well I think I have to give one more award:

snip

[edit on 11-6-2006 by mrwupy]

Can we give out Sonned awards? ::Hands Souljah for way above "sonnage" :::
There is no proof. It's just xenophobic fears coming to the surface. These ATS'rs would be losing it if their family members were in a detainment camp.

Appears one the them was due to be released but didn't know it.

Shots says in response to the statement that "lawyers say the men who hanged themselves had been driven by despair".

Those lawyers are known liars therefore I hardly take anything they say as the truth.

The only printable retort I have to your statement, Shots, is how unbelievably assinine it was to say that, let alone to think or believe it.

Have you EVER read the opening phrases of the Declaration of Independence. Does it speak of only Americans? US Citizens? US Residents? US military personnel? US bureaucrats? No! No! No! It declares that certain self-evident truths apply to "all men". It says "We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness.--" That is what it says. I quess you forgot or maybe never paid much attention to what it means, fundamentally, to be an American.

Maybe you won't believe me, so here's a link so you can read it yourself without having to make too many burdensome keystrokes to find it:

www.archives.gov...

It suggests, does it not, that all men (humans) are to be extended a due measure of human dignity and fair treatment? Even by the likes of Bush, Cheney, Rumsfeld, Gonzales, and the boys on down the chain of "command".

Do you and those of your stripe bother to fire a neuron before you press the POST key? What an outstanding display of what it means to be an ultra conservative big-brother-can-do-no-wrong American. Certainly, no-one would be reduced to despair under the conditions those people have been held for the past several years? Way to stand up for your country! I can hear the Star-Spangled Banner and God Bless America playing out-of-tune in the background. You certainly know how to display your colors, and they sure as hell are NOT red, white, and blue. Just keep it up. Do you truly think that America has no need for the good will of the rest of the world's people? Acn't you comprehend how self-destructive that stupid blind arrogance is? @#$@#!!!! That applies equally to Flyersfan and XPhilesPhan.

Reading this b.s. firmly hammers home just how important it is to change the guard in this country come November 2006 and 2008. We can't afford any more of the damage done to America and the world by these heartless soulless megalomaniacal thugs. The latter adjective seems more appropos by the day.



[edit on 6/12/2006 by dubiousone]

Originally posted by shots
Those lawyers are known liars therefore I hardly take anything they say as the truth.

And THE ARMY is NOT a KNOWN Liar?



Yes! By All means - let's belive the words coming out of the mouth of a General!

Guantanamo suicides 'acts of war'

The suicides of three detainees at the US base at Guantanamo Bay, Cuba, amount to acts of war, the US military says.

The camp commander said the two Saudis and a Yemeni were "committed" and had killed themselves in "an act of asymmetric warfare waged against us".

The GENERAL says the Suicides were an ACT OF WAR!

Asymmetrical Warfare AGIANST the Poor US troops.

Yep.

I belive what an US Army General says every single time.



[edit on 12/6/06 by Souljah]

Originally posted by Simon_Boudreaux


Appears one the them was due to be released but didn't know it.

Yes it true. BBC news.
news.bbc.co.uk...
NOT on US news!!
141 prisoners scheduled for release.
I bet the soliders new!
Democracy at work!
Well it would have taken the rest to hold him down.

If it is a PR move then they should shoot their PR man!
It took him 4 1/2 years to come up will this Idea !
General opinion in UK is US are #!

newsforums.bbc.co.uk...

Adolph Hitler invaded Poland !
Bush is following in his footsteps.

Originally posted by Souljah
The GENERAL says the Suicides were an ACT OF WAR!

Guess you haven't been watching the news for the past couple of
decades, have you? Suicide definately IS a way the terrorists wage
war. Homicide by suicide is usually how it works, but hey, they are
branching out a bit. One step leads to the next. They don't care
about their own lives, or anyone elses. Suicide is a way of war
with them. That's the truth and the bottom line.

Originally posted by dubiousone
no-one would be reduced to despair under the conditions those
people have been held for whay, four or more years?

It's not despair. You are judging them by your own life. They
aren't in despair. They don't care for their own lives or anyone
else's. Their suicides ARE warfare. It's just that simple.

That goes equally for Flyersfan and XPhilesPhan.
The depth of your arrogance is astounding.

Blah blah blah.
The depth of your misunderstanding of the situation and what
motivates the terrorists is what is REALLY astounding.

We can't afford much more of the kind of damage done to America
and the world by these heartless soulless megalomaniacal thugs.

We can't afford much more of the kind of damage done to America and
the world by these hearless and soulless megalomaniacal thugs - the
terrorists and enemy combatants. THAT is why they are at GITMO.

Have you EVER read the opening phrases of the Declaration of Independence

Yes. And no where in the Declaration of Independence does it say that
we should allow murderers and international terrorists to run amuk. No
where does it say that we have to give 'life and liberty' to those who
radicals who blow up innocent Iraqis in the market place or to those who
are plotting to blow up innocent Americans in NYC or in our embassies.

You best go reread the Declaration of Independence. It's NOT
a free ticket for those people. They are responsible for their own
actions and for being where they are now. They made their beds.
Now they will lie in them.





[edit on 6/12/2006 by FlyersFan]

Originally posted by MRGERBIK
How cowardly has America become?

Yeah, right. America, and the coalition of the willing, were the ones who
were brave enough to step in and stop Saddam from mass murdering and
mass torturing and mass raping. WE were the ones ... not the UN.
WE were the ones, not France or Germany who were in bed with Saddam;
taking bribes and stealing billions of $$$ in Oil for Food money from the
Iraqis. Cowardly. Yeah, riiiiiiiiiight

We fly out "Enemy combatants"

No quotes around that term are needed. They are definately enemy combatants.

Just because we can't face up to the reality of what is really going on.

Look at who isn't facing up to reality. Best look in the mirror.
The enemy combatants are murderers and thugs. They blow up
innocent iraqis. They plan attacks on American embassies. They
plot and execute assassinations on freely elected Iraqi government
officials. They terrorize the Iraqis telling them that they will kill them
if they vote. They are evil pure and simple. Face up. That's reality.

Be a real american and face up to the truth

back atchya.

And stop using talking points and armchair warrior rhetoric like,
"You hate america"

If people say that to you, then perhaps it's true. Do you hate America?
Or are you just keeping you head in the sand when it comes to the truth
about these terrorists and why they are being held? It's one or the other.

some ATS members wants to give us a lecture why
Git Mo prisoners are all dangerous.

Most likely they tell you that the GITMO prisoners are dangerous,
because THEY ARE dangerous.

GIT Mo family members who know their husband/brother/
cousin/uncle/etc know he's innocent.

Ah yes .. the family is always the last to know about the misdeeds
of their offspring. If they 'know' that their family member is innocent
then they also have their heads in the sand. 'Little Johnny' (or in this
case - little Muhamad) isn't 'innocent' when he blows people up and
he shoots at freely elected officials of the Iraqi government.

Wait a minuet!
You @#$% you've Evan got me saying they are terrorists.
They are Not terrorists. US invaded a country.
US declared WAR!
They are prisons of WAR.
Capture’d defending their country.
As the tyrants of USA invaded.
Saying “they have bombs as big as are bombs!
Well all most!”
STILL NO SIGN OF ANY BOMBS!

So now the investigation into the suicides of the 3 detainees at Guantanamo Bay Prison camp is under way....

Will this be a cover up?

The Military are investigting it, why not allow civillian, investigators in let them investigate it so it is not classed as a cover up...

Just remember out of 460 detainees being held at the camp only 10 have actually been charged with crimes... to me is weird, if they have something on the rest why not charge them there and then or are they waiting for the supreme court ruling in July to weither or not the Miliitary Tribunals are valid

[edit on 12-6-2006 by spencerjohnstone]

Guardian

"It does sound like this is part of a strategy - in that they don't value their own lives, and they certainly don't value ours; and they use suicide bombings as a tactic," Colleen Graffy, the deputy assistant secretary of state for public diplomacy, told BBC's Newshour yesterday. "Taking their own lives was not necessary, but it certainly is a good PR move."

On Saturday, the camp's commander, Navy Rear Admiral Harry Harris, said the suicides were an al-Qaida tactic. "They have no regard for life, neither ours nor their own. I believe this was not an act of desperation, but an act of asymmetrical warfare waged against us," he said.

The Danish prime minister, Anders Fogh Rasmussen, a staunch ally of the US in Iraq, said that Guantánamo was damaging America's image in the world, and undermining the global war on terror. "I think it would be to the benefit of our cause, and our fight for freedom and for democracy, if the facilities at Guantánamo were closed down," the Danish leader told CNN.

In Stockholm, Sweden's foreign minister, Jan Eliasson, voiced similar concerns about the lack of due process. "It shows the importance of letting the prisoners free or giving them a statutory trial."

In Saudi Arabia, officials at the semi-official human rights organisation accused the prison administration of torturing the men to death. "Even if the suicide story is true, I have no doubts that they were pushed to it by torture and the lack of attention paid to the health of the detainees," said Saleh al-Khathlan of the Saudi human rights group.

Lawyers for the detainees called the comments by administration officials deeply offensive. Gitanjali Gutierrez, a lawyer for the Centre for Constitutional Rights, which represents most of the detainees, said: "It's very clear that any human being who is kept in indefinite detention over four years, not given any kind of hearing, and whose life and fate is subject to such uncertainty, inevitably will contemplate suicide, and the fact that three of them finally succeeded comes as no surprise. This is not an act of warfare, it is a consequence of inhumane and immoral treatment of human beings by the United States."

In Britain, Massoud Shadjareh, of the Islamic Human Rights Commission, said of the US officials' remarks: "This is the sort of statement that SS officers in Nazi Germany would have been envious of." Inayat Bunglawala, of the Muslim Council of Britain, deplored the "incredibly insensitive and callous" comments. "The deaths of these three people was not an act of war, it was an act of desperation."

Suicides were a "PR Move"?

Did the Al-Qaeda PR-Agent call them up to Gitmo and said to them, that it would be most critical and important in this moment, that they take their lives, so that the international pressure on US would increase?

Not very Likely.

Wouldn't care if they committed suicide, if not in prison, then in the battlefield. Its just similar to American prisoners on the mainland where people want to die because they don't want to be in prison for life. Its a fact.

Originally posted by spencerjohnstone
So now the investigation into the suicides of the 3 detainees at Guantanamo Bay Prison camp is under way....

Will this be a cover up?

There’s nothing to cover up, the investigation is probably just standard procedure, why do some people want there to be a cover-up?