U.S.: 3 Guantanamo inmates commit suicide

Originally posted by shots
Stop with your spreading lies and proaganda Souljah you will only end up hurting your crditablity more then it is already. There are not 150 on a hunger strike that is wrong.

89 on Hunger Strike at Gitmo

Wow, we should all feel better now that instead of 150 people on hunger strikes, there are only 89.

I personally think this is terrible. We are supposed to be the Americans. We are supposed to be the ones that are most benevolent in the world. It seems that the argument has come down to "there's no such thing as an international trial for these people" and "they aren't American citizens, they deserve nothing."

Well, the America that I pay taxes to and am a citizen of, would hopefully recoil and say, "oh my, we need to fix this, there must be something we can do!" Nope not anymore, that America seems to be long gone judging by how some of the Americans in here post. I cannot believe that someone would actually respond back to someone's number on the hunger strike, by denying it, with the back up of it being "only more than half." How terrible!

Lies and propaganda? If it come to me being called a liar and a propagandist, as you did to Souljah, then I will be perfectly content with that. I have a feeling that being on the blind side of a blind truth would be too simple of a life, when I enjoy the one where I can question anything and still have my head attached to my neck.

89 detainees on hunger strikes.....do you think that's why the guards are force feeding them? Because they are there to take care of their well being? Or should the guards just let them starve to death?
Four and a half years is more than enough time to do background checks,file criminal charges, etc., the genaralization that all prisoners at Gitmo are terrorists needs more than just lipsynch.
3 detainees committing suicide at once, and succeeding, means something isn't being aknowledged. Is it a religious protest? Bad food? Selective genocide by the guards? Or did someone from Bill O'Reilly's news crew slip them a few "get out of jail free (in a box)" pills?
I would just like to have an answer as to what were the motivations for their deaths.

Originally posted by FlyersFan

Originally posted by Souljah
First - the conditions in Guantanamo are rapidly deteriorating; there are about 150 prisoners on hunger strike, there have been around 30 suicide attempts (or more) and now we have 3 confirmed suicides.

A hunger strike by terrorists isn't 'rapid deterioration'. It's them acting out.
Suicide and suicide attempts by the terrorists are not proof of anything. They
are willing to kill themselves as suicide bombers. They are willing to kill
other muslims who are out shopping or standing in pay lines in Iraq. They
are willing to kill muslim children who are playing.



[edit on 6/11/2006 by FlyersFan]

How can they be anything more than suspects if they haven't been put on trial?

People are saying that no one cares about our criminals in jail, only the terrorists. That made me think about how we only praise the armed forces for defending our country when we are at war. People give them anything and everything they could ever want or need when we are at war. When we are not at war, everyone forgets about them. Also we praise the troops so highly for defending us IF there is a war, but everyone forgets about the Police, EMT's and Firefighters, that protect us everyday, 24 hours a day. No one gives them free cars or house because of the job they do. I know it is a little off subject, but I just wanted to get that in there.

Originally posted by shots
Stop with your spreading lies and proaganda Souljah you will only end up hurting your crditablity more then it is already. There are not 150 on a hunger strike that is wrong.

89 on Hunger Strike at Gitmo

News BBC

Guantanamo hunger strike escalates

Two-thirds of the terror suspects being held at Camp X-Ray in Guantanamo Bay have now joined a hunger strike that began on Wednesday.

A US military spokesman said 194 inmates refused to eat lunch on Thursday and began chanting "God is great" in Arabic, as part of a protest which started when two guards removed an inmate's turban while he was praying.

Two Thirds?

News BBC

Guantanamo hunger strike staged

The prisoners, many of whom have been held for more than three years without charge, are believed to be demanding an immediate trial or release.

Lawyers for the detainees say about 200 are refusing all food. Military officials put the number at 76.

Lawysers say 200 - Pentagon 76.

CNN

Hunger strike at Guantanamo grows

The number of Guantanamo Bay detainees taking part in a hunger strike has swelled to about a quarter of the prison population over the past month, according to Pentagon officials.

Since August 8, the number of detainees refusing food has slowly increased from several dozen to 128, according to the Pentagon.

CNN says 128.

Washington Post

More Join Guantanamo Hunger Strike

A month-old hunger strike at the U.S. military prison at Guantanamo Bay, Cuba, has grown to include at least 128 detainees, 18 of whom are forcibly receiving intravenous fluids or nutrition in the prison hospital, military officials and detainee lawyers said yesterday.

Washington Post too.

Hunger Strike at Guantanamo

First dozens, then more than 200 prisoners stopped eating in August. Apparently hunger strikes have happened before at Guantamano, but until recently the U.S. authorities prevented any information about them from reaching the news media. Because U.S. authorities didn't fulfill their earlier promises to improve conditions, more and more detainees have joined the latest action. This time the hunger strikers have pledged to fast until death. U.S. authorities have hospitalized and begun force-feeding more than a dozen.

Some reports say 200.

Amnesty International

USA: Guantánamo hunger strikers critically ill

“The US military appears to be systematically downplaying the hunger strike in order to avoid international criticism,” said Susan Lee, Americas Director at Amnesty International. “In July they denied the existence of a hunger strike two weeks after it had started. Now they seem to be understating the number of detainees involved and the gravity of the medical condition of several of the detainees. This policy once again demonstrates the lack of transparency around all US detention practices and policies in the ‘war on terror’”.

As many as 210 people are said to be taking part in the current hunger strike in Guantánamo Bay, although the US Department of Defense has put the figure as low as 36. Detainees' lawyers put this low figure down to the criteria used to determine who is technically on hunger strike. The US military defines a hunger strike as the refusal of nine consecutive meals within a 72 hour period. Reports from lawyers suggest that detainees are accepting one meal in this timeframe, but then flushing the meal down the toilet to avoid being force-fed through nasal gastric tubes.

Propaganda?

Lies?

From Which side?

From Pentagon?

OFCOURSE NOT!

How could I even Think about such Thing!

Once again you fail Souljah each and every link you used is from last year or as early as 2002.

Now run along and check the date of the source I used

Originally posted by shots
Once again you fail Souljah each and every link you used is from last year or as early as 2002.

What exactly are you trying to Proove?

That conditions in Gitmo are "Improoving", because the numbers is lower?

The mere event of hunger strike, suicide attempts and now, 3 "Suicids" tell you something is Not Very Healthy inside there.

But I guess you do not care if all of them hand themselves anyway.

They are just a bunch of Terrorists.

Good Riddance, right?

Just say it already.

what exactly are you trying to prove with those outdated links?

I can not believe some of you people!
You lead by example.
And your example gives them more reason to hate you.
I just pity you.
Not all of them are guilty.
Most wear just Defending there country.
And they are being brain washt to death!
If some one tells you to kill you’re self for years.
You would to. Or go insane.
And as for your own prisons,
Do YOU do any thing about it?
Evan Adolph Hitler let the Red Cross see his prisoners.
Are you telling me a yank solder would not do a
Suicide attack to kill as many of the enema as posible?
"@#$% spell cheaker"


[edit on 11/6/06 by caineunholy]

[edit on 11/6/06 by caineunholy]

Originally posted by Souljah


What exactly are you trying to Proove?

Gee I thought it was obvious. Allow me to slow down and spell it out for
y o u

The Figures You are Using are Incorrect and Outdated

Originally posted by shots
The Figures You are Using are Incorrect and Outdated

So if they are OUT-dated, that means that the problem of hunger strike happened even before and it is going on for around 4 years, if some of the link are old as much as 2002. Now imagine what happens in 4 years in Gitmo.

Where is the Evidence about those Terrorists?

Where is the Trial?

Where is the War Tribual?

Where is the Conviction?

Oh - I forgot; they are all super-terrorists and if they get out, first thing they do, is going to be kill an American closest to them.

So they must be locked up forever and maybe - if You get lucky - they will eventually "Commit Suicide" and they will not "Blow up Innocent People".

3 Guantanamo suicides co-ordinated

Amnesty International said the apparent suicides "are the tragic results of years of arbitrary and indefinite detention" and said the prison was a blight on the Bush administration.

"Today's reported suicides of detainees in Guantanamo should serve as a wake-up call to President Bush and his administration that Guantanamo is not just a public relations problem, but instead an indictment on its deteriorating human rights record."

Barbara Olshansky of the Center for Constitutional Rights said in a telephone interview from New York that those held at Guantanamo "have this incredible level of despair that they will never get justice. And now they're gone. And they died without ever having seen a court."

You think Anyone of the Detainees will EVER See a Court?

[edit on 11/6/06 by Souljah]

Congratulations to these vermin for their success in achieving martyrdom....hopefully many more at guantanamo heed their brave example and are successful at suicide, may they enjoy their virgins!

Originally posted by Souljah

So if they are OUT-dated, that means that the problem of hunger strike happened even before and it is going on for around 4 years, if some of the link are old as much as 2002. Now imagine what happens in 4 years in Gitmo.

Your Ignorance is showing Souljah. Some of the examples you used that YOU claimed were a hunger strike were not. Don't believe be look of the defintion of a hunger strike. One of your sources as I recall stated perhaps 75 missed one meal. DUH that is not a hunger strike by defintion, again do not believe me look it up.

As for the length of stay that seems apparent they will be released when the conflict is over just as any POW would. Keep in mind that civilian collaborators were detained during WWII for the duration (very similar to this situation) and no one made a fuss then did they?

All this brew ha ha is nothing more then a bunch of activists shooting off their mouths about nothing

Originally posted by shots
Your Ignorance is showing Souljah.

My Ignorance?

DUH that is not a hunger strike by defintion, again do not believe me look it up.

What IS a hunger strike by THE Definition?

As for the length of stay that seems apparent they will be released when the conflict is over just as any POW would.

When the Conflict is Over?

When is that?

2057?

Keep in mind that civilian collaborators were detained during WWII for the duration (very similar to this situation) and no one made a fuss then did they?

So you are comparing US to Nazi Detention Camps?

Cute!

All this brew ha ha is nothing more then a bunch of activists shooting off their mouths about nothing

Yeah - Bunch of Anti-War Activists!

Friggin' Tree Huggers!

Send them all to GITMO!

I tryd to delete it????

[edit on 11/6/06 by caineunholy]

Originally posted by Souljah

What IS a hunger strike by THE Definition?

Ah not only are you showing your ignorance you are showing that you are lazy. Not my problem look it up yourself.

When the Conflict is Over?

When is that?

2057?

Nope the conflict is over when insurgents stop killing innocents or sign a surrender

So you are comparing US to Nazi Detention Camps

No I simply used that as a comparison between WWII and the current conflict. I did not mention Nazi's you did. I stated civilian collaborators were detained and interned during WWII which is fact and not by Germans either. The British detained some as did the US and other nations.

BBC - 11 June 2006

A top US official has described the suicides of three detainees at the US base at Guantanamo Bay, Cuba, as a "good PR move to draw attention".

Colleen Graffy told the BBC the deaths were part of a strategy and "a tactic to further the jihadi cause", but taking their own lives was unnecessary.

But lawyers say the men who hanged themselves had been driven by despair.

I don't know about anyone else, but it seems to me that the fact the US has actually come out and made this accusation may actually serve to enhance any 'PR stunt', particularly in the eyes of overseas allies. Apparently there are murmurs of discontent emanating from the UK, Germany and Denmark.

Originally posted by shots
Nope the conflict is over when insurgents stop killing innocents or sign a surrender

Hi shots,

It seems to me sometimes that the conflict in Iraq has taken the form of a full blown civil war. If the 'insurgents' are defeated but an essentially internal conflict remains, how do you think US forces should react?

I'm not fishing by the way. Genuinely interested.


[edit on 11-6-2006 by KhieuSamphan]

Originally posted by Souljah
.... tell you something is Not Very Healthy inside there.

No. It says that the terrorists, who love killing fellow muslims,
and who look forward to committing suicide by blowing themselves up
and murdering people, want to kill themselves. They are brainwashed
and think it's some maryterdom and that it will get them to heaven.
It has nothing to do with the care or the housing. It's all on THEM.

They are just a bunch of Terrorists. Good Riddance, right?

Yes. Right. Good riddance.

I find it interesting that no one has thought that the suicide of the 3 inmates on Saturday could be linked to the recent death of Abu Musab al-Zarqawi by the Allied Military. Which is what I am thinking would have been the reason for them to take their own lives. As someone one here mentioned, they could have very well known that their deaths would have reflected badly on America, not only from Americans but also from the rest of the world, ESPECIALLY people/countries that are Anti-American and Muslim nations.

As far as the hunger strikes go ... IMO, it is our job to provide them with the proper nutriotion, even religion appropriate meals .. However, it's their own responsibility to feed themselves. Give them the food, if they do not choose to eat it for whatever reason, let them suffer the consequences of their OWN actions.

America has also taken proper care of their P.O.W.'s ... But American P.O.W.'s have not always been properly cared for. Ask a POW from Vietnam or WW2 or from the Korean War. Hell, for that matter, ask the POW's (that survived) from the first Gulf War or even ones from this war who have manged to survive and been rescued/escaped. You don't even have to find military POW's ... How about watching the beheading video of Nick Berg. How about reading the stories of PRO-Islam journalist being abducted and murdered. How about reading the stories from non-Iraqi civilians who were there to help Iraqis rebuild homes, businesses, roads, churches and schools that were taken prisoner and tortured and/or murdered.

I also agree with something to someone else said on here ... The Bill of Rights and The Constitution of the United States are FOR The UNITED STATES! They are in place to protect America and the American people. However, no matter what race, religion or country you are from, you are ALSO protected by these while in America, that includes Camp X-Ray. These prisoners are FREE to pratice their religion and pray. They are FREE to meet with their legal counselor. They are FREE to speak their mind and views even when it is Anti-U.S. They are given FREE medical care to ensure their health and well-being .. including medications and surgeries that some American Citizens can't even get or afford when they NEED it to save their lives.

When Allied Soldiers are captured they are murdered in the streets, heads cut off, bodies set on fire and drug the streets from other people to kick, spit on and even throw gasoline on to the flames.

You wanna be fair about it ... Give those POW's in Gitmo the choice ...
1) Stay Here a little longer with food, shelter, medical attention, legal counsel and freedom to practice your religion?
or
2) We take you to NYC, but a bullet in your head or cut it off while you're still alive and then let the people of New York set your body on fire with gasoline and drag you down the streets behind Taxi Cabs while other people kick the hell out of you?

Which one do you think they're going to choose?

ALLIED SOLDIERS ARE NOT GIVEN THE CHANCE TO DECIDE!!

If they want to go on a hunger strike, LET THEM .. because eventually they're either going to eat something or they're going to die from their own choice .. BUT ATLEAST THEY'RE GIVEN THE CHOICE TO MAKE!

I was shocked to hear these three suicides described by a US government official as "a good PR exercise". Are these people held without trial, without the usual rights not even seen as human beings anymore. Seems to me that the so called "war on terror" is making us into monsters. Maybe for all our apathy, our willingness to be led, we truly do get the governments we deserve, governments who will happily treat humans as animals as in this case, and governments who will think nothing of shooting innocent civilians as in my own country. What a truly sad state of affairs, it makes me honestly ashamed to be a white man living in the western world.

[edit on 11/6/06 by Implosion]