9-11 conspiracy,I don't think so.

Originally posted by HowardRoark
A favorite claim by the pro-conspiracy group. Usually made by people who have no real experience in how large organizations work.

If you honestly think that only one or two people in each of those groups could have possibly pulled this off without every mid-level manager, secretary, field personnel, etc, knowing about it as well, then you ore hopelessly naïve.

I never said I thought just one or two in each group was only involved. I notice anti-conspiracy groups like to take things we say out of context and run with it.

And thanks for calling me stupid. I think you are stupid too.

Originally posted by diggs
And thanks for calling me stupid. I think you are stupid too.

But at least I know the difference between stupidity and naiveté.

Howard, your opinion is just as good as the next persons as to how many people were realistically involved.

Do I believe there something conspiracal behind these attacks? Yes, instead of nit picking the Pentagon issue or the plane crash in Pennsylvannia and not over think on events preceding and post 9/11 of key political men/businesses, then you notice that something indeed was planned and executed.

That's not to say there weren't terrorists on board the craft, they could of very well gave some Saudis or Arabs the free ride to make an impact on America... but I'm not going to delve into this any further, this is more an issue of the argument with using the justification argument of "Occam's Razor".

Originally posted by diggs

Originally posted by Mouth
My question is....

If 9/11 was a conspiracy, what the hell were they trying to cover up? The people on those planes died, along with thousands of other civillians.... what would be the point of the US government doing all of that? someone please explain...

You think we'd be in Afghanistan and Iraq if 9/11 didn't happen? You think the Bush Administration would have been able to get the PATRIOT ACT passed and Homeland Security Dept formed without 9/11? You think the oil and defense industry would be making record profits right now if the attacks didn't happen?

There is an easy way to find out who was behind something, just ask yourself who benefitted most from it. I can't see at all how Osama or "Al Qaida" benefitted. Plus all the evidence points to it being an inside job.

Let me first just say that I am mostly playing devil's advocate here. All the evidence certainly does not point to an inside job. All the quantities of money going to beneficiariespoints to an inside job. The evidence for the collapse of the two towers is actually more convincing that it was the result of failed structural integrity-cause by the impact of the planes. Same for the Pentagon. I'm not saying that the government had nothing to do with it, only that the role in which most people seem to keep placing them doesn't really follow, considering the evidence
I haven't spent much time on this forum subject, but a fairly lengthy argument on the towers was made here:
Trade Center Collapse Argument
The evidence for both sides is argued in fair length. You decide.

Originally posted by diggs

Originally posted by HowardRoark
And so on and so on. Every one of the conspiracy theories advanced so far requires the willing participation of any number of groups and individuals.

A lot more than just a “few insiders.”

So is it impossible that just a few people from each of these org's where conspirators and not the entire group? All these org's are very top down. I don't see any problem of just a few at the top knowing. It's interesting how the fire dept was set in motion towards the Pentagon BEFORE the attack and how all the fire commanders were in the general vicinity as the attack happen. I'm not saying all the commanders knew, but it sure seems like someone had them be at the right place at the right time! Or is that just another of the many many many coincidences of that day?

It has been said before. I don't care how much money a person is given, someone is eventually going to talk to someone--most especially "high level people". The only other explanation is that the people involved belief strongly enough in the conspiracy and cover-up to not talk about it. You're telling me that the Fire Commanders of all the unit stations in the city are just tired of the monotonous machine that America has become, and a war is needed to stimulate our economy? Please. And if all of them did recieve some large quantity of money, where is it? No tax audits for them over the sudden increase in their bank accounts? Is the IRS in on this too, or is it all just under their mattresses?

Also, in regards to the fire crew headed that way before the plane hit, there was still one passenger liner unaccounted for after the towers. They knew that the hijacked aircraft was in the vicinity and were on a low alert. The fire department was most likely EXPECTING some kind of collision in the area.

[edit on 31-5-2006 by EdenKaia]

Originally posted by EdenKaia
Also, in regards to the fire crew headed that way before the plane hit, there was still one passenger liner unaccounted for after the towers. They knew that the hijacked aircraft was in the vicinity and were on a low alert. The fire department was most likely EXPECTING some kind of collision in the area.

[edit on 31-5-2006 by EdenKaia]

www.mipt.org...

I beleive that they were nearby on an unrelated call.

Originally posted by HowardRoark

Originally posted by EdenKaia
Also, in regards to the fire crew headed that way before the plane hit, there was still one passenger liner unaccounted for after the towers. They knew that the hijacked aircraft was in the vicinity and were on a low alert. The fire department was most likely EXPECTING some kind of collision in the area.
[edit on 31-5-2006 by EdenKaia]

www.mipt.org...
I beleive that they were nearby on an unrelated call.

was that the one where they were called to a high rise apartment fire and the fire was out as soon as they arrived? Must have been another one of those many many 9/11 coincidences, aye?

I'd like to point out that Occam's razor is a good thing to remember, but in everyday common English it basically means that the simplest explanation is more likely to be correct. Not always, not even most times, but just more likely.

And just because some think the government was complicit doesn't mean there weren't 19 guys with boxcutters. There very well could have been. There's just more we need to find out about this before we close the case.

Originally posted by Benevolent Heretic
I'd like to point out that Occam's razor is a good thing to remember, but in everyday common English it basically means that the simplest explanation is more likely to be correct. Not always, not even most times, but just more likely.

And just because some think the government was complicit doesn't mean there weren't 19 guys with boxcutters. There very well could have been. There's just more we need to find out about this before we close the case.

We already proved that O.R. is on the side of the conspiracy:

With so many co-incidences the simplest explanation is a conspiracy. Isn't this what Occam's razor dictates?

www.abovetopsecret.com...

Originally posted by Mouth
My question is....

If 9/11 was a conspiracy, what the hell were they trying to cover up? The people on those planes died, along with thousands of other civillians.... what would be the point of the US government doing all of that? someone please explain...

well, I guess when Machiavelli wrote 'The Prince', he summed up the basics of controlling a nation. I did not read it, but we talked extensively on it in one of my history classes.


"Whether it be better to be loved than feared or feared than loved? ......

[talking about the being love or feared, google it if you want, the book is online]

Returning to the question of being feared or loved, I come to the conclusion that, men loving according to their own will and fearing according to that of the prince, a wise prince should establish himself on that which is in his own control and not in that of others; he must endeavour only to avoid hatred, as is noted."



Fear is what controls people, love does not, because when love runs out, you lose control. Fear is what binds people to do as they are told, to fear your leader. But not to hate him. That creates uprising. That is what is verbally happening here and now. That is what could potentially physically happen some day.

The government has to keep it's people in check. They create the illusion that we are at war with the world, or moreso that the World is at war with us, and that we must fight back. Suddenly, there is problems coming from within, and no one can be truested anymore. Then the nation's chains are shortened and you get new laws such as the Patriot Act. Next you will begin even tighter rules, and everyone will begin to have to be added to a database. I am in one unfortunately. Anyone between the age of 16 - 3? (I think) are. for 'military and police use'. Sounds like the draft might be knocking on our front door if you ask me.

Don't forget, money isn't everything. Infact, money is nothing but a channel to power. Nobody would want money if it didn't bring power. That's all that it is about. Power and control. You can trace the money, you can trace the Power, you can trace the Laws, you can trace the People [calling the shots].

but by the time you get there, it will most likely be too late.


*First Post! (I hope I did this right)*

Originally posted by diggs
We already proved that O.R. is on the side of the conspiracy:

While I believe 100% in a 9/11 conspiracy, I disagree that you have proved anything. There are too many unknowns. If you had proved something, people wouldn't still be arguing about this 5 years after the fact.