9-11 conspiracy,I don't think so.

Occam's Razor is how I stay firmly convinced that 19 guys with box cutters pulled this off.

Under Occam's Razor, which is the simplest answer? Scary terrorists keeping the timid rabbits in their seats while they drive planes into buildings, or a massive pre-engineered conspiracy involving literally thousands of participants?

Under Occam's Razor, which is the simplest answer? The buildings were hit by planes loaded with fuel that caused their collapse, or a secret crew in the middle of the night loaded the both towers of the WTC, satellite buildings, and the front of the Pentagon with explosives that were later detonated?

Under Occam's Razor, which is the simplest answer? That thousands of people have not come out and admitted their part in the greatest conspiracy in US history becuase a) no conspiracy took place and 19 arabs with box cutters pulled it off, or b) because the awesome machina of Big Brother has effectively silenced every conspirator, in every city, at every level of government and civilian life, and with absolute 100% efficiency?

Our military on the other side of the planet stacks a few naked Iraqis in a pyramid and a chick holds one with a leash, and the instant someone opened their pie-hole, the entire world knew about it in explicit detail within minutes. The NSA conducts secret surveillance, and under penalty of law, someone blabs to the NY Times about it, and within a day, that was front page news.

With our media's ferocity for submarining the government, if there were a conspiracy and it was an inside job, how in the [Mod Edit: T&C's 1b - Jak] has not one person come forward with verifiable evidence to be 9-11's Deep Throat? No way it's a conspiracy in today's world without us knowing about it. Not unless the MSM is complicit as well, bringing the list of conspirators to maybe 30 or 40 thousand people.


[edit on 30/5/06 by JAK]

My guess is that if there is a conspiracy, only the people within the goverment who needed to know knew, and those who knew had some part in it, so why would they come foreward?

If they are willing to kill 3000+ people, why would they come foreword and spend the rest of their lives in jail, instread of there multimillion dollar estates?




[edit on 30-5-2006 by pstiffy]

How did you come to a conclusion of 30-40,000 people needed to pull off a conspiracy like 9-11?
Why would it be so hard to keep a lid on something if the people involved firmly believed that what they did was the right thing to do?



Pie

My question is....

If 9/11 was a conspiracy, what the hell were they trying to cover up? The people on those planes died, along with thousands of other civillians.... what would be the point of the US government doing all of that? someone please explain...

Occam never considered politics. In the two years leading up to 9/11/2001, a growing number of "conspiracy theorists" were anticipating a major military event.

Originally posted by steve99
Under Occam's Razor, which is the simplest answer? Scary terrorists keeping the timid rabbits in their seats while they drive planes into buildings, or a massive pre-engineered conspiracy involving literally thousands of participants?

There are a multitude of conspiracy theories here on ATS and other websites that involved various levels of government complicity in the 9/11 attacks that include Arab terrorists with box-cutter knives. Also consider that before 9/11, airlines were not hijacked to create weapons.

Under Occam's Razor, which is the simplest answer? The buildings were hit by planes loaded with fuel that caused their collapse, or a secret crew in the middle of the night loaded the both towers of the WTC, satellite buildings, and the front of the Pentagon with explosives that were later detonated?

See above. Few well-researched conspiracy theories involve bombs in any of the buildings (though some that do are compelling). Using "occasm's razor" in reverse, if a government wanted to inspire a terrorist attack on it's own soil, why not simply take advantage of real terrorists?

how in the #### has not one person come forward with verifiable evidence to be 9-11's Deep Throat?

First, please don't seek to circumvent the site's word-sensor feature. We can all engage in civil debate and collaborative discussion without resorted to altered versions of vulgarities.

There are some deep rumors that this is happening to some degree now, and is about to become more interesting. My guess is that in the broad spectrum of what "could be", the reality lands somewhere in-between "unbelievable conspiracy theory" and "the official story". The truth would likely simultaneously disappoint our most veracious conspiracy theorists, and shock the general public. We're seeing a slow-trickle of "deep throat" styled insider information... but be aware that "the powers that be" have learned their hard lesson form the Nixon era and have tighter controls in place.

If history has taught us one thing, it's that those in power conspire to gain and retain more power from those over which they hold sway. Occam would then conclude there is a high probability that these type of generation-defining events have more to it than what is portrayed via traditional news sources.

Agreed S.O., there is an internal revolt taking place slowly, carefully, but they are not going
to do anything without a strong case with hard evidence.

After all, they are trying to take down one of the most wide spread corrupt administrations
in our history.

God do I hate when people like you use Occam's Razor as the sole belief factor to cover their eyes from the truth. Nothing that happened on 9/11 was clear cut, not one single thing. Could it have been lack of preparation on our part? Maybe. Might it have been just a whole bunch of coinsidences that just make it seem like there was a conspiracy? If that's how you want to look at it. But when all is said and done, it's just too unlikely that this was done without some kind of military and/or government involvement. It may be hard to believe but the people who masterminded something like this knew all you had to do was involve a couple key people to designate assignments to unknowing workers and cut them in a slice of the pot to keep them honest, or dishonest depending on how you look at it. After that you just had to get key peices of evidence removed by the workers who are only following orders. Squash a statement here, alter a document there, hold onto the security tapes for 5 years so they could pick and choose the 2 which show the least of what crashed into the Pentagon. There was insider trading going on with some big ass money transfers that were made just prior to the collapse, people got rich and got away clean. The pre-text was there with Northwoods, the desire was there with PNAC, and the key players were put into place less than a year before this happened. Media controlled the "facts" and the focus was shifted towards getting the ones who did this rather then discovering who really was responsible. Which leads us to today, people WANT TO forget what happened, they don't want to recall what happened after being shown the planes going into the towers over and over and over and over..... we're all fish in a barrel here, some of us just choose to look up to see when the gun will fire.

My question is....

If 9/11 was a conspiracy, what the hell were they trying to cover up? The people on those planes died, along with thousands of other civillians.... what would be the point of the US government doing all of that? someone please explain...

Let me start by saying that as far as the 9/11 incidents one could say I am "half a conspiracist theorist". I accept all possibilities.

Lets say 9/11 was a conspiracy.....
Most of the conspiracists beleive that the government was behind the 9/11 attacks and tried everything in their power to COVER UP that they were the real suspects and not the terrorists.

9/11 is the reason why we are in Iraq right now.

George Bush wants us to be in Iraq because its important for him and his Haliburton fanatic Dick Cheney.

The more military consumption and investment, the more greens George earns.

As far as the 9/11 conspiracy please visit the 9/11 conspiracy link in my signature. It's a summary of all the reasons that questions what really happened on 9/11. I'm not saying that 9/11 was a cover up or not; its just a whole load of questions that need to be answered.

Originally posted by Mouth
My question is....

If 9/11 was a conspiracy, what the hell were they trying to cover up? The people on those planes died, along with thousands of other civillians.... what would be the point of the US government doing all of that? someone please explain...

You think we'd be in Afghanistan and Iraq if 9/11 didn't happen? You think the Bush Administration would have been able to get the PATRIOT ACT passed and Homeland Security Dept formed without 9/11? You think the oil and defense industry would be making record profits right now if the attacks didn't happen?

There is an easy way to find out who was behind something, just ask yourself who benefitted most from it. I can't see at all how Osama or "Al Qaida" benefitted. Plus all the evidence points to it being an inside job.

Originally posted by diggs

Originally posted by Mouth
My question is....

If 9/11 was a conspiracy, what the hell were they trying to cover up? The people on those planes died, along with thousands of other civillians.... what would be the point of the US government doing all of that? someone please explain...

You think we'd be in Afghanistan and Iraq if 9/11 didn't happen? You think the Bush Administration would have been able to get the PATRIOT ACT passed and Homeland Security Dept formed without 9/11? You think the oil and defense industry would be making record profits right now if the attacks didn't happen?

There is an easy way to find out who was behind something, just ask yourself who benefitted most from it. I can't see at all how Osama or "Al Qaida" benefitted. Plus all the evidence points to it being an inside job.

Good points. I am a little outdated when it comes to current events. I feel a little more enlightened, thanks

Someone just landed on planet Earth I see.


Enjoy your stay and watch out for evil arabs.

Originally posted by Mouth

You think we'd be in Afghanistan and Iraq if 9/11 didn't happen? You think the Bush Administration would have been able to get the PATRIOT ACT passed and Homeland Security Dept formed without 9/11? You think the oil and defense industry would be making record profits right now if the attacks didn't happen?

There is an easy way to find out who was behind something, just ask yourself who benefitted most from it. I can't see at all how Osama or "Al Qaida" benefitted. Plus all the evidence points to it being an inside job.

Good points. I am a little outdated when it comes to current events. I feel a little more enlightened, thanks

No problem. I also forgot to mention what is probably the biggest motive to perpetrate 9/11, start a never ending war; the "war on terrorism". So just think who benefits during a war and now they have a war that will never end. Brilliant as for as I'm concerned.

Originally posted by ThePieMaN
How did you come to a conclusion of 30-40,000 people needed to pull off a conspiracy like 9-11?
Why would it be so hard to keep a lid on something if the people involved firmly believed that what they did was the right thing to do?



Pie

I couldnt have said it better myself....to imply that it would take thousands of people to pull off this govt job. Did thousands conspire to kill Ceaser? conspiracies only take two or more people to pull off... n this case maybe a few more... but it certainly would not take thousands to pull this off. And if your only arguement is OCCAMS RAZOR, then sir you have no arguement. Politricks is one of those catagories that OCCAMS RAZOR does NOT fit into. And in this case the SIMPLEST answer IS NOT the right one. 19 people with box cutters fooled the most complex intelligence netwrok in the world, yet have not attacked since.. not even little attacks.... And dont give me that we are taking the fight to them statement cause it doesnt wash.

The truth is coming out and the lies are being exposed.. I would post links to show the growth of the movement but there are SOOOOOO many threads here on ATS alone that I could post for a month staright and still not get through the list.

OCCAMS RAZOR....indeed

OK, then, what is the minimum number of people involved?

How many from the following groups?

FBI, CIA, FEMA, NIST, Port Authority, WTC Building Engineers, NYFD, NYPD, United Airlines, American Airlines, Arlington VA fire department, USAR, etc. etc. etc.


Each of those groups would have had to have been complicit in the conspiracy, according to many here.

Originally posted by Mouth
My question is....

If 9/11 was a conspiracy, what the hell were they trying to cover up? The people on those planes died, along with thousands of other civillians.... what would be the point of the US government doing all of that? someone please explain...

Can you seriously be asking this?

What do you mean what would thier point be...its called control. What better way would ANY govt be able to seize control of its people besides fear? How else would something as sinister and disgusting as the UNPATRIOT act come to fruition?
How else could they get an unlimited budget.. unless they had an unending war. Money talks and B.S. walks.

Ive got another little truism for you: If it smells like B.S. and it looks like B.S. call it what it is...B.S.

Maybe if the Govt was more forthcoming about all the unanswered questions, I MIGHT have a diffrernt outlook. But considereing ALL the immense loopholes in thier story and Their over zealousness in regard to destroying our constitution; I dont believe a thing our govt says anymore. How can I when the reigns of oppression are tightening while they preach freedom... can you not see the hypocrisy here? You have to look between the lines... look at who gains... of course theres haliburton.. but theres alos tons of defense contractors that are set for generations now thanks to the never ending WOT.

Somewhere along the way we have forgotten to protect our nation from the INTERNAL enemies and allowed them to destroy the very basic principles for which we are at war. tell me What good is protecting freedom when there isnt any left to protect?

Originally posted by HowardRoark
OK, then, what is the minimum number of people involved?

How many from the following groups?

FBI, CIA, FEMA, NIST, Port Authority, WTC Building Engineers, NYFD, NYPD, United Airlines, American Airlines, Arlington VA fire department, USAR, etc. etc. etc.

Why would all those groups have to be involved, if someone wanted to pull this off they could do it with just a couple special ops units and a few insiders.

Probly just asked someone like G. Gordon Liddy, he would know how to do it without much help.

According to some, NIST, FEMA, and the Port Authority are all in on it, since they have produced reports that show no explosives were used in the WTC collapses.

How could that be so, it they weren’t part of it?

According to some, the FDNY conspired with Silverstein to “pull” WTC 7. How could that be so, If they weren’t in on it?

According to some, flight 77 did not crash into the pentagon. Surely the Arlington VA fire department, and the Urban Search and Rescue team from FEMA would have noticed the strange lack of aircraft debris and passenger body parts in the wreckage, so they must have been in on it also.

And so on and so on. Every one of the conspiracy theories advanced so far requires the willing participation of any number of groups and individuals.

A lot more than just a “few insiders.”

Originally posted by HowardRoark
And so on and so on. Every one of the conspiracy theories advanced so far requires the willing participation of any number of groups and individuals.

A lot more than just a “few insiders.”

So is it impossible that just a few people from each of these org's where conspirators and not the entire group? All these org's are very top down. I don't see any problem of just a few at the top knowing. It's interesting how the fire dept was set in motion towards the Pentagon BEFORE the attack and how all the fire commanders were in the general vicinity as the attack happen. I'm not saying all the commanders knew, but it sure seems like someone had them be at the right place at the right time! Or is that just another of the many many many coincidences of that day?

Originally posted by diggs
I don't see any problem of just a few at the top knowing.

A favorite claim by the pro-conspiracy group. Usually made by people who have no real experience in how large organizations work.

If you honestly think that only one or two people in each of those groups could have possibly pulled this off without every mid-level manager, secretary, field personnel, etc, knowing about it as well, then you ore hopelessly naïve.

Howard, You're right.....it took dozens of accomplices from each of the mentioned groups to pull this off. Look for the retirement packages for these folks to be significant. They've all been good little Fascists.