Organ Donation

Yes, that's exactly it. These people that claim to be divine through their knowledge of things they can't possibly know. It's a big charade, IMO. I don't have any problems with the possibility of there being a god, or even many gods. I do, however, have a major problem with people claiming they know, and showing nothing but ignorance and hearsay as their "guiding light" and education on the matter. If there weren't so many hypocrites, I might consider religion something besides just an evil, twisted mind #. But nothing I've seen has convinced me otherwise.

BTW, I happened upon this discovery by accident. I was at work one day, and I'd just renewed my license when the subject came up. I soon found out many of these religious nuts were not organ donors. So, I asked why. I asked every baptist I knew at one time or another, and they all said almost the same things as these two xians said in this thread. They all used some kind of Archie Bunker logic to justify their selfishness. IMO, selfishness after death has to be the saddest, most severe case I've ever seen. It made me rather angry to know these ugly people. It makes me even more angry that they claim to be "good" xians.

[Edited on 10-21-2003 by Satyr]

Rose from competition and profiteering,the only reason organ donation ever was achieved was because some doctors were simply trying to be the first ones to successfully achieve it, In the pursuit of notariety and fame,and money.
Now if I were to donate my organs,it would be nice to know that the recipient of them would not be forced to live the rest of his/her life with the debt from the supposed "life saving surgery" and that the drugs to prevent rejection wouldn't cost this person tons of money forever...
It's just another market for the most part.
They harvest all sorts of parts whether you consent to it or not anyway,this will come to light someday.
Dead people have no rights.
It's all about money,and greedy people who won't accept the fact that they are going to die anyway,and others who won't accept the reality of loss and sorrow,and then others who profit from these people who think they need to live a few more years,profiting from the fact that other will spend everything they have to live a week or a day,they sign contracts and pay doctors regardless of the outcome of the procedure,kinda like lawyers.
#ing accept it,we're all gonna die.
Make a life saving gift to yourself and accept that,if you are not worried about what happens after you die,why would you be concerned about someone else living from your death?,your donated organs.
Unless deep down inside you think it will make a difference in the next phase...

I'm still very much split on this matter.

It's the very last unselfish act you can do. Let's see....let my body rot in the ground, or save someone's life....possibly even a small child who deserves a healthy life, if at all possible. There isn't even a decision to be made, from my perspective. I'm going to be cremated anyway. Once I leave my body, I don't care what happens to it.
What if you just happened to have a child who needed a heart, and mine was healthy and available? You'd rather let your child die? You'd give one of your own kidneys to save your own child, wouldn't you? What's the difference? This is a gift, from someone who cared enough to realize that it could be very valuable to anyone who would suffer or die otherwise. Debt? That's not even an issue, when it comes to survival. If I held a gun to your head, you'd give me all your money, unless you're suicidal. You're telling me you'd rather be dead than in debt?

debt=death,the word debt actually was based on the word death.
It's a complicated topic,considering what it keeps getting turned into.Like the rich drunk who ruined his liver,who can afford to go to a foreign country and buy one instead of waiting in line for the next available one.
While the poor "financially unviable ones" die.

So what? Does that mean that someone who has lots of money doesn't deserve to live? You don't even know who you might be saving, yet you judge them now?

My Aunt died in a car accident and was an organ donor. She helped someone to live because of that. My Grandmother finds great comfort in knowing that her child helped another's to live. At this point, I am not listed as a donor on my drivers license. I'm not sure I'll change it because of some personal issues that I have with the human body. That may sound selfish, however, it has been an obstacle for many years. Yes, I'm a freak!

I would definitely encourage becoming a donor in the event of your death, that is if you do not have any real problems with it. It may help to relieve not only the donee, but the people that care about you and your memory.

The fact that they changed their statement in 1988 is probably (no doubt) due to the bad publicity they've received from previous non-support. Now they profess support, but the majority of members still believe it's wrong.

changed it? i may be wrong but im almost certain that the resolution made at the 1988 convention was the first statement on the issue by the southern baptists...if im incorrect,i apologize...

as far as your baptist friends who choose not to be donors,i refer you back to the baptist convention resolution which states:

Whereas,organ donation for research or transplantation is a matter
of personal conscience.

your liberal usage of the words "ignorance & ignorant" in reference to the beliefs of the religious,could lead one to believe that you yourself are well educated on the subject. its quite obvious from reading your posts in this thread that you are not...

im not usually one to defend any religion,but i feel it is my duty to "DENY IGNORANCE" when and where i can...

if your not prepared to recieve honest answers to your questions,then dont ask them....

the truth is,the majority of religions in the world (including southern baptist) have no problem at all with organ donation,some even encourage it...

its ok to admit that your assumptions were wrong...i will not hold it against you...as a matter of fact,being able to admit your wrong is a sign of inner strength in my opinion....

[Edited on 21-10-2003 by Creepy]

Originally posted by Satyr
I had the displeasure of meeting many Southern Baptists who would not be organ donors because they think they'll need their bodies in the afterlife.

LMAO, that's #in stupid. All you probably really need is your soul. I'm an organ donor and always will be. Well I'm not an active donor, but I have this little sticker thingy on my license that says if I'm dead, that they can use whatever pieces of me to help someone who needs it. If I need my body in the afterlife, then it looks like I'm #ed because I'm a donor.

One problem with being an organ donor is that the doctors might let you "slip" if they know someone really needs your organs. It might not even be conscious, or it might be tied to racial background. But the moment that sticker goes on your card your death becomes a commodity to doctors. That being said I would probably still put a donor sticker on the card cause I dont care anyway

[Edited on 21-10-2003 by ktprktpr]

Originally posted by Creepy
changed it?

i may be wrong but im almost certain that the resolution made at the 1988 convention was the first statement on the issue by the southern baptists...if im incorrect,i apologize...

Sure. I'll buy that. But, up until that time, I'm sure it was unofficially prohibited. Otherwise, why would so many baptists have a problem with it?

as far as your baptist friends who choose not to be donors,i refer you back to the baptist convention resolution which states:

Whereas,organ donation for research or transplantation is a matter
of personal conscience.

(1) The majority still insist that they need their bodies, for some stupid reason.

your liberal usage of the words "ignorance & ignorant" in reference to the beliefs of the religious,could lead one to believe that you yourself are well educated on the subject. its quite obvious from reading your posts in this thread that you are not...

See (1)

im not usually one to defend any religion,but i feel it is my duty to "DENY IGNORANCE" when and where i can...

You have to be capable of recognizing it, first.

if your not prepared to recieve honest answers to your questions,then dont ask them....

I'm always prepared. I was telling you what I know to be true, and asking if this is also true within other religions. I don't recall implying that it was officially endorsed by the church. It's merely a discovery I'd made while talking to many different baptists. Previously, I had no knowledge of their stance on this issue.

the truth is,the majority of religions in the world (including southern baptist) have no problem at all with organ donation,some even encourage it...

Sure. They just don't volunteer very often.

its ok to admit that your assumptions were wrong...i will not hold it against you...as a matter of fact,being able to admit your wrong is a sign of inner strength in my opinion....

As I've already said, this is no assumption. I've talked to many baptists who won't donate organs. In Alabama, baptists are the dominant religion. I'd say 85% are baptist. You meet them every single day, everywhere you go.

[Edited on 10-22-2003 by Satyr]

Sure. I'll buy that. But, up until that time, I'm sure it was unofficially prohibited. Otherwise, why would so many baptists have a problem with it?
The majority still insist that they need their bodies, for some stupid reason.

you are wrong...show me any proof at all that the majority insist they need their bodys?maybe the majority of the people you know insist they need their bodies,but not the majority of the entire religion...

and again this is from the convention itself>>> Whereas, complete resurrection of the body does not depend on bodily wholeness at death

Previously, I had no knowledge of their stance on this issue.

exactly...

As I've already said, this is no assumption. I've talked to many baptists who won't donate organs. In Alabama, baptists are the dominant religion. I'd say 85% are baptist. You meet them every single day, everywhere you go.

so by talking to "many baptist" in your region you consider yourself to be more aware of their religion than say,the Southern Baptist Convention itself?

you are assuming that the majority of baptist believe ,what your friends who are baptist believe...and your assumptions are wrong....

ive answered the questions from your original post with the facts....you refuse to accept them...

good luck in your quest for knowledge friend....

[Edited on 22-10-2003 by Creepy]

Thanks for your posts creepy....intend to read thru some of that info, although it does not change my position on the subject..and being as Satyr stated the stated love for the subject I just saw his posts as being sort of argumentive and to me its a topic that need not go that route.

I know that if you have an organ donor sticker on your ID paramedics will continue performing CPR longer than they would someone without it with the hope of keeping your organs alive so they can be harvested.

One of the many problems with organ donations jrod.

Originally posted by Creepy
Sure. I'll buy that. But, up until that time, I'm sure it was unofficially prohibited. Otherwise, why would so many baptists have a problem with it?
The majority still insist that they need their bodies, for some stupid reason.

you are wrong...show me any proof at all that the majority insist they need their bodys?maybe the majority of the people you know insist they need their bodies,but not the majority of the entire religion...

and again this is from the convention itself>>> Whereas, complete resurrection of the body does not depend on bodily wholeness at death

Previously, I had no knowledge of their stance on this issue.

exactly...

As I've already said, this is no assumption. I've talked to many baptists who won't donate organs. In Alabama, baptists are the dominant religion. I'd say 85% are baptist. You meet them every single day, everywhere you go.

so by talking to "many baptist" in your region you consider yourself to be more aware of their religion than say,the Southern Baptist Convention itself?

you are assuming that the majority of baptist believe ,what your friends who are baptist believe...and your assumptions are wrong....

ive answered the questions from your original post with the facts....you refuse to accept them...

good luck in your quest for knowledge friend....

[Edited on 22-10-2003 by Creepy]

You obviously prefer to burry your head in the sand because it doesn't present a very good image. I take it you're a Southern Baptist? If you're not, you're going to hell, according to them. And just how is it that you know more than anyone else about this? You attend a Baptist church? Let's get to bottom of this and reveal whatever it is that qualifies you as an expert in this particular religion. I say they're hypocrites, which means that most of their claims are invalid. I've stated that I've personally met many of these people, and they all seem to have the same take on this.
For one, if you don't live in the south, you have no idea what a Southern Baptist is, really. They're not half as liberal as regular baptists. (who are also very closed minded and intolerant) They're worse. They believe in old school religion. 1988 means nothing to them, as far as their beliefs go.
Second, you have no idea what southerners are like, period. They're a different breed....sort of behind in the times. This is why religion is such a popular thing in the south.

In the past there was a concern that organ donation may be in conflict with belief in the Resurrection of the Body. From my observations, most Southern Baptists do not like anyone tampering with their religion, and they stick with the older belief that it is indeed in conflict with their beliefs. You'll find that, the older the baptist, the more likely that this is true. I've also heard them say shocking things like, people should still be stoned to death....as the bible says. I mean, these people practice pew walking, and speaking in tongues. If you study your southern history, the KKK was originally a baptist organization. It probably still is, for the most part.

How many Southern Baptist organ donors have you met? I've met none.

[Edited on 10-22-2003 by Satyr]

You obviously prefer to burry your head in the sand because it doesn't present a very good image.

huh?

I take it you're a Southern Baptist?

another incorrect assumption on your part...

Let's get to bottom of this and reveal whatever it is that qualifies you as an expert in this particular religion.

im far from an expert. a google search....(something you should have done) on -religion "organ donation"- is the extent of my education on the matter...

[Edited on 23-10-2003 by Creepy]

Originally posted by Creepy

I take it you're a Southern Baptist?

another incorrect assumption on your part...

That was the point to asking you this question. I was being facetious.

im far from an expert. a google search....(something you should have done) on -religion "organ donation"- is the extent of my education on the matter...

What I've been telling you is, these people don't condone organ donation! You know what? Forget it. There's no sense in trying to explain this again. I'll only repeat myself once more. Believe what you want. I've talked to many of them. I know what the actual baptist members say. The church is just covering their ass with that neutral statement. They had more bad publicity than they could handle. It's kind of like the Vatican church saying they don't allow priests to rape boys. I'm sure you believe that one too, eh?

I believe that we will need one part of our body after death, and that part carries our consciousness. When that part goes into another body, the body takes a little of our consciousness on and when they reproduce then there's a chance our consciousness will be reborn into a new body.
I don't know what that part is though, maybe the frontal lobe?
I'd like to be eaten by tigers once I die, then there's a good chance I'll be re-birthed as a tiger.
Of course, this is only if you believe in my fairy stories...

[Edited on 23-10-2003 by �any]

Satyr,
Trully the Southern Baptist have their views eschewed as in needing your bodies for the afterlife.

[Edited on 10-23-2003 by Cearbhall]