Internal bombs brought down WTC. Video Tape testimony

Actually, I was going to give you the old aerodynamics argument that a fully loaded F-15 can only travel around the same speed as the planes were travelling, and that tracking the planes was an issue because of our horrifyingly out of date radar system that the ATC uses.

Hmmm...dejavu. We've been over this many times Zaphod. I still think it's a gross misconception that in the last 30 years or so (when highjackings became popular) that we haven't upgraded our radar tracking systems. If that's the case, then I blame American Airlines and United Airlines just as much as I do the terrorists themselves.

It's a misconception? Are you SERIOUS?! Have you LISTENED to the news in the last two years talking about how our radar tracking for ATC is stretched almost to the breaking point? And about how we're having delays, and near misses because a radar station went down and there was very little backup coverage in the area? This is POST 9/11 now. The FAA has JUST come up with a new system that uses sattelites to help with tracking, but it's going to be like TEN YEARS before it's up and running and fully operational.

United and American, and all the other airlines have very little to do with the radars. It's all under the juristicion of the FAA. The FAA refuses to do anything at all until there is a major disaster and they HAVE to.

[edit on 5/23/2006 by Zaphod58]

OK. So, we are post 9/11 and they haven't done anything yet? But we have GPS tracking systems that are as big as a micro chip that you can fit your dog with? Well then, I blame 9/11 ON the FAA.

Have you ever seen the FAA move? There had been reports of problems with cargo doors on 747s not latching properly for YEARS, but they said they only had to be "inspected" and they changed the procedure for checking them before departure. They FINALLY changed the door latches after United flight 811 had the door open in flight departing from Honolulu killing 15 people and almost causing the loss of the plane.

The other side of the coin is cost. Congress won't release the massive funds to replace the radars and overhaul the ATC system.

Originally posted by Zaphod58

The other side of the coin is cost. Congress won't release the massive funds to replace the radars and overhaul the ATC system.

Off topic but, yet we can spend trillions on a war started over a lie? I see what you are saying Zaphod and you definately know more about this stuff than I do. It just gets me that we have been getting highjacked (mostly oversees) for well over 30 years and the planes still had a turn off switch for the transponders? We have plenty of pre 9/11 intellegence that they were planning to highjack planes but no one thought that maybe we should update our radar or tracking systems? How incompetant. I also think that the gov. shouldn't be able to use incompetance as an excuse. They (all involved....CIA, FBI, NSA, NORAD, FAA etc.) should be held accountable for their incompetance.

If I were to design a structure and it fell killing people (pun not intended to relate to WTC) I would be held accountable and couldn't just say...well, incompetance. That's the point I'm trying to make. We as Americans should start holding these organizations and people accountable for their negligence and incompetance.

Originally posted by Griff
Well then, I blame 9/11 ON the FAA.

Whereas I can see where your coming from, that comment is rather ignorant. It's like being pickpocketed, then blaming the company that made your pant pockets too big.

Point taken. But how much incompetance is too much?

The Government is always incompetent, especially with our money.
Back in about 2000/2001 a Royal Air Corps nuclear bunker was upgraded in our town with all the latest mod-cons, comms equipment, etc. A few months later it was up for sale to build housing on! Today the bunker is empty and they are building houses over it... I know it's off topic but another example of Government disorganisation...
I used to work for a firm a few years back building a certain type of defence equipment (without going into details). Most of the equipment we used was ancient, and it seems to take at least a decade from drawing board to implementation. I was talking to a military friend of mine the other day and they only just got the systems I saw being tested 8 years ago in the last couple of years. bearing in mind they had been in the design and development stage for some time before then.
People think that the military have better stuff than us, and they do!
At places like Boscombe Down where they design/test it and on the drawing board that is, in reality stuff doesn't see active service and get implemented until it's an antique.

The point is there is so much red tape that it takes years for even a switch to get changed, as well as people being so arrogant in thinking 'it'll never happen' while counting on people's ignorance as protection more than any technology.
It's funny how some people think it really is as simple as someone saying, "Hey this would be better! Change that switch! or Get them doors sorted out!", in reality it sadly isn't, ironically even normal people have created a world where people are held accountable to such a degree everyone watches their back so much nothing ever gets done.
Do you enjoy your brave New World now? You helped make it

[edit on 23-5-2006 by AgentSmith]

lmao!!
Those sites are exactly what I'm talking about

You seem to have all the answers, maybe you can amswer why the surviving firemen after 911 demanded an investigations on why the towers fell.

Source: www.angelfire.com...

Why so many dead firemen?
The reason so many firemen died in the World Trade Center is that they had no idea that a steel building could collapse from a fire. They ran into the towers just like they ran into other steel buildings on fire. No steel building had ever fallen apart from a fire before, so these firemen had no reason to worry.
Also, there was no sign that the building was about to come down. There were no creaking noises, and no parts of the building falling off.

When the collapse started, the building came down so incredibly fast that none of them had a chance to react. Has anybody ever seen a building collapse so suddenly and so rapidly? (Aside from demolition companies who destroy buildings with explosives.) What kind of fire does that to a steel building?



Firemen are begging for an investigation
Some people point out to me that the investigators would have noticed if these buildings had been blown up with explosives. However, there was no investigation. If you think this is just my opinion, take a look at this page at "Fire Engineering", which is a magazine for firemen. They are demanding a real investigation. Here is one quote from the editor in chief:
"Fire Engineering has good reason to believe that the 'official investigation' blessed by FEMA and run by the American Society of Civil Engineers is a half-baked farce that may already have been commandeered by political forces whose primary interests, to put it mildly, lie far afield of full disclosure."

Also look at this page where some other firemen are pleading with the readers to send e-mail to President Bush and other officials to start an investigation.

Why would firemen be demanding an investigation if there already was one? Because there was no investigation! What kind of nation is America when firemen make accusations like that? What kind of nation is America when firemen have to beg people to send e-mail to President Bush to hold a real investigation? Is this your idea of a government that we can be proud of?

Or, do you suggest we accuse the firemen of being so stupid and/or ignorant that they just cannot understand the official investigation? Do you think these dumb firemen are stirring up trouble over nothing?


[edit on 29-5-2006 by ULTIMA1]

[edit on 29-5-2006 by ULTIMA1]

Here's how the twin towers fell, they both collapsed from the top and their top sections crushed the rest of them below:




And here is how they did it:

How Building Implosions Work



The basic idea of explosive demolition is quite simple: If you remove the support structure of a building at a certain point, the section of the building above that point will fall down on the part of the building below that point. If this upper section is heavy enough, it will collide with the lower part with sufficient force to cause significant damage. The explosives are just the trigger for the demolition. It's gravity that brings the building down.

Of course they had to blow the basements before the collapse to help weaken the entire structures and what better time to do that then right when the planes crashed into them:

William Rodriguez, a 9-11 Survivor
Arriving at 8:30 on the morning of 9-11 he went to the maintenance office located on the first sublevel, one of six sub-basements beneath ground level. There were a total of fourteen people in the office at this time. As he was talking with others, there was a very loud massive explosion which seemed to emanate from between sub-basement B2 and B3.
Just seconds later there was another explosion way above which made the building oscillate momentarily. This, he was later told, was a plane hitting the 90th floor... He heard explosions both before and after the plane hit the tower.
A fellow worker Felipe David came into the office... "He was burned so badly from the basement explosion that flesh was hanging from his face and both arms." William asks: "How could a jetliner hit 90 floors above and burn a man's arms and face to a crisp in the basement below within seconds of impact?"


Photo showing white smoke emitting near the base of the WTC 2.

At about 6:45 he went to the mechanical shop in the second subbasement...
Deep below the tower, Mike Pecoraro was suddenly interrupted in his grinding task by a shake on his shoulder from his co-worker.
His co-worker made the call and reported back to Mike that he was told that the Assistant Chief did not know what happened but that the whole building seemed to shake and there was a loud explosion.
By this time, however, the room they were working in began to fill with a white smoke.
When the two arrived at the C level, they found the machine shop gone.
The two made their way to the parking garage, but found that it, too, was gone. He was convinced a bomb had gone off in the building.

Then after they blew the basements, they blew all the explosives up, down, and around the buildings:

Fire Captain Karin Deshore
Somewhere around the middle of the World Trade Center there was this orange and red flash coming out. Initially it was just one flash. Then this flash just kept popping all the way around the building and that building had started to explode. The popping sound, and with each popping sound it was initially an orange and then red flash came out of the building and then it would just go all around the building on both sides as far as could see.
These popping sounds and the explosions were getting bigger, going both up and down and then all around the building.

Links to witnesses of the WTC explosions:
revereradionetwork.com...
killtown.911review.org...

lol
wow...

1.

Of course they had to blow the basements before the collapse to help weaken the entire structures and what better time to do that then right when the planes crashed into them

Explosions are visable. Especially explosions that are used to bring down 100+ story buildings. How come no one saw this explosion? Also, any explosion like that would have made the building collapse immediately

2. How come, even though there were thousands of people there on the scene and millions watching live on TV that that fire captain was the only one to see these flashes?

3. The crashing of the planes into the building caused a sonic boom. So yeah, people are going to hear more than one "explosion" when the plane hit

Originally posted by AgentSmith
Oh there isn't an ever shrinking circle, nor is it because no-one has an explanation - it's just that when some of you get an idea in your head and demand an explanation, when you hear one which is perfectly reasonable and viable, but more importantly deviates away from your ideas, you're not interested in listening and just throw around your 'disinfo', 'shill', 'agent' insults.


[edit on 22-5-2006 by AgentSmith]

Back at ya buddy.

The explosions did happen. You know what caused them? How about GINORMOUS planes hitting them with an arse load of fuel? There are clips SHOWING explosions that the impact made. The pic you provided shows smoke much lower than where the planes hit, which kind of goes against your theory.

Planes brought down the WTC buildings. Get over it....



Edited sentence

[edit on 1/6/06 by Mouth]

See, I can buy the whole "Planes bringing down the towers theory" if they fell the way they should of. Both planes hitting the towers in different areas at different angles, and one falling before the other, even though it was the last one hit.

If only buildings fell the way they should when weakened at key points. Or wait, if only buildings always had supports give out simulatneously (however weakened) to allow them to fall straight down upon itself.

Haha call the official versions of "9/11" what you want, I call it farce and inconclusive.

Originally posted by LionHeaRT
I've been reading all these theories about 9/11 you guys posted and I really see strong arguments from both sides, but my only question is, on the South Tower, the plane basically clipped the corner of the building, and through all of my work in physics (not much, just physics and AP physics) that leads me to believe the top of the South Tower should have "snapped" so to speak and just fell, leaving the remaining floors, but instead it just kind of fell straight down, that's what led me to initially believe the conspiracies.

A very reasonable and common knowledge evaluation of the impossibility of collapse.

Along the same lines, using my experience with high explosives, concrete and steel, I developed a scenario that explains the twin tower event. My common sense process included what you deduce, but went further to determine that the expanding dome of debris from the tower tops to the ground, was too uniform to be anything but optimally placed and distributed high explosives.

That's a high point I stand to hold in argument for the use of explosives or some other means to bring that building. I stand that with the amount of mass displaced ( the mass falling over the side) should of lightened up the momentum and load falling down upon the rest of the building and the force as well.

The reason to stand is, there should of been floors left standing below, and I'm not talking just 1 or 2.

Originally posted by Mouth
The explosions did happen. You know what caused them? How about GINORMOUS planes hitting them with an arse load of fuel? There are clips SHOWING explosions that the impact made. The pic you provided shows smoke much lower than where the planes hit, which kind of goes against your theory.

Planes brought down the WTC buildings. Get over it....



Edited sentence

[edit on 1/6/06 by Mouth]

I LOVE this type of response. They say this as if we who deny the official story are morons. Notice the irony, yet?

This guy thinks he's so smart, but he fails to note that BUILDING 7 WAS NOT HIT BY AN AIRPLANE, YET IT FEEL JUST LIKE THE OTHER TOWERS!!!

So, you are a LIAR! Planes did NOT bring down ALL THREE BUILDINGS!

The only people I respect in the 9/11 Conspiracy issue are the people A) Non-Dis-Info Agents trying to support the official story with proof that they've found with conclusive evidence and B) Non-Dis-Info Agents trying to support the conspiracy side of the official story with the proof they've found with conclusive evidence.

Both sides have found reasonable arguments and I support that. What I do not support are those being ignorant and naive about it with no understanding basis of what actually happened. You know who you are.

[edit on 6/1/2006 by Masisoar]

Originally posted by ThatsJustWeird
1. Explosions are visable. Especially explosions that are used to bring down 100+ story buildings. How come no one saw this explosion? Also, any explosion like that would have made the building collapse immediately

Probably because anybody and the ground levels where the explosions happened were exploded themselves and didn't live to tell about it.

No it wouldn't, they can explode a building to weaken it without collapsing it. go watch a demo video where you see all types of explosions and the building is still standing until the final explosions happen sometimes minutes later.

2. How come, even though there were thousands of people there on the scene and millions watching live on TV that that fire captain was the only one to see these flashes?

go check the witness reports and maybe go ask her.

3. The crashing of the planes into the building caused a sonic boom. So yeah, people are going to hear more than one "explosion" when the plane hit

lots of witnesses heard multiple explosions right before the towers collapsed.