Is the Dream State Just As Real and Valid as being Awake?

Originally posted by StarLord
Libra,

Hold on a moment my friend, does not the experience and begining realization take place in the Dream state? Did you not then *after* that experience, change your relationship with Spirit?

Well, it really depends on how you look at it. I don't so much look at the dream as changing my karma, as rather symbolically pointing out something that I subconsciously knew to be lacking in my life. Once I addressed what I was lacking in the Waking World, my karma changed.

So perhaps it influenced it, but ultimately the change in karma was due to my actions in the waking world. Had I just left it at dreaming, my life would probably still be in the pits.

Libra,

Funny how the Dream State works like that isn't it? It seems that our Sunconscious has a chance to bring out what we are lacking in our daily life.

Do you think that Spirit had a 'hand' in passing that information?

Originally posted by fiftyfifty
I dont kow much about karma, my name isn't Earl but as soon as someone finds out a way to control what you do in a dream without waking yourself up let me know! there are some places i would like to go.

Dont u just hate that when your dreaming and u suddenly realise that you're dreaming.. as soon as you realise thats it! Bang you're awake

I know the feeling, however with a bit of research on lucid dreaming, its possible for you to mantain the lucid state much longer. Theres been many threads on this forum about lucid dreaming and how to stay lucid for longer. Personally I find that looking at your hands or concentrating on one particular object in your dream helps. When you realise your dreaming, try not to keep thinking along the lines of 'wow im lucid I hope I dont wake up' and try to just brush it to the side and casualy get on with the dream. This is easy said than done I know but with a bit of practice it usualy works.

[edit on 18/5/06 by Clarky]

Originally posted by StarLord
Libra,

Funny how the Dream State works like that isn't it? It seems that our Sunconscious has a chance to bring out what we are lacking in our daily life.

Do you think that Spirit had a 'hand' in passing that information?

Meh... (shrug). No idea. Sometimes I think it did, other times I think it was all me. People often don't give themselves enough credit while simultanously placing too much importance on their own existance. If I were God (and whose to say I'm not? bwahahah) I'd leave the little stuff for people to sort out amongst themselves, and worry about the big picture instead. To assume God chose me to suddenly interfere and send a dream my way to ensure I was spiritual enough, must assume that that particular decision was critical to the big picture. I have no illusions about my place in the universe. If I died today, religious or not, the universe would certainly go on as it always had.

So, no, I don't think any divine presence had a hand in my dream. And if I'm wrong, it means I'm really really important. Hmmm... I either get to be right, or important... not a bad position to be in.

Originally posted by crustas
Zhuang dreamed of changing into a butterfly and even forgetting that he was Zhuang, but when he woke up, he felt he was Zhuang again. Then he wondered which was true.

A quick blast of bug spray in Zhuang's eyes would clarify that right away.

Originally posted by StarLord
Do you think that Spirit had a 'hand' in passing that information?

I've read that the only reason your brain creates dreams is so that our eyes don't undergo the general paralysis we experience during sleep, and with dreams they remain in a focus-ready position in case we have to wake up quickly when attacked. The brain draws on the memories and images in more active neural pathways.

They don't mean anything, or do anything, other than keep the monkey from falling out of the tree.

Endiku,

That's an interesting perspective. I have to disagree however due to the fact that I have had dreams and anywhere from a year to two years later, I experience EXACTLY what was dreamt. I don't think that was part of keeping me awake.

Although, it DID keep me awake for awhile after I had those experiences.

Because of my experiences, the Dream State, for myself, is a very real alternate to our waking state of consciousness. How could my 'brain' make up what I was going to experience if in fact it was not a valid state of consciousness?

Originally posted by fiftyfifty
As soon as someone finds out a way to control what you do in a dream without waking yourself up let me know! there are some places i would like to go.

It's just a matter of practice, like anything else. Some techniques involve looking at your hands. That is, when you recognize that you're dreaming, you look down at your hands to help stabilize yourself.

The key is to set the groundwork while you're awake. So, throughout the day you ask yourself if you're currently dreaming. Gets you in the habit so that you'll be able to ask yourself in your sleep. When you look at your hands, you give yourself the suggestion that you're going to hang on and be in control of your dream. Really kind of "pre-hypnotic" suggestion.

I used to play with this stuff a lot. I quit, though, because I started waking up tired and feeling like I never went to sleep! I was too busy!

Originally posted by StarLord
I have to disagree however due to the fact that I have had dreams and anywhere from a year to two years later, I experience EXACTLY what was dreamt. [...] How could my 'brain' make up what I was going to experience if in fact it was not a valid state of consciousness?

I have a hard enough time remembering what I did two years ago when I was awake, much less when I was asleep. I suspect that maybe you had an imaginative dream about a similar situation, and your brain helped you "remember" the details by making them up.

But who knows? A lot of people think dreams are not limited by time. And maybe there's some quantum physics to back that up. Firing neurons picking up "pre-memories" from the future? Sure, why not?

I've never experienced it, though.

Originally posted by Enkidu
I used to play with this stuff a lot. I quit, though, because I started waking up tired and feeling like I never went to sleep! I was too busy!

I dream a lot and remember most of the dreams i have, and, when i wake up, i just feel the same, it looks like i didn't sleep. It happens several times a week.

Now a question:
Why do i feel emotions from the dream i had that night, in the period between waking up to around noon? Does someone has ever felt the same?


Crustas

Crustas,

Same here. It's like haviving a 'bad' mood follow your all day right? Or even bieing in a 'good' mood for no reason.

How about those mornings when you awake, you can barely remember the dreams, but you know much went on, and you wake up more tired than you were before you went to sleep?

Originally posted by StarLord
Crustas,

Same here. It's like haviving a 'bad' mood follow your all day right? Or even bieing in a 'good' mood for no reason.

How about those mornings when you awake, you can barely remember the dreams, but you know much went on, and you wake up more tired than you were before you went to sleep?

Usually the mood only lasts until 13:00 at the maximum, then it vanishes.

Yes, you are right, sometimes i don't remeber or have just fragments of the dream and i wake up tired.


crustas

and the dream state can actually "repair" the real world.

So having an expereince like that might cause me to look in the direction of trying to find a way to remember what happened during the dream state.

Recently, i had this dream that i will describe:

I was in a big, big, dark, void place, with someone by my side, floating, and when i looked "down", i saw a big black torus (looked like rubber), and in the inner side of the torus there were holes from where souls came out and in, the souls looked like white smoke coming in and out. My "companion" said nothing verbally, but i sensed, the white smoke as souls and the torus, as our universe.


Any opinions?

Crustas

Yea that makes sense. When i was younger i had a nightmare , then wokeup into another nightmare, the woke up into another nightmare, then woke up. The nightmares were all basically the same scenerio each seeming as real as now. Iv also had dream that i had no idea what they were about but they also seemed real and later in life i relived the dream exactly the same. Like the dreams were "Snapshots of the future".

Crustas ,
Did you already think that way about the universe before you dreamed that? cuz you might of justt. hada dream about what you already thought about the world around you.

Originally posted by Art0_Saar1
Did you already think that way about the universe before you dreamed that? cuz you might of justt. hada dream about what you already thought about the world around you.

No i don't have that ideia about the universe geometry, yet, i have multiple ideias about the universe geometry, but none envolve a torus, as far as my conscious knows. My actual believe of the universe is a multi-universe in layers being each layer a universe and i don't have a fixed geometry, for those layers, they could be of anyform.




Crustas

Phiniks,

You may wish to RETHINK that theory regarding Karma. It's simply a matter of observation. While we may be closed to our own affairs being balanced, it's not that hard to watch Karma work in other's lives.

Originally posted by crustas
Recently, i had this dream that i will describe:

I was in a big, big, dark, void place, with someone by my side, floating, and when i looked "down", i saw a big black torus (looked like rubber), and in the inner side of the torus there were holes from where souls came out and in, the souls looked like white smoke coming in and out. My "companion" said nothing verbally, but i sensed, the white smoke as souls and the torus, as our universe.


Any opinions?

Crustas

Crustas,
Do you remember any kind of prevailing sound/s during this dream?