Water as fuel, proof and patents!

When (and if) it happens, it will be news all day, every day, for a long time.

I'm telling you, it will be Year 1 of the HE - Hydrogen Era.

I think you guys are missing the point. This isn't about 'free energy'. And if you spend a little time on the Hydrogen Technologies website you'll find that the inventor, Denny Klein, believes his 'Aquygen' (HHO) isn't the end solution but a transitional technology. He has two prototype vehicles that were retrofitted with his system that provide HHOS on-demand and fed into a standard internal combustion engine through the existing intake system. The vehicles required additional storage batteries and a higher-output alternator to supply the HHOS system with the required power. His early trials yielded 50% increases in gas mileage.

Test Trials of HHOS

For discussion purposes lets assume what Mr. Klein states on his company's website is reasonably accurate. The important aspect is that this technology can increase gas mileage by at least 50% and can be retrofitted to existing internal combustion engines. The US consumes about 20 million barrels of oil every day with about half of that (10M Bbl) being consumed as gasoline. We import about half of our oil from outside the Western Hemisphere and about 20% (4M Bbl) from the Middle East.

This technology could reduce our consumption of gasoline by 50% or 4M Bbl --- 80% of our Middle East imports. This would drive prices of oil down (reduced demand) and mitigate a good deal of the Middle East's power.

I know, I know.... this is still fledgling technology but free energy or not it, and similar technologies, could have a significant stabilising effect on the economy and significantly reduce pollution.

Originally posted by jtma508
I think you guys are missing the point. This isn't about 'free energy'. And if you spend a little time on the Hydrogen Technologies website you'll find that the inventor, Denny Klein, believes his 'Aquygen' (HHO) isn't the end solution but a transitional technology. He has two prototype vehicles that were retrofitted with his system that provide HHOS on-demand and fed into a standard internal combustion engine through the existing intake system. The vehicles required additional storage batteries and a higher-output alternator to supply the HHOS system with the required power. His early trials yielded 50% increases in gas mileage.

Now, you are telling me that the vehicle used on-board batteries to perform the electrolysis of water, which products (H2 and O2) were then used in the engine.

In this case, the car is in fact running on batteries, accruing various inefficiencies of intermediate conversion in between. It can't be more efficient than an electric car or a hybrid

Enough hype.

Why is it that a lot of people on this site are actually very ignorant sometimes?

"Can't get out more than you put in". OK, answer this one:

What happens if you split a single water molecule and then link it to the ocean?
Do we get more energy out than we put in?

--------------

When it comes to creating oxygen and hydrogen from water, there are basically two ways to do it:

1) Electrolysis (not very efficient and yes, you get less out than what you put in)
2) Using resonance to break the bond (very efficient)...think "resonance tanks" here too.

It's all about resonance and looking at the boundaries of "the conservation of energy"!

I have also said this before on this site: where do electrons "mysteriously" go as atomic physicists have pointed out? Could this be another "dimension" that we don't know about? If we can link to this "dimension", could we tap something we are too ignorant to even think about?

Let's be a bit more open on some of these matters. Remember the motto:

"Deny Igorance"

Cheers

JS

Originally posted by jumpspace
Why is it that a lot of people on this site are actually very ignorant sometimes?

Exactly the question I keep asking myself when I read posts like yours!

"Can't get out more than you put in". OK, answer this one:
What happens if you split a single water molecule and then link it to the ocean?
Do we get more energy out than we put in?

What happens when every single molecule in your brain is remotely linked to every single molecule of THC in Detroit? Are you going to get high at a distance?

Sorry, but you pose a nonsensical question. You don't even specify the nature of the "link to the ocean". It's water, so it must have a magic link to the ocean, right?

2) Using resonance to break the bond (very efficient)...think "resonance tanks" here too.

It's all about resonance and looking at the boundaries of "the conservation of energy"!

Or no... You keep saying that resonanse somehow allows one to work around the conservation of energy -- you mentioned the "boundaries" of this law of physics.

[yawn]

I have also said this before on this site: where do electrons "mysteriously" go as atomic physicists have pointed out?

Not sure what mystery you are referring to.

Could this be another "dimension" that we don't know about? If we can link to this "dimension", could we tap something we are too ignorant to even think about?

It could be that the alien overlord Zudu, who floats in molten magma beneath the Hymalayas, is willing to supply the Earth population with Duracell batteries for another 200 years. There is, indeed, such possibility.

Just saying "oh, maybe there is another dimension" is - speculation at best. And no, it does not support the claim that somebody drove a car across the states using nothing but a bucket of water.

Let's be a bit more open on some of these matters. Remember the motto:

"Deny Igorance"

I followed this motto all my life and got a decent education in physics. I cordially invite you to invest at least 10 years into doing same, then you'll be better equipped to talk about resonance and how we can tap into other dimensions. Cheers.


[edit on 25-5-2006 by Aelita]

Jumpspace...
I get you... but we are decades away from tapping the "universal energy source".
that would entail a complete and thorough understanding of quantum physics, and since the best minds cant even agree on a foundation principle such as dark matter, it will be a long time till we can create antimatter engines, or any other quantum trick...

or maybe it is right next door

Regarding the car based gas generators,
these do NOT defy the conservation of energy!
Think about it aelita,

I do think that people are not considering that using a car batteries for production of hydrogen is no more inefficient than it was before, just adding the efficiency of more power-torque from the slight increase in friction to the system by a heavy duty alternator rather than a standard one...

the alternator system presently, is anything but efficent at this point... if it was truly efficient, you would only have enough battery juice to start a car in the morning.
the rest would have been converted to usable energy for the car... that is all this system does...
it converts the energy that would normally be wasted by sitting idle overnight, into usable energy...

We are not trading effiencies here... merely getting better reclaimation of resources...

Should get about the result that he claims... a 50% better effiency, but not a 50% increase...

Okay let's stop this thing with " it will produce less than it inputs"

For the device to work you need electicity and water, okay water in not the problem, many think it's insuficent electicity which is not the case.
A car can produce electicity suficent enough to produce the fuel.

external source
www.1stconnect.com...

When modified, auto alternators can provide variable direct current at 0 to 120 volts for battery charging, hot charging, light arc welding, or for running AC-DC appliances and lights. Another simple modification provides AC power to run some transformer-operated appliances. If you know the secrets of its operation and the modifications possible, the small low-cost alternator can become a versatile power plant.

120 volts are more than enough to run the car, 120 volts can provide power to the device that produces oxigen and hidrogen for the engine.
If an electic motor can run a car for 8 hours or even more than what I ask is , does the device that provides hidrogen and oxigen consume more than an electic motor, the answer would be no.

Most of the comemnts made that it produces less were fueld by oil commpanys, because if the tecnology got out on the market they would go bankrupt.

The alternator can produce suficent power to sustain the device.
I would put 2 alternators with 2 baterys
1 alternator with a separate battery to the wheels so when to wheels spin it provides extra power and no extra resistance is put on the engine, the alternator will spin easy on the wheels puting no resistance to the motion of the wheels because of the mass of the weels in motion, when the car's engine is started the car is usualy in motinon and usualy it's not in motin for a short period of time, stops, red lights, ecetera, and the main alternator of course, I would link them to 1 battery even better 1 biger battery.
This sistem can run independent, no hibrid car is needed, oil can be eliminated forever, and people that run oil companys can go do something else for a living in stead of robing people and making milions.
Who dares chalange me I want to see an explenation , and I will come up with how much power is needed to run the proccessor that spits the oxigen and hidrogen from the water.


[edit on 25-5-2006 by pepsi78]

Originally posted by pepsi78
120 volts are more than enough to run the car, 120 volts can provide power to the device that produces oxigen and hidrogen for the engine.

Pepsi, I implore you to grab a physics book. Voltage alone doesn't move things, current does. Voltage times current equals power (as measured in watts). Please study basic electricity.

Most of the comemnts made that it produces less were fueld by oil commpanys, because if the tecnology got out on the market they would go bankrupt.

If you are saying that conservation of energy was discovered or perpetuated by oil companies, ROTFL is my answer.

Who dares chalange me I want to see an explenation , and I will come up with how much power is needed to run the proccessor that spits the oxigen and hidrogen from the water.

I dare challenge you to improve your terrible spelling and take much better care of your education. Only then you'll be able to take on the evil oil companies.

Originally posted by pepsi78

1 alternator with a separate battery to the wheels so when to wheels spin it provides extra power and no extra resistance is put on the engine, the alternator will spin easy on the wheels puting no resistance to the motion of the wheels because of the mass of the weels in motion, when the car's engine is started the car is usualy in motinon and usualy it's not in motin for a short period of time, stops, red lights, ecetera, and the main alternator of course, I would link them to 1 battery even better 1 biger battery.
This sistem can run independent, no hibrid car is needed, oil can be eliminated forever, and people that run oil companys can go do something else for a living in stead of robing people and making milions.
Who dares chalange me I want to see an explenation , and I will come up with how much power is needed to run the proccessor that spits the oxigen and hidrogen from the water.

Actually, i tried that one... and so have the big three...
the hybrids had the best solution to the problem...
They often include a mass flywheel, or other momentum carrying device to gather the excess energy...
then couple that to a motor that becomes an alternator depending on situation
(motor while speeding up, and an alternator while slowing down)
that was the only way to reduce the friction- by actually utilizing it for a braking device.
If you solution worked, that would be all the energy ever needed, but it takes much more energy to move than to stop... so there is a net loss...
Which is why they coupled that with an engine to get the best solution presently...

they tried the old two wheels with alternators and one wheel with a motor trick long ago...
the extra friction of the alternators prevented it from working... got to have the original energy to overcome the friction... that comes from the batterys/motor or engine...




[edit on 25-5-2006 by LazarusTheLong]

Dear Aelita
Okay
An alternator would produce 120 volts.
which would go to the battery, the battery would provide power to continue the proccess of the device.

1 we are talking about 120 volts constant 120 volts and not 120 volts per hour or something like that.

2 do you know how much power it takes to power the device? before talking

3 fuel based on oxigen and hidrogen has a higher burn level about 40 procent more so less fuel is needed to run the car .

Before you comment I would like you to give out some facts.

experiment: take u'r car start it, turn on the lights turn on the radio to u'r car turn on everything, and then take out the wires that are linked to your battery, the car will run.
Do you even know how much power it takes to proccess the water?
Do you know anything about alternators? permanent magent alternators, conventional alternators.
Have you ever opend one, or tuned one?
I dont see how your coments are relevant.



[edit on 25-5-2006 by pepsi78]

Originally posted by LazarusTheLong

Originally posted by pepsi78

1 alternator with a separate battery to the wheels so when to wheels spin it provides extra power and no extra resistance is put on the engine, the alternator will spin easy on the wheels puting no resistance to the motion of the wheels because of the mass of the weels in motion, when the car's engine is started the car is usualy in motinon and usualy it's not in motin for a short period of time, stops, red lights, ecetera, and the main alternator of course, I would link them to 1 battery even better 1 biger battery.
This sistem can run independent, no hibrid car is needed, oil can be eliminated forever, and people that run oil companys can go do something else for a living in stead of robing people and making milions.
Who dares chalange me I want to see an explenation , and I will come up with how much power is needed to run the proccessor that spits the oxigen and hidrogen from the water.

Actually, i tried that one... and so have the big three...
the hybrids had the best solution to the problem...
They often include a mass flywheel, or other momentum carrying device to gather the excess energy...
then couple that to a motor that becomes an alternator depending on situation
(motor while speeding up, and an alternator while slowing down)
that was the only way to reduce the friction- by actually utilizing it for a braking device.
If you solution worked, that would be all the energy ever needed, but it takes much more energy to move than to stop... so there is a net loss...
Which is why they coupled that with an engine to get the best solution presently...

they tried the old two wheels with alternators and one wheel with a motor trick long ago...
the extra friction of the alternators prevented it from working... got to have the original energy to overcome the friction... that comes from the batterys/motor or engine...




[edit on 25-5-2006 by LazarusTheLong]

I know that the first ones will be hibrid, but I can tell you that in a few years it will be a self suficent teconology, there are new models of alternators that produce far more power than older tecnology , they are based on magnetic teconology with permanent magnets, they will almost spin by them selfs helped with a short amount of power, 1 spin can turn in to the equivalent of 100x , I dont want to get in to this now, it's not the topic, but I can tell you that hidrogen based fuel is the future.


[edit on 25-5-2006 by pepsi78]

Aelita:

>>What happens if you split a single water molecule and then link it to the ocean?
>>Do we get more energy out than we put in?

>Sorry, but you pose a nonsensical question. You don't even specify the nature of the "link to the ocean". It's water, so it must have a magic link to the ocean, right?

When I was talking about "getting more out than you put in", I was talking energy wise. I was talking about nulcear energy by way of splitting atoms. I "assumed" people would realize this is what I was talking about. With your reference to THC, I'm once again "assuming" this may have had an effect on your answer

>You keep saying that resonanse somehow allows one to work around the conservation of energy -- you mentioned the "boundaries" of this law of physics.

I'd suggest you read the following regarding the above and what is being discussed in this thread:

www.cheniere.org...

It's quite enlightening and will give you a new insight.

>Not sure what mystery you are referring to.

Here's something about the disappearing electrons that still baffle atomic physicists:

www.famdijkstra.org...

>It could be that the alien overlord Zudu, who floats in molten magma beneath the Hymalayas, is willing to supply the Earth population with Duracell batteries for another 200 years. There is, indeed, such possibility.

I see the THC is having more of an effect now

>I followed this motto all my life and got a decent education in physics. I cordially invite you to invest at least 10 years into doing same, then you'll be better equipped to talk about resonance and how we can tap into other dimensions. Cheers.

Actually, I've been doing this for 23 years

Cheers

JS

Originally posted by pepsi78
An alternator would produce 120 volts.
which would go to the battery, the battery would provide power to continue the proccess of the device.

1 we are talking about 120 volts constant 120 volts and not 120 volts per hour or something like that.

Do you have any idea of electric current? Why is the car battery so damn heavy?

Please try the following: buy 8 batteries of the AAA size. Connect them in series. Measure the resulting voltage. It will be approximately 12 volts. Replace you car battery with this little pack and try to start the car. Report the results here.

experiment: take u'r car start it, turn on the lights turn on the radio to u'r car turn on everything, and then take out the wires that are linked to your battery, the car will run.

Well, duh, the car has a generator that runs off the engine. This is sooo deep.

Do you have any idea of electric current? Why is the car battery so damn heavy?

Please try the following: buy 8 batteries of the AAA size. Connect them in series. Measure the resulting voltage. It will be approximately 12 volts. Replace you car battery with this little pack and try to start the car. Report the results here.

Okay I dont get it wow what a scientific aproch.
1 an alternator will produce far more than 12 volts
2 a car will start with out a battery?amesing huh, if you push it hard enough it does not even need a battery.
3 It's not even about the voltage it's self when you start a car, it's about the amps, the battery may indicate high voltage but if you dont have the the right ampers on it, it will not start, that may indicate that the battery it's self is on it's last 12 volt's.
So if those little batteries would have high ampers in them it would start.

you think for some reason that the device in cause has to consume alot in order to function, it's not, that indicates that you dont know how much it consumes.
So here I'll tell you, it has to have a constant of 10 to 20 ampers, no extra battery needed.
That is right , the device for a car needs around 20 ameprs to kick in.

Originally posted by jumpspace
I was talking about "getting more out than you put in", I was talking energy wise. I was talking about nulcear energy by way of splitting atoms.

What does nuclear reaction have to do with electrolysis? Was there any claim that the "devices" discussed here harness nuclear energy? Huh?

I'd suggest you read the following regarding the above and what is being discussed in this thread:

www.cheniere.org...

It's quite enlightening and will give you a new insight.

Not it's not. That Bearden stuff is not new and is a lot of mumbo jumbo aimed at convincing the reader that with an appropriate correction to Maxwell's equations, it's possible to tap the free energy. Nahh...

Here's something about the disappearing electrons that still baffle atomic physicists:

www.famdijkstra.org...

This is a master's thesis on the qunatum Hall effect. So what.

Originally posted by pepsi78
3 It's not even about the voltage it's self when you start a car, it's about the amps, the battery may indicate high voltage but if you dont have the the right ampers on it, it will not start

Fine, I got you to say that yourself. Now please revisit your own statement that 120V is enought to run a car.

Let's do a simple calculation:
One horsepower is approx 740 watts (I may be off here, but let's assume it's roughly about a kilowatt, 1000 watt.).

Your 120 HP engine (a modest one, I should say) is approximately a 120 kW power plant, at maximum power (pedal to the metal).

Divide 120,000 watts by 120 Volts and you'll see that your alternator has to give off 1000 Amp current to produce enough energy for the car to keep driving. Assuming you are driving at quarter capacity, it's still 250 Amps.

But you see, even that is immaterial. You are claiming that the energy is not conserved, and the alternator (driven by the engine) produces more power than was given to it.




[edit on 25-5-2006 by Aelita]

Aelita so you still didint explain why it wont work. the device needs constant 20 amps to produce fuel, a car battery usualy has 60 amps or higher, the alternator can produce enough amps to sustain the proccess, so why wont it work.
You just copied what other people said , you saw it on some forum or some where
and you just went and said "it will produce less than it inputs" this theory has been debunked and it was started by oil coroprations so they can stick hibrid cars on the market so the oil industry will survive.
your calculations are incorrect, it takes less hidrogen fuel to run a car, because of the burning levels, you still dont get it, if the alternator produces unlimited amps why wory about how much energy it consumes?
it's not like u'r stranded on the battery.
to pruduce suficent fuel all you need is 20 amps that is it.
Dude I'm going to uload the pdf manual to convince you.






[edit on 25-5-2006 by pepsi78]

[edit on 25-5-2006 by pepsi78]

Originally posted by pepsi78
Aelita so you still didint explain why it wont work. the device needs constant 20 amps to produce fuel,

Ok, if you didn't follow the energy claculation above, let me do that once more here:

120V from the laternator times 20 amps is equal to 2400 Watts, which is 3 horsepower. This is about 2 times less than your lawn mower. Again, the alternator gives you 2400 watts of energy, be it in mechanical form, in the form of hydrogen and oxygen mix or otherwise.

So assuming you alternator is running, you have 3 HP to play with. You won't drive very fast, but assuming you do, these 3 HP are gone on friction and airdrag etc.. Wait, where is the extra 3HP that are need to just keep the alternator running? You are short...

You just copied what other people said , you saw it on some forum or some where and you just went and said "it will produce less than it inputs"

Dude, I didn't get my knowledge of physics on forums. It's a long process and you have to do homework for many, many years. But conservation of energy is real simple to understand: you don't get free energy no matter what kind of alternator you connected to what battery. Period.


[edit on 25-5-2006 by Aelita]

Aelita:

You have absolutely no idea what you're talking about.

I'd suggest you go back to primary school and learn how to read before making stupid comments such as huh? and nahh?...LOL, what a JOKE!

I see you didn't even make any reference to my 23 years experience in the field we are talking about on this thread..good to see you ignore some comments and bring up other with a totally twisted slant to the original comment. I'd suggest seeing a doctor as your mind seems to have a problem understanding common logic. People with your traits usually suffer from ADHD.

Also, don't bother replying - you are now the second person to be on my filter list in 2 years due to your total ignorance and due to the fact that you haven't the intelligence to respond with any base logic. I'm a very tolerant and perceptual person and I know exactly what type of person you are by reading your various responses.

Have a good life.

JS

Fine, I got you to say that yourself. Now please revisit your own statement that 120V is enought to run a car.

Let's do a simple calculation:
One horsepower is approx 740 watts (I may be off here, but let's assume it's roughly about a kilowatt, 1000 watt.).

Note , that would be the case if you run the car on electic power direct.
After your calculations a car would not even run on conventional fuel, and it would reqire a nuclear reactor to power it.
The car does not run on electicity, it runs on fuel, and the trick is that the device that does it all dont require much power to produce fuel.
here is the entire manual, how much power it needs , how is it build.
mynewresidents.com... Car Engine Plans Manual .pdf

120V from the laternator times 20 amps is equal to 2400 Watts, which is 3 horsepower. This is about 2 times less than your lawn mower. Again, the alternator gives you 2400 watts of energy, be it in mechanical form, in the form of hydrogen and oxygen mix or otherwise

Okay for what for fuel or for electricity?
You talking on running the car on electicity, the car is ran on fuel.
20 amps will produce fuel, but you still insist on running the engine on 20 amps, you dont run the car on amps you run it on fuel, fuel can be produced from water, why do you insist puting those 20 amps in the engine direct? why not multiply them bu making fuel?cause the car does not run on electicity it runs on fuel and 20 constant amps will generate regular flow of fuel, read the manual.


[edit on 25-5-2006 by pepsi78]