Whitehall Calls Existence of Guantanamo "Unacceptable"

Originally posted by FlyersFan

Originally posted by Code_Burger
I really feel for those poor bastards

*sarcasm* Oh yes, the poor fellows. Never harmed anyone. They
are just there because Americans loooooooove to waste
money and time on incarceration of innocent people.

hrw.org...

who are locked away in secret torture camps,

No torture at GITMO. And it's not a secret that it's there.

Now you are going back and editing posts, and taking my quotes out of context. I wasn't even talking to you there, I was replying to Dock6 about secret torture locations worldwide. I wasn't talking about Guantanamo. Since Guantanamo Bay has been on the news for years, I hardly classify Guantanamo as a secret camp.

Originally posted by FlyersFan These are your words in response to a person discussing
GITMO, aren't they??

Originally posted by Code_Burger
I really feel for those poor bastards who are locked away in secret
torture camps, with no hope of trial, or anyone finding out who and
where they are. Who knows if any of them are even still alive.

No! I discussed Guantanamo in the same post, but at the end there I was reffering to the secret torture locations rightly mentioned by Dock6. He posted the second post in this thread, which I quoted him on. Go back and read it.

FlyersFan:

'hereye hereye ... we demand the closure of GITMO because
it's the 'in' thing to do. We are anti-american and proud of it and we don't care that the facts show NO TORTURE at GITMO.We just hate America and want to whine about it when ever we can. Cuz' we are jeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeealous. waaaaaaaaaa.

It’s refreshing to get a very simplistic perspective on things, thanks.

Then you must be glad that Saddam is no longer mass murdering
Iraqis by the tens of thousands.

Yeah, now it’s America! 100,000 and counting! You kill better than he did!

Since you are revolted by repugnant disregard for human rights I'm
sure you are revolted by the thousands of Iraqis that the terrorist
insurgents have murdered in the past year.

As the occupying power, the US is responsible for the security of the Iraqi people. Thus also responsible for those deaths, since they can’t prevent it with more than a hundred thousand troops.

Or were you speaking about in 2008 when Hillary becomes president?
You think she'll establish gulags here in America to put people who
don't bow to the radical left wing philosophy?

Wow, foam at the mouth much? Gitmo is illegal, un-American, and barbaric. Maybe you identify with these, and that’s why you defend it?

it's your choice, all i can see is that your regime doesn't mind killing people, obviously, and that all actors in the current game were once a western 'asset' if you look back far enough, even Iran, for crying out loud.

selective perception at its finest, blunders may happen, but this has got to be intentional

Not to mention my pet peeve, the kidnapping / rape and 'disappearing' happening wherever western strategy is being 'executed', f-ex. in South America, the mexican border, and you guessed right, Iraq . Afghanistan is the same, just for the record.

enjoy the ride to hell, but don't blame us for being subversive or 'unpatriotic' when it's your turn to bend down for the empire and you suddenly realise that it has got to be everybody else's fault. as usual

Originally posted by FlyersFan
If you support the terrorists then you are just as bad as them.
(just showing you your words back. I'm not calling everyone terrorists)
BTW - no torture is going on at GITMO.

Let's recall who is the Numero Uno Terrorist Supporter State.

Is it Iran? - Nope.

Is it Iraq? - Nope.

Is it Saudi Arabia? - Nope.

Is it Afganistan? - Nope.

Is it Russia? - Nope.

Is it France? - Nope.

Is it Germany? - Nope.

Can you see where this is leading to?

Remember when goverment of USA sponsored TERRORIST Activities in Nicaragua?

Want me to name some more of Terrorist supporting activities done by the CIA in the Name of American goverment and the American People?

You want the List?

Just showing Your words Back.

Terrorism is NOT the weapon of the WEAK - but is very Much the Weapon of the STRONG.

And if America is the STRONGEST Nation of them all - well, you can imagine where that is leading.

BTW: if you think NO Torture is going on in Gitmo's - how do you know that?

Where you there?

Have your relatives been there?

Has anybody you know been there?

Originally posted by FlyersFan
Oh, so you are revolted by repugnant disregard for human rights eh?

Then you must be glad that Saddam is no longer mass murdering
Iraqis by the tens of thousands. You must be glad that he is no longer
using WMD on the Kurds and killing them off by the thousands. You
must be glad that Saddam is no longer using rape rooms for mass
rape of Iraqi women and girls (equal rights eh??).

Yes I am glad. Now if only we could stop the US leaders from doing the same!

Qoute from Louise Arbour, the UN Commisioner for Human Rights.
Official investigations into abuses at Abu Gharib, Bagram Airbase and Guantanamo Bay suggest a policy of systamatic torture on the part of the US government that extends all the way up the chain of command.

Read more here...Americans torture innocent people

I have a question (and it's an honest one), have the inmates at Guantanamo been entered into a formal trial process for their alledged crimes?

If they have and they're being treated fairly then i have no problem with the camp.
However if they haven't yet been entered into a formal trial process then i question it. No one should be imprisoned without a fair and formal trial.

Iit is not just Whitehall that has criticized the US over Guantanamo, the head of the Iinternational Red Cross has also been critizing the US for refusing to let them visit secret detainees held in "THE WAR ON TERROR"

quote: Jakob Kellenberger said their names should not be concealed "no matter how legitimate the grounds for detention".

The US has been accused of operating secret prisons and transporting some detainees to states which use torture.

Washington responded to the Red Cross by saying it was not obliged to allow access to all of its detainees.

"There is a certain subcategory of individuals who have forfeited their protections under the Geneva Conventions and there is not an obligation to allow access to those individuals," said state department spokesman Sean McCormack.

The US has admitted to some use of third countries but says prisoners are never transferred for the purpose of torture.

Both the United States and a European Parliament committee have been trying to probe some of the claims.

'No right to hide'

The International Committee of the Red Cross (ICRC) is the only independent organisation which has been granted access to suspects in US jails in Iraq, Afghanistan and Guantanamo Bay in Cuba.

link to rest of this report is below:

news.bbc.co.uk...

Originally posted by FlyersFan
US soldiers providing culturally and religiously appropriate meals,
the best that most of the inmates ever had, isn't torture.

Yeah. FORCE-FEEDING them culturally and religiously appropriate meals.
Cause they're on hunger strike.
Because Gitmo is SUCH a palace, and they're treated so well, that they WANT TO DIE.

No, FF, you just bury your head in the sand, keep repeating "there's no torture at Gitmo" and you will convince yourself. It won't work for those of us who like to build a picture from a number of sources rather than just what your govenrment tells you.

How some of you can consider the request to close down this torture chamber as being anti-american or un-american is beyond me. As Americans we have never ever been known for any such things up until this administration. I hardly consider such a thing American in the least bit. Just the idea of being held without a swift and public trial,by an impartial jury and the right to representation, should have you breathing fire!
This is just a prelude to making the laws that will do the same thing to us in the future. Support these kinds of actions and you mock the very people who established this country. Its hardly the American way.

Originally posted by ThePieMaN
How some of you can consider the request to close down this torture chamber as being anti-american or un-american is beyond me. As Americans we have never ever been known for any such things up until this administration.

Sorry to disagree, but torture and disappearances and the running of death squads was known (though not in the mainstream) to be a consistent feature of the 'counter-insurgency' programmes taught at the School of The Americas at Fort Benning, Ga. That's why they changed its name to WHISC. SOA graduates ran the torture programmes throughout Central and South America. It was sufficiently well-known that performance artist and actor Eric Bogosian included a scene of a CIA instructor lecturing on torture in his piece "Fun House" which he wrote and performed in the early eighties.

Why are you US guys beating yourself up over Gitmo? loads of bad guys are off the street/desert/cave and IMO that's no bad thing.

OK here's an idea: you will close Gitmo and let everyone go home if every Muslim leader around the world promises no more terrorist acts.

Seems fair to me, so come on Osama, how about it? Do we have a deal?

Originally posted by rich23

Sorry to disagree, but torture and disappearances and the running of death squads was known (though not in the mainstream) to be a consistent feature of the 'counter-insurgency' programmes taught at the School of The Americas at Fort Benning, Ga.

Hi Rich
I dunno maybe Im naive, but growing up during Vietnam era and hearing the history of WWII with Japan and then Korea and hearing of all the torture and displeasure with it, I never would have thought that we could ever stoop so low as to be like "them". Seeing images of those poor emaciated POW's when they first came home after the end of Vietnam it just never occurred to me we could do such things. Maybe it has occurred , and maybe its not been as open in the past or as often, but it seems to be right now in the present as I've never seen it before. Its just disturbing.