Whitehall Calls Existence of Guantanamo "Unacceptable"

Originally posted by Souljah

Ah - Yes, USA has the BEST, right?

I never said that, I am just questioning this new "scientific method".


AND I have not tortured anyone....

Thats like me blaming you for the ethnic cleansings your neighbors do.

Originally posted by Mcphisto
we Brits show you how to fight battles you cant fight on your own.

That would be rather comical if it weren't so sad.

Yes, there are British soldiers fighting against the terrorists. They should
be HONORED for what they are doing. Instead ... they are unappreciated.
However, America has no need of the British to SHOW US how to fight.
We know how to do that just fine thank you very much. (We bailed YOUR
butts out of trouble in WWII.)

*sigh*

This author understands the situation. The British 'Lord'
doesn't. GITMO is needed. Their are very bad terrorists
being held there. That's just the fact of the matter.

www.washingtonpost.com...

Gitmo Grovel: Enough Already
By Charles Krauthammer
June 3, 2005

The self-flagellation over reports of abuse at Guantanamo Bay has turned
into a full-scale panic. There are calls for the United States, with all this
worldwide publicity, to simply shut the place down.

A terrible idea. One does not run and hide simply because allegations
have been made. If the charges are unverified, as they overwhelmingly
are in this case, then they need to be challenged. The United States ought
to say what it has and has not done, and not simply surrender to rumor.

Moreover, shutting down Guantanamo will solve nothing. We will capture more
terrorists, and we will have to interrogate them, if not at Guantanamo then
somewhere else. There will then be reports from that somewhere else that will
precisely mirror the charges coming out of Guantanamo. What will we do then?
Keep shutting down one detention center after another?

The self-flagellation has gone far enough. We know that al Qaeda operatives are
trained to charge torture when they are in detention, and specifically to charge
abuse of the Koran to inflame fellow prisoners on the inside and potential
sympathizers on the outside.

[edit on 5/11/2006 by FlyersFan]

Originally posted by FlyersFan

Originally posted by rich23
we're anti-Gitmo,

... because it's the 'in' thing to be and you haven't got a clue
as to how important it is for the war on terror.

Absolutely. I just follow fashions. The idea that I might have the ability to be independently revolted by the repugnant disregard for human rights in Guantanamo Bay and Abu Ghraib is just too wacky to contemplate. (That's sarcasm, btw)

if you really were anti-torture then you'd be anti-terrorist.

This whole post is just one long "you're either with us or against us" piece of nonsense. The world is just too complex for you to grasp, Flyers Fan, and I shall not be debating with you for long, as it's just not worth it.

if you really were pro-human rights you'd be anti-terrorist. Those terrorists
really know how to make sure that the female half of the population have equal rights, don't they??

Well, before the invasion, women did have equal rights, or a much closer approximation thereto. If the US hadn't invaded, they'd still have them.

we're anti-American.

THAT explains whyyou side with throat slashing terrorists who want to drag the world back to the year 700.

Throat slashing... presumably you mean Nick Berg. Well there's a real possibility that he wasn't killed by terrorists, but by the CIA.

And it's just more of the "if you're not with us you're against us"/"Saddam is your boyfriend" rubbish. Computers think in binary. If you can't do any better, than that brings you down to their level.

Iraqi civilians killed this year by Islamic Terrorists - 2,261
Iraqi civilians killed collaterally by Americans - 33

Source for this statistic, please?

Originally posted by FlyersFan

Originally posted by Mcphisto
we Brits show you how to fight battles you cant fight on your own.

That would be rather comical if it weren't so sad.

Yes, there are British soldiers fighting against the terrorists. They should
be HONORED for what they are doing. Instead ... they are unappreciated.
However, America has no need of the British to SHOW US how to fight.
We know how to do that just fine thank you very much. (We bailed YOUR
butts out of trouble in WWII.)

*sigh*

You also killed more British troops in Desert storm 1 than the Iraqi's. Work that out! How can this brilliant fighting machine kill more of their own than the enemy? Muppets.

*bigger sigh*

Originally posted by XphilesPhan
I never said that, I am just questioning this new "scientific method".

Well it was an Psychological Experiment with actuall military intelligence officers involved. It was an experiement to show the people how fact people do crack and in what kind of enviroment the prisoners of Gitmo's are being held. It was an experiment which showed what kind of Abuse techniqes are used - well a small portion of them. And you can clearly see ordinary Men crumble to dust in front of your eyes. And the pressure that was involved was very minimal compared to the real deal which goes on.

AND I have not tortured anyone....

No you haven't - others have done that in Your name and in the name of the American people. Sadly Gitmo's are throwing a Bad light on All of the America, since your current goverment represents the American people.

So if you support the Torture - then you are just as bad as your govemerment.

And the World is Watching...

Thats like me blaming you for the ethnic cleansings your neighbors do.

Not entirely true.

My neighbours are my neighbours.

They are not doing things in MY name - but in their name.

On the other hand, your goverment is doing what they are doing, in YOUR name...

[edit on 11/5/06 by Souljah]

Originally posted by FlyersFan
This author understands the situation. The British 'Lord'
doesn't. GITMO is needed. Their are very bad terrorists
being held there. That's just the fact of the matter.

Gitmo Grovel: Enough Already
By Charles Krauthammer
June 3, 2005

....

So you quote some windbag apologist for torture as part of your argument? He offers no facts, just a succession of highly debatable assertions. This is not an argument. In an argument, you marshal facts and try to put them within a consistent framework. This is nothing of the kind. I looked for facts in your post, but there were none.

youknow what, Tthe UK Should withdraw the troops from Iraq and Tell America to Fight it them selfs see how far yall get... LMAO this thread kills me ........ (SO MUCH FOR THE TWO COUNTRIES BEING ALLIES)

Originally posted by rich23
So you quote some windbag apologist for torture as part of your argument?

The only windbag quoted was that british 'lord'.
And frankly, YOU didn't show any proof that there is torture at GITMO.
That's because there isn't any.

And here's a clue ... US soldiers handling the Quran, which the
American Government provided, isn't torture. US soldiers providing
medical care, the best that most of the inmates ever had, isn't torture.
US soldiers providing culturally and religiously appropriate meals,
the best that most of the inmates ever had, isn't torture.

'hereye hereye ... we demand the closure of GITMO because
it's the 'in' thing to do. We are anti-american and proud of
it and we don't care that the facts show NO TORTURE at GITMO.
We just hate America and want to whine about it when ever we can.
Cuz' we are jeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeealous. waaaaaaaaaa.

Originally posted by rich23
The idea that I might have the ability to be independently
revolted by the repugnant disregard for human rights ...

Oh, so you are revolted by repugnant disregard for human rights eh?

Then you must be glad that Saddam is no longer mass murdering
Iraqis by the tens of thousands. You must be glad that he is no longer
using WMD on the Kurds and killing them off by the thousands. You
must be glad that Saddam is no longer using rape rooms for mass
rape of Iraqi women and girls (equal rights eh??). You must be
glad that Saddam and his sons are no longer torturing Iraqi athletes
and Olympians who don't do as well as Saddam demanded. You
must be glad that the billions that Saddam was stealing from his
people and paying off the United Nations Security Council with are
no longer being stolen from the Iraqi people and that they now
have their resources and money going to them. You must be glad
that Saddam isn't able to threaten war and takeover of his neighbors
like he did with Kuwait and that he wanted to do with Iran and Saudi
Arabia.... wars that did kill hundreds of thousands, maimed
even more, and threatened to kill hundreds of thousands of more
if he remained in power.

Since you are revolted by repugnant disregard for human rights I'm
sure you are revolted by the thousands of Iraqis that the terrorist
insurgents have murdered in the past year. School children, police
officers, civilians ... all murdered by thugs which the Coalition are
trying to stop but that Western anti-war protesters enable with their
rhetoric.

Throat slashing... presumably you mean Nick Berg.

Throat slashing ... as in what the 9/11 terrorists did to the pilots and
stewardesses ... what the terrorists do to kidnapped journalists and
aid workers ...

Originally posted by Souljah
So if you support the Torture - then you are just as bad as your govemerment.

If you support the terrorists then you are just as bad as them.
(just showing you your words back. I'm not calling everyone terrorists)
BTW - no torture is going on at GITMO.

www.littlegreenfootballs.com...
www.washtimes.com...
www.frontpagemag.com...
www.washingtonpost.com...



[edit on 5/12/2006 by FlyersFan]

Originally posted by FlyersFan

Originally posted by Souljah
So if you support the Torture - then you are just as bad as your govemerment.

If you support the terrorists then you are just as bad as them.

Then you are just as bad as a Terrorist. You are just as bad as a Terrorist for funding and supporting the IRA (I am fully aware of my Governments involvement in all of this, too, so don't get me started). You are just as bad as a Terrorist for funding, training, and bringing into existence 'Al Qaeda' in the 1980's. What about the blatant Bush and Bin laden business ties? I don't hear you mentioning any of this, yet you sure are quick to call people Terrorist affiliates over in Iran, or Palestine, when they are obviously just as innocent as you. Your hypocrisy is off the scale, I suggest you go and take a lie down.

Originally posted by Dock6

They publicised Guantanamo and its alleged atrocities/inhumane treatment of prisoners, in order to add another element to their Terror-brew: to silence protest generally: to convince we sheepies that there was indeed a legitimate War on Terra underway.

It's rare that governments openly advertise their horror-camps. But of course, they wanted us to feel an icy chill up our spines, via Guantanamo, and they wanted to justify their invasion of Iraq. So from the outset, Guantanamo has always been on Page One.

Now, Guantanamo has served its purpose as far as governments are concerned.

All along, of course, the REAL terror camps have been operating in secret while the sheepies' attention has been focused on Guantanamo and its lengthy, much publicised trials.

You'll notice that neither Goldsmith or anyone else were jumping around, publicly acknowledging the transport, torture and murders of far GREATER numbers of prisoners whose identities have NEVER been made public. And of course, Goldsmith isn't calling for a halt to the secret torture of prisoners who were/are ferried to secret locations in Britain and elsewhere. As usual, the sheepies' attention has been kept on Guantanamo aka Red Herring --- while the atrocities continue elsewhere.

Guantanamo is no longer newsworthy or advantageous to the ruling-elite: it's a burnt-out story: it's served its purpose. So 'they' have decided NOW -- via the prostitute media -- to use it to their own advantage and to make cheap heroes of themselves before the voting public. Wow -- how heroic, how upstanding of Goldsmith -- to publicly and with fanfare, call for Guantanamo's closure.

Did he do so several years ago? Of course not. He hadn't been given PERMISSION to do so: hadn't been INSTRUCTED by his masters to do so. Only NOW ... for political advantage .... does he thrash a dead horse and pretend to be The Voice of Conscience. How despicable.

Too little, too late, Goldsmith & Co.

Great post, I just wanted to say I couldn't agree more. If time had allowed I would have included more of my opinion the initial post, but I had just heard Goldsmith on the news, and wanted to beat the other posters in getting it up here. Even though this is obviously some kind of ploy, calling for just Guantanamo's closure, after all this time, I think it's still a good and necessary thing for it to be closed anyway. I really feel for those poor bastards who are locked away in secret torture camps, with no hope of trial, or anyone finding out who and where they are.
Who knows if any of them are even still alive.

Originally posted by Code_Burger
Your hypocrisy is off the scale

glass houses ...

I suggest you go and take a lie down.

And I suggest you relax and have a good meal.
Good nutrition is essential for a brain to function properly.
The meals served at GITMO are very good for you
and are culturally and religiously appropriate.
Dig in and share in what those 'poor tortured souls'
are subjected to. Poor things.
www.gitmocookbook.com...



[edit on 5/12/2006 by FlyersFan]

Originally posted by Code_Burger
I really feel for those poor bastards

*sarcasm* Oh yes, the poor fellows. Never harmed anyone. They
are just there because Americans loooooooove to waste
money and time on incarceration of innocent people.
hrw.org...

who are locked away in secret torture camps,

No torture at GITMO. And it's not a secret that it's there.

Who knows if any of them are even still alive.

Well ... we know for sure that all the innocent people the
inmate criminals killed over in Iraq and Afghanistan are DEAD.

Originally posted by FlyersFan

Originally posted by Code_Burger
Your hypocrisy is off the scale

glass houses ...

Don't even try that. How am I a Hypocrit? I am fully aware of my governments involvement in this horrific wrongdoing. The difference is, I renounce it and do not support it in any way. There is a big difference. Do you see me running round calling everyone Terrorists?

Originally posted by FlyersFan

I suggest you go and take a lie down.

And I suggest you relax and have a good meal.
Good nutrition is essential for a brain to function properly.
The meals served at GITMO are very good for you
and are culturally and religiously appropriate.
Dig in and share in what those 'poor tortured souls'
are subjected to. Poor things.

www.gitmocookbook.com...



[edit on 5/12/2006 by FlyersFan]

See how far your bastard wit will get you when you're in a God damned Gulag, you Maniac.



[edit on 12-5-2006 by Code_Burger]

Originally posted by Code_Burger
See how far your bastard wit will get you when you're in a
God damned Gulag, you Maniac.

Gulag eh? Do you even know what one is? GITMO doesn't
fit the profile. You have yet to show that it is a torture and
death camp and that it's at a secret location. Good luck with that.

fredericksburg.com...

Originally posted by FlyersFan
Gulag eh? Do you even know what one is? GITMO doesn't
fit the profile. You have yet to show that it is a torture and
death camp and that it's at a secret location. Good luck with that.

You have totally misunderstood what I meant. I wasn't calling Guantanamo Bay a Gulag, and I certainly didn't call it a secret death camp location.

Originally posted by Code_Burger
Do you see me running round calling everyone Terrorists?

Yep. Kinda looks like it from here. It absolutely looks like
you are calling every American a terrorist. At the very least
every American military member. If you aren't then it's my
mistake ... but it is certainly what it look like.

And BTW .. I didn't call everyone a terrorist. That isn't something
I'd do. IF you are referring to my previous post on page 2 of this
thread, it was in response to SOULJAH calling everyone who
supports the american government co-conspirators with them.
I was playing his words back at HIM.

Originally posted by Code_Burger
I wasn't calling Guantanamo Bay a Gulag, and I certainly didn't call it a secret death camp location.

This IS a thread about GITMO and comments by a Lord somebodyorother
to close it, isn't it? These are your words in response to a person discussing
GITMO, aren't they??

Originally posted by Code_Burger
I really feel for those poor bastards who are locked away in secret
torture camps, with no hope of trial, or anyone finding out who and
where they are. Who knows if any of them are even still alive.

And you DID bring up this -

when you're in a God damned Gulag, you Maniac.

Gulags are death/hard labor prisons for people who speak out or
work against their government. Neither of these fit GITMO. And
since I'm obviously not speaking out against GITMO or the War on
Terror ... I certainly wouldn't be going to any American Gulag
- they don't exist anyways.

Or were you speaking about in 2008 when Hillary becomes president?
You think she'll establish gulags here in America to put people who
don't bow to the radical left wing philosophy?

(** Yes, I do think Hillary will be president in 2008 and NO I don't
think she'll establish any gulags )

[edit on 5/12/2006 by FlyersFan]