If US Attacks Iran, Iran Attacks Israel

Originally posted by grimreaper797
nygdan i guess we will have to agree to simply disagree. there is no way the US military is going to be able to pull that off on Iran. You are severely underestimating these people and their capabilities. But i refuse to argue this because its mainly opinion till it happens. I say their weapons are way more efficient and dangerous then iraqs and that they have much better technology. I believe that they are alot more united and "fanatical" then iraq was, and there will be much more resistance.

we cant argue this till its over though.

The problem with those who support the next war against Iran in an absolute since IMO seems to be that they believe there will not be any consequences for the US and it's forces for the next war. Indeed if they saw serious consequences for the war they would be thinking twice, and of course this is not to mention the argument of whether or not the war is actually just or not.

Their arguments seem to center around a number of ideas.

1. The country involved has nothing whatsoever that they can use to attack America or its armed forces in the region.

2. Even if the country does have some kind of weapon it's only minor and even then the US will destroy it before they can even get a chance to use it, because of qiuck and accurate bombing. Now really I'm not an expert militarily, but I can read, and most of the analysis that I've read haven't stated anything like America destroying all of the enemies weapons in 5 minutes.

3. Playing down the economic consequences by pointing out that the US doesn't buy oil from that country.

4. If you mention allies that would come to help them in the region or outside of it, they deny anyone would help them.
After reading this stuff over and over again I began to wonder as to whether or not these people are well informed or not. Or do they just like these ideas because they fit their particular view because it all seems based on playing down the threats from oneside while playing up the threats against the enemy. Even when there is a enough evidence to prove the threats to their side are actually very real.

If these arguments don't work then they point out Iraq Gulf Wars, Iranian youth or the Kurds.

The truth is IMO that if it was really going to be that easy then the US would have smashed Iran along time ago. The reality is that Iran has always had alot of complicated fatcors surrounding it. The Iranians are not on the US level militarily but their missles represent some kind of a threat and everyone knows it.
The economic consequences are real and would be felt globally, the US doesn't have to buy their oil and oil resevres mean nothing, the oil prices are rising even now but the US is not using any reserves. If I'm wrong then someone should explain this.

As I said Iran is not Iraq. This idea that the Iraqis did this and said that and had this and that equipment but they still lost and now the same thing is happening with the Iranians is ridiculous. Iran is its own country, the physical territory and population size is even different. Furthermore they don't have the exact same military equipment as Iraq did in every part of their military, and the way the US would fight them would be different just as the US fought in afghanistan in a different way from Iraq.

Even the current conflict is playing out differently. While it may have some similarities to Iraq it's not the same. History can repeat itself but two things do not happen the same way twice. And it seems as though people are expecting the Iranians to fight the America the same way the Iraqis did. Truth is that the Iranians are not as isolated as those two countries were.

The Iranian youth argument is nonsense, if these guys are so fed up with their government that their just begging for an attack then what have they been waiting for all of this time. America and many other governments would love a revoultion. Look to your west and theres America, also to your east, north and south but still nothing. By now the Ayatollahs should have been dragged through the streets. When you combine this with the fact that 90% of Iranians support the nuc program, and then I've read on Asia Times that the country is going through a silent revolution of change then who needs bloodshed anyway. The prospects there seem dead.

The Kurds are an important ally, but what is this paramilitary guerilla force going to do; overthrow all of the governments in the region. These guys are trying to hold down the little piece of territory they have in the north, if they were that powerful the US should use their help in getting control of the Sunni triangle and indeed all of Iraq.
Iran is not isolated, I don't expect the Chinese and Russians to jump in militarily, but their already supporting Iran, with weapons and politically, they could also act economically, and the same goes for Venezuela.

[edit on 6-5-2006 by NeoQuest]

Furthermore forces in the region have already stated that they'll go into action when Iran is attacked why wouldn't someone believe this, especially when these guys also have something to lose in the current conflict if Iran loses. At least it should be taken as a serious possibility. I would hate to have someone leading, jumping into actions blindly.

Ultimately this whole thing could lead to the first battles of WW 3, all because the Iranian threat has been exaggerated by two nations principly, and why should the world fight that.

Originally posted by NeoQuest
... all because the Iranian threat has been exaggerated by two nations principly, and why should the world fight that.

Which "two" would that be, cause last I checked and read, there were MORE than simply "two nations principly"?






seekerof

Originally posted by NeoQuest
...and the same goes for Venezuela.

Venezuela is going to do what, exactly?
Cut the OIL off? Hardly.
They themselves are seemingly having a "sudden plunge" in either production or OIL themselves, cause if not, why are they buying OIL from Russia?

Is Venezuela's oil production rapidly waning? One source reports that the world's fifth largest oil producer is showing signs of a rapid decrease in production, one of the key tenets of the peak oil theory.

Venezuela is buying oil from Russia in order to avoid defaulting on deliveries to clients. The situation raises serious questions about the country's oil production and the future of PDVSA as a major oil producer, and increases the risk to the U.S. oil supply should the country's oil production suddenly plummet.


According to the Financial Times: "Venezuela, the world's fifth-largest oil exporter, has struck a $2bn deal to buy about 100,000 barrels a day of crude oil from Russia until the end of the year. Venezuela has been forced to turn to an outside source to avoid defaulting on contracts with "clients" and "third parties" as it faces a shortfall in production, according to a person familiar with the deal. Venezuela could incur penalties if it fails to meet its supply contracts."
Venezuela Buys Oil to Meet Contracts

seekerof

What I was saying was that Venezuela could stop selling oil to the US, and they could always principally change who their selling their oil to. Nevertheless this was just an idea I was throwing out, not an absolute on any level. And it doesn't stop others from acting.

Only the current American government and Israel are exaggerating the Iranian threat. A couple of European allies have jumped aboard, but they have continousily from time to time shown their reluctance to want to go a war route while taking a tough stand. The rest of the world agrees that there are worrying signs but their making it clear that negotiation and diplomacy are the way to go. It hardly sounds like they consider this to be a world threat and remeber that American and even British media may exaggerate the responses of other nations.

On the other hand you listen to Bush and Israel and you here of a grave threat to American and regional security. A great challenge, and the threat of nuclear force. Israeli leaders have stated that the whole world must work hard to the full maximum extent and join toghether and stop Iran and the UN must place severe sanctions and send a message. You would think that the Iranians were more powerful then they actually are.

You don't here a whole lot from every country in the world. Many Asian nations have spoken once or never spoken. African nations say very little. Egypt seems to say Iran and Israel. South Africa wants diplomacy. And the Iranians seem to have allies in a couple of nations in Latin America.

[edit on 6-5-2006 by NeoQuest]

[edit on 6-5-2006 by NeoQuest]

intrepid

Contributor: 0


posted on 3-5-2006 at 12:35 -

How Christian of you.

Anyways, you may have been bred to take responsibility but I HAVE a responsibility, as a member of the staff of ATSNN, to keep threads clean and on topic. This will happen or Red Flags will fly. M'kay?

NOW, back to the topic.


YOU are a staff member? Where are your distinctions, or markings of proof?

Originally posted by Low Orbit
has anyone noticed that most of the people named Christian aren't. huh?

[edit on 3-5-2006 by Low Orbit]

How dare you! I am more christian than anyone alse! It is the virtue of the LORD that lifts me above you! And anyone who doubts this, has condemned himself!





[edit on 6-5-2006 by Christian IX]

Originally posted by Springer

Originally posted by Christian IX

Good and Evil runs more in the blood than anything alse! So does INTELLIGENCE!
It DOES make me better than other people, because I have been bred to take responsibility, unlike YOU!

Oh that's FUNNY...

How do you explain me then mate?

Springer...

I know nothing of you! Therefore I can't explain you.

I agree with ur comments neoquest.
Venuzula Iran saudi arabia niger and russia, along with others supply the world with oil.
Oil can be used decisivly to make the west bow down, dropping nukes will not make refueling prices lower. That A FACT. Venuzula would worry if iran is hit, and would think they are on the list.
Irans leadership is strong and Neoquest put i wanted to say about the Iranian people in a nice way. Iraq cannot be compared to Iran. The US know iran means trouble to there ideological aspirations in the region, and any oppostion to these ideas (under the banner of democracy and global terror) is dealt with accordingly. Irans military is no pushover and i persoanlly see Iran as being able to crush Isreal if it werent for Isreali nukes which theyd use. The real question is, Is it worth invading Iran for the sake of Isreal?
Should American blood and european euros be spent to defend nations that most americans do not know where they are on the map?
No
America should quite down in the middle east and slowly it may regain its position of power. America has failed Iraq and the way they are dealing with the Insurgents they might as well surrender there weapons to Zarqawi (hell be fumbling heaps:lol


Iran will retaliate no doubt about that but i belive there are to many "ifs" and "buts" in the issue. Its clear as the sky, Americas and Isrealis new aggresion stems from the fact Ahmadijane has asked and said stuff about Isreal which nobody else has had and his comments have been welcomed in countrys such as germany.
He said somthing on the lines that the world builds parks while Germans are building memorials for people they do not know and are paying for crimes whcih there grandpearents did. I can assure u there is truth in what he said. Bush replys the free world will not tolerate Irans drive for nukes (sounds like Iraq)
This makes u wonder about what u can and cant say in the world where americas the cop.

Ahmadijane also said that no arabs took part in the Hitlers crimes, so why should we pay for europes mistake and problem?

This is gonna turn out bad and violent unless the US realises and understands what its postion is gonna be after any attack, thats if they dont fall with Iran
NeoQuest loved ur analysis. Cheers

Christian IX we have figured out your identity!!!!
www.break.com...

or is that just one of the members of your church? seriously chill out on the condemning to hell BS, no one wants to hear it nor do they care if you say they are going. Personally i think its very contradictive and actually disgraceful to your religion to act in such a way, but i guess im just going to hell for saying that.

hmm i wonder if this is a bannable offense....o well

anyway back on TOPIC...which is....actually its pretty much void because they said it wasnt their views, aka done.

It is sad to think of the possible loss of life, yet Israel will destroy anyone that comes against her. With or without the help of the US.

Of course Iran could always use those "super" torpedoes that nothing can track..
Or the missles that can shoot anything the US has down...
Do you think he gets them through his Stargate??

Maybe Iran will wake up and get that NUT out of there and we can avoid this...

One can hope anyway.

Originally posted by semperfortis
It is sad to think of the possible loss of life, yet Israel will destroy anyone that comes against her. With or without the help of the US.

Oh we'll be there, don't worry about that.

Maybe Iran will wake up and get that NUT out of there and we can avoid this...

One can hope anyway.

The mullahs have to go, also. They are the real players over there.

jsobecky:
You are 100 percent correct...
I keep forgetting the other fanatics, you hear so much about him on the news anymore.

at last ive managed to read everything...lotsa of good opinions...

is it illegal for a signatory country to the npt to enrich unranium for the purposes generating power? i think not...

so the next issue would be...is iran enriching uranium to weapons grade? no one knows for sure and iaea have found no evidence of this.

so if iran says they only want to enrich uranium for civillian use (and if theyre honest about it) why doesnt iaea station personnel at those sites in iran permanently where theyre enriching uranium to ensure this. iran should agree coz they get what they want and everyone feels safe.

too simplistic?

I think if IAEA put's inspector's at these facilitie's it's good for Iran because they have the real weapon's grade enrichment going on elsewhere.

They've been playing this game of hide-and-go-seek for long enough to learn who the leaker's are. They've been using them to feed information that's year's old to the West.

The real program is using cascade's of P-2 centrifuge's purchased from ex-soviet state's. I personally think that Iran has a nuclear capability of some sort already! Why else would Ahmidinawacko be strutting around like a Turkey in heat?

I mean 5-6 of Pakistan's top nuke scientist's have been in Iran for a couple year's right?

Originally posted by HimWhoHathAnEar
I mean 5-6 of Pakistan's top nuke scientist's have been in Iran for a couple year's right?

Sure have, just reported that here, along with mentioning that the British MI6 has confirmed that they are also helping Al-Qaeda, undoubtedly, as reported, with President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad's approval.





seekerof


[edit on 7-5-2006 by Seekerof]

seer...if thats the case and if its true that iran already has nuclear capable weapons and if mi6 has the evidence then why are they still beating around the bush?

come on...if its true...show us the evidence and eveyone in the world will support the us...



"I think if IAEA put's inspector's at these facilitie's it's good for Iran because they have the real weapon's grade enrichment going on elsewhere."

really?...it is up to iaea to find everything and disclose it, otherwise what are they for? are you saying if the iaea cant find it...it was moved or elsewhere and not bcoz they didnt have it?

"They've been playing this game of hide-and-go-seek for long enough to learn who the leaker's are. They've been using them to feed information that's year's old to the West."

wow...good to know that you know more than everyone else...congrats...so how many nukes does iran have?

"The real program is using cascade's of P-2 centrifuge's purchased from ex-soviet state's."

ibid.

Originally posted by SpanishFly
seer...if thats the case and if its true that iran already has nuclear capable weapons and if mi6 has the evidence then why are they still beating around the bush?

come on...if its true...show us the evidence and eveyone in the world will support the us...

I think you need to re-read what the article is asserting because, then, I think you will re-consider what you are asking, because some of what your asking has nothing to do with what the article presented, such as your mention of "if its true that iran already has nuclear capable weapons."






seekerof

[edit on 7-5-2006 by Seekerof]

Originally posted by Seekerof

Originally posted by HimWhoHathAnEar
I mean 5-6 of Pakistan's top nuke scientist's have been in Iran for a couple year's right?

Sure have, just reported that here, along with mentioning that the British MI6 has confirmed that they are also helping Al-Qaeda, undoubtedly, as reported, with President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad's approval.





seekerof


[edit on 7-5-2006 by Seekerof]

Worldnetdaily, sorry this is a crap source of information... And if they would REALLY have those informations, the war would be finish by now.. So let's find another source and wait for the UN resolution this week or the US attack in the next 5 weeks, before Iran become a full SCO member.

Originally posted by skyscape
Holy Warrior is right. Read Ezekial 38 & 39 in the Bible and you'll see the Ezekial War that's right around the corner.

Iran, Russia and other countries are going to go after Israel. In the meantime when the Armies of Russia, Iran etc are all over Israel, nukes will fall over the countries of America and Russia. Then God will have the Armies that are all over Israel fire upon each other and kill each other. Israel will survive unscathed.

But then right after this is when the Anti-Christ comes into the scene and signs a peace treaty with Israel stating they will be protected for 7 years. The 7 year tribulation begins. The Anti-Christ breaks his treaty after 3 1/2 years..

These things are about to take place. You see the Ezekial war developing in the news before our very eyes. I believe the rapture will take place before the Ezekial War. Christians start looking up because our Redemption draws close!!!!

I can't believe Christians actually believe this stuff. Wow.

Pray tell, if bible god is going to smite every country that goes after Israel, why the HELL do they have so many nukes? My bad, but this type of thinking is out there...way, way, OUT THERE!

Well, I think this is Iran realizing that they were f-ed from the beginning. All you gotta do is read the PNAC hit list and look at a map to see why they're running off at the mouth. You're sitting on a snotload of oil, 2 of your neighbors flanking you have been invaded, and now the invaders are pushing the world to get you to stop playing with uranium.

I'd do the same thing if I was leading Iran. You know you're screwed if you go along with the program, and you're probably screwed if you don't. Like the saying goes, "if I go out, I'm a go out swangin!"

Iraqi, I like your style.

But, I'm not sure if you're aware of the game being played here. True, Iraq is giving our forces hell now. But, you know what; the people in control ALREADY KNEW this would happen! They KNEW they would need more troops than they sent in, but that's not their intention. Their intention is to make as much money as possible (war is big business).

So, yes, the people in command KNOW that Iran will be a tough one. But, they don't give a shot. They're not going to be dying, they'll be making tons of money.

This whole thing is crazy. It's more strategic than chess or no limit hold em combined.