Why didn't the Nazis win WW2?

Its new technology or you lose it.

Germany developed all the new war planes and all the advanced technology.
So some people invested in Germany.

But what was new can grow old and America managed to take advantage
of newer technology.

Oil's contol of the economy will continue because they can develop the next
energy source.

Oil suppliers are going nuts, not the oil users cause they can switch to electron
free energy sources that have been known for 100 years. Until someone
made Einstein the know t all. Cause he is not. Who destroyed your science
books? Not Einstein, he was made the patsy.

Originally posted by Paralaxx
Ok, whether you believe or not. Just a question or two....

Assume that both sides during WW2 were controlled by the same group for purposes of creating a new world order.

Wouldn't letting Germany win, help that? Couldn't America/Britian just have tried to not do a good job in defeating Germany?

Too much men and materials, metals, oil etc, were going into saucer programs
(given top prioity by the NWO) that the war effort suffered.

The NWO have top flight air travel and gassless (well they might have all the
AW 16 and below horded) engines and power, now why wouldn't you want that.

This WAS known pre WWI, lets say well known pre WWII, tell it to Oprah bet
she won't touch it nor Spiellberg, nor Akroid, nor.....

You can only hear it only the internet.

The above is fiction based pure conjecture from the internet as all my
post under various ids.

Fighting Kentucktian, thanks for your brilliant post. I learned alot from it and I had never looked at it that way but it makes alot of sense. It would also explain why so many elite Americans invested in Nazi Germany, i.e. Bush family etc.

I'll only echo what so many others have mentioned. They lost - not because they were "fated" to or by any other shadowy purpose - but because they opened up a second front that they had neither the men or equipment to handle. There's no mystery to this - just military fact.

After a decade of war they got tired.

Everything turned out exactly according to plan.....unfortunately the plan calls for THREE world wars, not just two....

Hitler was not controlled by the financiers, he was originally funded by them, but he hijacked control of industry and slave labour for his own ends. He realised what his real job was, did you know that Hess flew himself to Scotland to negotiate peace with Britain? He was arrested however and spent the rest of his days rotting in prison until he was eventually suicided.

This was taken from www.threeworldwars.com

Not saying I believe it, just saying its an interesting perspective.

"The First World War must be brought about in order to permit the Illuminati to overthrow the power of the Czars in Russia and of making that country a fortress of atheistic Communism. The divergences caused by the "agentur" (agents) of the Illuminati between the British and Germanic Empires will be used to foment this war. At the end of the war, Communism will be built and used in order to destroy the other governments and in order to weaken the religions."

"The Second World War must be fomented by taking advantage of the differences between the Fascists and the political Zionists. This war must be brought about so that Nazism is destroyed and that the political Zionism be strong enough to institute a sovereign state of Israel in Palestine. During the Second World War, International Communism must become strong enough in order to balance Christendom, which would be then restrained and held in check until the time when we would need it for the final social cataclysm."

"The Third World War must be fomented by taking advantage of the differences caused by the "agentur" of the "Illuminati" between the political Zionists and the leaders of Islamic World. The war must be conducted in such a way that Islam (the Moslem Arabic World) and political Zionism (the State of Israel) mutually destroy each other. Meanwhile the other nations, once more divided on this issue will be constrained to fight to the point of complete physical, moral, spiritual and economical exhaustion…We shall unleash the Nihilists and the atheists, and we shall provoke a formidable social cataclysm which in all its horror will show clearly to the nations the effect of absolute atheism, origin of savagery and of the most bloody turmoil. Then everywhere, the citizens, obliged to defend themselves against the world minority of revolutionaries, will exterminate those destroyers of civilization, and the multitude, disillusioned with Christianity, whose deistic spirits will from that moment be without compass or direction, anxious for an ideal, but without knowing where to render its adoration, will receive the true light through the universal manifestation of the pure doctrine of Lucifer, brought finally out in the public view. This manifestation will result from the general reactionary movement which will follow the destruction of Christianity and atheism, both conquered and exterminated at the same time."


Sorry for the long post but I think its relevant.....does anybody know what time it is?

Edit: Oh yeah, supposedly the above was written in a letter from Albert Pike to Mazzini in the 1870's.

[edit on 1-6-2006 by DrBones666]

Some more slightly interesting things, by the way, I love history, planning to be a history and music teacher, once again sorry about the long posts.....

Fact: 1933 Hitler signed Concordant with Vatican Cardinal Pacelli.
Fact: Hitler himself said" I learned much from the Order of the Jesuits. The SS was modeled after it. He compared Himmler to Loyola.
Fact: Hitler thought the emigration of Jews to Palestine would benefit Germany. Those who did get out were forbidden to go to America, at the pressure of American Jews.
Fact: Bush family, through Prescott benefited selling to the Nazis.
Fact: The Bush family fortune is based on this illegal trade.
Fact: US brought many Nazis over to work in the CIA, military and science.
Fact: The CIA was present in Dallas the Day of the Kennedy killing. (They were not allowed to work in the USA at that time, only overseas)
Fact: Bush Senior was in CIA, and in Dallas, and knew many of the CIA, one "of which was reported by another CIA under oath, to have said" We killed the President that day, very professional"
Fact: Not only oil is sold from the offshore rigs, drugs are too.
Fact: Jesuits and Catholic Church support Castro, and other dictators in Latin America, and were the original perpetuators of the Opium wars.
Fact: Nazis sent Vatican gold when the War was over.
Fact: While a Cardinal, Ratinger said, the Messiah is yet to come.
Fact: In the book Antichrist Conspiracy, Inside the Devil's lair, the author quotes the words of Samuel Morse, who asserted like the Trojan Horse, the Jesuits have come into the country to destroy the principles of religious freedom and democracy.
Fact: 911 official theory has thousands of omissions. As seen on your other blogs
Fact: The bombing of a country for false reasons has led America wide open to nuclear suitcase bombs brought over through an unprotected border, by newly created Jihadists from Iraq.
Fact: From the Talmud: Sanhedrin 99a: "When Messiah comes, he will destroy the Christians"

These are excerpts from:www.reformation.org
"Ever heard of the Inquisition, from 1200 A.D. to 1800 A.D. . . ? It's never mentioned any longer. We hear a lot about the Jewish Holocaust when 6 million Jews perished under Hitler. But most people don't know that Hitler was a Roman Catholic and an instrument of the Holy Office. Hitler was never excommunicated for his crimes against humanity and causing the deaths of millions of people; whereas Martin Luther was excommunicated for translating the Bible into German!!
Meet the real Adolf Hitler.

In 1933 the Vatican signed a Concordat with Germany making Roman Catholicism the only recognized religion in that country. Hitler was financed by Wall St. and the corrupt U.S. Bank.

Signing the Concordat is Cardinal Pacelli (later to become Pope Pius XII). By 1933, he was the Vatican Secretary of State. Seated second from his left is Franz von Papen who was the Papal Nuncio to Germany. Standing at the far right can be seen the little known Vatican prelate, Montini, later to become Pope Paul VI.

Eugenio Pacelli (Pope Pius XII from 1939 to 1958) was a brilliant diplomat, a cunning politician and a religious crusader. He was appointed Papal Nuncio to Germany in 1920 — the first since the Reformation!! He, more than anybody else outside Germany, helped Hitler to power. He was one of the paramount personalities of the 20th century. He transformed the Vatican into a global political instrument. His pet obsession was Communism, and he became the main instigator of the Cold War.


1. Edmond Paris, Secret History of the Jesuits, page 163

Apparently Hitler was following the orders of the Council of Trent, which defined heretics.
Mussolini, Hitler and Franco had concordants with the Vatican in order to set up the one world government to set up the Millennial Kingdom under Pope Pius XII. Even though the recent Pope asked for forgiveness of the crimes of the Church, and set up the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith, at the Vatican II Council he was unable to Abolish the very evil Jesuit order responsible for the second Inquisition.

All of you are fools and know nothing.

Why did the nazis lose the war? Simple - they were led by a man who was a deranged rascist, who believed that he was a genius at warfare (thanks to his sycophantic toady Keitel), who thought that the British were weak, the Russians were sub-human and the Americans were cowards (he thought that US agriculture was very shoddy, based on a few pictures - see the transcripts of Hitler's military conferences for more pearls of unwisdom). He wanted to keep all of his conquests, even when military sense was calling for a retreat or a change in tactics.
And far too many German people thought that he was right, until the Allies came and smashed their country into the dirt. Oh, and he made them a country of mass-murderers.

I have trouble buying the Hitler turning on Russia as their demise. True Russia is a big country, but it is just that a country and it can be conquered like any other. At this time Hitler could not have turned a blind eye at the Russian situation. Stalin's purges had in effect made the military a leaderless mob with un-qualified officers taking leading the way. This was not to last however, Russia was preparing for was as well, in fact some say faster than Germany itself. As one example, during the early stages of the war the best tank was the Russian T-34, it was quite superior to early German models. Stalin wanted these tanks to be produced by the thousands to meet the German army which he planned to attack in 1942 (if the Germans did not attack in 41). The USSR had many obsolete weapons at the start of the war but there were plans to be completely modern within a couple years.

Hitler could not allow the Russian threat to grow, he had to strike when they were still somewhat weak. During the beginning there were many successes, 3 million Russians were killed or captured by Dec, that is the total number of men in the USSR army in the west at the time of the attack. So what was the German's problems? Like always it was Hitler "The Patsy" who screded things up.

First the Germans were treated as liberators especially in Ukrine, these people hated Stalin and the Soviets. So you have millions of people supporting your cause, what do you do? Allow them to partake in the crusade, allow Ukrinian men is the army (which were needed, even as connon fodder) while the rest can farm and produce goods for the Germans in return they recieve spoils of war. No, Hitler deemed them as sub-humans and had them attacked as well. What did this cause; first German troops would have to be held back to occupy these areas when they are much needed at the front; second the Ukrianians launched a guerilla war which held back even more Germans to fight guerillas and defend supply lines, and lastly the Germans could not count on Ukranian men to join their ranks to fight the Soviets. This was estimated to keep approx 300,000 German soldiers behind the lines when they could have been better used at say, Stalingrad. Those extra men could have altered the war plus the Germans could have counted on approx 500,000 Ukrainians to fight along sides them.

Second Hitler kept changing his mind for the final goals on how to defeat the USSR. I forget offhand exactly what they were but it was something along the line that Moscow was the ultimate target, then it went to circling Kiev, then went back again to Moscow. This changing of plans cost about a month of time and much wear and tear on German machines. What would a month have done for the Germans? Well their advance stopped when the snow and cold got to tough to fight in, and at that point they were only 19 miles from moscow. 1 month would have been plenty of time to have taken the city.

So with this said It was all Hitler's stubbornness why the attack on Russia failed which in turn lost the war. Had Hitler stuck to one objective and not deemed his number one fans (Ukrainians) as enemies Russia would have been crushed.

One of my friends and I both are in AP-European history and we talk about things like this all the time. Especially about WWII, in my opinion, wouldnt it have been a better choice for the allies to become an ally of Hitlers germany? They would have been able to stop the holocaust and defeat stalin who in the long run both hated and killed more people and caused more havor than hitler...

I would guess most people would claim that the UN today, can just slowly take away our rights until it develops towards NWOs goals. Such as tricking us into believing that its what we want, instead of using fear, we are guided by hand into NWO. Since if the Nazis would have won, by taking Britain, and then taking what ever else is in their line of sight, the population would see it as war, being taken over, and rebeling back most likely, while if its through diplomacy, such as the UN today, we will gradualy accept it, rather than fight it. So honestly, in my opinion, if the NWO existed, and was controlling WWII, ( Which I doubt ) it would likely do it through peace, rather than war.

So I suppose that might explain your situation, although I personaly, see the NWO more as an ideal, rather than a group that really controls governments.

Originally posted by DrBones666

This was taken from www.threeworldwars.com


"The First World War must be brought about in order to permit the Illuminati to overthrow the power of the Czars in Russia and of making that country a fortress of atheistic Communism... At the end of the war, Communism will be built and used in order to destroy the other governments and in order to weaken the religions."

"During the Second World War, International Communism must become strong enough in order to balance Christendom, which would be then restrained and held in check until the time when we would need it for the final social cataclysm."

"We shall unleash the Nihilists and the atheists, and we shall provoke a formidable social cataclysm which in all its horror will show clearly to the nations the effect of absolute atheism, origin of savagery and of the most bloody turmoil. Then everywhere, the citizens, obliged to defend themselves against the world minority of revolutionaries, will exterminate those destroyers of civilization, and the multitude, disillusioned with Christianity, whose deistic spirits will from that moment be without compass or direction, anxious for an ideal, but without knowing where to render its adoration, will receive the true light through the universal manifestation of the pure doctrine of Lucifer, brought finally out in the public view. This manifestation will result from the general reactionary movement which will follow the destruction of Christianity and atheism, both conquered and exterminated at the same time."

Ladies and gentlemen, boys and girls, let's open our bibles and read a few verses from the book of Acts.

32: And the multitude of them that believed were of one heart and of one soul: neither said any of them that ought of the things which he possessed was his own; but they had all things common.

34: Neither was there any among them that lacked: for as many as were possessors of lands or houses sold them, and brought the prices of the things that were sold,

35: And laid them down at the apostles' feet: and distribution was made unto every man according as he had need.

Acts Chapter 4

I once asked a youth pastor about this. He told me that it wasn't communism because the followers wanted this to happen.

Why the Germany lost?
Not a single reason there.
But one of the major moments was the 7th December 1941.

Without the USA in the conflict, Germany might be able to play kinda stalemate with USSR. Russians have suffered terrible losses and their economy would be in much worse shape without lend-lease aid. Without the USA Britain would never get enough forces to invade European mainland. Maybe it'll be able to win in the Africa after a long and painful combat.
With the USA in the war, all became just a question of time and logistics. RAF night raids were a nuisance and were able to cause some damage to cities and factories, as well as unescorted USAAF day raids. Escorted USAAF raids wreaked havoc on the Luftwaffe fighters. Large numbers of fighter planes allowed USAAF to use parts of escorts for "free hunts", damaging the transport network even more and weakening Luftwaffe even more as one of primary target of these raiders were airfields and planes taking off/landing.
With US trucks, railway engines and tracks, copper wires, radios, everything went smoother also in Russia. Soviet soldiers received US food. Not to mention Airacobras, Kingcobras, Bostons and Mitchells, plus Shermans (fully comparable to T-34 despite legends).
I've read an account of a German soldier, who stated the thing that demoralised him the most was seeing a destroyed Sherman shortly after arriving at th front. Plus a captured depot full of US spam tins. He said that until that time he believed the propaganda about Allied supplies to the USSR being fully intercepted by Luftwaffe and subs, after this he begun to realise the war is unwinnable.
Similar feelings were being expressed after first sighting of USAAF Mustangs over Berlin.

Think about it...

Nazi Germany has resistance movements.
U.S.S.R. had resistance movements.

If either of those won out right, they in fact would have more groups to attack them. These sort of internal conflicts are very hard to ever crush. So instead, the Allies win. So now people in the U.K, or U.S.A, sit there and say: Our Governments would never do that.

While slowly, year after year, more freedoms get removed. While the people sit and go: "No, never."

Originally posted by Pita
.... wouldnt it have been a better choice for the allies to become an ally of Hitlers germany? They would have been able to stop the holocaust and defeat stalin ....

What? Apart from the dislike of communisim what would the allies have found common ground with Nazi Germany with? Exactly how would that have prevented the Holocaust in your alternate world?

I don't think Hitler was in any mood to have someone interfere with his plans. Germany in Hitlers eyes was always #1 with other nations either conquered or willing stooges for Germany.

People who call hitler a "patsy" are fools.
He was a genius in his own right, yes he was a racist, and he was no military genius. So please i dont think any of you who call histler a "patsy" could of taking control of a countries government, and start a war machine that will be studied for hundreds if not thousands of years.
As stated plenty of times befor this, the reason why hitler lost was Mother Russia. Russia is not like other countries at the time, it has such a large areas of space that it is nearly impossible to have controlled all of russia. If the german troops won at stalingrad they "might" of been able to take the siberian industry, and call for a peace treaty with russia, taking alot of their land. This is what i think Hitler was trying to do. As we all know Germany got beaten at stalingrad, and the german eastern front fell back to eastern germany. With the red hordes behind them. What would of been a more sound stratergy was to focus on britan and africa, take some of the british mainland, and take all of egpyt then work your way down to British India. I belive if Britan lost India and some of its homeland it would of declared peace on Germany. Leaving the Russians to last.
But thats all theory.

Originally posted by wang
People who call hitler a "patsy" are fools.
He was a genius in his own right, yes he was a racist, and he was no military genius. So please i dont think any of you who call histler a "patsy" could of taking control of a countries government, and start a war machine that will be studied for hundreds if not thousands of years.
As stated plenty of times befor this, the reason why hitler lost was Mother Russia. Russia is not like other countries at the time, it has such a large areas of space that it is nearly impossible to have controlled all of russia. If the german troops won at stalingrad they "might" of been able to take the siberian industry, and call for a peace treaty with russia, taking alot of their land. This is what i think Hitler was trying to do. As we all know Germany got beaten at stalingrad, and the german eastern front fell back to eastern germany. With the red hordes behind them. What would of been a more sound stratergy was to focus on britan and africa, take some of the british mainland, and take all of egpyt then work your way down to British India. I belive if Britan lost India and some of its homeland it would of declared peace on Germany. Leaving the Russians to last.
But thats all theory.

Patsy- a person who is easily manipulated or victimized: a sucker.

Welll perhaps that might not be the right word, but I say might because I sincerely believe that he was part of the international conspiracy or at least a dupe or a pupet of it. I will have to start another thread on that one. I believe he ONLY rose to power because that is what the unseen rulers of the world wanted, not because of his smarts.

As I stated some posts back Hitler could have probably beaten Russia in 41 if he had not kept chainging the objectives and not have oppressed the peoples who originally hailed the Germans as liberators. Don't hold me to this but I don't think hitler planned on taking all of Russia. From what I recall he only wanted the European section up to the Urals. Since the vast majority of Soviets lived in that area, the Asian side (even though it would still would have been the largest country in the world by large) would never have risen to any level of power.

I do agree with you that Africa should have been a main goal and to cross the Suez canal.

Great thread folks.

The the more i read about this subject and the first half of C20, the more I realise just how different the mindsets of the time must have been. In political and military circles of the time the notion of Empire seems to have been a significant motivational factor.

After WWI, the Britain and France emerged with their Imperial structures more or less intact when compared to those of the Axis powers. Subsequent policies enacted by the Allies were perceived as 'humiliating', particularly by the citizens of Germany who, historically, have been imbued with a strong sense of national pride.

There are many reasons why WWII came about. It is known that Hitler espoused the idea of 'Lebensraum', with a particular eye upon lands to the East, the inhabitants of which, as has been noted, were viewed as sub-human by Nazi doctrine. It may be significant to note that the idea of an Aryan bloodline was seen to include Scandinavia and Britain.

As has been pointed out, a two front war is difficult to conduct at the best of times, but it must be remembered that Hitler initially moved Eastwards. War was declared on Germany by the allies subsequently. This then forced Hitler into the second front.

Why did Hitler lose the war?

If we theorize that Hitler would have defeated Russia had the conflict been bilateral, then the intervention of the Allies, thus making the creation of the second front inevitable, is crucial.

Perhaps another question one could ask is, 'Why did the Allies intervene at all?'.

[edit on 6-6-2006 by KhieuSamphan]

Originally posted by Fighting Kentuctian
I
To me it seems that Germany did just about everything to lose the war, was Hitler the ultimate patsy?

I really like this thread, i never expected so many would share my view about history.


Hitler was, without a shadow of doubt, conceived as a NWO executive, pre-war support shows that. Germany's wartime blunders can be attributed to a combination of Hitler's lack of strategic capabilites and remaining NWO sub-executives who gave false advice.

F-ex. Hitler's physician recommended AGAINST the Me262 jet fighter because of high G loads (alledgedly). problem is when hunting bombers, you don't need to pull lots of G's and the jets' low thrust made maneuvering combat problematic if not suicidal. ready in 1943, combined with unguided rockets, this weapon would have meant a lot of grief to allied bombers....on its own, mind you.

there are other interesting parts, such as the extremely late destruction of germany's synthetic fuel factories, bombed in late 1944, these plants were the mother of all high value targets, but i guess the allies wanted to bleed the Russians a bit more to suit their strategic plans.

[edit on 7-6-2006 by Long Lance]