Thermite you tell me

Originally posted by HowardRoark
There was plenty of oxygen available.

There was plenty of fuel avaiable

The debris pilw was also a good insulator, keeping the heat in.

How was there plenty of oxygen available under hundreds of tons of debri.

[edit on 26-4-2006 by ULTIMA1]

[edit on 26-4-2006 by ULTIMA1]

[edit on 5/8/2006 by 12m8keall2c]

G210,
I'll leave it at this - the second slag cools it solidifies and it stops flowing in mid stream. Find someone with a torch and have them cut some schedule 80 steel for you and you will see the same thing you are looking at. Because the angle appears to be fairly accurate, I'd guess the cut was made at the weakest point. The edge of a previous weld. In the pic it appears to be cut at the joint where another crosspiece attached.

As to temperature. Stick a piece of steel in a coal furnace and see if it burns. You will only find a piece of slag. Thats why coal burning stoves have to have a special iron grate. A steel grate from a wood burning stove will burn in a coal stove. The interior of a building fire gets far hotter than that. Heat rises. As it rises it creates an updraft that acts like a chimney and sucks up the air from below which enriches the oxygen supply making it self perpetuating. This is not rocket science. If there were no oxygen the fire would have gone out. It burned for many hours and days with the hot spots getting hotter and hotter.

I guess I just do not see how this simple photo of beam that has been cut by a torch advances the theory that 911 was a hoax. In fact it does the opposite. At first I was interested, but this sort of thing makes me think I could better spend my time reading other threads where there may be some credibility.

Originally posted by Blaine91555
G210,
I'll leave it at this - the second slag cools it solidifies and it stops flowing in mid stream.

I guess I just do not see how this simple photo of beam that has been cut by a torch advances the theory that 911 was a hoax.

..stops flowing in mid stream of a vertical bar in that clean form we see with the rectangle corner.. sorry i doubt this..

i maybe did say a little too much by saying the building must have been health when the cut has been done..I can not conclude this from this, agree (was a little impulsive here forgive ... but from what I see in the pic I at least conclude that something must have stopped the slag there and gave it the form we see what ever and whenever it was.

I try to stay objective and just analyse what i see.

The steel column could be cutted that way like HowardRoark described. The scratches on the left side in the cut fits to that. Good finding. would explain the among of material flowing on the outside fornt of this steel bar.

well yes guess that pic will not help us any further.

byway the steel column far right in the pic also shows an angle cut if we can judge from the little we see of this column.

Originally posted by Blaine91555
G210,

This is not rocket science. If there were no oxygen the fire would have gone out. It burned for many hours and days with the hot spots getting hotter and hotter.

This is contrary to the evidence of the infra red aerial photographs taken 5 and 10 days after 911. These show gradually cooling hot spots rather than widespread burning, and these hot spots were later identified as being steel members. This precludes the heat transfer from widespread burning to these members.

There is also a wide range of possibilities between no oxygen and a stoichiometric supply.
Gordon.

argh, why you connect me to temperatur and oxygen?
pls let me out of this I never talked about such things. that were others..

Whne I firt heard people suggest thermite might have been used I was very skeptical, but after seeing this video I have pretty much changed my stance

This is the braniacs video someone already posted so you can see what thermite looks like when it burns.

www.yikers.com...

now this is a video of the WTC on 9-11 and as you will see the cameraman zooms in on a fire and you can see something thats glowing very brightly (more than the rest of the fire) and its dripping a molten metal like substance. It looks like thermite to me

video.google.com...



[edit on 3-5-2006 by warpboost]

Yes Warpboost.....

That is virtually conclusive evidence of thermite.

Here is a great page from the scholars website comparing the two videos you linked side by side:

www.checktheevidence.com...


As for the picture in the original post.........it is also confirmed by the Scholars as evidence of thermite. The angle cut and molten metal dripping help demonstrate this.

(as confirmed by a professional welder in this thread)

If a torch was used the metal would spray AWAY from the column....it would NOT drip down the side of it as shown.

Plus look at how high that column is.....there would be no way for a welder to get footing.

I agree though.......we need to find a date for this photo. It would support the thermite contention immensly if this was on or near 9/11.

The firefighters in full gear lead me to believe it was.

Austrailian Thermic Lance Company

After looking at this website my money is on a thermic lance. Look closely at the pictures.

If a torch was used the metal would spray AWAY from the column....it would NOT drip down the side of it as shown.

Spoken like someone who has never cut steel before.

Plus look at how high that column is.....there would be no way for a welder to get footing.

I guess a ladder would be out of the question then.
Don't forget the various lifts and baskets that were used to reach out of the way places...




Also, we have no idea what state that area was when the column was cut, there could have been a pile of debris high enough to necessitate the worker to have to bend over to cut it.


[edit on 5/5/06 by Skibum]

Originally posted by fm258
I don't know what caused that column to shear at that angle, but I can tell you for fact, it wasn't a torch.

I am in precision metal mfg. and have cut beams with acetylene torches before.

Spoken like a person who HAS cut steel before.

Have you skibum?

sure there could have been a ladder/cherry picker but that doesn't explain the angle cut and the slag.

Nobody said it proves theremite. We maintain that it is FURTHER EVIDENCE of thermite since it is clear this was not from a torch.

Oh and thanks for the picture that demonstrates how it DOES spray away rather than drip down the side.

Let's see wjat some others have to say about it.

www.weldingweb.com...

Some more welders weigh in.


www.ukwelder.com...


www.hobartwelders.com...


One of the persons on the last thread pointed something out that I can't believe no one here has spotted before.

How many people are in that photo?

Does anyone see the construction worker in the carhardt overalls right next to the column in question?











[edit on 5-5-2006 by HowardRoark]

More photos.

Note the first one.

Why did Chris Bollyn crop the photo?


www.america911.com...

www.america911.com...

www.chicouniform.com...

Originally posted by HowardRoark
Let's see wjat some others have to say about it.

www.weldingweb.com...

Wow that was conclusive a buncha guys making posts on a welding thread... they could have been agents too Howard?

Furthermore, while they talk about why the building came down they don't talk about how it came down.

I didn't see the question answered either: why the diagonal cuts?

Originally posted by HowardRoark
Some more welders weigh in.

www.ukwelder.com...

first posters first line (was it you that asked the question Howard in the forum as a new member btw??) was:

""Looking at that picture, I assume the towers have been down for some time. ""

A number of other posts there indicate that these guys are amateurs too: one guy says he can't even hope to do a cut that good... errr okay...

Originally posted by HowardRoark

www.hobartwelders.com...

I assume that it was you once again that posed the question Howard?

On this board the people seem a bit sharper in general, but they don't all agree.

One guy says thermite is only used to weld and annother guy says it is used to cut also.

There is a lot of comments about conspiracy theories in general by people that don't know the first thing about them.

Most claim the cuts were oxy or some variation and done during the rescue and cleanup operation... which is possible but since we don't know when the pictures were taken it is a mute point.

Also there is possible technology that could have been used that is not commonly known in industry... eg. military etc that could have been used here pre-collapse.

Howard there are 3 people in the picture, I knew that when I posted it?. 5 in the large shot you have a link to, but so what, the picture I posted has been zoomed and cropped. Lets stay on topic please.

Anyway I do not believe the column was cut with a torch, why, because of the slag, it's that simple, a cutting torch blows the slag away, and secondly I believe there was no need to cut a 45? degree angle to shear a column unless you want it to swing out of control I assume it would have to been secured with a crane if there was anything to be cut. And of course it would have been a diagonal cut.
The crane would have control of the piece, if it was really cut with a torch.
So no, in my eyes it was not done after the fact. And before anyone jumps on me I have a family of welders, Who I have worked with, and they have there fancy tickets, high pressure, tig, mig, and all the rest and they do not believe that column was torch cut.
So who knows,


[edit on 6/5/2006 by Sauron]

Slick Howard you edited your post,

[edit on 6/5/2006 by Sauron]

Howark,

that people in the welder forum you gave link for doesnt make a competent impression to me when i read what they are talking about the 9/11 in general.
Hope they know a better about the cut but also there it seems they are guessing more than knowing. I didn't see a conclusive comment. If I missed it point me to it pls.

And yes there are 3 people. Nothing new saw that too, but why should we have mentioned this?

oh byway it just happend today that I saw some cutted T-steel bars. Much smaller then the one at the WTC but the color looke dthe same.
Interesting on them I saw 3 sorts of 'cut's:

One absolutly flat and clean like it was cut with a high-precisions-saw
One looked like what I understand a tourch cut looks..but was much cleaner then the pic we discutate here.

And one 'cut' looked like it was simple flat broken !? It was clean but the cut-plane was very rough. No clue how they do such a 'cut'. Does anyone know?