Thermite you tell me

Originally posted by HowardRoark
I'm not the one trying to divert the subject of this thread. The photo shows a column cut with a conventional torch. If you need any more convincing, just look at the source of the photo, Chris Boylan.

Roark, nice try but this photo doesn't show anything conclusive at all, those are firefighters, not welders standing around the foreground suggesting that it isn't torch cut. CDI didn't start clean up until the initial rescue operations were over with.

You might criticise Howard frequently, but given the amount of crap you throw at him I think he does pretty well considering. Of course as you envision him as being a representative of the Government like his Bush's right hand man or something, I can imagine it really makes one swell up with pride thinking they have gone up 'against the system'.

I have to agree with Howard et all. I'm going with a torch cut of somekind. But I'm also not ruling out thermite if someone can show me that it's possible to have such a neat cut.

Edit: Even small posts.....I still manage to spell something wrong.

[edit on 25-4-2006 by Griff]

Originally posted by twitchy
CDI didn't start clean up until the initial rescue operations were over with.

I think you may have said it right there. There still could be the chance that the photo is taken near a rescue mission while the firefighters were there. Notice that the firefighters aren't wearing masks. This indicates to me that the time frame is longer than just after collapse. The thermal scans show high temperatures for weeks. I don't think firefighters would be standing around without masks if this is true. Just a thought.

edit: About the firefighters. I don't want to sound disrespectful or anything but, why aren't they wearing masks?

[edit on 25-4-2006 by Griff]

I read somewhere that respirators were available, but they clogged up quickly and after a while, they workers stopped wearing them.

Originally posted by HowardRoark
The photo shows a column cut with a conventional torch.If you need any more convincing, just look at the source of the photo, Chris Boylan.

You know this conclusively Howard ? You say it as if it is. You better have facts to back that up if you are going to present that as fact.

I agree with Howard in that case (I just got a chill). This girder really looks like it was cut with a torch. It is most likely that it was . If you look at the videos provided earlier, they can be cut pretty wuickly and accurately in hat sense. Whether it happened before or after the collapse is the question.

Originally posted by Rasobasi420
I agree with Howard in that case (I just got a chill). This girder really looks like it was cut with a torch. It is most likely that it was . If you look at the videos provided earlier, they can be cut pretty wuickly and accurately in hat sense. Whether it happened before or after the collapse is the question.

I dont mean to pick, but did you just read what you said?

First you agree Howard is right in that it was cut with a torch.Then at the end you ask weather it was done before or after the collapse.If it happened after, well ok.But how is it going to be cut before the collapse and if so,why? I think that when you say it maybe BEFORE, we have to leave out being cut and insert thermite.So your reply is kinda mixed up.

Could it be possible - now correct me if I'm wrong - that during the course of fighting the fires and searching for survivors that cutting torches were used? Could it also be possible that all fire fighters are trained in the use of cutting torches and use them routinely?

It seems to me that often people want so badly to uncover a conspiracy that reason is thrown out the window. I think this is one of those cases. The original poster seemed to me to be asking a question based on an idea and was asking if it were possible. Anyone that has been exposed to the cutting of metals would be able to immediately see that this is a torch cut. The reason for all the slag is that it was a quickly done, sloppy cut which would enforce the idea that it was salvage or rescue related.

Originally posted by AgentSmith
You might criticise Howard frequently, but given the amount of crap you throw at him I think he does pretty well considering. Of course as you envision him as being a representative of the Government like his Bush's right hand man or something, I can imagine it really makes one swell up with pride thinking they have gone up 'against the system'.

I actually have a great deal of respect for roark, he's one of a very few hardliners that bothers to put some effort and references into his posts and I enjoy debating him. I throw crap at him because I deem that he's worthy of my crap slinging.

And Thermit reaction lance cutting has not yet reached US soil?

Firstly, the inside of the iron pipe (lance), which is filled with iron, aluminum and magnesium is fired up with an oxygen-burning torch. The material is then cut by thermal oxidization, which is generated by the contact tip of iron pipe (lance).

So it could indeed be a thermit cut.

Does that satisfy the debunkers?

Only for a moment, sorry.

Had i not discovered Prof. Dr.- rer. nat. Gerold A. Schneider and his research i could not present this...

Functional performance of novel cutting ceramics at high temperature

www.tu-harburg.de...

I hope you now understand how a diagonal cut could be made, if required.

That prof is very destructive if you ask me, a quick search comes up with other projects he is working on.

Piezoelectric related technology does produce progressive cracks in steel.







[edit on 25-4-2006 by The Links]

The Links,

Could very well be I do not think that would leave the amount of slag we are seeing in the photo though. Having done considerable cutting with both a conventional torch and with cutting rod I'm 99% sure this was done with a conventional cutting torch. And a very hurried sloppy job of it as well. But then that does leave the 1%.

A better question might be; why does it matter?

(What I mean by "sloppy" is that the torch was adjusted improperly, as to the ratio of gases, causing an inordinate amount of slag because the flame was a little to cool to cut efficiently)

Originally posted by SMR
First you agree Howard is right in that it was cut with a torch.Then at the end you ask weather it was done before or after the collapse.If it happened after, well ok.But how is it going to be cut before the collapse and if so,why? I think that when you say it maybe BEFORE, we have to leave out being cut and insert thermite.So your reply is kinda mixed up.

I'm just considering whether it was done to reduce the amount of thermite needed during the takedown. Is it possible that the column was cut on an angle to reduce the friction of a downward collapse. By placing Thermite on key girders, then cutting others in the days or weeks before, it may have made the destruction that much more perfect.

I honestly doubt it.

Most likely it was cut after the fall.

you Know you dont have to buy Alex's DVD's to watch them! Log onto his other site Prison Planet.TV pay a fee of $5.?? and watch them all !! Hell in less than a day you could see them all and cancle your membership and ony spend $5.00 and some change.

Buy the way once you do buy any of his DVD's he gives you 100% permission to make as many copys as you want and pass them out !! now if he was into it for the money he would not do that !! If I had a DVD burner in this system I would burn anyone a copy of them and mail it to you for nothing if you asked me to. No Joke ! Prove me wrong on this I dare ya!

Now about Thermite, My brother, Grandfather, His father, 1/2 of my Wife's family work's or has worked for Beth. Steel (now under another name) and they use thermite to cut steel in some situations, since the 40's !! No Joke !!

Originally posted by g210
For me this cut fits to a clean up..also you see that it broke at the top left corner (A).
But of course as well it could make sense to cut such a steel column when doing controlled demolishon. (But the cut looks to clean for me for this.)

Have to correct myself. The cut doesnt looks as clean as I thought.
Just found the pic on rense again.

Two things hit my eyes that I missed at first, look at the original pic of the very first post.

At the fornt side of the column A you see not that so less melted materia below where the steel starts getting covered by scrap.

Two things I question here.
1) Note I dont know much about tourch cutting so mabye someone can answer this: How can you cut the stell that way that not so less material flows on the outside?? I would expect it that most of the material would flow inside when you cut it from outside.

2) How could the material stop where its stopped and get hard again when there is obviously nothing there that could hold it at that place when it is cutted in the pic enviournement.
For this chek the left side ..its over the scrap .. you even see the shadow of the molten and hardned material yet there is nothing there that could have keept it there.

Could be that on the clean up when they cut the thing there was something there that hold it there ..we dont know it.

but more likely there was something there bevore the building colapsed...strongly indicating that it was cut when the BUILDING WAS STILL HEALTH!!

What do you think?

g210,

When you cut steel, it does not act like a typical liquid when it melts. It remains quite viscous and follows gravity while adhering to the edge of the cut. That picture shows a perfectly normal cut by a cutting torch. The slag obeyed the rules of gravity. The oxygen flow was probably a bit off causing an excess of slag. When cutting steel for salvage or removal there is no reason to make careful cuts and not as much care is taken.

Steel will burn just like wood under the right conditions. Because this requires such high temperatures and sustained heat this only happens in a situation like a burning building where the steel is surrounded by an inferno that allows the temperature of the steel to reach high enough for it to ignite. In a fire the flame may only be 700 degrees or so, but the coals may be a thousand or more degrees hotter than that.

I don’t think you will find anyone who has worked around construction who would believe that that picture shows anything unusual or that the cut could have been done prior to the fire and collapse. It was probably done during the removal of the debris or during search for survivors.

@Blaine91555

check the pic again. there is no way the slag will build a rectangle corner without beeing something there to catch it into that form.

There was something there that hold the slag from falling or flowing further when the cut happend. I see no way around this.

Wether if that what was there was there after the collaps and when the clean up cut happend and removed later I dont know.

It looks to me like the column fell, or was pulled in the direction of the camera after the sides and the back were cut. You can see in the near corner where the last bit of the side plate fractured without being cut. The front plate was then cut from the backside to complete the cut.

Originally posted by twitchy
Roark, nice try but this photo doesn't show anything conclusive at all, those are firefighters, not welders standing around the foreground suggesting that it isn't torch cut. CDI didn't start clean up until the initial rescue operations were over with.

How do you know who made the cut? There were welders and other rescue teams there the first night with equipment to clear and remove the debris.