Bosnian Pyramid Update

What happened to all the people that were 100% sure this wasn't a pyramid?? Should we start an apology section? It goes to show how many things don't get a second look when people refuse to believe the unexplained. Sorry what were some of the points people had to say to prove these were not pyramids? I have been following this for a long time and I had hoped that be delcared a pyramid. I wonder what else has been shot down that may deserve a second look? maybe we don't know everything already!

good luck all!!! Deny Ignorence!!! the world is ours!

Originally posted by SpinDropSmile
What happened to all the people that were 100% sure this wasn't a pyramid?? Should we start an apology section? It goes to show how many things don't get a second look when people refuse to believe the unexplained.

Nope, I'm still here. Here's what I've said in this particular thread:

There is no "pyramid" under that dirt. Osmanagic is gathering material for another one of his idiotic pseudoscience books that sell to the drooling mouthbreathers like hotcakes

I still stand by this, and will continue to do so, no matter how much others here may claim that this Egyptian Geologist has said something which he has not said.

Originally posted by SpinDropSmileSorry what were some of the points people had to say to prove these were not pyramids? I have been following this for a long time and I had hoped that be delcared a pyramid. I wonder what else has been shot down that may deserve a second look? maybe we don't know everything already!

If you've been following this "for a long time," then why do you need to ask us "What were some of the points people had to say...."? If you want to know what points I have used to come to my belief (which, I should add, is based primarily on Osmanagic's claim that the "pyramid" is 12,000 years old), I provided the info along with a link in my post on the previous page. BTW, the link still works.

Originally posted by Crvenkapicapeople it is truth

today egyptian expert ali abdulah berekat confirmed da bosnian hill is a pyramid, he said that stone blocks are man made, not natural

yeaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaah

No, he didn't. He said he "thinks" the hill "appears to be" a pyramid of a type previously unknown. He said this based on stones found just under the surface on the side of the hill. The stones, he said "appear to be man-made." By this, I assume he means "shaped by man."

He has not addressed the age of the site, which is known to have been the site of a medeival structure, as well as a Roman outpost - both types of structures that use stone that has been "shaped by man..."

For all we know, they have lucked upon some old Roman roadway, which I believe has already been suggested in this thread, or maybe in the other one.

Harte

Originally posted by SpinDropSmile
What happened to all the people that were 100% sure this wasn't a pyramid??

Still trying to figure out why it's called a pyramid when it has an irregular shape and slopes at all different angles.....

Oh, and how Osmangic knew it was 12,000 years old, and - despite the above - resembled an Aztec, flat topped, step pyramid - just by looking at it's triangular profile.

@ Harte - Give me a one good reason people should believe your word instead of Osmanagic that there is no Pyramid in Bosnia. Ignorant would just call books 'stupid', and base his believes on pre-made concept. From what I can understand, because you did not like Osmanagic's books, you are SURE he can't discover anything in this world. You have right to have your opinion, but you might take it easier, as it might affect your hart.


@ Donner & Essan - I noticed also luck of control at site according to pictures, but as I'm sure that Osmanagic is doing fine job, as Bosnian archeological institution and some others were requesting insurance of proper work. Also there is an historical site nearby, which is protected as Bosnian culture site.


@ Crvenkapica, Rizla I Bosniak – Da li se javljate iz Bosne? Da li se znamo sa drugh BH foruma? (Nekad sam imao nick Scorpio @ cyberbulavar.


@theTRUTHtheWAY – zemljak, nisam siguran sta si napisao, te ne znam da li si baniran sa foruma ili si samo dobio upozorenje. Ne vidim razloga da nekoga napadas jer ima misljenje drugacije od tvoga ili u ovom slucaju negira nesto sto jos nije niti dokazano da postoji, niti da ne postoji. Nadam se da si jos tu. Pozdrav!


@ All - Time will show if this really is pyramid. I myself would like it to be, as that will give us a good reason to question all historical books made by ol' folks that wrote history without many correct facts. Most of them were unable to comprehend world that does not agree with their religious believes.



[edit on 5/19/06 by vietifulJoe]

for now i highly doubt that it is actually a pyramid, mainly because the Balkans are littered with ancient and subterrainian structures. This one seems to me to be one of those rather than a giant pyramid. We'll soon see though, at the very least its exciting to see another major find in the balkans!

Would love to see some more photo's of the stones with the script engraved in them if any exist

I doubt that they found anything with engravings on it, as that would made it major news all around the world. There is only one stone with couple of channels on it, on one of the first pages of this discussion. It looks more like product of nature, then of man’s hand.

Here is another link to a msnbc.msn.com...

I would love to be close enough to the site to take a look and see.

Egyptian backs Bosnian pyramid claim
Amid debate, visiting expert says structure appears to be human-made.

Now this is getting interesting in deed.

Originally posted by ThePieMaN

Originally posted by Bosanac
If you go here, there are pages of pics. This is from the cities website.


www.visoko.co.ba...

Cool. Thanks. On page 3 of the photos there are 2 pics with several engraved stones on them. Very interesting.

Thats very odd. There were pictures of slabs with inscriptions or markings on them from that site and now they are gone. I wonder why they would have removed them?

some kind of ancient script found in the valley of bosnian pyramids







turists and volonteurs


some kinf of steps close to the pyramid





walls of the bosnian pyramid, serbian archelogist Ivana Zdravkovic and volontiers



[edit on 20-5-2006 by Crvenkapica]

www.basilicatanet.it...

(ANSA) - SARAJEVO, 9 MAG - La collina di Visocica, che nasconderebbe la prima piramide europea, e' opera della natura e non dell'uomo. L o sostiene un team di otto geologi dell'universita' di Tuzla, che dopo i sondaggi effettuati sui lati della collina orientati verso i quattro punti cardinali, hanno concluso che e' costituita da sedimenti stratiformi di vario spessore, mentre la sua forma regolare e' il risultato di processi endodinamici ed isodinamici nel dopo miocene. Y47 (Riproduzione Riservata)

which translates via Babelfish to:

"SARAJEVO, 9 MAG - the hill of Visocica, that it would hide the first European pyramid, e' work of the nature and not of the man. L or supports a team of eight geologi of the universita' of Tuzla, than after the surveys it carries out to you on sides of the hill orients towards the four points cardinals to you, have concluded that e' constituted from stratiformi sediments of varied thickness, while its regular shape e' the result of endodinamici and isodinamici processes in after Miocene. Y47 "

Ah, found this:

source

8 May 2006, 15:30 (GMT+2:00) : Tuzla (FENA). Professors from the Faculty of Mining and Geology at the University of Tuzla, acting members of the Geological explorations team that did geological studies of the Visocica hill near Visoko (the locality of an alleged Bosnian pyramid), presented today at a press conference in Tuzla the final results of their research completed at the request by the Foundation "Arheološki park Bosanska piramida sunca" Visoko. The team leader Professor Dr. Sejfudin Vrabac said that they have concluded that Visočica hill is a natural geological formation, made of classic sediments of layered composition and varying thickness, and that its shape is a consequence of endodynamical and egsodynamical process in post-Miocene era. According to Professor Vrabac who specializes in paleogeology, there are dozens of like morphological formations in the Sarajevo-Zenica mining basin alone. The Geological team report on Visocica, based on the data collected in six drill holes at 3 to 17 m depths, is supported by the Research and Teaching Council of the Faculty of Mining and Geology, as well as the Association of Geologists of Federation of Bosnia and Herzegovina.

Representatives of the Foundation "Bosanska piramida sunca" from Visoko were present at the press conference, and a member of that foundation and the coordinator for geological research Ms. Nadzija Nukić (BS geology, U of Tuzla 1971) rejected the research findings by the scientific staff from the University of Tuzla, stating that their research was "too superficial for making final conclusions". According to her, there are "too many elements that point at the conclusion that human hand took part in building the pyramid". She added that the excavations will continue as planned, announcing a visit by the pyramid and geology experts from Egypt in mid-May. According to her, "they should provide answers to some questions by the method of comparison". She added that it is her understanding that the Visocica hill near Visoko is not a lone example as there are nine objects or natural formations shaped as pyramids on the territory of Bosnia and Herzegovina, which "can hardly be a coincidence". "Tunnels, the existence of which is undeniable, also lead to the need for additional explorations that, regardless of the report by the University of Tuzla, are continuing", said Nukić.

The tunnels are undeniable, so is the existence of ancient mining in the area -- might explain the 'tunnels', right?

Why hasn't this had more publicity? :-)

Doug

[edit on 20-5-2006 by Doug Weller]
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[edit on 5/22/2006 by 12m8keall2c]

Originally posted by ThePieMaN

Originally posted by ThePieMaN

Originally posted by Bosanac
If you go here, there are pages of pics. This is from the cities website.


www.visoko.co.ba...

Cool. Thanks. On page 3 of the photos there are 2 pics with several engraved stones on them. Very interesting.

Thats very odd. There were pictures of slabs with inscriptions or markings on them from that site and now they are gone. I wonder why they would have removed them?

Probably one of them is the one that was exposed as a fake -- they'd done a 'mirror' on it, so that the right side was a reversed version of the left -- several sites picked up on that.

Doug,

Excellent find, and great first post.

Welcome to ATS. And to think you'd never heard of us until a few short weeks ago!

Harte

Yes, great find Doug, thanks!

Of course it makes no difference now that some bloke from Egypt has allegedly said it's a pyramid. After all, what more proof could you want?

Just a few words of opinion...why must people immediately offer skepticism when presented with information that does not fit nicely within their idea of "normal" and "reality."??

What this guy is exploring is the idea that perhaps what we now know about the Egyptians may require the addition of MORE information to be included in archaeological history books. I get the impression that anyone who puts up the "This discovery is garbage!" posture is doing it for the slam dunk effect. Kinda like the professional sports attitude of jamming a basketball in a hoop or spiking a football.

Science is the collection of information through the careful study and analysis of the facts. (that's not textbook, just my take on it) The facts are not all in yet. The story of the Bosnian Pyramid needs to be an unveiling, an uncovering. If this guy finds a pile of horse manure under a blanket, it's a steaming pile of goodness we'll all be treated to. (sarcasm) But until the blanket or veil has been lifted enough to determine what we're looking at, I can't for the life of me understand why skepticism is warranted.

Spend your energies debunking him, but from what I understand to be the case, proving someone wrong first requires a basis to start from. It's still early...still lots of dirt to remove...still not enough to throw rotten tomatoes over yet...

Originally posted by newtron25
But until the blanket or veil has been lifted enough to determine what we're looking at, I can't for the life of me understand why skepticism is warranted.

Spend your energies debunking him, but from what I understand to be the case, proving someone wrong first requires a basis to start from. It's still early...still lots of dirt to remove...still not enough to throw rotten tomatoes over yet...

Your observations in respect to this are right on.

Knowledge and understanding are not as welcomed as we would presume.

Discouveries around the Globe are dismissed with contempt when indications are that they conflict with the previously assumed strutures of the established thought.

But you know, nothing comes easy, and if it did, what would it realy prove.

Ciao

Shane

Originally posted by newtron25This discovery is garbage!" posture is doing it for the slam dunk effect.

On the contrary, i feel its more like the "this mountain is a 10000 year old pyramid" posture is for the slam dunk effect.

Originally posted by newtron25The facts are not all in yet. The story of the Bosnian Pyramid needs to be an unveiling, an uncovering.

EXACTLY!! How can we call it the 'Bosnian Pyramid' if the facts are not all in yet?

THIS is why alot of people are discounting the claims, not because they are afraid of anything that falls outside of mainstream history.

A balanced, scientific approach might have been something along the lines of....

We suspect there MAY be a manmade pyramid type structure beneath that mountain and are attempting to investigate further. First we plan on doing a complete historical survey of the mountain and identify what known structures/sites exist and approximately when they were created. We will then start a small dig in an area where there are no previous structures known to exist. In our excavation site we have come across a number of stones that may not be naturally occuring formations. Further analysis will be required for confirmation. The possible formations have not been dated yet, so it is too early to say if they are evidence of an actual pyramid or if the remains of a previously unknown settlement/structure have been found...

However, what we have is someone stating with 100% certainty that the hill is indeed a pyramid, a 'fact' that was broadcast all over the news before any physical evidence for it has been gathered. In their minds, anything they find will be evidence of a pyramid, since they've already decided that is there.

This project seems at times more of a PR campaign than an archaeological dig.

Now dont get me wrong, there may very well be something there - though I personally feel the chances are slim. However they way they are going about it sends up some red flags to me. Its seems their initial main concern was to sway public opinion as to what they WOULD find before they even went in and found ANYTHING.

[edit on 26-5-2006 by Donner]

Originally posted by newtron25
Just a few words of opinion...why must people immediately offer skepticism when presented with information that does not fit nicely within their idea of "normal" and "reality."??

If I said there's an Inca graveyard in my back garden, would you believe me? Or would you ask for evidence?

All us skeptics want is some evidence.

We know the hills has an irregular shape and slopes at a variety fo angles. Which rather spoils the pyramid theory from the outset. And whilst some photos have been released showing what apper to be manmade stones, most show what is clearly (to any geologist) natural bedrock.

Inscriptions have been uncovered and then conveniently forgotten. Why?

Local geologists insist the hill is entirely natural.

Until Osmanagic presents some real evidence to the contrary, one must support that contention. Simply saying it's a pyramid is a long, long, long way from proving it.

And us skeptics are odd like that. We like to see the proof first

Originally posted by newtron25
Just a few words of opinion...why must people immediately offer skepticism when presented with information that does not fit nicely within their idea of "normal" and "reality."??

What this guy is exploring is the idea that perhaps what we now know about the Egyptians may require the addition of MORE information to be included in archaeological history books. I get the impression that anyone who puts up the "This discovery is garbage!" posture is doing it for the slam dunk effect. Kinda like the professional sports attitude of jamming a basketball in a hoop or spiking a football.

Science is the collection of information through the careful study and analysis of the facts. (that's not textbook, just my take on it) The facts are not all in yet. The story of the Bosnian Pyramid needs to be an unveiling, an uncovering. If this guy finds a pile of horse manure under a blanket, it's a steaming pile of goodness we'll all be treated to. (sarcasm) But until the blanket or veil has been lifted enough to determine what we're looking at, I can't for the life of me understand why skepticism is warranted.

Spend your energies debunking him, but from what I understand to be the case, proving someone wrong first requires a basis to start from. It's still early...still lots of dirt to remove...still not enough to throw rotten tomatoes over yet...

This guy is a believer in Atlantis and Lemuria, some of us know enough about how these ideas developed to know that anyone who believes in them doesn't have a lot of interest in evidence.

He isn't bothering to prove himself right. He hires a team of geologists from Tuzla and when he doesn't like his report they are just rubbished with no attempt to show how they were wrong. That isn't how science should work. The geologists' report should have been rebutted scientifically if it could be done.

He's claimed people are supporting him without their permission, even set up alleged email addresses for others to contact them (one person at least I should say).

There is no science here. Science works by evidence -- and scientific theories do change because of new evidence, it happens all the time. So does our archaeological understanding of the past. All that is required is solid evidence, not stuff about special powers.

He has just claimed that the tunnels that are there are like tunnel complexes under the pryamids of Egypt, Mexico and Peru. But there are NO such tunnel complexes in those places. Don't you see a problem there?

Doug

If this guy is potentially ruining a valuable site, how come I don't see more legitimate researchers pouring over the border to either a) help him out, b) stop him from what he is doing, or c) stand at the excavation site with a beer and laugh their assess off?

I'll tell you why none of that is happening: legitimate researchers are too good to associate themselves with someone who isn't as schooled as them, who isn't part of the academic Illuminati, who isn't playing with a full deck.

It's snobbery Doug. The same kind of snobbery that might cost the world a real find. The same kind of snobbery that perpetuates people following crackpot ideas.

Whether you like it or not, people are entitled to research whatever they believe they can substantiate no matter how outlandish it is. I agree with you that it's a colossal waste of time and effort to look for answers for Atlantis. But what this pyramid or ancient burial ground or whatever the hell it is...if it's valuable as archaeological evidence, you can't kick this guy for being excited and trying.

Sure beats dismissing him wholesale - you get the information you may or may not have had (confirmation of existing theories is also valuable). I'm guessing most "real" researchers and scientists can't be bothered unless its fully funded, 99% sure of a favorable outcome and involves a cushy office....

Originally posted by newtron25
If this guy is potentially ruining a valuable site, how come I don't see more legitimate researchers pouring over the border to either a) help him out, b) stop him from what he is doing, or c) stand at the excavation site with a beer and laugh their assess off?

I'll tell you why none of that is happening: legitimate researchers are too good to associate themselves with someone who isn't as schooled as them, who isn't part of the academic Illuminati, who isn't playing with a full deck.

It's snobbery Doug. The same kind of snobbery that might cost the world a real find. The same kind of snobbery that perpetuates people following crackpot ideas.

Whether you like it or not, people are entitled to research whatever they believe they can substantiate no matter how outlandish it is. I agree with you that it's a colossal waste of time and effort to look for answers for Atlantis. But what this pyramid or ancient burial ground or whatever the hell it is...if it's valuable as archaeological evidence, you can't kick this guy for being excited and trying.

Sure beats dismissing him wholesale - you get the information you may or may not have had (confirmation of existing theories is also valuable). I'm guessing most "real" researchers and scientists can't be bothered unless its fully funded, 99% sure of a favorable outcome and involves a cushy office....

You aren't being fair. Excavation costs money, and the reasons he has been able to get the money and help are part nationalism, part to do with the local economy benefitting from the attention, part good publicity on his part, part politics (there is an interesting argument that this has something to do with national politics in fact, but I won't go into that here).

Real archaeologists get their hands dirty, struggle to fund their work, and certainly don't have any certainty about a favorable outcome. A lot of archaeology is funded on a shoe string as part of legal requirements for a development, for instance. That's much more common then archaeologists being able to go out and research just what they want to.

This guy has no experience of archaeology. He talks about Lemuria and Atlantis. Why should real archaeologists spend time and money (theirs it would be, no one would fund them) with this? Not that it won't happen, I hope that one or two will get out there when they have a chance.

Look what happened when the geological team Osmanagic paid for reported unfavorably -- no serious attention was paid to the report, it was just rubbished.

You ignored my point about the tunnel complexes. He claims they exist in Egypt, Mexico and Peru. People are going to believe him -- but of course, they aren't there, or to be exact, there is no evidence for them. He isn't telling the truth.

I worry that he is raising people's hopes and this could cause problems if and when it ends in tears.