Pyramids at Giza were there BEFORE the Egyptians got there.

lost in space



referencing the name HAM

I believe that is the origin

of the name used in china

it is a very old name and

goes way way back.

either to HONOR the man

you mentioned , by his deeds,

or thru marriage...I'm not sure


were you aware of that ?

toasted

Originally posted by madnessinmysoul

if you live in egypt, you ARE egyptian

end of story

(my logic is stupid AND flawless for all of you that don't get irony)

LOL With THAT logic God in the Bible and all the angels etc ARE Aliens true ETs!!! [ET = Extra Terrestrial = NOT OF THIS PLANET] No escaping that it says so in the Bible And since Satan and his buddies got the boot down to Earth... that makes em LANDED IMMIGRANTS by any true meaning of the words Pure stupid undeniable logic

So the only question remaining are they legal or illegal aliens, or did Bush give em green cards?

Originally posted by Harte
Zorgy, baby,

Why do you in one case want to have a translation of the heiroglyphs, while in the other refuse to consider any of the glyphs surrounding your picture of the Pharoah's lightbulb from Temple of Hathor at Dendera

Sigh.....thought I asked what YOUR opinion was on the "light bulbs" LOL not the quotes.. one says they are "cosmogonical" [which means- Cosmogony is any theory concerning the coming into existence or origin of the universe, or an origin belief about how reality came to be. wikipedia] So mine and Beths theory is just as "cosmogonical" as any other...

The second says "Horus was believed to have sprung " so they are not sure either and the symbols remain "enigmatic"

Now you also assume I think they are light bulbs... [even though EVD built tested and proved it could be in that video] At this point I am simply investigating odd markings on walls. It is also likely that they are Goa'uld larva tanks... afterall they sure look like snake larva things...

(Hathor was the really hot Goa'uld chick on SG-1.)

Well DUH, she looks pretty hot in a lot of icons I have seen too. [But that silly hat has to go] But then we keep trying to tell you that SG-1 has it right...

You know its very interesting that 5 days after Beth posted the reference in Wikipedia about the Archeology student and his profesor having given the idea to producers and then settled a law suit out of court... the reference was edited out of wikipedia...

Fortunately Wiki keeps older copies on file. Who did it and why I don't know. Just odd that it happened after it was mentioned. At the very least it is a perfect example of how academia deals with "problematicas"

The other photo I don't recognize, and I don't read the hieroglyphic text. But Byrd reads glyphs. She'll probably let you know.
Harte

I shall wait anxiously for that moment.

Originally posted by zorgon

Originally posted by Harte
Zorgy, baby,

Why do you in one case want to have a translation of the heiroglyphs, while in the other refuse to consider any of the glyphs surrounding your picture of the Pharoah's lightbulb from Temple of Hathor at Dendera

Sigh.....thought I asked what YOUR opinion was on the "light bulbs" LOL not the quotes.. one says they are "cosmogonical" [which means- Cosmogony is any theory concerning the coming into existence or origin of the universe, or an origin belief about how reality came to be. wikipedia] So mine and Beths theory is just as "cosmogonical" as any other...

Actually, no. The quote (which is from fringe egyptologist John Anthony West, by the way,) refers to the Egyptian cosmogonical mythology. It's quite well known. Repeated endlessly pretty much wherever hieroglyphics are found, though it underwent a few minor changes over the thousands of years that they maintained their religion.

Originally posted by zorgonThe second says "Horus was believed to have sprung " so they are not sure either and the symbols remain "enigmatic"

Again, not really. The quote refers to what the [Egyptians are known to have believed, and not what today's archaeologists know for certain because they can read it right there on the walls of many tombs. When the author said "...Horas was believed to have sprung..." he means that this is what the Egyptians believed. It is certain, anyway, that this is what the Egyptians actually claimed to believe.

Originally posted by zorgonNow you also assume I think they are light bulbs... [even though EVD built tested and proved it could be in that video] At this point I am simply investigating odd markings on walls. It is also likely that they are Goa'uld larva tanks... afterall they sure look like snake larva things...

Didn't mean to put words in your mouth, so to speak. But Zorgon, you simply must come to terms with the very real fact that the story of what is happening in the Dendera relief carvings you refer to is written right there on the wall next to the carvings themselves! Hence no "theory" comes into play, unless you want to count as a "theory" the idea that we can take what the Egyptians tell us about the carvings, again, right on the same wall as the carvings, to be indicative of what the carvings represent. So, I suppose you could say then that my "theory" is that we can at the very least take what today would be called "captions" we find right next to the carvings as representative of what it is the Egyptians are depicting in the carving right next to the words, which the Egyptians took the trouble to write.

Originally posted by zorgon

(Hathor was the really hot Goa'uld chick on SG-1.)

...You know its very interesting that 5 days after Beth posted the reference in Wikipedia about the Archeology student and his profesor having given the idea to producers and then settled a law suit out of court... the reference was edited out of wikipedia...

Fortunately Wiki keeps older copies on file. Who did it and why I don't know. Just odd that it happened after it was mentioned. At the very least it is a perfect example of how academia deals with "problematicas"

I don't see it as such. After all, if it were put in Wiki by some follower of the lunatic fringe, then wouldn't it be edited out, considering that the real author of the original Stargate screenplay would have a claim otherwise? What has academia to do with that? Where, exactly, are the fingerprints of this nefarious "academia" you keep referring to? In what way can you in the least way implicate any single member or group within the "academia mafia" in any of this?

Harte

Harte,

I know your heart is in the right place, but it's time to snap out of it. Fact of the matter is, these are the same type of people who tell us that persistent vegetative state patients have no clue what's going on around them, while study after study is proving them totally wrong. These are the same type of people who claimed the ancient Greeks couldn't write and therefore their ancient texts were useless for confirming any thing in ancient history. These are the same type of people who say things like "Gulf War Syndrome Doesn't Exist." And "Troy" never existed. The same type who said things like "There's no written historical evidence, outside the bible, to substantiate the bible's claims about things like the mesopotamian flood" (and a half a century later, someone discovers Sumer, ancient Akkadia and the flood tablets). This list goes on and on. Believe it or not, truth is not solely the purview of the "degreed academia" because they have cornered themselves into unretractable statements. Think, dagnabbit.

Originally posted by undo
I know your heart is in the right place, but it's time to snap out of it. Fact of the matter is, these are the same type of people who tell us that persistent vegetative state patients have no clue what's going on around them, while study after study is proving them totally wrong.

I think you've gotten some things terribly confused. That's medicine, not Egyptology or any other science -- and the evidence for awareness in persistent vegetative states has always been around. There's a series of treatments based on it, in fact, that were pioneered in the late 1960's.

However...

These are the same type of people who claimed the ancient Greeks couldn't write and therefore their ancient texts were useless for confirming any thing in ancient history.

Again, you seem to have confused some things. Scholars of ancient history (not doctors, and not Egyptologists) have always relied on the NONfiction accounts of the Greeks. Now, it's true that nonscholars forget that the Greeks wrote or that they wrote anything other than the Odyssey and the Iliad and a few plays. But scholars have been translating Greek histories since... well, since the Greeks started writing them sometime around 600 BC (and probably earlier.)

These are the same type of people who say things like "Gulf War Syndrome Doesn't Exist." And "Troy" never existed. The same type who said things like "There's no written historical evidence, outside the bible, to substantiate the bible's claims about things like the mesopotamian flood" (and a half a century later, someone discovers Sumer, ancient Akkadia and the flood tablets).

That's medicine, not history, and the existence of Troy was acutally debateable with scholars on BOTH sides of the issue for centuries. Schliemann just happened to be wealthy enough to go finance digs to find it.

and the Bible never claims a Mesopotamian flood. If you read Genesis carefully, it proclaims a global flood. There's no evidence of a global flood... and meanwhile everyone's been aware (for thousands of years) that the Tigris and Euphrates occasionally have really really big floods.

This list goes on and on. Believe it or not, truth is not solely the purview of the "degreed academia" because they have cornered themselves into unretractable statements.

The problem with folk knowledge is that there's no real depth to the research. In coming to the conclusion about the Dendera inscriptions, how many texts did you read? They show up in other places, too.

In most cases, the ones presenting this "ancient knowledge" only show you one example -- the one that looks closest to what they want to prove.

They don't show you the OTHER pictures and they don't bother telling you what's in the text next to it.

Did you, perhaps, fall victim to someone who lies by presenting only one particular object and masks the truth by pretending there are no others?

Originally posted by Byrd
Did you, perhaps, fall victim to someone who lies by presenting only one particular object and masks the truth by pretending there are no others?

Ummm perhaps you are a bit confused Byrd... I don't think I have seen where Undo has said much either way about the "lightbulbs" LOL I don't even know what she thinks about them

And me I believe I mentioned above I am studying the possibilities and have not yet come to a conclusion...I kinda favor the Goa'uld larva theory anyway. But since EVD DID make a working model... that at least gets my attention...

Looking at his working model though it is obvious that it does NOT produce a lot of actual light... and yes I have heard the "What about the power source" arguments...

But that is exactly why I am doing this search... to find that power source and it won't be conventional... but hey thats a whole nudder story for a nudder day

In the meantime I need to track down what the US Army is doing hunting "treasures" at Nimrud. They got some really awesome stuff. All gold too..

Byrd,

Perhaps sometime in the future, we can continue that discussion. In the meantime, I don't believe much of anything until I find out for myself what it says. So of course, I had to find out what the Dendera light bulb texts say. I don't think it's a lightbulb.

I don't feel like rearguing the rest of the points, as I wouldn't have said those things had I not been confronted with those very arguments in my readings.

Terri Schiavo was killed for being in a persistent vegetative state. So awareness or not, they treat PVS as a death sentence.

Though I often disagree with Byrd's conclusions, I am extremely glad to read them, and have learned a lot by doing so. As to the idea of a global flood, I have seen evidence suggesting that at one time the oceans may have washed over the continents. Possibly due to the gravitational pull of a massive object passing very near the earth. I do agree that taking quotes out of context, and thereby missing the whole story, and then speculating on that partial information is far too common a thing.

Originally posted by BlackGuardXIII
Though I often disagree with Byrd's conclusions, I am extremely glad to read them, and have learned a lot by doing so. As to the idea of a global flood, I have seen evidence suggesting that at one time the oceans may have washed over the continents. Possibly due to the gravitational pull of a massive object passing very near the earth. I do agree that taking quotes out of context, and thereby missing the whole story, and then speculating on that partial information is far too common a thing.

You mean like trying to say that Wormwood is Nibiru? You mean THAT kinda misquoting and out of context? IF I had 10 dollars for everytime somebody took Wormwood out of context, I'd be at least a $100,000-aire. I think it's time somebody did their homework. I'm just not interested in arguing atm. Gotta use my energy in a different direction.

Originally posted by wild_cat
That is a good point you made. However i still believe they had the knowledge of making those buildings. Pulleys and levers had been discovered already so no one knows what types of machines they could have used. The only place that would know how, when or why these buildings were built would be in the libraries of Alexandria and Constantanople, but those buildings were burned down with all the knowledge in them. If those buildings and there documents were still around today then our whole view of ancient civilazations would not be what they are today

I probably shouldn't even be throwing this out there for discussion but I am on the fence in this one. I like to think that the human mind truly is capable of producing ANYTHING it puts its, well, mind to. The creation of these great structures is one of the great mysteries of our time. I would like to think that the leaders of the great nation of Egypt had these built with skilled craftsmen and, well, obviously a TON of slave workers. However, in sticking with what is commonly thought by the majority of historians I find that there are some serious flaws.

First, from what I can gain (taking away the MANY other ideas on this and sticking with the main stream thought) they (the pyramids at Gyza) were built over the lifetimes of 3 Pharaohs. Roughly 100 years. When you really think about this simply from a mathematical point of view we find some monstrous results produced by these builders.

First, how many stones were involved and at roughly what weight per stone? Okay, from what I am gathering there were roughly 6 million to 7 million stones weighing in on average of 3.5 TONS each! Do the math. Even at 100 years it would take the following requirements to have these structures built.

Working 24 hours a day (no night time breaks because then it becomes absolutely impressive) it would take placing a 7,000 pound stone in as nearly a perfect position as they are (I know, there are debates that boy, they are actually off by an inch here and there, anyone hear the theory that thousands of years of exposure can actually shift things?), one would need to be placed every 8 minutes and 30 seconds. This includes the inner structures that created all of the hallways and passages to precision as well.

So, the first step is to question the logic behind the "official" explanations first. It just does not seem possible my friends that these structures were built as most historians like to believe. I don't care how many slaves someone can try and come up with. It would take millions of slaves working out ways to move these massive stones many many miles just to get to the building site let alone placing them on top of one another without mortar of any type.

Just my thoughts. I am researching many of the links provided by none have addressed the basic concept that is presented above. Until something can be provided to dispute the numbers I will have to agree that the Egyptians made claims to these structures well after they were originally built.

That opens up more questions about WHO then could have built them even earlier than our current "history" describes?

That's why the question comes up about ET involvement. I would like to believe that man made these structures without any help from "mythological creatures".

Then again, there are so many writings (both ancient and recent) that refer to beings out of this world visiting us and gifting us with advanced technology that it is a logical option to consider. Just research some of the ancient Indian (the country not Native Americans, though they have some interesting stories to tell too) texts describing wars fought in the air between 'gods' that shoot fire out.

If you want to really get crazy, explore the stories on Sodom and Gomorra and how they were destroyed.

Okay, I have said my crazy piece. Just trying to get to the truth.

Mike

Then again, there are so many writings (both ancient and recent) that refer to beings out of this world visiting us and gifting us with advanced technology

thats funny because I have never read any ancient texts that claim anything close to that
just lots of recent mistranslations that do
perhaps you could provide a link to your claims at some point otherwise its just so much hearsay/rubbish/gospell/bs (delete where applicable)

Originally posted by whylistentome



That opens up more questions about WHO then could have built them even earlier than our current "history" describes?

That's why the question comes up about ET involvement. I would like to believe that man made these structures without any help from "mythological creatures".

Then again, there are so many writings (both ancient and recent) that refer to beings out of this world visiting us and gifting us with advanced technology that it is a logical option to consider. Just research some of the ancient Indian (the country not Native Americans, though they have some interesting stories to tell too) texts describing wars fought in the air between 'gods' that shoot fire out.

If you want to really get crazy, explore the stories on Sodom and Gomorra and how they were destroyed.

Okay, I have said my crazy piece. Just trying to get to the truth.

Mike

Agreed. Sorry to say, but mainstream has gotten so full of itself, that they are now saying that the Great Pyramid was built in the lifetime of one pharaoh, over the course of 25 years. Yep. It's a case of lemming behavior. Mob mentality. If the TPTB say so, it must be true, regardless of any evidence to the contrary. They don't often bring up the fact the outside was completely covered in a white limestone casing as well, when these arguments arise, because that requires a whole new set of problems with few solutions for people who were operating pre-iron age. Yes, pre-iron age. One more time with feeling, PRE-IRON AGE. No wheel. No iron or steel. They did all that (including red granite blocks weighing up to 70 tons -- can anyone say Mohs Hardness Scale? No!?) with copper.

Nevermind that research has proven time and time again, that the ropes snap constantly when attempted by modern man, the wood breaks apart, that there's evidence of lathing (no wheel you say? well darn! then how'd they lathe? denial, it's more than just a river in egypt!), etc.



[edit on 22-9-2006 by undo]

Originally posted by Marduk

Then again, there are so many writings (both ancient and recent) that refer to beings out of this world visiting us and gifting us with advanced technology

thats funny because I have never read any ancient texts that claim anything close to that
just lots of recent mistranslations that do
perhaps you could provide a link to your claims at some point otherwise its just so much hearsay/rubbish/gospell/bs (delete where applicable)

the heavenly boat that took them into the afterlife, was just a figment of some modern man's imagination! cool, does that mean we get to re-interpret the hieroglyphs? apparently, someone interpreted them wrong! *does victory dance*

ra's eye in the form of hathor, didn't really fly around and seek out the people and kill them! whew, that had me worried anyway. thanks to you, i can rest assured that translations of the ancient texts are all wrong! *does the macarena*

isis didn't float over osiris! and so on and so on! wait, have you actually READ any of the ancient texts, or are you just quoting from the mainstream manual of "doh" ?

errr and these advanced beings gave us advanced technology where exactly ?

They did all that (including red granite blocks weighing up to 70 tons

hmmm how many red granite blocks was that exactly Beth ?


[edit on 22-9-2006 by Marduk]

Originally posted by Marduk
errr and these advanced beings gave us advanced technology where exactly ?

They did all that (including red granite blocks weighing up to 70 tons

hmmm how many red granite blocks was that exactly Beth ?

[edit on 22-9-2006 by Marduk]

Thinking Osirieon, several red granite blocks. Want me to find out?

that would be nice
heres the question again
how many red granite blocks weighing 65 tons were used in the construction ?

The temple layout is quite different from other temples as well, with enormous pillars of red Aswan granite (up to 100 tons) and equally massive architraves. THe temple is very simple, but the blocks that are used to built it are enormous, some larger than those used to build the pyramids. Most later temples did not use such enormous stone blocks.

www.phouka.com...

They were convinced that Strabo’s Well lay buried there somewhere, but sadly, they were unable to finance the excavation. Sometime later in 1912 excavations under the direction of Professor Naville of the Egyptian Exploration Fund, uncovered a transverse chamber at the end of which giant granite and sandstone monoliths formed a stone gateway.
“What we discovered is a gigantic construction of about 100 feet in length and sixty in width, built with the most enormous stones that may be seen in Egypt. In the four sides of the enclosure walls are cells, 17 in number, of the height of a man and without ornamentation of any kind. The building itself is divided in into three naves the middle one being wider than those of the sides; the division is made by two colonnades made of huge granite monoliths supporting architraves of equal size”

mergo.livejournal.com...

So, count the number of architraves and columns in the colonnades, and that's probably pretty close to the number of red granite monolithic stones.

Here's an overhead view of it:




So count 10 columns with around 8 architraves. Of course, there could be more, but the two chambers labelled "A" and "B" were not on the same scale and were comprised the addition of sandstone. (possibly an indication that Seti I added the A and B chambers, when he discovered and refurbished the Osirieon and incorporated it into his Temple complex.

Originally posted by undo
The temple layout is quite different from other temples as well, with enormous pillars of red Aswan granite (up to 100 tons) and equally massive architraves. THe temple is very simple, but the blocks that are used to built it are enormous, some larger than those used to build the pyramids.

So, count the number of architraves and columns in the colonnades, and that's probably pretty close to the number of red granite monolithic stones.

...So count 10 columns with around 8 architraves. Of course, there could be more...

Undo,

Unfortunately, your link provides no estimate that can possibly come close to answering Marduk's question, unless you want to assume that each column was formed from a single piece of granite.

Nothing at all about the construction of the architraves (how many stones high the walls were, how many stone slabs for the ceilings, etc.)

So, do you or do you not have this information? What you've given us so far is basically that "some" of the stones are "larger than those used to build the pyramids." The stones in the pyramids are, by and large (no pun intended,) not that large.

Harte

You can see the architraves and their size in proportion to the pillars (columns). You can also see the pillars. Even if cut in half, they would still weigh somewhere in the vicinity of 50 tons each.




This is a cutaway view, which shows the size of the columns and the size of the original architraves in relation to the floor and the water surrounding the raised platform, plus the overlay of the roof.

Professor Naville was the one who claimed the stones were in the vicinity of 100 tons in some cases. Is he lying?