Ahmadinejad: Tomorrow night, Iranians would be delighted hearing good news

What I find myself incapable of comprehending is how my life should be seen - even by me - as more valuable than that of another human being thousands of miles away. Why is my security and safety worth more than that of an Iranian citizen? Why is their security worth more than that of my own? I would rather die than kill another human being. I daresay I would even rather be tortured than to kill someone, even if killing meant saving my own life or someone else's.

Many have argued that even in refraining from violence, death results. However, I would respond by suggesting the possibility that the difference lies in the intent in one's heart and mind. In one case, one's intent is to kill and destroy in order to protect the lives of their countrymen or loved ones, which are held to be more valuable and more a part of them than the lives that are taken. In the other, one's intent is to refrain from taking lives in the belief that all lives are of equal worth and relation, and in the hope that everyone might be spared. The outcome may not be as hoped, obviously, but the intent to spare all through restraint - for me, at least - is preferable to the intent to kill in order to spare only certain people.

That said, I will not judge those who believe violence is necessary, simply because I could easily be completely wrong. If I were to close my mind to the possibility that they are right and that I am wrong, I would lose any justification for the beliefs I profess. Their experiences and logic have formed those beliefs, and the same is true of my own, which makes both equally valid and potentially correct. All one can do is decide for oneself.


Nonetheless, my heart tells me I will feel pain if there is war, and that is all I know.

Originally posted by Mehran
Since the devil(Bush) said he will nuke my country

I don't believe Bush said he wanted to nuke your country, but I do recall comments by YOUR president calling the holocaust a myth and threatening to wipe out Israel.

IMO, the rhetoric is coming from IRAN. Why start trouble? Yes, if there are strategic strikes, it is very likely civilians will lose their lives, but that doesn't stop the brilliant Iranian brain trust from locating facilities near civilian sites. If you want civilians to live, quit using them as shields.

If you keep kicking a bull, eventually you will get gored.


[edit on 12-4-2006 by Eyesofbear]

[edit on 12-4-2006 by Eyesofbear]

[edit on 12-4-2006 by Eyesofbear]

[edit on 12-4-2006 by Eyesofbear]

I'll figure out the quote thing later...sorry about that

Originally posted by B Sage
That is but a radical few, surely you don't believe that is the entire culture. Have you ever known some one, or experienced that culture personally?

It's not just a radical few, but entire nations, such as Saudi Arabia, Pakistan, until recently Afghanistan, etc. I know several muslims that live here in the U.S. and they feel that what goes on in those countries is wrong. It's not the fault of the religion, but those who exploit it...

What have you seen, what have you personally experienced, what part of your opinion has NOT been formed from information delivered by the forms of media?

Well, I guess the documentaries and footage of stonings, beheadings, executions of women on soccer fields in front of children for cheating on their husbands or being disobedient, etc. that I've seen since long before the WoT could be fake, but I highly doubt it. If you have any info that you can share that may prove that I would appreciate seeing it...

The best opinions are formed thru experience not information (corrupted or not) alone... and that of course is my experienced and informed opinion.

I'm sure the general populations there have plenty of good people, and I don't want to see harm befall them. It's the religious leaders and governments that perpetuate the brutality...

So you're saying that we don't live in a democracy? I would say you're right if you are saying that but us just sitting around doing nothing about it doesn't justify this government's existence.

I don't remember the last time we got to vote on military action or foreign policy, do you? We can vote (not that it actually counts) for our leaders based on what we think they will do, but we have no real idea til they've stolen the election and are in office.

I'm sure you'd agree that I'd be quite insane if I said that I could just stop spending money and stop paying taxes but that does not mean that my apology is hollow or isn't sincere. I alone cannot change my society on whole but I can attempt to convince others of trying along with me.

Well, when you come up with any good ideas let me know.

Rumsfeld is a liar, a great liar. Neo-con hawk all the way, if he says it's not going to happen, it's 60/40 that it will.

I dunno about that, I agree he's a liar but looking back on the run up to Iraq, they made their intentions clear. I don't think even they would be stupid enough to try and spring another war on the already weary American people without feeling it out first...



[edit on 12-4-2006 by 27jd]

I think it would be absolutly tragic if while Iran is developing their bomb for "selfdefence" there was a little "accident"

first off We assumed Iran was going for nuclear weapons when we found out they had a secret nuclear program. We still have no evidence that they have specifically broke the NPT other then having this program in the first place. Further more it was in their countries best interests NOT to announce this program because of Iraqs power and israels power in the region when they started this program.

I would also like to add that we had shut down their programs for over a year, finding no evidence of nuclear weapons research, before iran had enough of waiting for nothing and restarted it. This is the big outcry that they are now trying to create nuclear weapons. This is what we call McCarthyism. But if we would like to fall for this AGAIN, like we did with communists in the government, then well we have a war coming. Not only that but we deserve to be at war and such because of our disregard for history.

I will tell you that these history books i use in school are not accurate, and skew facts. Most recently i found my history book trying to display america winning the nuclear race through the entire cold war. This was incorrect since russia developed the first Hydrogen device(not considered a weapon because of size) and then a better type of it before us. The only part we beat them at was creating the Fission Fusion Fission nuclear device. This was all not mentioned. Just that Amercia made the first Hydrogen Bomb in 1953, when russia made it in 1951 actually.

What we are taught in school is not always correct and this was just one of MANY examples. i urge you all to read as many history books as you can and dont just take the history books from high school as fact. these books are inaccurate. (this also goes for other subjects actually such as food science)

but back on topic, other then fear and suspicion can you show me proof that they are pursuing nuclear weapons? the enrichment was that of a percent which would be used for nuclear reactors, which is what they said they were aiming for...isnt that something?

why dont we read inbetween the lines ever? "The US FEARS that iran is pursuing nuclear weapons." "The US and Europe BELIEVE that iran is not trust worthy because of the fact that iran cept its nuclear program secret."
all they are doing is stating their opinions. the same people that told you sadam was looking for nuclear weapon, when he didnt. He had chemical and biological weapons, but no proof of nuclear. Further more we are basing such actions on assumtions...how unbelievably stupid.

we assume they are making weapons, we assume they are going to destroy israel. well i could assume that bush wants to nuke iran because they have made a plan for it, does that mean they will do it? MAYBE, but we dont know. THATS THE SCARY PART, we are basing our actions off of things we know NOTHING about. this is why its so important we dont take actions when we have no idea. we are all behind action against iran yet we are going off of assumtions of leaders that we cant even trust because lets face it, they are more corrupt now then ever.

and im not just incriminating bush, or even the entire bush administration, im not even incriminating our entire government, im incriminating US, all of US. WE are all equally guilty because we do nothing/or not nearly enough about it. You want to point fingers, point them at yourselfs. You made this world, you made it all possible. You took the medias word rather then looked further. You trusted sources like CNN and Fox when they were bought out by big business, you trusted millionaires bought out by shady business when they ran for government. You trusted people who would play both sides of the table just to get your votes. YOUR at fault for this. dont go blaming iran for things we let happen.

WE went in there and tried to get rid of the iranian government, instilling a another pro american government back in history. WE made the plan after WW1 that screwed germany allowing hilter to come into power. WE were at the root of such things. WE did what we were told, rather then looking into ourselves. WE are to blame.

So what are you going to do, are you going to continue to point fingers at whos fault it is? whos right and whos wrong? or are you going to start figuring out why, why are they doing this. start wondering where these politicans alliances stand. further more are you going to continue to point fingers at eachother while big business continues to take over our entire country? they own your government, your appliances, your food, your homes, your news, your entertainment....they own you. so what are you going to do, let them start another war to benefit them? thats what you need to figure out, are you going to take the word of people who own everything in your life, solely to make a profit, without any moral fiber?

This war is going to be messy. Check out the Military Weapons post I made andthat was circa 1996. Iran can devastate the Oil supply to America and send the price up over at least 150/ barrel. Thats peak oil folks. Bush is a dummy. I don't think he knows the meaning of the words Live and Let Live.

America is being hijacked. Pretty soon it will be a military police state. I'm sorry to say it but it's best for the world if America is defeated. They've brought this war on. They have already casted the first stone.

Well, I don't really call that good news but...
I am iranian to, and its just a shame, that such a once mighty empire
destroyed itself with this, and whos gonna suffer? yes, the people!
It are always the people who suffer from the deeds of their government, and especially Persia!
why don't they just nuke the (sorry) friggin government (including the Khomeni)! They are making mass destruction weapons! Instead of helping the people, making homes, regaining it all after the horrible war 20 years ago... and just make iran as it was in the early days, when iran was atleast respected!
*sigh* I'm just ashamed..

- MB

First,
I am not "assuming" they are making weapons. I don't agree with entering another military action, costing BILLIONS of dollars, and human lives. As far as who is to blame, that is a bit different. Iran has a president that has made statements to the effect that Israel should be blown off the map or relocated to Europe at the very least. If there is an assumption here, it is that you have a radical president of a country full of religious zealots who have a giant hard-on for America and anyone who sides with us. Imagine if we took children and trained them to be human shields or suicide bombers for the glory of our God? This is all fueled by hatred and I truly have a concern that Iran is not above acquiring and using nuclear technology to creat a weapon capable of destroying anyone and anything American. While I don't want war or military actions, I don't want nuclear technology in the hands of crazy or angry religious zealots.
If IRAN doesn't conform to the UN's NPT, they should be dealt with swiftly and efficiently.
The deficit climbs and this will only add to it. We are way past utilizing our grandchildren's futures to pay for our current mismanagement.

we should all be sincerely sorry since its our faults. we dont represent democracy, we may say we fight for it on some other part of the globe, but we dont live it on anyday.

i dont believe in living in a republic because it is a failed experiment. this has shown through time. I believe in a form of democracy. But dont confuse what im saying here, i am not a democrat nor could i vote for one. They do not represent democracy, because they are not for the people anymore. They are for business, republicans are for business.

To say your NOT at fault for what our government does is to try and deny your responsiblity as an american. Thats one thing this country lacks responsiblity. Nobody wants to take fault for their actions anymore. Dont think so, look at the court cases nowndays. Everyone wants some one else to blame for their own faults. This situation is no different. Its not our fault for what the government did in the past, and what they are going to do. Sure we voted them in and watched, did nothing, then went on with our lives while they blatently did crimes, but its not OUR fault.

Lets start to take responsibility, so we can start to take action. That what i said by keep pointing fingers at eachother, because you refuse to let the blame fall on you. It dividing you on all fronts. Let it continue you and it will criple this nation and its ability to thrive. Since you continue to deny responsiblity for your actions or lack there of, you continue to divide this nation by your constant pointing of fingers and hollow blaming of other people.

It is our faults, and we need to take responsibility so we can move on and start to make progress, take action. Until then you will just continue to look for some one to blame so you can justify your reason to do nothing and sit by.

as for eyesofbear, go back and read history, what weve done in iran. Remember the CIA opperations to overthrow their government? read up and find out why they hate us, why they arent fighting anybody that sides with us, rather anybody that sides with israel, which is mainly us. They arent fighting those who alliance themselves with us, they are fighting those who alliance themselves with israel. but thats another topic for another time.

[edit on 12-4-2006 by grimreaper797]

Grim,
I do agree, we are a "blameless" society and that may be the root of all our troubles. I still don't believe we will "nuke" Iran, but we need to stop this problem before it becomes a much bigger problem. The entire world is moving closer to the "endgame", and the middle east is certainly the hot spot at this time.

It is simple. You can't stand up and continue to diss America, their allies, Israel, and wave the sword unless you are prepared to use it.

www.globalsecurity.org...
it even has a timeline countdownclock

simply put, you have to find the REASON for the problem, before you can identify the problem. you want to know why iran hates america so much, because the CIA funded a military Coup to overthrow the democratically elected government in iran in the 1953. This led to the revolution in 1979. We installed a government that was pro-us and oppressive. I think any of us would be a bit mad if the same happened to us in the US.

Im not taking the stand point of an american citizen, im taking the stand point of a human being. Since i take that stand point i cannot blame them for being angry because of everything we caused them.

The reason iran is an islamic republic is our fault because of what we did. the people needed change because of what we instilled in iran, and they are the ones who showed up. thats what Hitler did, we put germany into a major jam, and hitler promised them a thriving nation and change. They took it gladly, and look what happen.

this revolution was followed by iraq-iran war. again caused uncertainty. the belief that iran was weak enough to invade was most likely because a new government installed.

can you see how they would want to blame us for whats happened?

Originally posted by 27jd
It's not the fault of the religion, but those who exploit it...

I know some people in power here in the U.S. that do that kind of thing.

Well, I guess the documentaries and footage of stonings, beheadings, executions of women on soccer fields in front of children for cheating on their husbands or being disobedient, etc. that I've seen since long before the WoT could be fake, but I highly doubt it. If you have any info that you can share that may prove that I would appreciate seeing it...

Well, I can't prove to you that the entire society is not as brutal as you think it may be. But I can tell you that if the society/culture was THAT terrible that it would have wiped itself out and the countries would be engaged in wars with their neighbors constantly. But for the most part the entire culture has been open to westernization... much more than we have been open to accepting their culture. You wouldn't judge Irish culture by the IRA would you? Basically, haha... you have no right to judge, last time I checked we don't have a Utopia here in the Great Satan so we shouldn't go annihilating other cultures just because they make a weapon that makes them off-limits for future invasion by us, pretty cut and dry there.

I'm sure the general populations there have plenty of good people, and I don't want to see harm befall them. It's the religious leaders and governments that perpetuate the brutality...

Yep, just like here.

I don't remember the last time we got to vote on military action or foreign policy, do you? We can vote (not that it actually counts) for our leaders based on what we think they will do, but we have no real idea til they've stolen the election and are in office.

Exactly.

Well, when you come up with any good ideas let me know.

Seriously, I'm trying to think of something but I got nothing... We're in this pretty deep.

B. Sage

Originally posted by sweatmonicaIdo

Originally posted by Animalmother
You can accuse us of hypocracy, perhaps because it has been plastered into your brain, but the fact remains, we have the upper hand, and WE call the shots.

[edit on 11-4-2006 by Animalmother]

[edit on 11-4-2006 by Animalmother]

Its still hypocracy.

Is it trying to be a BULLY? Without breaking a sweat, we could whipe YOUR country off the face of the planet (do not even try to contest it. also, pass that on to Ahmadinejad).

Doesn't make you a hero if you do. Not something to take pride in, sick boy.

Think about how stupid what you are saying is. If you were constantly beat down by a bully, would you expect yourself to continue to let them "call the shots?"

Don't reply (i won't even read your reply), just think about it. Think about it CAREFULLY. I won't even look back.

well Ill reply for the readers-my point is, they dont have a choice. They cannot stand up to defend themselves, because they will get severely beat down and that is just a cold hard fact. They can try, but they will be miles before where they started. Iran is just trying to be a martyr and test the west at the expense of everyone living within it. (the whole world actually)

Originally posted by B Sage
I know some people in power here in the U.S. that do that kind of thing.

Sure, but not on the same level. At least they try and create the illusion of equality and tolerance for other beliefs.

Well, I can't prove to you that the entire society is not as brutal as you think it may be. But I can tell you that if the society/culture was THAT terrible that it would have wiped itself out and the countries would be engaged in wars with their neighbors constantly.

Um, they pretty much are. They're even at war with themselves (sunni vs. shia).

But for the most part the entire culture has been open to westernization... much more than we have been open to accepting their culture.

Muslims here are not treated badly at all. We would never allow them to engage in some of the more brutal aspects of Islam as they do in their countries, but they are accepted here. Again, I have muslim friends and I would never treat a muslim badly just for being a muslim.

You wouldn't judge Irish culture by the IRA would you?

Nope. And I don't judge muslims by their terrorist groups, never said I did.

Basically, haha... you have no right to judge, last time I checked we don't have a Utopia here in the Great Satan

You're right, there's no such thing as a perfect society, but it's gonna be hard IMO to co-exist with the following mentality:

Originally posted by dana2006
atleast muslims kill their daughters if they become whores. opposite to you, westerners encourage them to be whores, and become proud of them when they start whoring when they are 12 years old at school.

www.abovetopsecret.com...

That is from an arab ATS member on another thread.

so we shouldn't go annihilating other cultures just because they make a weapon that makes them off-limits for future invasion by us, pretty cut and dry there.

I never said we should annihilate anybody, but I don't think nukes and the above mentality will make good bed fellows.

Yep, just like here.

When was the last time a father was permitted by law to murder his daughter for being a "whore" here? When was the last time a women who was not escorted by a man arrested or worse here? When was the last time anybody here had their hand cut off for stealing?

Seriously, I'm trying to think of something but I got nothing... We're in this pretty deep.

We've always been pretty deep in one thing or another, it's the way of the world I guess.

[edit on 12-4-2006 by 27jd]

your right we dont punish those people who do crimes like stealing for a hand, or killing a murderer. Is that why we have some of the worst crime rates in the world?
news.bbc.co.uk...

but yea our justice system isnt any less screwed up then theirs. read freakonomics. youll find that a petty punishment is worse then no punishment. you use a petty punishment and more people tend to deal with it because the price for not feeling guilty outweighs the price of the punishment. A heavy punishment tends to tell them how bad something is. getting probation and getting you hand cut off sends a very different message. one says well its bad, but not to the extent of really punishable, so youll notice petty theif is pretty high. not saying cut off peoples hands, but the worse the punishment, the less likely people are to commit the crime.

Originally posted by grimreaper797
your right we dont punish those people who do crimes like stealing for a hand, or killing a murderer. Is that why we have some of the worst crime rates in the world?

We do kill murderers, but we take the time to make sure they're guilty.

but yea our justice system isnt any less screwed up then theirs.

Uh, yes it is. Way less.

A heavy punishment tends to tell them how bad something is. getting probation and getting you hand cut off sends a very different message. one says well its bad, but not to the extent of really punishable, so youll notice petty theif is pretty high. not saying cut off peoples hands, but the worse the punishment, the less likely people are to commit the crime.

What point are you making if you don't agree with cutting off hands for stealing yourself? I'm sure you've stolen, do you think it was worthy of having your hand cut off when you did? Sure people may be less likely to do it in some cases, but it still happens. And what if your neighbor didn't like you and decided to accuse you of stealing something from him/her? Your hand would be on the chopping block. It's easy to sit here in the U.S. and play devil's advocate, but it would be different if you were suddenly thrust into the culture you're blindly defending, just to go against the grain I would guess.

well obviously our justice system is more advanced. yes its easier to prove or disprove a crime, but its not any less screwed up then theirs. theirs is too harsh, and we have no idea how to punish criminals.

Many states dont even use the death penalty, others have it, but hardly use it. We cut deals with murders. Justice is far from served.

I didnt agree with cutting off hands, but having a harder jail sentence or bigger fine would be great. their way of punishment i dont necessarily agree with, but the degree of it which is used i do. I have not stolen, because i have far too much pride to(dont start making judgements about people) Those who steal deserve whatever punishment will get it through to them to never steal again. This is done by the majority results. The majority of results says our punishments arent stiff enough because we continue to steal and such. So in that case up the punishment. I say up the fines, rather then jail. Shoot them way up so that people get the idea, you want to steal something? your gunna lose BIG. That way they think about it, if its worth the fine and probation.

why do people make fun of irans criminal system?, if someone killed your mother or raped her (god forbid) wouldnt you want that person to be hanged?, my bad thats not the case now isn't?, since CNN or FOX say its annicent people than it must be misleading for me to say right?.