ATS: AT&T Narus Collaboration Sent Your Private Internet Communications to The NSA

Originally posted by SkepticOverlord
Given this news release:
NARUS APPOINTS FORMER DEPUTY DIRECTOR OF THE NATIONAL SECURITY AGENCY TO ITS BOARD OF DIRECTORS

Uh oh...

It's probably as meaningless as Marvin Bush being on the board of Securacom, the co. that provided electronic security for the WTC and United Airlines at Dulles up to, what, 2000? Just a coincidence, I'm sure.

I'm not surprised. Its pretty sickening, but I have suspected this and much more blatant violations of our civil rights are going on under our noses.

This just came to light. Which begs the question, just how much worse and intrusive is the government getting? I am willing to bet that everyone from banks and credit card companies to even medical entities are more than likely also funneling our data to the government.

It remindes me what happend 7 years ago with the "scandal" about Microsoft insterting a keylog in Windows 98 SE that would bring datas straight to NSA.

Somehow I'm not surprised that AT&T is sending data to NSA. We've heard rumours all the time also for Yahoo and even Google and personaly I think that being watched from NSA through another puppet part of the show doesn't change anything. Worst then this can't be...

sorry for the all caps, but that was the town cryer, calling all horses...

Benevolent Heretic and I have discovered a blatant attempt to control the flow of info in Amerika... using censored Google searches...

on this thread:temporary Media Blackout
we discovered that it is permanent...
Google searches will come up with different results (totally) based upon where you are in the world (we assume it is just america at this point)

If you want a test to see if your country is included in this info blackout then check the thread, and see what search results you get...

(info: we both got totally different search results from going to the very same link)

UPDATE: google admitted it, and claimed it was an honest error...
yeah right... monkeys and butts folks... monkeys and butts...

[edit on 12-4-2006 by LazarusTheLong]

[edit on 12-4-2006 by LazarusTheLong]

OK, I'm a bit behind in my ATS reading...(Life gettin' in the way, ya know...)

I don't think this has been posted here yet:

...

Narus executives confirm AT&T is a customer but say they do not know how the telecommunications giant uses its software. ``Once our customers buy our product, it's relatively opaque to us,'' said Steve Bannerman, vice president of marketing.

Narus CEO Greg Oslan said the company's software is designed to allow carriers to monitor all Internet traffic, including Web searches, e-mail content and attachments, and Internet phone calls.

...

Narus was founded in 1997 and has more than 100 employees around the globe. Some of the world's largest phone and Internet carriers have signed up as Narus customers, including T-Mobile, U.S. Cellular, Brasil Telecom, Korea Telecom, Telecom Egypt, Saudi Telecom and Shanghai Telecom, according to the company.

Arnold Ness, chief technical officer of IBM's Americas Next Generation Network Team, said Narus' ability to intercept traffic -- the capability allegedly used by the NSA -- is critical to U.S. carriers that must comply with a federal mandate to be able to intercept digital traffic by next April.

More...

Source.

What do you want to bet AT&T ain't the only one in bed with the NSA?

I find Ness and Bannerman's statements revealing...

What a crock...

I was not surprised at all when I read all of this. I was sick to my stomach though........This is the same feeling I got when I first started checking out the Patriot Act.

Good Work here at ATS for keeping us informed.

More, in relation to the Internet:
ISP Snooping Gaining Support

I would advice possibly investing in one of these?

I think it is inevitable that politicians would consider giving 1984 a try.







seekerof

I refuse to go into hiding for exercising my Constitutional right to free speech. Speaking out against the government's questionable, possibly even illegal, actions is an inherent right, in fact I believe it is a responsibility, of all American citizens.

What good is living in this country if I can't pass on to my son the same rights and opportunities that my Dad fought for? For all my desires that peace should reign supreme, I will fight for those same rights so that my son doesn't inherit an abomination of a country that has succeeded in silencing the voice of the people, or forcing those who would speak out to resort to hiding their whereabouts in order to do so.

What good is peace on those terms? We might as well all turn ourselves in for programming under those circumstances.

Seekerof, I know you have the best interests of the online community at heart, and I applaud that. I just don't want to let the restrictions placed on free speech by the government carry the day over the Constitutional rights of the good citizens of the United States of America.

If that puts me in the crosshairs, so be it. I will go down fighting to see that my son lives in a free country ruled by the will of the people.

They are just trying to protect us from the perverts that work at the department of homeland security.

Originally posted by soficrow
And once you have the truth, and awareness, what then? What can one do if one's vote is meaningless?

The vote isn't meaningless. Not everyone will do this stuff if they are in office. The problem is, the people, in the US, are so stupid, that they don't care about this stuff even if they find out about it.

The problem is, there's no way to get this information out there, and at least scare the crooks in government into thinking twice before doing this sort of stuff, because the "new media" isn' t a well vetted newsource.

And even if it was, what would it matter if a bunch of ostriches with their heads in the sand can vote down the original submission on this matter!!!

Who's going to cover this story in the media? FOX? Couric? No one can cover it, and no one would watch a news broadcast talking about servers and information distribution and court cases. That doesn't look entertaining. Much better to have 'evil immigrants' marching in the streets.

IAF101
Now with the NARUS 'semantic' network scanning that the NSA is supposed to be using they not only know who goes out and who goes in they also know where their going, what they're talking about and whom they’re talking too! The NSA could do this before too mind you, but this is the first time we know that they are doing this en-masse.

See, it seems like part of the problem is that these things are so controlled and "informative" (and they have to be because they are networks of information), that it might not even be possible to have 'private' unsnooped conversations with them. And as time progresses, the tech will allways make it ultimately easier for the BTOs to get the information, and the stuff that gets routed over these networks will grow, from usenet posts and emails a decade ago, to html, to rss feeds to cell traffic to tv shows, to godknows what.
Its almost as if there's nothing that can be done about it, and this sort of stuff is so beyond our normal comprehension, that we simply can't deal with it. No matter what the information is flitting about, can easily be picked up, will be picked up, and it seems 'wrong' to us, but its going to become a constant, a basic feature of life.

The backdoor that MS had on their OS was supposedly meant to be used as "remote assistance"[/qote]
"Back Orifice" i beleive it was nicknamed in the vernacular. I was thinking more of how they were putting stuff into the computers that lets them identify them while they are connected to the internet, beyond an IP, to track legit versions of windows, etc.

but how are people going to scan all their hardware for any in-built surveillance equipment?

And it might not even be legal to remove any such devices anyway, in the future. Want to use 'our' highways? Get insurance, get a license, submit to searches. Want to use 'our' internet? Use a reporting chip, be registered.

They only way to make them stop is if the govt asks them to stop. No class action suit will cripple the NSA

So you don't think that it can 'slow them down' and make the operation not worth it?
ALso, i guess that if enough people knew about the problem and took that encrypting action, well, having that many people aware of it in the first place would be a solution anyway.

news.com.com...

The San Francisco-based advocacy group said on Friday that the Bush administration had objected to it including some internal AT&T documents with a scheduled court filing because the information may be classified.

What? That means that these people at AT&T have top secret clearance no? In order to read the documents they need it.

People (that's us) argued that "it's not so bad! They're trying to catch terrorists! They're doing it to protect us." The people, (that's us) argued that this invasion of privacy does not affect us personally, so we don't have to be concerned about it. And besides, it's for a good cause. Terrorism! Oooga-Boooga!

This line is not going to work though. The public is clearly interested in national security as the issue. So long as these things are legal, people aren't going to put up much of a fight. In the above case you reference, it was international calls. Here, its different, its bulk spying on the american public, and they are trying to cover it up and keep it out of the news by saying that everything is classified. People will allow some bending of the rules wrt national security. Tying this up with the whole 'there is no terrorism, its not a threat' idea classes it as 'crazy' to the public, and they won't pay attention to it. THe public, and the media, doesn't 'do' conspiracy.
So it has to be something that is clearly illegal, liek the allegations made in this lawsuit.
Thats another part of the problem, its a lawsuit, and its preliminary. And if it takes too long to get resolved, or to show that the government was doing this, then there'll've been enough time to get the message out that its necessary, that it saves lives, and that its not really unconsitutional, ie, the spin.

soficrow
Maybe we need to learn to speak in code to protect our privacy. Onward, back to Babylon.

OSIRIS IS A BLACK GOD!

Can you talk about this in ways and with language that us neophytes can understand?

We need initiation into the information cabal! Where's the chicken guts to tie our hands up with??

Astronomer-68
If enough people start using encryption the present eavsdropping situation will largely go away.

Is it possible to flood these processing points with large encrypted messages? Or is that illegal hacking?

notclever
How about some type of spam that carries a truly useful message

Or large volumes of encrypted gibberish spam?

springer
Elections won't fix this, like I said, IF this gets to the Supreme Court (it most likely won't) AND the good team wins the day, it won't change a dam thing, they will simply hide their activity and keep right on snooping. It's so easy it's child's play.

And its especially easy when, even if caught (and this was only discovered because a guy on the inside spoke out), the media isn't telling anyone. Anyone I've talked to since this thread came out, they'd never heard of this issue. And things are so polarized in the country right now, that anything critical of the government is viewed as 'evil liberal bin ladin sympathizers'.

We're ignorant. We're angry. And we've got no power. This is a bad situation for a society to be in.

Oh and we're paranoid.

"....I'm not surprised. Its pretty sickening, but I have suspected this and much more blatant violations of our civil rights are going on under our noses."

REPLY: Civil rights have nothing to do with this discussion; the only rights we have are those stated in the Bill of Rights. Geez....

I just knew that at least one person would blame the president, and also that more than one would bring up the Patriot Act. Do the research:
It was the previous president and vice-president that authorized the use of "Eschelon" and "Carnovore" back in the mid-90's, and it was their administration that used the info for personal reasons and gain. Google both of them and pepare for many hours of reading.

EVERY SINGLE ITEM in the Patriot Act has been in existance for years, many since the 1940's, but simply were put under one act.

AT&T and Domestic Spying

The lawsuit seeks damages on behalf of a large number of AT&T customers, which could provide the company with a strong incentive to re-evaluate its policies. But even without the suit, AT&T has a reason to worry if it is participating in illegal domestic spying. In the age of unfettered communication, no company should want to get a reputation for allowing the government to listen in on its customers' phone calls, read their e-mail and monitor their Web activity without the requisite legal showing.

Mainstream news is covering this more and more.

Let's keep the buzz-level up.

Originally posted by SkepticOverlord
AT&T and Domestic Spying

...AT&T has a reason to worry if it is participating in illegal domestic spying. ...no company should want to get a reputation for allowing the government to listen in on its customers' phone calls, read their e-mail and monitor their Web activity without the requisite legal showing.

No kidding.

Mainstream news is covering this more and more.

Let's keep the buzz-level up.

Okay.

Bump.

I've been making it a point to start discussions about this issue at my workplace and at my college.

Early results are not encouraging. The most common response to this specific issue is; "So,...I'm not doing anything wrong." Oddly enough, one person with that response was completely incensed about cameras at roadway intersections...???...

So then I ask, what about the slow erosion of privacy and protection from unreasonable search and seizure? Uh oh, that question generally produces either an uncomprehending blank look; or a smirk and eye-roll as if to say.."Oh, you're one of those nuts, huh?"

I think the main impediment to realizing any true change in social awareness is this culture's manic pursuit of "immediate gratification". If it's not rightinfrontofusrightnow,flashing,ringing,promising,....it doesn't exist.

So, any ideas how to get this issue (or any other issue) in front of a jaded, inattentive audience long enough to make an imp...."Oooh look, American Idol's on!!...gotta' run!.." I hope that illustrates my point.

NC

Emails with "Viagra" are filtered out.

Beating Bush's NSA e-mail surveillance simple. According to NSA sources, there is a simple method to avoid having one's e-mail captured by NSA Internet filters that have been installed within major Internet exchanges, such as the AT&T facility in San Francisco, which is the subject of a class action suit against AT&T. By typing "Viagra" or "Cialis" in the message text, the filters will automatically identify the e-mail as spam and ignore it.

Of course, if you're emailing to people who use spam filters, they may not get their email. But for those of us who use Mailwasher and DON'T filter out junk email, this may be a viable option. At least for a while.

Just trying to see the bright side of the situation. I admit it's dark in here but that's one little light...

We should all realize that this medium is not secure, never was. The NSA can and will, regardless of any orders to the contrary, continue to spy on Americans. There are no party lines here, as has been stated by several people herein.

Big Brother is here for the unforseeable future. Take simple precautions. For the moment that's all we can do.

Here is a group of articles with links - worth reading.

Ignorance and Internet Bliss: Intelligent networks threaten the future of the internet

Originally posted by Astronomer68
NSA's equipment doesn't care if the traffic it sees is domestic or international the traffic goes through a series of keyword and semantics combs looking for whatever it is the NSA has designated as traffic of interest. If the equipment detects such traffic it is analized by more specific, more sensitive filters such as specific originators or addressees, specific text dealing with a key target area or target subject, etc. When the traffic triggers a score higher than a preset value (which means that several filters have looked at it and determined it to be of potential interest) then the traffic is shunted into other, more specialized equipment at a different location where it is again analized by automated equipment. (Note, by this time 99.99+ percent of the traffic has been rejected as not of interest.) Only if the traffic continues to register a high score will it be logged and recorded for potential human scanning and/or specialized analysis. There is simply far too much traffic to get a human involved unless the traffic is worthy of the time & expense involved.

[edit on 10-4-2006 by Astronomer68]

Yes but by analyzing the electronic transmissions in the first place the NSA is breaking the law. The only capacity the US Intelligence agencies have to spy on US citizens legally is by warrant. They have free reign to commit international espionage only.

Not even AT&T can sift through it.

Here's an interesting twist to add to this story...

www.tpmcafe.com...

Congress is going to hand the operation of the Internet over to AT&T, Verizon and Comcast. Democrats are helping. It's a shame.

Don’t look now, but the House Commerce Committee next Wednesday is likely to vote to turn control of the Internet over to AT&T, Verizon, Comcast, Time Warner and what’s left of the telecommunications industry. It will be one of those stories the MSM writes about as “little noticed” because they haven’t covered it.

SkepticOverlord I agree this news is extremely important to the future of the Internet and I side with those wanting to keep the net "dumb". It will serve only commercial provider interests and big buck users to go to a "smart" Internet, but at the same time it will penalize all who do not pay for better, faster throughput. It would not be much of change (if the smart Internet is implemented) to go ahead and adopt the military/government message precedence system in its entirety.

ImplementOfWar as long as NSA is restricted to monitoring only international traffic I have no problem with what they are doing. However, it would be a trivial matter that could be dealt with remotely, to change their filters to sort through essentially all traffic. I would be very much against that kind of snooping and would, on principle, be forced to adopt encryption. I'm not too worried about it just now because NSA does not have the resources to monitor everything--their systems would bog down and something potentially very important could be lost as a result.

[edit on 24-4-2006 by Astronomer70]

[edit on 24-4-2006 by Astronomer70]