Lost Gospel Revealed; Says Jesus Asked Judas to Betray Him

Originally posted by junglejake

Originally posted by periwinkle blue
That which is regarded as the Bible, specifically the New Testament.... is the result of SELECTION by the religious heirarchy ages ago. Numerous writings that did not fit with the desired dogma were discarded, repressed or destroyed.

By who? And when? And no quoting the Da Vinci Code as evidence that this is true

The Council of Nicea in 325, for one.

Most of the manuscripts that did not make it into the Bible were 'gnostic' in nature or of doubtful authorship. It was very common to call a document the Gospel of such and such in order to gain credibility and or/in honor of one of the Apostles or someone else...... just who wrote the Gospel of Judas? He died very shortly after the betrayal and BEFORE the resurrection! So any mention of the risen Christ would prove it to be a fake! It is no doubt a very old fake but I believe a fake (like all gnostic documents) none the less..........

Originally posted by Prove_it
Which death???

A. According to Matthew- "I've sinned," he said, "for I've betrayed innocent blood."
"What's that to us?" they replied. "That's your responsibility." [27:4]
So Judas threw the money into the temple and left. Then he went away and hanged himself. [27:5]

B. According to Acts (Luke)- [1:15-16] "He was one of our number and shared in this ministry." [1:17] (With the reward he got for his wickedness, Judas bought a field; there he fell headlong, his body burst open and all his intestines spilled out. [1:18]

The two versions are taken from the New International Version (NIV) of the Bible

Mod Edit: Fixed Quote Tags.
[edit on 6/4/2006 by Mirthful Me]

Mmm, Matthew and luke can't keep the same story.

I never quite got why each of them retold the story of the j-man from their own viewpoint. I think they should have colaborated and just made one story.

Theologicaly you could interpit this as well, the J-man might be perfect. Who ever said his deciples were?

Originally posted by FlyersFan
I'll ask again ....

Christ said that it would be better for the person who betrayed him
to never have been born.

So which is it .... Is the Judas Gospel true which makes Christ a liar and a
deciever ..... Or is the Judas Gospel just a work of fiction entertainment for
those of the year 300???

It has to be one or the other.

[edit on 4/7/2006 by FlyersFan]

Maybe Christ said "it would be better for the person who betrayed him to never have been born" , because that person would have to suffer a great deal as a result. After the "betrayal" of Jesus, Judas had to live with the fact that his words caused Jesus's death. He also had to live with people calling him a traitor, and potentially suffer physical attacks. His reputation was ruined, and his name became a symbol for evil and hate.

Don't some of us say about terribly disabled people "it would have been better had they never been born" out of pity?

When someone is destined to live in pain and suffering, sometimes it would have been better had they never been born. That way they would not have to suffer. It all depends on how you interpret the information.

Originally posted by junglejake
Prot0n, there are two things to consider in this. First, at the time the Bible was written, there was an oral tradition to history. Today, we do not have this tradition. Many people are literate, and there is no need for memorization as we can just reference the book we're quoting from or getting information from. In Jesus' time, there were Rabbis who had the entire Old Testament memorized. You could give them a chapter and verse, and they could recite it from memory. Accurately. Today, that has been lost. It is no longer necessary.

Ok, but that doesn't answer the question. Which is right? We have both claiming to be the truth. Both roughly 2000 years old. Both that have certain text's ommited or added by choice of what was *thought* to be right. Both that have been mistranslated in numerous spot's, or have had whole new verses added into them hundreds of years after the first text.

The idea (has) been around a while though, wasn't that the basis of the first half of ''the last temptation of Christ''.

Yes. I have seen the Film & Read the book - I distinctly remember that it was a Plot point in the book "The Last Temptation of Christ" (Yes, I know that this is a Fictional book as well) - that Judas was actually a very loyal/devoted Apostle - that Jesus asked him to perform what must have been that excruciating task.

This document is AUTHENTICALLY 1700 years old - people are disputing its Validity because they don't LIKE the Content. Heck we should all just WRITE OUR OWN BIBLES & come up with
OUR OWN CHRISTIANITIES in that case! Is it so hard to believe that Jesus KNEW that it had to be done - that he would have to eventually face his main Detractors Personally & that he had chosen Judas do it when he was Ready - so that it would be on HIS terms?

ZeroTolerance - what is wrong with thinking that Jesus was an "Enlightened Man"? Should we not follow Jesus' example & try to become Enlightened ourselves? What is more beneficial to us personally & to society as a whole - what brings Salvation - to Worship Christ as a God (or Son of God in this case) - or to follow his Teachings? Perhaps both?!!

[edit on 7-4-2006 by Seraphim_Serpente]

It makes me wonder where this will lead?

My personal view of this, and the endless retelling of Biblical events, by obviously un-biblical organizations is, it's the plan.

Think of the Tiger Trap.

A simple Pit dug to insnare the prey.

It is covered up by multilayered weavings of "Camo" (Spin), which resembles the natural enviroment. It leaves the prey thinking this is real, and safe to proceed

One step, Two steps, All is okay, and then the fall, and the prey is captured.

Christ had a Kid and was married.
Christ did not die, but was drugged.
God is you, you are God
Eve ate an apple
And my favorite, Christians take $#!+ from the enemy.

This list could go on and on.

It seems now the media bombard us daily of this or that biblcial text, or strange notions that interweave some vast mystery, suggesting everthing but the truth is plausable, and in the end, believable.

The truth is just too difficult to believe, since all it takes is faith.

We have the facts, and today its Hero Judas. Sounds like a Satanic Trap to me, but oh yeah, that is the plan

The next thing you know is you are, TRAPPED, and ENSNARED.

www9.nationalgeographic.com...

I did not see any link to this previously, so here's National Geographic's page on the Judas Scam, I mean Scheme, sorry Fable, no, sorry, Story.

Ciao

And to Jazz_ psyker who noted


"Mmm, Matthew and luke can't keep the same story.

I never quite got why each of them retold the story of the j-man from their own viewpoint. I think they should have colaborated and just made one story."

Matthew was a simple person, with a simple life.

Luke was a doctor and had an good understanding of medical matters. It is seen throughtout his writings with simple remarks denoting medical complexities.

I do not know if this explains things for you completely, but for the Text aspect, it should let you know why the terms and detail differ as they do.

But to your other point of why they did not colaborate, I offer this. If I am not mistaken, Matthew departed Israel with Mary, and Joseph of Aramathea, who was Mary's closet kin, and returned to Glastonbury, England. It is here, at what is suggested to be the first church, that Mary's Husband, Joseph, and a Young Christ built for Mary, during the "Missing" Years of Christ the answer maybe.

Mary's Grave is there, along with several apostles and one suggested to be Matthew's. Luke remained in Israel and wrote Paul's/Saul's messages to the churches. I am not certain if he went to Rome with Paul or even got to England, as Paul did during his Roman confinement. So sitting down over a brew and colaborating, was not likely to have occured.

Hope it helps you with those questions.

Ciao

[edit on 7-4-2006 by Shane]

[edit on 7-4-2006 by Shane]

[edit on 7-4-2006 by Shane]

Christ had a Kid and was Married.

Plausible.

Christ did not Die (on the Cross I gather), but was Drugged.

Plausible. Does it really matter?

God is you, you are God.

Sure - why not? Wasn't this Christ's Message - what he was trying to get at & so we should all act appropriately = Love each other & behave Righteously. Hey does THIS ring a bell:

Luke 17:21-> The Kingdom of God is WITHIN YOU.

Ahhh... How quickly we forget!

[edit on 7-4-2006 by Seraphim_Serpente]

[edit on 7-4-2006 by Seraphim_Serpente]

[edit on 7-4-2006 by Seraphim_Serpente]

Originally posted by jazz_psyker

Mmm, Matthew and luke can't keep the same story.

I never quite got why each of them retold the story of the j-man from their own viewpoint. I think they should have colaborated and just made one story.

That's because the disciples are not the author's of those to gospels. The authors are unknown to this day.

Originally posted by TheBandit795

Originally posted by jazz_psyker

Mmm, Matthew and luke can't keep the same story.

I never quite got why each of them retold the story of the j-man from their own viewpoint. I think they should have colaborated and just made one story.

That's because the disciples are not the author's of those to gospels. The authors are unknown to this day.

Thank you for saying this!!

And to the other poster, I'm sorry but we now know where Mary is buried?? That is news to me

also, junglejake, you mention that jesus' message was revolutionary but hasnt other documents from the time period shown us that it wasnt?

i havent read the thing and i'm waiting for the the show to come on but hopefully, if anything this will encourage people to be a little bit more curious about their own religion and ask more questions.

Originally posted by Seraphim_Serpente
This document is AUTHENTICALLY 1700 years old - people are disputing its Validity because they don't LIKE the Content. Heck we should all just WRITE OUR OWN BIBLES & come up with

This document has nothing to do with Christianity, have you even read it? There are entire concepts in this document that solely belong to the Gnostic faith, such as Nebro, Saklas, and the immortal realm of Barbelo. This is in no way a Christian document; it is simply another opportunity for the Christian haters of the world to take a swipe at the Christian faith…

Now if the gnostics want to add this to their scriptures is an entirely different subject.

By the way if you all want to say that this document is so correct compared to the rest of the bible, since you feel it gives you some ammo, you best be careful about what else it might contain that you do not like, such as:

After hi another man will stand there from [the fornicators], and another [will] stand there from the slayers of children, and another from those who sleep with men, and those who abstain, and the rest of the people of pollution and lawlessness and error,

Looks like it has some things to say about sex outside marriage, abortion, and homosexuality also…

Originally posted by Enkidu
Like the simple fact that Revelation clearly says that only 144,000 virgin male Jews will be eligible for their wonderful "rapture." Oh, they will argue a blue streak about that one! But there it is in divinely inspired black and white.

The problem here is that you have totally misinterpreted this by not reading the entire thing. I love how non-Christians like to pick and choose a sentence here or there and leave out all the other surrounding information. Here is the part you either missed or knowingly left out as to pick on Christians:

So this is the part you seem to know:

Rev 7:4 And I heard the number of them which were sealed: and there were sealed an hundred and forty and four thousand of all the tribes of the children of Israel.
Rev 7:5 Of the tribe of Juda were sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Reuben were sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Gad were sealed twelve thousand.
Rev 7:6 Of the tribe of Aser were sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Nepthalim were sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Manasses were sealed twelve thousand.
Rev 7:7 Of the tribe of Simeon were sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Levi were sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Issachar were sealed twelve thousand.
Rev 7:8 Of the tribe of Zabulon were sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Joseph were sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Benjamin were sealed twelve thousand.

So what is the next line:

Rev 7:9 After this I beheld, and, lo, a great multitude, which no man could number, of all nations, and kindreds, and people, and tongues, stood before the throne, and before the Lamb, clothed with white robes, and palms in their hands;

Huh, I wonder who these guys are, seems to be a few more the the initial 144000. Lets see if it tells us who these robed palm wavers are….

Sure enough look what I found by reading down a couple more verses:

Rev 7:13 And one of the elders answered, saying unto me, What are these which are arrayed in white robes? and whence came they?
Rev 7:14 And I said unto him, Sir, thou knowest. And he said to me, These are they which came out of great tribulation, and have washed their robes, and made them white in the blood of the Lamb.

Wow…..
What do you know, if you read the rest of the quote suddenly whammo, there are the Christians, who’da thought. Of course this would mean that you actually cared to deny ignorance and were not just out Christian bashing.

Originally posted by FlyersFan
Hey jj ... add to that MOST christians do not believe in a 'rapture' at all.
There are 2 billion christians on this planet. It's perhaps a couple of
hundred thousand who are 'born again' or 'fundamentalist' that believe
in a rapture. The rest do not.

You are partly correct and partly wrong.
Catholicism being the largest group does not believe in the rapture as they follow Preterism and thus believe that Daniel is about Anitius Epiphanies and Revelations is about Rome under Nero.

Most protestant faiths are historicists and thus believe in no rapture, even some of the more fringe ones such as the seventh day Adventist and the Jehovah’s witnesses. True fundamentalist in independent groups, non-denominational churches, and for some reason many Baptist groups are the ones that believe in Futurism and thus a Rapture.

Unfortunately, many of the mainline protestant faiths do not train their parishioners in prophecy and many that try often do not do it correctly. Since Futurism has flooded the market through popular movies and books, and many teaching bible studies on the topic are getting their information from these sources, it seems that futurism is propagating at an outrageous rate. However to say that this is a belief that belongs solely to Fundamental or “born again” Christians is not very accurate and kind of stretching things a bit.

For Seraphim Serpente

Those notations I offered, are just indications of the nature of the woven trap.

They are not factual nor do I believe them to be accurate, but the Spin and talking mouths that provide commentary on such things in the media act as if these types of ideas are true, and leave unsuspecting and casual readers or viewers with the opinion that it all makes sense.

When in reality, it's just confusion, on confusion with decit and manipulations added in.

Who is the master of this is my question to you?

Satan, is this master, and his aims and goals are clear. Decieve the World, and Ensnare All.

As for your other remarks those are underwstood. I do not completely agree, since it is always easy to pick and paste exactly what you wish to note or suggest, as the Church has done for Eons. It is difficult to argue a simple Verse, but it tends to clear things up, when the whole thought or paragraph is review intact.

Have a good Day

Ciao

[edit on 8-4-2006 by Shane]

I haven't had time to actually see/read this Gospel of St. Judas, but my friend told me that he heard on the news it says something about people going to Jesus' tomb with medicinal herbs to treat his wounds. (NOT to embalm). So this would mean that he wasn't dead, and went on living. If what the scrolls say is true. But at this point I really don't know. I just thought I'd bring it up and see if anyone else has any more insight.

Originally posted by defcon5
to say that this is a belief that belongs solely to Fundamental or “born again” Christians is not very accurate and kind of stretching things a bit.

Well .. I think it's rather accurate. I guess it doesn't really matter so
I won't argue the point with ya' ... but I'm going to stick with what
I said. Very few Christians have a rapture as part of their belief
process.

2 billion christians are on the planet. 1 billion are Catholic. So that
cuts the christians in half. Episcopalians, Greek Orthodox, Russian
Orthodox, Methodists, Congregationalists, and Lutherans all do not
preach 'rapture'.

Jehovah's Witness' and Mormons don't preach a rapture - I'll include
them even though most Christian groups do not consider them to be
Christian.

That mostly leaves us with the assorted Baptists (Northern, Southern,
Free Will, etc.), Church of Christ, non denominationals, and some
(not all) presbyterians.

There is a thread in BTS about the rapture and it's origins. It wasn't
taught at all prior to the mid 1800s. A failed anglican priest named
Nelson Darby was the first to start preaching it. He started a separate
religious group that believed in it and this belief caught on with
the fundamentalists in the USA and Canada area.

Originally posted by SethJaneRob
I'm sorry but we now know where Mary is buried??

Which Mary?

The tomb of Mary, the Mother of Jesus, is empty and is in Israel.
You can google pictures of it. It is empty and this goes along
with the Catholic belief that she was assumed into heaven after
her death.

I think the tomb of Mary Magdellen is supposed to be in France.

Here's a GREAT site for fun ... morbid ... but fun.
www.findagrave.com...
Find any grave of anyone famous.



[edit on 4/8/2006 by FlyersFan]

More and more I come to the conclusion that the bible was nothing more than a Skilfully put together book for the benefit of the growing religious movement of the time Christianity.

And the same people that was given the authority to put it together used their own personal infusion of how the new religious movement should be control by rules.

Does it matter any more than here and there new bits of information comes around that has been missing from the whole story of the Christian Son of God? Does matter that new conspiracies seem to look more like the truth.

Yes it does for the people that are looking for historical facts.

But for the faithful it means nothing because faith has nothing to do with historical fact but what the believer holds in his hart as the truth.

I find the article very interesting and a nice infusion of what the bible has offered to the reader and faithful for thousands of years.

Just my opinion.

Don't loose your time with this nonsense and,if you'd like to have an idea
about JC & Co,go to the website below:excellent reading!
WKR
Baloria
www.jesusneverexisted.com...

Originally posted by defcon5Wow…..
Of course this would mean that you actually cared to deny ignorance and were not just out Christian bashing.

Who is Christian bashing?
It seems to me that Christians (some) are being defensive and feel a bit helpess perhaps as to all the new discoveries.
After all, they must question those people who canonized the books that make up their Bible.
(Along with the fact that there are plenty of apparent contradictions brought on by the stories being written down years after the events...if they even did occur.

I saw quotes from Revelations, which I thought I would bring a reminder that Revelation is actually a Jewish text, not a Christian text. Its Kabbalistic, and those that study kabbalah realize this.
The point here, by saying Jewish text, is to try to bring to point that a lot of Jewish text was perverted in explanation to the Christian masses, and changing it for the agenda of the day.

Reincarnation, for example is in the New Testament. Now Gnostics believe in this. But Christians will deny its existence. However if you read the text about John the Baptist, when asked if he was Elijah, etc. you can see clearly that this is a reference to reincarnation. You may argue that Jesus was not for this teaching, o.k. fine...but the point is the thought was there...and why is that? Because thats the belief of the day, and still is a teaching in Judaism today. (Quite natural teaching, go to a Chabad house.)

Gods Peace to you all, and Christians that are uptight, enjoy the story. No one is asking you to believe it, but its not the end of the world.

dalen

[edit on 8-4-2006 by dAlen]

I just have to ask...would it really make a difference in the message of Christ if Judas was asked to turn him over?

what would that change?

I have the same feeling about Jesus having children would it make his teachings any less?

i think no...changes nothing.

and i do believe Judas was a true follower and is sitting next to Christ as we speak.