Jesus Papers

Two reasons the author you mention does not have a theory.
1.s Just any old idea someone comes up with is not a theory An idea, belief, postulation whatever is not theory. Theory has requirements and most ideas do not meet the requirements. ID is a prime example on an unqualified idea that cannot reach the level of theory
2. The author's idea is not his. If he claims the idea that Jesus was drugged and spirited away by a group of followers to be his own he is a liar.
The idea firstappeared in a very good book by a genuine scholar hired by the World Council of Churches to aid in the attempted translation of the fragments referred to as the Dead Sea Scrolls. This individual wrote the book back in the 50's and was a qualified individual to write such a book. This author you quote is apparently a Johnny-Come-Lately unless he is writing about the original book. It would appear from your statement that this suthor is a plagiarizer and therefore not worth a read.
Glad I could help.
sayswho (skep by any other name)

Originally posted by fattyp
The Spear of Destiny, also known as the Spear of Longinus and the Heilige Lance — Holy Lance — is one of the most important Christian relics of the Passion of Jesus Christ. As first described in John 19:31-37, the Spear was used by a Roman soldier (Gaius Cassius, later called Longinus) to pierce the side of Christ as he hung on the cross. The Spear, bathed in the blood of the Lamb and playing a significant role in the fulfillment of Old Testament prophecy, is believed to have acquired tremendous mystical power. The first sign of that power was the purported healing of Gaius Cassius’s failing eyesight by blood from the wound. The centurion later become an early convert to Christianity.
ourworld.cs.com...

who actually has it now do you know??

mod edit: shortened quote

[edit on 5-4-2006 by sanctum]

From what I've heard, it is back in the Hapsburg Museum in Austria, where it was before Hitler got his hands on it. The story goes that Patton had it for a little while then had to give it up to Ike and was killed in a jeep accident a short while later. Ike supposedly had it returned to the museum. I say supposedly because many believe the Lance in the Hapsburg Museum is a forged replica.

For all I know, the Bonesmen have it salted away with Geronimo's skull at their Yale headquarters. That just occurred to me as I was writing this, as the powers it is purported to impart to its possessor(s) dovetail nicely with the Bonesmen's current attempts at world domination.

[edit on 4-4-2006 by Icarus Rising]

Originally posted by Il Papa
.If someone today said a burning bush spoke to them we would lock them up as deluded and keep sharp objects away from them. I think this says more about blind faith than owt else.

Through the Fire. Whatever wisdom comes to you Il, comes to you through the fire.

Ask yourself, what is the fire ?

This blind faith that led thousands to become martyrs in their lords name. I sure the zealots will say they gave their all greatfully. You stick to your god, but I will choose life...Thanks

I am not the least bit puzzled by the fact that so many people feel hostility towards religion.

Oftentimes those feelings are very well-qualified.

But certainly, there is great wisdom in what is called "the Bible", but reading/blindness and understanding/insight are worlds apart.

Previously, Baigent has captured readers' imaginations with his provocative non-fiction work "Holy Blood, Holy Grail," in which he claimed Jesus was married. Now, while in the middle of a highly-publicized lawsuit with the publishers of "The Da Vinci Code" for copyright infringement, Baigent has an even more controversial premise that challenges much of what we know about Jesus: What if Jesus survived the crucifixion

Wow..........This is crap................Non fiction?????????????

I saw the author on TV say:

It's not about what happened, it's about what could have happened.

Well, a bee could a flown up his azz when he was pole volting and he could have set the world record....................But he didn't.

I think these are called LIES.

Jesus did exist. Wait till He comes back to judge. I'm sure you'll be sorry you didn't believe Him.

Originally posted by whyfish


Hmm I had a little investiagte into this and apparently it all depends n what kind of build you had and your stamina. I'm sure you know how crucifiction works but just for those who don't I'll explain the details.

When you are crucified you are positioned in such a way that breathing is extremely difficult. When the victimfeeels such a strain on their lungs they force themselves upwards using their legs (which are nailed to the cross, OUCH).Eventually the pain of this is too excruciating and the allow themselves to droop back to step 1. Different people could survive this for varying amounts of time. You could quite feasibly die after half an hour of doing this. Its only very rare cases where people live 2-3 days.The mans, evidentally twisting the facts to support his ideas. I find it interesting that some peope still debate whethere Jesus exusted and yet this man thinks he has evidence that he didn't really die? I find it laughable, but I'll buy his book before I jump to conclusions.

Thank you Whyfish, I was hoping someone had a little knowledge on this subject.

This sheds light on why he may have died quicker than others have on the cross. Jesus is, for the majority, is depicted as of small stature, not a very robust man, which may have sped up his demise.

[edit on 5-4-2006 by Grailkeeper]

If we are to go by the narrative, he also had fasted (more or less) for 40 days in the wilderness until 5 days beforehand. Not exactly in the best of health on his return I imagine.

About Jesus' crucifiction errors:

1. His legs weren't broken
2. His 40 days of fasting in the wilderness happened years before His crucifiction
3. About the Jesus Papers, I read it and there are a whole lot of "...it's plausible..." and "...it's plausible..."
4. Too much fact based on paintings. The painting in the book showing Jesus being carried to or from the tomb, the author's contention is since the moon is shining, it's already the Sabaath and therefore Jews wouldn't touch a dead body, so it's obvious that Jesus is still alive. My contention would be that the people carring the near-death yet alive Jesus would have been overjoyed. Then why were the women crying in sorrow? The Gospel account is that they had to hurry before the sun went down. The moon in the painting is just a painting...not a Gospel account.

1. His legs weren't broken
2. His 40 days of fasting in the wilderness happened years before His crucifiction

You are quite right about the fasting being long before the passion narratives (Matthew and Luke?) - I apologise, I was thinking of the church's Lent running up to Palm Sunday. I feel somewhat abashed.

And indeed, John says specifically that Jesus' legs were not broken (19:33).

Samwise,

I agree with what you said regarding the painting and the women crying, what I wasn't clear on was if the moon had been added after the fact rather than at the time of the actual painting.

Insight for those who had not read:

A church (location escapes me at the moment) had this particular painting in the Stations Of The Cross. It shows Jesus being placed in/removed from the tomb, everyone looks sad if not crying. In the upper left corner a moon can be seen.

To me, it looks as if it was added later and not by the actual artist.

Originally posted by JesusIsGod
Jesus did exist. Wait till He comes back to judge. I'm sure you'll be sorry you didn't believe Him.

What a joke. People discuss the existence of the guy, and the respnse is 'you non-beleivers are going to DIIIIEEEEEEE!!!oneone11!!"

That would be the Church of Mary Magdelene at Rennes Chateau, in France. The novel depiction of that station of the cross is reputed to have been added by Berenger Sauniere, during his renovations in the late 1800's. Quite a story behind it.

www.rennes-discovery.com...

i am amazed this thread still exists... or is still going on....

so..has anyone firgured out yet, when did Jesus "take the drugs" ? was it before or after the beating ...or maybe in between nails ???

BN, the drug is given to him, according to the theory, when he is given the sponge to drink the 'sour wine'. Of course, this, I beleive, was given by the romans, in the usual story. Could've been snuck into their buket or somethign I suppose.

The big trip up is the lack of a drug that can do this.

Let us speak of Jesus(PBUH).

Not of the "Messiah", foretold by the prophets of old.

Let us repeat His words.

Let us break the chains of our bondage.

And not forge new ones for tomorrow.

Let us live in passion and ecstatsy, in this hour.

And not be mindful of ancient laws.

Jesus(PBUH) gave His breath to the walking dead, for the sake of Life, and for the sake of Joy.

Avert your eyes from those who claim themselves wise and learned, but who are in truth full of sorrow, and without aim.

When your neighbor says unto you, "Good morning!",

can you find God in your neighbors voice?

When you hear the singing bird,

can you find God?

You will find God only when you realize there is no place empty of God.

Be wary of those who would prescribe your bread and your wine.

Originally posted by JesusIsGod
Jesus did exist. Wait till He comes back to judge. I'm sure you'll be sorry you didn't believe Him.

Ha ha! Talk is cheap! Let's see you roll out some good old fashioned, undeniable evidence of it. Not some stuff added to documents centuries later, either. You won't, because you can't! And there's no conspiracy to keep the evidence away from you. There just isn't any.

So just admit right now that you're just a gully bubble person who goes along with all the nutty stories you're told because you like to feel that you're special and part of a special group (when you're really not). Admit it!

Originally posted by d60944
If we are to go by the narrative, he also had fasted (more or less) for 40 days in the wilderness until 5 days beforehand. Not exactly in the best of health on his return I imagine.

He was just working out. You know, like boxers do before a big fight. By the time he got to Jerusalem, he was ripped, with a six-pack and muscles coming out of his ears. That's why he was able to whup all them money-lenders in the Temple.

He shoots, he scores!




[edit on 5-4-2006 by Enkidu]

Originally posted by Enkidu
[Ha ha! Talk is cheap! Let's see you roll out some good old fashioned, undeniable evidence of it. Not some stuff added to documents centuries later, either. You won't, because you can't! And there's no conspiracy to keep the evidence away from you. There just isn't any. So just admit right now that you're just a gully bubble person who goes along with all the nutty stories you're told because you like to feel that you're special and part of a special group (when you're really not). Admit it!

It is quite easy to understand why those who are threatened with eternal torment in the fiery pits of Hell for their "unbelieving" would mock their tormentors.

But you would find Jesus(PBUH) to be a man whom you would greatly admire, were the truth of his life properly understood.

I shall post a new thread on this subject, and you can decide.

If you had ever been anointed with and felt the power of the Holy Spirit, as I have, there would be no doubt in your mind whatsoever, as there is none in mine, as to the existence, mission, and supremacy of our Lord and Saviour, Jesus Christ, the Prince of Peace, the Son of God.

It isn't something that anyone else will ever be able to prove to you, it is something you will have to accept for yourself, when the time is right, in your own life.

When you do, when that moment comes for you, as it will come for all, you will be ashamed and repent of your blasphemy, for which you have already been forgiven by Him.

May God bless and keep you until then.