ID Cards Compulsory in UK by 2010 - Official

Originally posted by ImaginaryReality1984

I didnt have photo ID when I got my bank-account had it donkeys-years !

Ahh well that will explain it then if you have had one for years.

I still stand by the idea that we need passports and driving licenses though. These are good systems.

IR1984 - you have raised many excellent points. I am with you at the moment - i.e. seriously considering leaving UK before this goes ahead.

Well the ID scheme isn't the only reason i am going to emigrate. If it was just this scheme that was wrong with this country then i would simply help with mass protests and whatever else we could peacefully do to stop the government implementing it. There are many others problems with this country and that's why i am going. The ID scheme is the last straw for me.

There is so much wrong with this country.......you dont really know where to start and there probably even an end to it either !

But I dont think it really matters where you live in the world, all and every country etc has problems.......it's just finding one that hasnt got so many !

I might get a passport some day, but then I couldnt afford to go abroad anyway.........still trying to pay the bloodly tax's here is enuff to make anyone broke !

[edit on 3-4-2006 by blackwidow666]

Blackwidow i agree with everything you just said. In an earlier post i said about emigrating to another country but every country has problems. Finding a country with relatively free laws, ok taxes, decent sanitation, healthcare and if possible a free loving approach to sex with people as ugly as me (ok that's a stretch) is quite difficult.

Originally posted by ImaginaryReality1984
Blackwidow i agree with everything you just said. In an earlier post i said about emigrating to another country but every country has problems. Finding a country with relatively free laws, ok taxes, decent sanitation, healthcare and if possible a free loving approach to sex with people as ugly as me (ok that's a stretch) is quite difficult.

Thank you hun glad someone agree's with me heheehhehe gotta be a first time for everything (seeing as Ive been here for soooo long now) !

"Free loving approach to sex" mmmmmmm ahhhhhh nah better not comment in public will u2u you

If you go anywhere else it will still be a relatively small nation that can easily be put under control. Your biggest options are Russia, Canada, US, Brazil, and China. China and Russia are probably not your ideal society. And Brazil could care less what their people think. IMO your only hope is to join America or Canada and fight off the invasion from in here. A civil war would make this country impossible to ever conquer.

Trust me, there are alot more people here in America willing to fight when the time comes. The thing is in America we are not having these issues yet, and our lives remain relatively unchanged except for airport security, a litttle more expensive gas (still some of the cheapest in Western society) and the fact you can't really joke about terror anymore.

Watch what happens if they ever try to take our guns away, especially without a vote. All hell will breaks loose. "We loves our guns, LOVES OUR GUNS!!"

Originally posted by alienanderson
Yep, now is definitely the time to get a new passport

Biometric passports have been introduced this year, but only facial biometrics are captured at the moment

UK Biometric Passport FAQ

Fingerprinting is not due yet but it is on its way, and I believe DNA capture to be the goal


The Stepping Stones:

2006 - Biometric Passport introduced
2007 - Compulsory Fingerprinting when renewing passport
2008 - DNA collection?
2010 - Compulsory ID cards
2020 - Microchipped Population?

External Source
Electronic Passport Forum link

...The introduction of electronic travel documents worldwide will pave the way towards the much broader market penetration of RFID and biometric technology in the areas of citizen ID and eGovernment projects.

2006 infrastructure set up for move towards machine readable travel documents:

ePassports
National IDs
Visas

As it says above it will 'pave the way' to wards penetration of RFID technology. Already RFID implant chip technology exist for records, tracking, buy and sell (link)
As RFID further intergrates into civilian life, the National ID card will be increasinlgly needed to access full citizenship 'rights' to prove you are a non-terrorist.
RFID chips will alredy have been impanted in millions, through body art, prisoners, arested people, for medical records. The technology will advance and price will decrease. by 2020 there will be legislation to replace the now necesaray national ID card with an implanted chip whcih can carry out all those functions of the current ones. Obviously it will be mandatory as ID cards will be phased out.

[edit on 3-4-2006 by AdamJ]

[edit on 3-4-2006 by AdamJ]

You see there is a major flaw in the ID cards. The government keeps touting that it will stop terrorism, but no sorry.

Ok so we all know that there are people in this country who would happily attack us. The government themselves say that. Many are here legallyand are legal citizens. So they bring id cards in and these people get one like everyone else. They raise some kids who get some and they raise there kids to hate this country.

One day little johnny terrorist grows up and bombs somewhere. The government have is DNA at the scene and match it up to the national database, Hurrah they exclaim we have him, ahh but wait. He commited the attack like so many others do and blew himself up with the innocent people around him.

So the government know he did it but they can't punish him. They could have found out it was him without those cards because the police would have done their job.

ID cards are useless. If anyone wants a further rant on the effect they will have on benefit fraud then please ask me and i will rant on.

[edit on 3-4-2006 by ImaginaryReality1984]

Well last november I has to give my finger print over when I went to the states. I need to renew my passport, before I go again in July and I hope I just don't have to do that face biometric scan. What's left for me? Nothing. Should I always whip out my penis and say 'do you want a urine sample'... how about I jerk off right here and you can have my sperm too. Some blood perhaps, here I'll help you *grabs knife* ...will a pint do? Hair...you want some hair, here you are *tears out chunk of hair*. Nail clippings? ...oh and my poo. yep got it right here. I took a dump on the plain in to this plastic container I hope it's o.k cause I won't be brewing another one for another 24 - 48 hours.

Well...maybe that's a little over the top. Matter of fact, if you want to travel you're going to have to go along with all this biometric face scanning, finger printing, RFID chip BS. The wheels are already in motion. The only way we could ever stop this is some sort of 'coo'. Is that the word? 'Military Coo'? That's how it's said, the 'coo' might not be spelt right though. That's when the military/public overthrow the government right? It wouldn't be pretty. That sort of action would be the only action to stop this ID card nonsense, biometric scanning and so on.

I'm not ready to give up on the freedom millions have died to keep.

Shaunybaby- I really do feel we are in an inevitable decline. Many people, too many infact have suggested these 'coups', standing up and overthrowing the Government. Now be reasonable, as you wrote millions died for our freedom.. many more will die if you attempted such action.

The Government is in control of public services, do you actually think this country will be peaceful and we'll have our freedom IF they were overthrown?? Of course not.

Firstly- The Government has control of police and the army.. are you actually going to stand up to them? The Government won't just hand over the keys.. in effect you a proposing a civil war and if it were me I know i'd be safer with the Government.

Secondly- Without the police and army there, do you actually think people will behave as they should? Of course not, shops will be getting burgled, cars stolen, rape.. the streets and country would erupt into anarchy if people thought they could get away without being punished. A certain authority needs to remain.

Thirdly- From a personal view I object to these plans entirely. I do not feel violence is the answer however. Petitions, protests..even moving to a different country would put a stop to it.

Fourth- If this 'coup' was to occour.. violence is not the answer. Infact FAR from it.. if they have all these extra plans in motion won't they use the uprising as an excuse to actually take control. They have a fullblown REASON to watch everymove people make.

I really do oppose.. I just don't think it's a war that can be won.. unless people actually open their eyes to stop seeing themselves as not being criminals and thus have nothing to hide viewpoints.

shaunybaby - if you need to renew your passport then there is a good chance you will get a new biometric passport.

As far as I understand it, this just means that the photo that you submit will be measured, and the relationships between various measurements (width of eyes, length of face etc) will be encoded onto a chip and this chip forms imbedded in the photo - a kind of extra level of security against fraud.

Still, the sooner you renew your passport the better - it may not be long before your fingerprints are required and so on until it's compulsory to supply your DNA



[edit on 3/4/2006 by alienanderson]

[edit on 3/4/2006 by alienanderson]

Shaunybaby that's right.

I did mine recently and they delayed it because of an "administrative error". I would maybe hazard a guess that they did it so that i would have it delayed and they could take there face scan instead of a standard passport. Maybe i am being overly suspicious there though.

Anyway yes the photo you submit is sent through a computer and varies features are recorded as someone else mentioned. It's not a major issue, it's the iris scans and fingerprints i would be angry with if or should i say when they brought that in.

Well I'm going on holiday from 1st July to 14th July, or thereabouts. My passport runs out on something like the 20th July. As it's America they might be funny about me travelling on a passport, and going in to their country with one that's soon to run out. Who knows maybe I can get away with this one, and perhaps not ever travel again??

As for the coup, yeah it'd be violent, people would die and so on. However, if the government ever though something like that would happen, would they not stop all this ID card nonsense?

It's wierd, the other week I was compared to Karl Marx and today I'm all 'for' a civil war.

It's wierd, the other week I was compared to Karl Marx and today I'm all 'for' civil war.

Lol I nearly fell off my chair at that one.


There are roughly 60 million people in this country. I reckon maybe 2 million at absolute most would be willing to take physical action, and I think that is a generous guess. This isn't enough people to actually do anything, we might provoke others to attack us but it would be over quickly and the ones against id cards would lose.

I truly do believe that most British people would not go beyond peaceful protest. All the idiots who sit around and drink all day, wear hoodies at night and mug old grannies wouldn't even care. They would be nice little sheep and do whatever the government wanted as long as they could still drink and mug people.

The middle classes are renowned for following the government. I don't believe many from that bracket would bother even objecting.

The upper classes wouldn't care for the most part, why would they?

It's only a few of us who would take action, and it's only a few of us that even care. Many people will say we are obsessed with conspiracy and dispel our ideas that way. Personally I don't get to involved with discussions on NWO and the like, I am looking at it from a freedom and money view. The amount it will cost is truly disgusting and as stated earlier, why should I pay for a card that gives me nothing but trouble. That vast quantity of money could go a long way.

Let's be conservative and say the cards will everyone 50 pounds each. This does not include the cost of the systems, it's just the cards. So 50 pounds x 60 million = 3 billion. Think what that could do, finally this week many doctors have said that the NHS can no longer remain free for all. This was obvious a long time ago and they want us to pay for ID cards instead of the NHS.

Oh excuse my grammar and spelling.


[edit on 3-4-2006 by Riwka]

Knights,

A coup is not the removal of governemnt and establishment of Anarchy.

It is the overthrow of those in government

Originally posted by ImaginaryReality1984

It's wierd, the other week I was compared to Karl Marx and today I'm all 'for' civil war.

Lol I nearly fell off my chair at that one.


There are roughly 60 million people in this country. I reckon maybe 2 million at absolute most would be willing to take physical action, and I think that is a generous guess. This isn't enough people to actually do anything, we might provoke others to attack us but it would be over quickly and the ones against id cards would lose.

[edit on 3-4-2006 by Riwka]

5% will fight generally. the old saying is 95% of people need to be told what to do.
so 3 million, but even 2 million if you organised it would easily be enough to overthrow this unpopular rabble.

Knights you might as well not complain about any security measure because you have just stated you will do whatever the government does so you can save your skin. I suppose that kind of attitude would fly with athiests, but those of religious backgrounds and strong faith believe that death will be a release. So therefore if they have to spend the remainder of their mortal lives under the ever watchful and pervasive eyes of power hungry, immoral, apathetic, and selfish parasites who call themselves leaders they will be more than willing to fight for their rights as free humans.

It is happening now in Iraq, as well as Afghanistan, and those are only a few thousand, who have less road access and live in harsher environments. Much of the United States has fertile land where a variety of foods can be grown to support populations whivh have been cut-off.

You also fail to take into acccount exactly how much even only 2 million people is. And as you can tell, you have seen what the non-violent approach is achieving , absolutley nothing.

So take a backseat and watch as your countrymen are murdered fighting for their freedom. Don't actu surprised though when a unit of government sldiers comes knocing at your door explaining "ok you have to have these microchips imbedded as well as these surveilance cameras installed or you will have to be detained. It will be at that point you wish you would have done something sooner,because at that point you have no option for escape.

Originally posted by DYepes
Knights you might as well not complain about any security measure because you have just stated you will do whatever the government does so you can save your skin. I suppose that kind of attitude would fly with athiests, but those of religious backgrounds and strong faith believe that death will be a release. So therefore if they have to spend the remainder of their mortal lives under the ever watchful and pervasive eyes of power hungry, immoral, apathetic, and selfish parasites who call themselves leaders they will be more than willing to fight for their rights as free humans.

so you can save your own skin

When i say i would do nothing it's because i honestly believe that such a small minority in a country like ours would do nothing. I believe that you would have ordinary citizens turn on us. I am willing to do something about it, and that's leave this country. Not just for that reason but others as i have stated.

If more people were willing and able then i would happily join in, but maybe follwoing the classic line of "Live to fight another day" would work well here. Build up a movement before taking action, and i think you would need a good 10% of the population to do so. If the movement against such cards began to grow through us talking about it peacefully then we could take action.

I am not a coward, i would fight but not for a pointless battle. In that kind of situation the first battle would be the last so you need to make sure you win. But i honestly believe we are talking about a rather large scale action here and it would damage the country for many years. I don't mean the infrastructure i mean economically and politically.

Lately tensions have been rising over illegal immigrants and political correctness. I honestly beleive we will see a full scale civil war before we see fights over ID cards. That is very worrying to me.

By the way, you had a little poke at atheists there (fair enough) but i will say that religion has no place in this argument. I have nothing against religion (yes honestly) but in this argument it will only hinder rather than help.

Mentioning things like the "Mark of the beast" and the "New World Order" will only give critics of our arguements extra ammunition. If the average person heard such terms then they would label us as nutters and all our ideas could easily be swept aside as raving paranoia.

Don't give them more ammunition then they should have.

[edit on 4-4-2006 by ImaginaryReality1984]

[edit on 4-4-2006 by ImaginaryReality1984]

I am 100% against this ridiculous law. I might actually organise a protest against this bull****.

We are literally becoming slaves in our own country, which is supposed to be a country of freedom!

Quick question: If I refuse the ID card and the possible future microship, won't I just get sent to prison?

Uhh... this sucks so much.

Originally posted by xeroxed88
I am 100% against this ridiculous law. I might actually organise a protest against this bull****.

We are literally becoming slaves in our own country, which is supposed to be a country of freedom!

Quick question: If I refuse the ID card and the possible future microship, won't I just get sent to prison?

Uhh... this sucks so much.

This has alreayd been commented on. This is why i said they have covered the angles well. If you refuse you will be massively fined. If you don't pay you go to jail where they will take your details anyway so you can't win.

It's true that if a few million said no they couldn't imprison us all, but i am willing to bet they will take details by force. They do this in police stations if you don't comply so as you will be a criminal for not having one they will be able to do that.

Ahh, okay.

Sorry, I didn't read the whole thread so I didn't know it had already been answered.

Further to earlier posts on the worlwide rollout of ID Cards and Biometric Passports here's a few links


BBC News from 30 March 2004 - Concern over Global ID System (predicted implementation 2015)

"We are increasingly concerned that the biometric travel document initiative is part and parcel of a larger surveillance infrastructure monitoring the movements of individuals globally," said civil liberty groups Privacy International and the American Civil Liberties Union.

Silicon News 3 April 2006 - Developments in South East Asia

Singapore is the second country in Asia after Thailand to introduce e-passports, Tan said, though the Thai government's initiative was not designed to meet the requirements of the US Visa Waiver Program.

The above article also states the Australia and New Zealand have been involved in the testing

It's a shame that Thailand is also involved, as I was hoping that Thailand might be a safe place to go live. At least their system is not compatable with the US system (yet)

And I believe Malaysia of all places is at the forefront, with their national ID card 'MyKad'

The UK/US Biometric Passport schemes are very similar:

ATS Thread on US Biometric Passport (with pictures)




[edit on 4/4/2006 by alienanderson]

[edit on 4/4/2006 by alienanderson]