ID Cards Compulsory in UK by 2010 - Official

..you'll be subjected to discrimination - insureance fees anyone?

Your DNA shows a tendency towards risky behaviour - double that car accident insurance fee, next step...

Your genes reveal you as a born criminal - no career for you, if you get within a mile of a crime scene you will be guilty until proven innocent (wait it's already that way, so scratch that one ) Last step:

You're a drain on resources, go to the meat grinder at the age of 2 months..

Hey, don't look at me i'm an antisocial element, out to deceive you all, so better close the message board while you're at it.

My simple worry as i stated earlier is that you may be convicted of a crime you havn't commited before you get chance to say "Hey i didn't so this".

As for not being tracked well the government wants all areas of life secured by these cards. This includes banks, credit cards and everything else. The idea is to use your id card at the same time as your credit card! This would enable tracking at every level, also i honestly believe it is a step towards the abolishment of "real" money. The sort of thing you can hold in your hand and know it's worth a certain amount. Let's remember that in the UK in i think the 1980's they discussed getting rid of paper and metal money and using cards. This was a serious discussion (it might have been 1970's).

Again i have nothing to hide, i would have no problem in the tax man looking at me, or the police looking at me, i have nothig to hide. So why would i want privacy? Well the question why i would want privacy is surely the answer in itself! It's a human right, if you don't have privacy then you don't have democracy.

Originally posted by alienanderson
I agree with you ElTiante, this must definately be protested before it gets underway

AdamJ - do you think this is evidence of a 'hidden hand'?

What I mean is, is it being forced onto us by persons unseen - NWO, Illuminati etc

yes m8 it clearly is, its not the first, we had the anti-terror laws debacle before this. In Australia it was a total farce the lengths they went through to get them through.
Another sign is that its all rolled out at the same time across the world. China, USA, Europe, Australia, all have the same concept at the same time with the same deadlines 2008 and 2010. (then the chip implants to replace them are set at 2020, but thats still hush hush)

Illuminati maybe, i think illuminati has inflitrated anywhere of interest.
This is the work of globalists (its rolled out world wide) and intelligence agencies which developed the technology, so basically the secret government.
Its hard to work out exactly how they interact.
Really its the start of world government.

A large part of this is the genetic database, can you imagine the eugenics potential for having the entire genetics of national populations on a searchable database. Imagine the havock Hitler and co. could have created with something like that. The potential for evil is too great, a genetic database shouldnt exist.

Originally posted by Knights
Secondly, I would like to comment on I.D cards, I really don't like the thought of them but then again can the Government actually track you on a daily basis? Fair enough if you leave the country but no actual day to day use of the card will be needed.. or unless i'm unaware of something?? We won't have to swipe it or officially show it when completing official documents.

1
The plan is to use the cards for almost everything, there is a transfer towards electronic only money, which will require an extension of bank card technology.
The ID card will be used instead, or at least needed to be scanned to verify when you move money, or buy and sell anything.
2
It will have your details on it and can be scanned from a distance so police etc can look at criminal records in a given area with a scanner.
3
You will need it to enter facilities, say libraries for example, the doors will be electronic, opened by your id card not your presence, like they are now.

Those are the actual goals so far, whatever the government might say, but really the potential is endless.
The government can already track you through chips in mobile phones, or its being implimented at the moment if they cant yet.

What would be the point if you didnt have to swipe or show it?
The extension of the technology will mean that it will be scanned automatically you wont have to get it out and show it, just carry it with you everywhere.
Of course this leads naturaly onto replacing a card which can be lost or stolen with a chip which is implanted.
See how its all planned, its very smart

[edit on 1-4-2006 by AdamJ]

[edit on 1-4-2006 by AdamJ]

Scary.. yet also feasable.

Perhaps from the moment people are born predictions from your DNA will be used to create a profile (as mentioned above ^^). Perhaps a step further specific jobs will be designated to an individual from genes or early characteristics (many people thinking of Futurama now lol), certain decisions may be made, courses to take, levels of education all already decided, gradually taking away our freedom.

For the mean time however, the whole track your movements issue is worrying, everything that we do in life will be monitered and i'm sure that there will be particular trigger points where an individual will be monitered or apprehended for a crime they didn't commit. By this I mean if a map of London is say borrowed from a library, railcards purchased, potential bomb making equipment bought from somewhere such as a garden centre (perhaps a bad example) then you can be arrested and possibly imprisoned? I mean I know now if certain words are mentioned down the phone then phone conversations will and can be rcorded or listened into.. perhaps this is the next physical step??

Originally posted by Knights
Scary.. yet also feasable.

Perhaps from the moment people are born predictions from your DNA will be used to create a profile (as mentioned above ^^). Perhaps a step further specific jobs will be designated to an individual from genes or early characteristics (many people thinking of Futurama now lol), certain decisions may be made, courses to take, levels of education all already decided, gradually taking away our freedom.

I hadnt thought of that. Yes undoubtably there will be someone who thinks of that and it will slowly become a reality.

what if people refuse

enmasse ?

are they gonna jail everyone ?

nobody wants to be tagged like cattle

including myself

You can opt out until 2010 when it will then be compulsary. Unless Labour win an election before then in which case they will be compulsary right away
Those who 'opt out' still have to pay for it!
So they may as well get it anyway

You get it by renewing your passport, so can you live without a passport. its essential compulsary.
You will probably be able to use your ID card as a passport within the EU.

I went to the states last november and I had to give them my finger print, I think I did thumb or finger...can't quite remember. However, It wasn't like that a couple years back when I went. I really wish I hadn't given over my print, but I guess they might just not let me in their country if I didn't.

I will not be getting one of those so-called 'compulsory' cards. Even if they make me, I'll get it and burn it. If enough people do the same then we can fight it. The government will have no choice but to scrap the ID bill, so long as enough people fight it!

Also this DNA business, in what form do we give it over. Does this mean when I go get my passport I've got to go there myself and they've got to take a urine sample/blood/swob my mouth etc??

[edit on 1-4-2006 by shaunybaby]

If you have been to a universty in the UK recently you'll have been isued an ID card, it will look like that with your details on it. Also though there will be a chip in it.
Initialy that chip will hold 'biometric' information on you. which i think will be a face scan and an iris scan or something like that. So you will presumably be made to take those scans when you apply for your next pasport. you will also have your photograph taken and you'll be fingerprinted.
Whatever information they collect on you will be put into their database after a background check.

[edit on 1-4-2006 by AdamJ]

Source

Personal information

* full name

* other names by which person is or has been known

* date of birth

* place of birth

* gender

* address of principal place of residence in the United Kingdom

* the address of every other place in the United Kingdom where person has a place of residence.

Identifying information

* a photograph of head and shoulders

* signature

* fingerprints

* other biometric information

Residential status

* nationality

* entitlement to remain in the United Kingdom where that entitlement derives from a grant of leave to enter or remain in the United Kingdom, the terms and conditions of that leave

Personal reference numbers

* National Identity Registration Number

* the number of any ID card issued

* allocated national insurance number

* the number of any relevant immigration document

* the number of their United Kingdom passport

* the number of any passport issued to the individual by or on behalf of the authorities of a country or territory outside the United Kingdom or by or on behalf of an international organisation

* the number of any document that can be used by them (in some or all circumstances) instead of a passport;

* the number of any identity card issued to him/her by the authorities of a country or territory outside the United Kingdom

* any reference number allocated to him/her by the secretary of state in connection with an application made by him for permission to enter or to remain in the United Kingdom

* the number of any work permit relating to him/her;

* any driver number given to him/her by a driving licence;

* the number of any designated document which is held by him/her and is a document the number of which does not fall within any of the preceding sub-paragraphs

* the date of expiry or period of validity of a document the number of which is recorded by virtue of this paragraph.

[edit on 1-4-2006 by AdamJ]

Yea guys honestly you should hold mass burning rallies. Its the best non-violent way to protest it, while still making an impact. They can't try you on destroying government property, its paid for by your friggin taxes!!

I am pretty sure that the powers that be have to at least include the Rothschild Dynasty, of which you British should know plenty about.

In this country [U.S.], through their American and European agents, they helped finance Rockefeller's Standard Oil, Carnegie Steel, and Harriman's Railroad. Werner Sombart, in his book The Jews and Modern Capitalism, said that from 1820 on, it was the "age of the Rothschild" and concluded that there was "only one power in Europe, and that is Rothschild." In 1913, the family fortune was estimated to be over two billion dollars.
......
American and British Intelligence have documented evidence that the House of Rothschild, and other International Bankers, have financed both sides of every war, since the American Revolution. Financier Haym Saloman, who supported the patriots during the American Revolution then later made loans to James Madison, Thomas Jefferson, and James Monroe, was a Rothschild agent. As explained earlier, during the Napoleonic Wars, one branch of the family funded Napoleon, while another financed Great Britain, Germany, and other nations. Their boldest maneuver came prior to the Civil War.

Source

Plent more at The World History Project

Originally posted by toasted
what if people refuse

enmasse ?

are they gonna jail everyone ?

nobody wants to be tagged like cattle

including myself

Well from what i have read they will be issueing massive fines first, thousands of pounds per one. If you don't pay then it's jail. You are right they can't jail everyone at once but maybe they would do a staggered jailing thing. Jail most now and then jail others later.

Also once they jail you they will take your DNA and details anyway, that's a well thought out way of covering the angles they have there isn't it.

Furthermore you won't be abel to access half the things in your life without it. Imagine you refuse and they don't come knocking right away. You can't use a bank account, access a library, get a new passport or driving license, leave the country (the obvious thing to do is to need your card at an airport) and so many other things. Basically your daily life will be destroyed without one, unless you don't mind living off the land in the New Forest without anything that costs money then maybe you don't need one lol.

In the end as already mentioned you will need to swipe the card or be near an access point that detects the cards presence so being tracked everywhere is completely possible. If they want to find you they type in your number and find everything you last accessed.



So here some pro ID card people would say "Why are you worried they would need to find you? What have you got to hide?"

Nothing is the answer, i have nothing to hide. What worries me is the fact that if i am falsly accused of a crime they will know where to get me right away, and if my DNA is there innocently then i could be in alot of trouble. I gave a story earlier about a guy who went through that.

More importantly it's the fact that these cards won't do anything and will cost me money. I mean i am happy to pay the government taxes so that i could go to school, have nice roads, hospitals and so on. What i do not liek to pay for is a card that invades my privacy and does nothing. I should not be forced to pay for that. Let's go through the points.

1. They say it will stop terrorism but do terrorists need these? No they come on holiday here and bingo they are in and commit any act they want, so there cards fall down.

2. They say it will stop ID theft. Sorry no. If you know wherethe holes are in the system you can get a passport so why not a new card? Let's say i use a fake fingerprint, name, address and so on. I can now get a card with a whole new ID. This is one of many ways you could get one and be another person. The DNA is a pointless argument for confirming your ID. IN daily life you won't come across a scanner that scans your DNA quickly enough for it to ve viable. So what's the point of that even being considered to be on there?

3. It will stop money laundering. Sorry wrong again. Banks will still allow access to accounts over the phone. It would be very simple to steal someones details and use the account they already have to transfer money around the world.

4. They say it will stop illegal immigration. Again no sorry, the illegal imigrants will still come here. They will drop out of site and evrything will become organised as usual. Some fo the legal ones will have cards which they will use to get things for the illegal ones. Employers will still employ them for cheap and pay them in cash. This cash will be given to the legal ones with cards as payment, and so it goes on and on.

It's all rubbish, there is no reason for ID cards and there is certainly no reason for a DNA database, one which they will sell to the highest bidder.

We live in a damn democracy apparently and yet this is the most un-democractic thing i think this country has ever seen.

As others have said as welll, if you have a DNA database then DNA discrimination is the next step. Can anyone say Gattaca? If you havn't seen the film Gattaca get it, a startling view of the future. If Orwell was right now then Gattaca i think is the next future.

[edit on 1-4-2006 by ImaginaryReality1984]

You have voted ImaginaryReality1984 for the Way Above Top Secret award. You have two more votes this month.

Nicely said.


I think if there's any hope at all, it's to stop the cards before they become compulsory. Although, I'm sure it was decided 2010 will be the year. I wouldn't be surprised if these ID cards did come in to effect, that there would be a mass migration of possibly thousands to other countries. Our roads, schools, hospitals, poor people, homeless people etc could do with this money.

Is it possible at the next election if labour don't win...can the other parties once in power stop the ID card. I know the Lib Dems are against it. Then again that might be a little too late.

There's too many ignorant and willing sheeple that don't mind about these ID cards for them to be stopped. I think the figures are 1/5 are saying 'no2id', and 4/5 supposedly 'yes'. I doubt they're actually saying 'yes' it's a good idea, it's more they just aren't bothered and don't care.

I find it amazing that more Americans are not closely watching this UK ID card business.

Given the way Blair so willingly suckles Bush, it truly would not surprise me to discover that ultimately the UK ID card system is a test-bed for a US scheme. If a failing leader such as Blair, sliding further down the polls month after month, can enforce this visibily useless, flawed and unwanted measure in a country which in actuality has (so far) more democratic public freedoms than the US, it will 'prove' to Bush that such a scheme could be implemented in the US, quite possibly in a less problematic manner. And of course Bush would then have the advantage of being able to use Britain as an example of why there is nothing to be afraid of with a biometric ID card system and its accompanying centralised database....








[edit on 2-4-2006 by Kung Foo Fighter]

Make no mistake this is about an obsession to control the people by people who enter politics for the wrong reasons, because they are megalomaniacs.

These cards will have chips on them.

It WILL be compulsory to carry them no matter what the UK Government claim now.

The Blairite government claimed in its manifesto last year that the cards would NOT be compulsory. But with Blair, always expect to be lied to.

The British people will be able to be tracked wherever they are.

David Cameron has now said he supports the cards. The UK citizens have no control over the matter whoever wins the next election.

If you are a Uk citizen, your every move can be tracked and next they want to put tracking devices in your car too.

The authorities will abuse your rights with these cards, as we have seen an elderly man arrested under anti-terrorism laws in the Labour Party Conference for shouting something out.

The cards will be used by the police state to track those that are not compliance with the dictatorship.

Already Britain has the Metropolitan police chief Sir Ian Blair as a spokesman for Tony Blair's policies DURING an election campaign.

Blair is determined to be able to lock up suspects for up to three months on the say so of the Home Secretary.

Make no mistake Blair and his sychophants want a police state.

This will not stop terrorism.

It will not stop terrorist stepping off a plane.

Visitors will not require the cards.

It would not have stopped the 7/7 bombings.

It did not stop the Madrid bombings.

It will not stop ID theft, because ID theives do not need passports at the moment.



This has NOTHING to do with terrorism.

Let's recap what has Blair done to tackle terrorism?

He has turned UK into a terrorist target by joining Bush in his war in Iraq.

He has seen homegrown "terrorists" let off bombs in London, who incidentally had links to Haroon Aswat, an MI6 informant.

He has not secured the British borders. A tabloid reporter sailed into 40 ports around the country without ever having to show documents.

He left hate preachers like Abu Hamza to carry on for years.


A little bit of terrorism and a little bit of Islamophobia suits Blair. It helps him justify his wars with Bush. It helps him push through his police state. It helps him take away the freedoms of the British people and give those freedoms to the politicians.


But what has Blair done to tackle crime?

Like Sir Ian Blair, Britain has Blair's own people installed in every department to spin information to the public. They will manipulate statistics and "bury bad news" as needed. The latest crime figures have had to be recalled as they were so obviously wrong. And then we have the British Crime Survey, an over glorified OPINION POLL that ministers use while dismissing reported crime.

Violent crime in Britain has QUADRIPLED since Blair took over. He has softened or is about to soften laws on drink, drug, gambling, gay sex in toilets, prostitution. You name a vice, Blair has made it easier With his league tables and taking away responsibilities from parents and school discipline from teachers, he has helped turned Britain into the moral cesspit of the western world with record teenage pregnancies and STD and loutishness, drugs and anti-social behaviour. New York is now a far safer place than London.

What is Blair's answer?

ID Cards. Blair could not even revamp the current passport system without a fiasco. His friends are going to make billions out of this and the British people will pay the price.

If a failing leader such as Blair, sliding further down the polls month after month, can enforce this visibily useless, flawed and unwanted measure in a country which in actuality has (so far) more democratic public freedoms than the US.

Is that a joke? Our country is not free compared to the US. Did you know that we have to get police permission to have a peaceful protest if we are going anywhere near parliament? Most communist countries don't force that sort of thing.

It WILL be compulsory to carry them no matter what the UK Government claim now.

Yeah i love that one. "It's not compulsory, but you will need it to access your bank account and many other areas of life". This means that you will have to have one and damn well carry it everywhere, so many of the critics havn't picked up on that! Also as someone said if you want a new passport in the next couple of years you will have to have an ID card. That's using the backdoor strategy well.

Violent crime in Britain has QUADRIPLED since Blair took over. He has softened or is about to soften laws on drink, drug, gambling, gay sex in toilets, prostitution. You name a vice, Blair has made it easier With his league tables and taking away responsibilities from parents and school discipline from teachers, he has helped turned Britain into the moral cesspit of the western world with record teenage pregnancies and STD and loutishness, drugs and anti-social behaviour. New York is now a far safer place than London.

Ok a couple of points. I dislike blair immensly but i agree with some of these policies. I don't see a problem with realxing the drink laws, as long as the age doesn't go down obviously.

Gambling was always going to be softened no matter which government comes in. That industry is so very profitable, look at how much money it turns over! I don't agree with it but it's always going to happen sadly.

"Gay sex in toilets"

Ok firstly i hadn't heard about this. Second no one should be having sex in toilets without being punished as it's a public place. Third why is it gay sex you focused on there? I am not accusing you of anything but it seemed like a very homophobic sentiment there. Please correct me if i am wrong, and my apologies if i am.

Prostitution has always and will always go on. You cannot and will not stop it sorry. I actually agree with legalising it. I wouldn't visit a brothel myself but i believe that organised, tax paying brothels would be a good thing. You could put regulations down so that safe sex is practiced and the girls (or guys) could be tested each month for STD's. It would also help reduce the violence and danger to the women doing it. I do think it's a good idea to legalise that.

Sorry i went off topic there.

Basically this country has gone to the dogs, and sadly i don't think it will get better. You have a massively corrupt and inefective government, many lazy people who sit on benefit with no just cause other than being lazy (not having a go at genuinly unwell or disabled people there) and loads of other things in a complete mess. Kids and teenagers phoning the fire brigade and when they arrive throwing stones, sticks and shooting at them with cheap air rifles. I even heard a fire fighter describing a call he had gone out on. Some kids lit a derelict house on fire but before doing so they went up to the second floor and smashed all the floor borads through by one of the boards. They did that so when a fire fighter went in he or she would fall through and land a story below! Utterly sick little (insert profanity). Then there were two other cases where some kids lit a dog on fire and filmed it on the phones thinking it was funny, and another that lit a tramp on fire and filmed it. A small selection of other storys is below, take a look and see what Blairs britain has been turned into.

"Happy Slapping" Serious assaults
news.bbc.co.uk...

Cat thrown off roof over and over and filmed on phone
news.bbc.co.uk...

14 year old girl attacked, 20 teens film it
news.bbc.co.uk...

These are not isolated incidents, it's not the media picking the bad stories out of all the good ones. This is now the norm where i live.

It's gotten to the point that my family and i are considering leaving this country and living somewhere else. Canada is somewhere i always liked. Nice big open country. Don't get me wrong i know every country will have it's problems but i am in utter dispair at this one. I have talked to friends about emigrating and many of them think the same. If they had the money they would go, a friend of the family has recently moved to Italy mainly because he thinks this country is truly rubbish. I love my country i really do, but it's been destroyed now. No one cares about anyone else, crimes gone up, the NHS is failing and well it's basically ruined.

Well look out Canada i think we'll end up there in a couple of years.

Originally posted by Clipper

David Cameron has now said he supports the cards. The UK citizens have no control over the matter whoever wins the next election.

has he? cna you link. i thought they claimed they were against them

Originally posted by Kung Foo Fighter
I find it amazing that more Americans are not closely watching this UK ID card business.

Given the way Blair so willingly suckles Bush, it truly would not surprise me to discover that ultimately the UK ID card system is a test-bed for a US scheme. If a failing leader such as Blair, sliding further down the polls month after month, can enforce this visibily useless, flawed and unwanted measure in a country which in actuality has (so far) more democratic public freedoms than the US, it will 'prove' to Bush that such a scheme could be implemented in the US, quite possibly in a less problematic manner. And of course Bush would then have the advantage of being able to use Britain as an example of why there is nothing to be afraid of with a biometric ID card system and its accompanying centralised database..
[edit on 2-4-2006 by Kung Foo Fighter]

Hey you americans are getting them too, through the driving License i believe.
They have been pushing for 10 years at least in the states and always getting rejected, but not anymore.

Originally posted by shaunybaby
You have voted ImaginaryReality1984 for the Way Above Top Secret award. You have two more votes this month.

Nicely said.


I think if there's any hope at all, it's to stop the cards before they become compulsory. Although, I'm sure it was decided 2010 will be the year. I wouldn't be surprised if these ID cards did come in to effect, that there would be a mass migration of possibly thousands to other countries. Our roads, schools, hospitals, poor people, homeless people etc could do with this money.

Is it possible at the next election if labour don't win...can the other parties once in power stop the ID card. I know the Lib Dems are against it. Then again that might be a little too late.

There's too many ignorant and willing sheeple that don't mind about these ID cards for them to be stopped. I think the figures are 1/5 are saying 'no2id', and 4/5 supposedly 'yes'. I doubt they're actually saying 'yes' it's a good idea, it's more they just aren't bothered and don't care.

where they gonna go, its an EU wide scheme. Worldwide actualy.
They'll have to end up in Africa or the middle east to get away from this global government. And they are invading the middle east so that wont be independent much longer.

Figures are not like that. 70% 'yes' in polls if they are lucky, but they have done polls where 80% are against though they prolly wont mention them