ID Cards Compulsory in UK by 2010 - Official

Originally posted by ImaginaryReality1984

Originally posted by AdamJ
I would put in the effort if i thought i could stop it but its impossible. Its not a political idea its corporate.
Its already too late to stop it by the time it reaches consumer level, and it just has.

Well that is the problem with this whole damn country. If you accept it then it will happen! Ok maybe it is to late to stop but i would rather have had it come in and fought to stop it then simply letting it roll over me. Check my signature.

I will fight it, but not politically. Really this has been set as world standard for travel so there is no way to stop it.
The NIR could possibly have been stopped but i think it must be linked to the world travel database in the long run so i dont think it can either.
I will fight more than anyone so dont missunderstand me, i just know how difficult it is. Im realistic.
There is a no2id campaign now, its too late!!!! you will all just get fined now if you protest. You need to research this stuff and know in advance to protest it, but then you are called a nut job, so its hard to win.
Most of the people ive talked to about id cards even now say im a conspiracy theorist. Tell them its a world ID and they dont believe it. people are generally far too far behind to protest things effectively. Most of them would rather get drunk and ignore it, say im a nutter so, hey.

[edit on 17-4-2006 by AdamJ]

Worrying new developments in the newly formed Identity and Passport Service's official remit:

ID database will become national population register
Government also calls for national register of under-16s...

The government says the ID card database will become a national population register of basic personal information for the public sector to verify identity and has called for the development of a children's register as well.

The Treasury confirmed this week that the newly created Identity and Passport Service (IPS) will take over the work being done by the Office for National Statistics on the Citizen Information Project to create an adult population register containing a person's name, address, date of birth and a unique ID reference number.

Des Browne, chief secretary to the Treasury, said in a statement to parliament: "The IPS should be responsible for developing the national identity register (NIR) as an adult population database. Over time public sector systems, business processes and culture should be adapted to use the NIR as the definitive source of contact details in the longer term."

The NIR will only contain details of adults over the age of 16 but a national child population database could also be on the cards.

Browne said: "There is significant value to both citizens and the public sector in greater sharing of contact details - name, address, date of birth, reference numbers - in a secure way across the public sector."
source

And an example comment on this story:

And the slippery slope begins.....

......this was never going to be just an identity card system.

So now the ID cards lead to a NIR containing personal data of every human in the UK?

Will DNA recording and RFID tracking of the population be that far behind?

And while I am here, a bit more news - Manchester Airport has recently launched it's iris scanning system for people who register on the scheme:

The Iris Recognition Immigration System (Iris) will allow registered passengers to enter the UK without queuing to see an immigration officer at passport control.

Individuals who sign up to the scheme will be able to walk up to an automated barrier, simply look into a camera and, if the system recognises them, enter the UK.

A one-off enrolment for the Iris system takes about five minutes and is free. Registration is conducted by immigration staff in the departures area of the airport.

This biometric technology works by photographing a passenger's iris patterns and storing the data in a database, together with their passport details. Click here for photos of the system in action.
source

Apparently it is actually slower than the usual passport system, but I guess they will say 'it's early days yet'






[edit on 24/4/2006 by alienanderson]

OK this is just disgusting, what is next? I mean maybe we should start putting peoples political views on the database, maybe any sexual tastes they have, that way if anyone dislikes a group of people we can get them at once.

This country truly is on the way to fascism. Is the RFID chip going to come on every card so we can be tracked everywhere? Is the RFID chip a socially acceptable form of branding individuals? I know many people will think i am being stupid there but that is how i see this now. I am utterly fed up of the ID cards, the waste of money, the lies about it helping defeat terrorism.

When they bring these damn things in i hope to be out of this country, a citizen elsewhere. If i am not, well then i will go to jail. Ok yes i will be forced to have one in jail i am sure, but i would rather be on record as fighting it then being someone who simply went along with it.

Originally posted by ImaginaryReality1984
When they bring these damn things in i hope to be out of this country, a citizen elsewhere. If i am not, well then i will go to jail. Ok yes i will be forced to have one in jail i am sure, but i would rather be on record as fighting it then being someone who simply went along with it.

Amen to that

Get your passports renewed before it is compulsory to supply ID card data

[edit on 20/4/2006 by alienanderson]

You are not going to avoid it.

World id.
I think what that means is that every country will have to have an identity register. Or their citizens wont be able to travel.

If you have seen Brave New World, you have the mainstream drugged society and the outsiders who refuse to go along with it.
Time to choose which you are.

Concentrate on stopping the toll roads, these ID card systems its too late.

Toll roads the decision has been made, trials are in place and successfull, its very close to going through.
Yet huge numbers, higher than almost anythign else, are against them. polls show numbers like 95%.
for example

Whatcar.com's own poll on nationwide charging has attracted hundreds of votes with 93% opposing the move. Just 5% are in favour, while 2% are undecided.

source

Government claim its it necessaray to avoid congestion blah blah any old excuse. People have to learn and wake up to the fact that this fabian government always lies. Its about setting up a control grid where once there was not one. So you need permission to travel. The same thing as they have just done at the airports.
Controlling the arteries and veins of society.

[edit on 20-4-2006 by AdamJ]

[edit on 20-4-2006 by AdamJ]

ID card spending doubles to £56m
And they want your fingerprints too

A bit more on the ID card scheme

The new Identity and Passport Service will spend £56m on setting up the controversial ID cards project this year.

According to the new agency's business plan, it spent £25m on the ID card "set-up" in 2005/06 and has a budget of £56m in 2006/07 as the project takes shape.

The document also reveals the priorities for the agency over the next 10 years.

Short-term plans include completing the rollout of the new ePassport with a biometric chip during the third quarter of 2006.

In the fourth quarter of this year, 600,000 first-time adult passport applicants will be required to attend a personal appointment at one of a new network of 70 offices to prove their identity.

A facial recognition system will be rolled out to all IPS Regional Fraud Intelligence Units by the end of 2006.

The IPS said it will trial taking fingerprints next year as a second passport biometric.

It said: "We anticipate piloting the recording of fingerprints as a second biometric from volunteers in late 2007." This will be followed by the introduction of a UK passport with both facial and fingerprint biometrics.

Following the launch of biometric passports will be the biometric residence passports, followed by the rollout of the second biometric passport and then finally the ID cards themselves, due in 2008/09.source - silicon news

Interesting to read how they spent £25 million last year before the law had even been passed

yea, it is indeed. good link thanx.

epassport is the first of the three
1. epassport
2. national id
3. visas

Is it just me that remembers all those old films made in the 80's and 90's which showed a world of trackable people? Everyone going through scanners everywhere and eventually getting sick of it and revolting. Anyone remember films like barb wire?

These thing's won't help they will hinder, they will slow life down, What about the idea that law enforcment and immigration officials won't bother to check much anymore because they will have a suposedly secure system? When we begin to rely on these sorts of things, then security will actually become well less secure. Just my views.

Originally posted by ImaginaryReality1984
When we begin to rely on these sorts of things, then security will actually become well less secure. Just my views.

Yep, this is my opinion also. Its not that it becomes less secure but the emphasis changes.
Surveilance cameras for example, dont augment police on the beat, they replace them. So you end up relying on technology and electronics instead of humans. I think that just changes the nature of security and society.
The concluson may be an increasingly non-social, violent society with law enforcemnt and people on different sides.

Yeah that is sort of what i mean, i believe that relying on technology in that way will result in many people who are innocent going to prison. I also think that you are right in that our culture will actually become more violent. The problem is that this violence will be met with more aggressive detterents and i believe it will end up simply getting worse and worse. A repetitive cycle, we may be straying from the topic of this thread though and so i will leave this here otherwise i will be slapped by the mods.

Originally posted by alienanderson
Interesting to read how they spent £25 million last year before the law had even been passed

- Why?

If various feasibility studies, systems and concepts are being formulated and studied, along with reports obtained from various people, institutes and countries around the world where is the surprise that this costs money?

The proposed 'law' was/is a major part of the government's program so funding the initial 'groundwork' for it should come as no surprise.

Originally posted by sminkeypinkey

Originally posted by alienanderson
Interesting to read how they spent £25 million last year before the law had even been passed

- Why?

If various feasibility studies, systems and concepts are being formulated and studied, along with reports obtained from various people, institutes and countries around the world where is the surprise that this costs money?

The proposed 'law' was/is a major part of the government's program so funding the initial 'groundwork' for it should come as no surprise.

True - I guess that in my mind the ID card scheme should not go ahead for various reasons, and that no money should be spent on it. However, I do admit that feasibility studies etc do eat up money

My concern is that the money could be better spent in other areas (particularly police resources) in order to reduce crime and fraud without the huge costs involved in setting up a national ID scheme

[edit on 26/4/2006 by alienanderson]

It is now full steam ahead for the government's controversial identity card plans.

Since clearing the last parliamentary hurdle back in March, the government has set up a new agency to oversee the implementation of the scheme, one of the largest and most ambitious IT projects the UK has ever seen.

silicon.com has been tracking the development of the ID card project since the beginning - and over the following pages we'll take you through the A to Z of identity cards. We'll tell you everything you wanted to know about the scheme... but were afraid to ask.

How much will the cards cost? What if you don't want one? Will you be asked for your ID card by policemen? Or alternatively, how soon can I get one?

Click on the letters below to find out more...

source - A-Z of ID Cards

Silicon news has summarised the ID card scheme into A-Z format

Thought I'd post it here as this thread is a good a place as any to provide a link to this info

Example:

R is for Refuseniks

The government's plans could be thrown into disarray if large numbers of people refuse to accept the cards.

So far more than 12,000 people have already joined the No2ID campaign, pledged to refuse to sign up to the ID scheme and donated money towards a legal fund to fight the legislation and protect those the government might prosecute for refusal to comply.

And last year Liberal Democrat MP Simon Hughes said he was willing to go to jail if necessary, rather than carry a card.

[edit on 5/5/2006 by alienanderson]

Civil servants have sold the personal details of hundreds of thousands of people to criminal gangs
An internal investigation at the Department for Work and Pensions (DWP) has found that civil servants are colluding with organised criminals to steal personal identities on "an industrial scale".

link

[edit on 14-5-2006 by AdamJ]

Just a bit more news and opinion on the scheme

Scaremongering or valid point by famous fraud expert?

ID cards will be 'cloned within six months'
So says Frank Abagnale of Catch Me If You Can fame...

ID cards will be "perfectly" copied within six months, according to a leading fraud expert.

Frank Abagnale - whose story was made famous by the Steven Spielberg film, Catch Me If You Can - has warned the ID card scheme will be easily cracked.

He told the BBC: "I give it six months before someone replicates it perfectly."

Abagnale, who is now a consultant helping to crack down on fraud and identity theft, added: "Everything you need to clone an identity is in one place."

source

And comment from the Lib Dems on the DWP case mentioned by AdamJ

Organised crime 'will attack ID cards database'
Database of sensitive info raises the stakes...

Organised crime will try and crack the identity cards database - the National Identity Register (NIR) - the Liberal Democrats have warned.

Last year it was revealed that the identities of 13,000 civil servants had been stolen and used by criminals to make fake tax credit claims.

Liberal Democrat home affairs spokesman, Nick Clegg, said the theft was a "terrible omen" for the forthcoming ID cards scheme.

Clegg said, if organised criminals are capable of infiltrating the Department for Work and Pensions (DWP), "it is clear they will target the identity cards database where the stakes are even higher".

Clegg said in a statement: "The government's claims that ID cards will cut identity fraud look increasingly unrealistic. If the ID cards database is breached, people could find their iris scans and fingerprints - as well as personal data and national insurance numbers - stolen."

source

I just don't seem to hear anything positive about the scheme - even on mainstream news and radio

I heard a discussion on Radio 4 yesterday about immigration and those who stay on in Britain illegally and they didn't think the ID card would be much help at all - the money would be better spent bringing in a system to monitor the entry and departure of foreign nationals



[edit on 19/5/2006 by alienanderson]

IBM researcher Michael Osborne, whose job is research into secure ID cards, slated the UK government's ID cards scheme on the grounds of cost, over-centralisation, and being the wrong tool for the job.

The big issue is that the UK government, plans to set up a central database containing volumes of data about its citizens....

Finally, Osborne also used a dozen criteria, including whether or not such as system is mandatory or time-limited , to show that on all but two, the UK Government's scheme fails - even before controversial civil liberties issues are considered.

link


mod edit:

Quote Reference (review link)
Posting work written by others. **ALL MEMBERS READ** (review link)

[edit on 22-5-2006 by UK Wizard]

At the end of the day it doesnt matter what WE "joe-public" want or dont want !

You are born a number and sadly die a number, thats all we really are now !


BORN FREE TAXED TO DEATH

hello all
I havent posted on this site for a while for a number of reasons?

After the 7/7 bombings in London i was in my ignorance all for the ID cards stupidly thinking that this would go someway in stopping the type of terror attacks that we all witnessed, even though the bombers were 'homegrown; for want of a better word, and i say this was in my ignorance and frustration....
Bear with me here please!
Im 40, ive lived in ENGLAND all of my life, ive been in hospital, ive had cars, ive had credit, and credit cards, ive travelled the world and had my passport stamped, both on entering the UK and in other countries, ive bought a house, ive voted, ive worked , and paid taxes.

Now DONT GET ME WRONG!!!!!---I am totaly AGAINST the use of IDcards, but im just wondering (perhaps ive not read enough on the ID cards) but looking at the above (most people my age would have done the same) but what more information will these cards be able to carry?

Now i know that the use of ID crads will NOT stop terrorism!!
But as to (us) being monitored all day every day, well IMHO this is being done now and has been for a large number of years, and this is without the use of ID cards,

Just think of this :
if you live in or near a major city , virtually the moment you step from your door, your on camera!
Your vehicle movements are being tracked!(supposedly to monitor vehicles without insurence /mot etc)!
Your spending habits HAVE ALLWAYS been monitored if you use a credit /loyalty card
lets says on your credit card you have a weekly shopping bill of £150 which is being paid off when the bill comes in , and additional spending through your credit card epr month comes in at around £600 giving atotal of £1000.......the taxman has access to this .....if you self employed and you only declaring that your monthly income is £1000....how are you living...do you get what im saying?

Why is it that ONLY 2 companies in the UK are allowed to hold FULL credit info on you?........COZ THEY ARE OWNED BY BIG BROTHER!!!!(my opinion.. not got any evidence)
EQUIFAX AND EXPERIAN
It dosent matter where or what you buy/ what bank you go to, which house you rent or buy if your getting credit the agency will at some point get a credit check done by one of the 2 companies....(full credit checks)

My son who is 16 and looks about 14 recently bought a top set box from woolworths plc, a few days later a letter arrived for him when he opened it i hit the roof...............it was a bloody letter for a tv licence demand...........
I couldnt believe it we have a tv licence at our address, WHAT THE BLOODY HELL IS WOOLWORTHS PLC DOING ASKING A CHILD FOR HIS DETAILS!!!!!!!
needless to say ive lodged a formal complaint with wooloworths over this aint heard anything yet....
SO now we have a 16 yr old child who is alreday on a data base somewhere with his spending habits.....................

Thanks for letting me rant-off!!!

SAY NO TO ID CARDS
SAY NO TO THE EURO
AND ABOVE ALL SHRED EVRYTHING THAT HAS YOUR NAME ON IT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Hey spymaster.

Well it depends hw you live your life. I have never agreed with credit cards myself. Loans for houses and cars are one thing, but i never liked credit cards for several reasons.

1. Handing over a card and handing over hard cash are two seperate things. What i mean is that when you use a card you have no real concept of how much you are spending. This is how people get in debt, they have no connection to the money. Using actual physical cash seems to stop people getting into debt so quickly.

2. I don't use them because using cash means i won't get all those anoying extra letters in my mail. I mean everyone gets some of them but by not using credit or debit cards and sticking to cash i don't get put onto any lists with my buying habits. I also don't have any store cards for this very reason, prevention is better than cure right?

3. I have never liked spending money i don't actually have. Obviously thing's like houses are different, few people have the money to buy one out right.

I also don't have direct debits because my friends have had bad experiences with banks not authorising payments in time and then getting extra charges on top of it.

As for ID cards, well the problem i have is extra info like fingerprints being taken on them. I mean up until now only criminals and suspected criminals had them taken. Well along with certain other people like military and intelligence personel. Why as an inocent citizen should i walk down to a post office and put my finger across a scanner? I'm innocent, i have commited no crime, i thought this country had the law of innocent until proven guilty. By taking this information it feels like we are expected to commit a crime.

Once again even if we ignore the civil rights issues, the financial issues are important. The NHS medical database has gotten into a lot of trouble already, how does the government think they will get the ID card system going? IT professionals everywhere are saying it's a flawed system and that it just won't work. The millions required to fund it would be better spent on a failing NHS.

Originally posted by blackwidow666
At the end of the day it doesnt matter what WE "joe-public" want or dont want !

You are born a number and sadly die a number, thats all we really are now !