India connection to origin of Judaism?

Just happened across this, sounds very interesting. I'm going to have to do a bit of more research into this, find more credible source's of information and see what I can dig up.

www.viewzone.com...

Could possibly explain why Jesus fled to India ...

www.awitness.org...

www.viewzone.com...



[edit on 28-3-2006 by Prot0n]

[edit on 28-3-2006 by Prot0n]

While very intresting in its points, I dont know that I would go along with the premise attempted to be put across here as assumptions to steer into a certain direction..even to a eventual belief system.
This appears to be Eastern philosophy at work. To make all religions the same religion. This is obviously not what the Hebrews were told to do.
Intresting none the less for its fingerprint.

Thanks,
Orangetom

Just happened across this, sounds very interesting. I'm going to have to do a bit of more research into this, find more credible source's of information and see what I can dig up.

Yea, you might check facts. The origin of the eastern religions is Babylon. It all has to do with the sun god and the lie that blinds the world. Checked your article, you might re-read it.







[edit on 28-3-2006 by Prot0n]

[edit on 28-3-2006 by Prot0n]

Originally posted by Sun Matrix
Yea, you might check facts. The origin of the eastern religions is Babylon. It all has to do with the sun god and the lie that blinds the world. Checked your article, you might re-read it.

You've already shown your nothing about truth's or fact's. You can't even perform simple mathmatics for christ sake. And I've re-read those articles a few time's before I bothered posting them to make sure I understood what they were getting at. I don't do what you do. I can't stand people who lack reading comprehension and feel the need to take thing's out of context.

[edit on 31-3-2006 by Prot0n]

You've already shown your nothing about truth's or fact's. You can't even perform simple mathmatics for christ sake. And I've re-read those articles a few time's before I bothered posting them to make sure I understood what they were getting at. I don't do what you do. I can't stand people who lack reading comprehension and feel the need to take thing's out of context.

Well, you said that Judism came from India and just like before, I can use your own article to disprove what you are saying. Read your article.

We are told that Terah, the father of Abraham, originally came from an Eastern country called Ur, of the Chaldees or Culdees, to dwell in a district called Mesopotamia. Some time after he had dwelt there, Abraham, or Abram, or Brahma, and his wife Sara or Sarai, or Sara-iswati, left their father's family and came into Canaan

I would take it easy, as I expect the results will be the same as last time. You're just not used to that, are you.

Well, you said that Judism came from India and just like before, I can use your own article to disprove what you are saying. Read your article.

Again with taking thing's out of context and imparting new meaning's to them. You deserve an A+ for that, seem's to be your specialty.

As the thread title implie's, I'm questioning a possibility, not stating something I believe. Nor do directly say Judaism came from india. Reading comprehension is your friend. Another thing to consider, I did state I was planning on researching this more. There would really be no need for that if it were something I had previously held belief in.

Your ability to use article's/verses/or any text for that matter to "prove" your view's is ... idk. I can't even describe how ... ugh. nvm. I don't feel like getting in trouble over your trolling tactics.

Could possibly explain why Jesus fled to India ...

I think first, you need to prove that Jesus fled to India. You seem to be stating that as fact. Your research is to possibly explain why and not whether he did or not.

If you think Jesus fled to India, put your facts out there. I will be happy to disassemble them for you, just like before.

I think first, you need to prove that Jesus fled to India.

That's not the purpose of this thread. Please don't attempt to hijack it.

You seem to be stating that as fact.

I'm not sure how your seeing me saying something about Jesus fleeing to India as being a fact. I never did state it was a fatual occurance. I do have a thread or post floating around somwhere on here discussing the possibility of Jesus fleeing to India, but even there I don't state it as a fact. You've got alot of learning to do on what a fact is compared to an opinion.

Your research is to possibly explain why and not whether he did or not.

Umm, no it's not. As I said before, reading comprehension is your friend.

If you think Jesus fled to India, put your facts out there. I will be happy to disassemble them for you, just like before.

As I previously stated, that is not the purpose of this thread, so please drop the issue here. Run a search and find my thread/post on Jesus fleeing to India if your so up to "disproving" an opinion. And you never did "disassemble" anything we've discussed.

When I have time I read stories and book on Occult studys..Eastern Philosophys/religions. I often contrast this with what little I know of Hebrew history. I obviously like history. I also think that much of real history is missing from our awareness ..deliberately. This history is often attempted to be replaced with new versions ..not for noble or honest reasons.

First off..I dont know Sun Matrix...nor to my knowlege have I ever posted with them .

I do know that the pattern of which Sun Matrix speaks Babylon...the sun god and its multitudes of variations under which it is operated in this religion ..world wide..is correct. Sun Matrix is right on here.
My first clue to this is the Japanese Flag...and its divine implications. Before WW2 it was a red sun disk with the rays eminating from the disk. The Symbol of the Emperor..the divine sun god. Another version is the Crysanthemum flower. I know this to be true becasue it is on the receiver of my 7.7MM Japanese Arisaka. I own one on which it got into this country and was not ground off. Most surviving Japanese WW2 rifles it is ground off. Douglas MacAurther replace the divine sun rays on the flag with what you see today..just a red sun ball. Symbolic of removing the divinity. Find this thinking taught in any public school????
The symbol is that the Divine Emperor came down to earth on the golden staircase...the rays of the sun .
In other nations and traditions the medium to carry divinity from the sun is a birds wings...with a sun disk between the wings..you see this in the Pharoahs of Egypt. Often carved on the walls of tombs.In other patterns/religions it is a peacock..the NBC peacock. Not accidental. Nor is the ABC Sun disk. Nor the CBS Eye.
Sun worship is the most often repeated pattern ...the next is moon worship. The sun and the moon and the master.

This is the pattern of the most prevalent religions on this earth. Even today ..not much has changed except for the publics awareness of this.
This falls under the title of Occult religions.

What is of importance here for our understandings is that this is exactly the pattern of operation that the Hebrews were told strictly to avoid.

Yet here you are trying to speculate on that very thing ..that Judiasm has its origins in this religion they were told not to do.

Dont worry..most people do not know enought history to even make this connection. This is why guys like Leonard Nemoy can get away with such drivel on " IN Search of". Ironic since Leonard Nemoy is from Hebrew stock.

What is not obvious to many is that somewhere in thier history the Hebrews got seduced into this other worldly pattern and many today are practicing this Worldly sungod pattern...contrary to what they were originally instructed under the Laws given to Moses on the Mount. THe Christians trying to emulate the Jews are doing the same pattern...and many of them without knowing it. It works best that way.

There are people out here who know history ..real history and can spot this kind of infiltration ..easily.
Sun Matrix is correct in his original post of the origins of this stuff.
It does however ..go back beyond and before babylon...before Egypt.

Thanks to both of you for your posts,
Orangetom

Orangetom,

I was unaware of how the sun rays got off of the Japanese flag. Thanks. I myself can't seem to get into studying eastern religions, I just don't enjoy it. I certainly am aware that the sign of the sun is always present there. The lie that blinds the world.

If you could, please clarify your comment below. I don't believe that this lie that blinds the world, predates Cush, Nimrods father. Certainly we can trace this lie from Babylon to Egypy, but are you saying that we can trace this lie to, before the time of the flood and Noah?

It does however ..go back beyond and before babylon...before Egypt

Ok guy's, the thread title is "India connection to Origin of Judaism".

Let's not dirty it with our own opinion's of how history went. A possible origin's of Judaism has nothing to do with discussing Babylon or the Japanese flag.

I do know that the pattern of which Sun Matrix speaks Babylon...the sun god and its multitudes of variations under which it is operated in this religion ..world wide..is correct. Sun Matrix is right on here.

No, he's not correct. While I could take the hijack bait, I'm going to refrain from doing so. If you'd like to discuss why Sun and you are wrong, start a new thread detailing your belief's and we can take a stroll through the history of belief system's and see where you guy's went terribly wrong and possibly see where you decided to input your own opinion's into history and decided that was how it really must have been.

Something you and others need to know about "Judiasm" Something often not told to the public in general..and I think the reason for this is deliberate.
The term Judiasm ..is a more recent term and used often to deceive the public about the religion. The religion should be called the Law of Moses. Or in short it should be called the Law.
The religion of Judiasm is actually a newer religion than Christianity and begins at the destruction of Jerusalem in 70 ad by the Roman General Titus. Son of the Roman Emperor Vespasian. This is the begining of the time of the Pharisees when they rose to prominance among the Jews with the destruction of the Temple in Jerusalem. This is the time when the Synagogue came into being. YOu see the religion under the Law of Moses can no longer be done in the manner it was since the destruction of Jerusalem.
What is very intresting and also know widely broadcast to most outsiders is that the Jews who came out of Ethiopia and were imported into the nation we today call Israel ..did not know the holidays that came into being with the fall of Jerusalem and the loss of the Temple of Solomon. These Ethiopian Jews practicesd a type of the Law of Moses...in the manner practiced by King David and Solomon before the Temple was built. It is as if they have been stuck in a time warp..unknown by most of the outside world. They do not know the holidays and festivities which came into prominance since 70 ad and the destruction of Jerusalem.

However ...once again ..these people, The Ethiopains know of the warnings given by God for them to not do as the people in the other nations did. The prohibitions.

The Jews which went into captivity in Babylon learned the Babylonian Religion and practices and many of them came to love them. Most of them did not return to Jerusalem. The numbers going into captivity and the numbers coming back show a very different tabulation.

Now about Babylon. Remember the tabulation too of the world civilizations of which we have most of the records. Begining with Egypt..one of the first large world class civilizations. Egypt conquered by the Assyrians, then conquered by the Babylonians then the Persians conquering them, then the Greeks conquering the Persians , then the Romans conquering the Greeks.
What we see in Egypt is the first large world class civilization practicing a variation of the sun god religions. Ra was the God..later versions of Osiris, Isis and then Tammuz. Their version of a trinity.
This religion has thier variation of the sun god..in the form often expressed through the Pharoahs...whos power came from the sun in the form of the "ank"..the cross with the little loop over it. You sometimes see the suns rays carved on the temple walls with little "anks" on the end of the rays.the crosses with the little loops on the top of them. The Pharoahs would be depicted large reaching up for the " Anks" on the ends of the rays.
We know this religion through history primarily because it is often told or taught to us by Egyptian History and the pyramids or Sphinx and stories or history surrounding this as if this was the begining of Civilization. This was the begining. It was not. It was the first large world class civilization recorded. These religions and practices .the patterns of them existed before the Egyptians practiced them.
This is known by mounds and sun dial/clock structures through out the world and dating of them by archeologists. The sun God variations were quite prevalent through most cultures. They just happened not to be world class as was Egypt. As I said ..the other religion practiced was moon worship. The sun and the moon and the master. If you have ever seen a grave using a dating method of moon events it has a very strange date on it like what appears to be some 5000 plus years. I have seen several and I admit it took me for a loop the first time I saw one. The last one I saw was up at Monticello..Thomas Jeffersons home in Virginia. It was a hebrew gravestone. Ordinarily you would never have need to know this. It is intresting however when you first see one...a bit strange till someone tells you.
Remember something too about the history of the Hebrews ..this not often taught even by preachers today. He history of the Hebrews indicates that they were a minority people surrounded by nations and people who did not particularly like them and wanted to get rid of them. In short ...they were surrounded by wildlife...practicing all manners of strange religions they ..the hebrews were told not to practice. These other nations and religons go back a very long way...very long.. We mostly hear or read about the Hebrews because they are known through our bibles. There is much about the history and practices not mentioned in our history books for good reaons. People would be sickened and disgusted by many of the religious practices of the nations surrounding the Hebrews...this ..even back before the time of the Patriarchs..Abraham, Issac, and Jacob were these people doing this sickening stuff. All variations of the sun/moon god worship.
What is known about Civilizations is that the Hebrews branched out somewhat along caravan or trade routes...and there were many. It was the fashion of the day to import new spices and goods from India, the Orient, and also up and down Africa. Some of these traders appear to have been Hebrews. Setting up shop along these routes and branching out further and further. This is known because some of the tribes into deep
Africa have stories handed down that many of the are decended from Hebrew stock. This was not believed at first until DNA tests were done and verified. It is believed that many of these traders were eventually absorbed into the local culture..leaving mostlly only this DNA evidence.

Remember ..the Hebrews were instructed as part of their religion to not do as the nations surrounding them did. Strict rules of dress..preparing food..what to eat and not eat..how to glean their fields worship....etc etc etc. This does not lend itself well to mixing with other civilizations practicing what are variations of paganism..the very thing they were told to avoid.
This view ...understanding and knowlege is kept away from most conversations on this topic in favor of promoting the concept that "all religions are the same religion" Or all religions come from the Same religion or source. This is a attempt to hijack them all and put them under one roof.
This is in fact what paganism does..it hijacks and absorbs many other religions. Why ..because most paganism comes from the same source..not so with the law of Moses. No wonder they dont want this taught in public schools.
The pattern you learn to spot when you are schooled in Occult/Paganism and Eastern Philosophys is that they are almost all "non sectarian" The Hebrew religion is Sectarian. Sectarian meaning seperate.. This too is not often defined by many preachers today to their flocks.

As to your not enjoying studying Eastern Religions ..I totally agree with you. I dont enjoy studying it either. I just read enough to get pattern recognition. It is often difficult to get good material on this as some of it is not desired to be in the hands of the general public.

Orangetom,

I was unaware of how the sun rays got off of the Japanese flag. Thanks. I myself can't seem to get into studying eastern religions, I just don't enjoy it. I certainly am aware that the sign of the sun is always present there. The lie that blinds the world.

IN answer to your question..yes through certain writings it can be traced back to the pre flood times..even through Eastern Philosophys and religions. Their writings.

Thanks,
Orangetom

"The Persians also claim Ibrahim, i.e. Abraham, for their founder, as well as the Jews. Thus we see that according to all ancient history the Persians, the Jews, and the Arabians are descendants of Abraham.(p.85) ...We are told that Terah, the father of Abraham, originally came from an Eastern country called Ur, of the Chaldees or Culdees, to dwell in a district called Mesopotamia. Some time after he had dwelt there, Abraham, or Abram, or Brahma, and his wife Sara or Sarai, or Sara-iswati, left their father's family and came into Canaan.

the guy says so himself : they came from mesopotamia

the oldest known civilization comes from a land called shumer/sumer which was mesopotamian, sumerians then moved to cannan and through the nomadic hyksos tribes of cannan to egypt, then lead by moses, back to cannan where israel and judah were founded judah is were the term jew comes from.

Orangetom,

I picked up a couple of things but most I am aware of. Not really with you on the Pharisee comment as I see it.

I am very aware of the Egyptian sun and moon gods. All of this comes from Nimrod and Semiramis from Babylon. The lie that deceives the whole world. Countless variations of the same lie all over the world.

Islam for instance, is a religion of the moon god. False god Allah is the moon god from Mecca way before Muhammed was born. In this version of the lie, the moon god is actually a male. Usually the moon god is a female. Stars by the way are the children of the sun and moon gods.

I am very aware of Gods chosen people keeping seperate in worship, customs and language, though as we know, many fell victim to the lie. That is however, how after two thousand years their was still a people to return to the promised land.

I think Prot0n wants to find out how we got off track on this. He seems to have a different origin on all of this. I'm interested in hearing his views.

What I am saying is that the customs and traditions of India are not the instructions given to the Hebrews under the Law of Moses. I am also saying that Hebrew traders branched out at different times across the world even down into Africa to establish trading colonys and routes. They disappeared after a time for different reasons.
What ProtOn is saying is that the nations of India had influence in the Hebrews or the Hebrew religion. Its origins. I disagree simply because of what you see in India and know of its history ..being mostly pagan in origins..the very thing the Hebrews were told to avoid. It is that simple.
Sectarian or Non Sectarian. Which is it?? are the Hebrew instructions to conduct themselves as sectarian...or non sectarian??? To join in with the rest of the world to be like them ..or to seperate from the rest of the world??
What the world wants to do..particularly certain variations of paganism is to say that all religions have the same origin therefore all religions are the same religion. This is not true. It is however very effective in seducing those who do not know much history or the patterns of operation of this kind of philosophy.

What you see in this country of America is alot of native indian names ..clearly marking the passage of Indians through here. Many states have indian names like Florida, Kansas, Minnesota, Michigan,Iowa, and a host of others. It indicates clearly that the indians passed through these states..understand?? Many of our local street names in this city are indian names. This does not mean the native indians had influences on the religion practiced by many here or in other places.

However ..privily ..without us being aware of it ..some are trying to bring us back to the nature worship of the Indians...we call this enviornment ..our earth mother .and it is a religion. Understand??

Thanks,
Orangetom

You are quite correct..The Persians are decendents of Abraham through his son Ishmael. This does not mean that they are Hebrews but it does mean that they are decendents through Abraham. You are correct on this.
Very sad the condition of relations between these two groups and for so long too.

Thanks,
Orangetom

Before the destruction of the Temple of Solomon in Jerusalem the power was in the priesthood and the temple. The Pharisees were a side show. They were powerful and noted but a sideshow. THe power was in the priesthood and the Government and Sanhedrin the council many of whom seemed to be pharisees.
Nevertheless prior to the destruction of Jerusalem and Solomon's temple this seemed to be the power structure among the Hebrews.
After the destruction of Jerusalem, Solomon's Temple and the Disaporia of the Hebrew people Worship in the manner of the Law of Moses was not possible. Hence the entrance and practice of the Synagogue and the rise in influence of the Pharisees. This continues unto today. We call them Rabbi's but the influence is Pharisee.

The classic example of the switch used in bringing occult hidden practices and passing them off as the Law of Moses..or the Law is the woman caught in adultery. The Pharisees claimed boastfully that they kept the Law faithfully in all parts.
Here we have a example of the Pharisees bringing a woman caught in adultery before Jesus. ...caught in the very act. They ask Jesus ..what say you rabbi? Jesus says after poking a stick round in the dirt....He who is without sin let him cast the first stone.
This is the famous statement which Jesus is quoted as saying by many preachers. This is not in its entirety what transpired here. There is more...Many preachers totally avoid what happened here in favor of their interpretation..they dont tell you what I am about to tell you about Phariseeism.

The Law of Moses stated that for Adultery ..they both must be stoned.
The Pharisees brought only the woman...caught in adultery..they did not bring the man. The Law which the Pharisees were keeping said that women get stoned for adultery and men do not. This is not the Law of Moses. Jesus knew this about them and their perversions of Gods Law..given to Moses..hence his statement to them about casting the first stone. The Pharisees had switched secretly the traditions of men...men dont get stoned for adultery and women do.....and they overlaid this as if it was the Law of Moses...the Law. IN short..the Pharisees had also switched Gods...secretly..prively. Few Hebrews did in fact know this..among all the gitter and glitz that the Pharisees were doing to establish their rightiousness...very similar to politics today.

This is something the Hebrews ,particularly the leadership, learned in their captivity in Babylon. They were working on it slowly before thier captivity and this too is recorded...disobedience to Gods Law. In Babylon they learned to practice this big time. This is obvious by the numbers who went into captivity and the contrast of the numbers who came back out of captivity. Many many ..chose to remain and not return.
This is also why I say many many Christians are following the same pattern today..just as were the Hebrews and Pharisees of olde.

This Pharisee tradition continues unto this day both among the Hebrews and also the Christians. Including the switching prively/secretly of the God. Undetected by many.

What this premise about the influence from India is attempting to do is weaken the claims of the Law of Moses and its origins ..hence eventually the whole structure of the School Master ..the Olde Covenant and by this the New Covenant as having Indian origins therefore more malliable and favorable to worldly doctrines. All religions have the same source...are the same religion. This is qute common once you know for what to look ..you will spot this fingerprint quite readily.

REmember this kind of stuff..this kind of pattern.

All religions are the same religion. They have the same source therefore all religions are the same religion.

The True Religion. The Restoration of the True Brotherhood.

THe methods of hijacking..one of which I have posted here ..secretly/prively. Without most even being aware of it.

Remember the fingerprint.

What you do not see is these people quoting God's Word..nor Gods Pattern..Gods Fingerprint. Always the traditons of men. Lots of studys and statistics.

This is important because this is what Phariseeism has become and Pharisees are alive and well today in our religious institutions, Public education and of course the body Politic...especially since the Body Politic funds public education. It is quite easy then to progress to seeing the religious fingerprit of the Body Politic...Phariseeism. Understand??? Working prively..often in secret..not for the American public but for someone else..obviously. Under the Colour of Law but in fact doing something else....Phariseeism

This technique ..of hijacking is quite common. It is they who must infer that the believers are hijacking. It must be done by confusion..I trust you know the name of the author of confusion??? Including our body politic.

Thanks,
Orangetom

Originally posted by Sun Matrix

Islam for instance, is a religion of the moon god. False god Allah is the moon god from Mecca way before Muhammed was born. In this version of the lie, the moon god is actually a male. Usually the moon god is a female. Stars by the way are the children of the sun and moon gods.

could you please verify this with external sources because i am wondering how a moon god could create the universe?

if the muslims belive in the god of ibrahim then dosnt that mean they worship the same god as jews and christians just my a differnt name?

The question you ask ..the format ..the pattern is precisely what Salman Rushdie had a price put on his head for doing. Making such claims of Islam as did Sun Matrix. This price was put on him by Holy men. This is not done in Judiasm. The two religions are not the same. Nor can they by this have the same origins.
This is also what happened to that Van Gogh fellow in the Netherlands. He criticised Islam and was killed for it . This is a religion of peace.

your sources for this through external sources are

Salman Rushdie..the Satanic Verses.

Mark Gabriel Islam and Terror.

Mark Gabriel is a converted Islamic Imam. He has a sentance of death upon him for telling the history of Islam and what he knows about its inner workings.

Salman Rushdie gives the history of Islam in its early days and the moon worship origins. This made many of the Islamic Holy men very upset. Eventually this brought a price on his head.


Thanks,
Orangetom

ok i understand but my opinion is that if the word Allah used to signify a moon diety then thats fine but after islam it meant 1 god because the understanding of religion changed through the Quoran.
Semetic people belived in a panthion of gods before Moses told them there was only 1 God, incidentally, i've read that Yahweh was part of said plethera and was beleived to be a storm god but this changed with a new understanding.
i think the same is true of persian religous beleifs, at one time they beleived in many gods and then Mohamed said there is 1.
I never said that Islam and Judaism are the same, i simply stated that they are both monotheastic religions that worship the God of Ibrahim/Abraham, therefore they do worship the same God and do STEM from the same origin:the prophet Abraham.
the meaning of whatever word attached to God is irrelevant because no man knows Gods name. when Moses asked for it he was told simply " I AM " or "YHWH" in hebrew.
Islam IS a religion of peace the word derives from Al-Salaam which means peace in arabic. just because one man listened to a misinformed immams order to kill the dutch journalist dosnt mean that Islam is a blood thirsty religion. I'm sure there are Rabbis who dont mind Palestinians being made homeless and getting killed so long as Israel bennefits.