Immigration laws to start civil war?

Marg6043, edit and correct me, please.
The US took Puerto Rico from Spain as a “spoils of war” in the 1898-1899 Spanish American War. We occupied Cuba but never “took” it. We left in 1907. We also took the Philippines and Guam plus Wake and Midway islands in the Pacific Ocean. The US Navy was still coal fired in the late 19th century. Every nation wanted its own coaling stations around the globe. The UK used the Falkland Islands for the purpose. Gen. Leonard Wood re-made Cuba from a Spanish knock-off of the French Haiti.

When we hit the beaches on Cuba, we had one soldier for every 260 Cubans. Overwhelming military strength. We immediately disarmed the militias, but then we re-trained them, and put them back to work as the Cuban Constabulary. There was never an insurgency in Cuba against the U.S. although there had been a running gun battle between guerillas and the Spanish Army for decades.

The U.S. needed Puerto Rico as a fortress to guard the up and coming Panama Canal. We designated PR as a Commonwealth and “annexed” it into the United States. Although Puerto Ricans cannot vote in U.S. elections, they are allowed to vote for a Delegate to Congress, along with other delegates from W-DC, Guam and the Pacific Territories.

I believe there are 5 delegates to the House. They are treated as if they were Congressional representatives in every respect except they cannot vote on the floor of the House on the final passage of a bill. They do vote in committees and receive the same pay and allowances as any other representative. They are chosen for 2 year terms. I believe Puerto Rico has “Home Rule” in all other aspects, but do not pay U.S. taxes.

I think they do pay the FICA which is not regarded technically as a tax. FICA is the Social Security and Medicare trust funds. Federal Insurance Contributions Act. Not to be confused with Medicaid or SSI. Security Supplemental Income. FICA replaced the older OASI. Old Age and Survivors Insurance.

[edit on 3/29/2006 by donwhite]

Well that is pretty much part of the story of the Puerto Rico.

Now what you don't find is that Puerto Rico was actually independent for a day before US came ashore and claimed the Island.

It took only 16 thousand American troops to invade the Island.

What they found was a population that was mostly uneducated, poor and of mix race.

While the rest of the Caribbean stay behind Puerto Rico prosper under the US occupation and that is the truth.

Since 1901 Puerto Rico has been allowed to have a Representation in Washington. But it was not until 1902 that PR was declare a territory.

Our official language was to remain Spanish but with English as our second language and to be display in every public place in the Island, later it was English to be our official language and has been fights since then because of that.

In 1017 we got granted citizenship by the congress, but it was not until 1927 that we got citizenship by residency because world war 1 and that gave Puerto Ricans the right to join the arm forces 18 thousand served.

In 1921 Puerto Ricans were allowed to migrate to the US for jobs,

In 1940 Puerto Ricans were given naturalization and rights under the US constitution as American citizens.

In 1952 PR became a commonwealth of the US and was not until 1967 that the people choose by votes.

In 1953 the biggest migration of PR came to the US mostly Florida, New York and New Jersey about 69 thousand.

We do not vote for president in the Island but as soon we move to the main Island and become residents of any state we are granted the right.

Marg, I understand what you are saying, in a way. It is good and dandy to be proud of where we came from, and to have our own culture, but we came here frome other countries to adapt to the United States, not the other way around.

I have to agree with what some of the people here are saying.

Although not all Mexicans are like this, there are groups from Mexico that are trying to get their people to accept this idea that the southern states of North America should be Mexican.

I was born in Cuba, raised in Spain, I am proud to have been born in Cuba, but my loyalty lies with the United States of America, the coutry that gave me everything, and has made me who I am today.

When people immigrate to the United States, their minds should be set to adapt to the rules and laws of the country, not to make the country adapt to them, whether these people are Mexican, Arab, Cuban, Chinese, or from wherever.

I have already shown this picture, but i have to show it again, because it proves a point, Mexicans are being conditioned by groups of their own to believe that the southern parts of the U.S. belongs to them...but the truth is that it doesn't.



I also see that if there is any civil strife in the U.S. is going to be a showdown between races, and this will spread like a wildfire, not only will it happen between Americans and illegal immigrants from Mexico, but we will have problems of innocents from both sides being harmed and even killed, and this will cause the problem to escalate if it is not somehow stopped.


[edit on 29-3-2006 by Muaddib]

Muaddib

If you read my thread on the amnesty agenda, I pretty much tell my stance on the whole immigration issue.

What the congress is trying to do is not the right thing to do, strict border enforcement and forcing businesses to comply with laws is what is needed.

No free passes for work and more bureaucratic BS.

Get to the point fix the problem and stop the slave work. This no good for the working class America and neither is for the poor illegal migrants that are been taking advantage off.

Make hiring illegal a felony and you see how US will not be so attractive to illegal immigrants.

Originally posted by Street Scholar
All this talk of revolution (usually called civil war improperly) and none of it mentions the current demonstrations.

source

Immigration rights advocates more than 500,000 strong marched in downtown Los Angeles on Saturday, demanding that Congress abandon attempts to make illegal immigration a felony and to build more walls along the border.

The massive demonstration, by far the biggest of several around the nation in recent days, came as President Bush prodded Republican congressional leaders to give some illegal immigrants a chance to work legally in the U.S. under certain conditions.

These demonstrations dwarf the current anti-war movement! As I see it, the biggest potential for a civil war (currently) comes from these protests. What if these laws were passed, and/or someone were to catalyst these demonstrations into violence? Hypothetically, if every illegal immigrant in the US were to all of a sudden become felons, who's to stop this from escalating?

I don't necessarily believe this will happen, but with all the recent discussion or revolution this seems much more probable the other situations discussed.

Mod edit: url fix

[edit on 26-3-2006 by Riwka]

What sould have been done, is for the military to surround these ILLEGALS and march them straight back across the border!!

The world is not the USA's to fix. We have our own problems right here. Until we take care of them, THE REST OF THE WORLD BE DAMNED!! If your people want so much to come here, then we must be doing something right...(Although this is a LIE according to the bleeding heart LIBERALS) Fight for oue rights in your own homelands. It is not our taxpayers way to support your asses!! Irf you can't do it on your own (Which seems to be the case...ASK for help) Otherwise, you should be shot as invaders, coming into a soveriegn country!!!!!

I doo not pay taxes so that you can come to MY country and benefit from our SOCIAL GRACES...WE have enough people who are American citizens who take advantage of the system!!! If you want my help, bringing your country into the 21st century...I'm more than willing to spend my tax dollars helping you do this, than having you INVADE MY COUNTRY!!!

I'd just like to point out that odds are everyone at those protests wasn't an illegal in fact odds are a lot of them were not only citizens but born here as well. So surrounding them and deporting them enmasse is kind of retarded. Contrary to what appears to be popular belief here just because someone has darker skin does not automatically mean they are illegal aliens.

Originally posted by boogyman
I'd just like to point out that odds are everyone at those protests wasn't an illegal in fact odds are a lot of them were not only citizens but born here as well. So surrounding them and deporting them enmasse is kind of retarded. Contrary to what appears to be popular belief here just because someone has darker skin does not automatically mean they are illegal aliens.

No one mentioned about rounding up the protesters... We're talking about the ILLEGAL immigrants, not the protesters. Stop trying to throw the racism card into play here, its really pathetic. As stated before, there haev been countless arguments for WHY we should ahve the border controlled and WHY there must be a stop to the constant flow of illegal aliens. At least stop and read those arguments before you throw out the "race card" into play.

posted by k4rupt

posted by boogyman: I'd just like to point out everyone at those protests wasn't an illegal . . odds are a lot of them were citizens born here . . So surrounding them and deporting them en mass is kind of retarded. [Edited by Don W]

No one mentioned rounding up the protesters . . We're talking about ILLEGAL immigrants . . As stated before, there have been countless arguments WHY we should have the border controlled and WHY there must be a stop to the constant flow of illegal aliens. [Edited by Don W]

I enrolled in college in 1956. At Richmond, Ky. I began to read a lot. One of the hot button topics then was the increasing number of undocumented workers in the American Southwest. I visited LA in the late 1960s. It was a joke you should not take your car to a car wash unless you spoke Spanish. People from south of the border seeking work were employed in large numbers in the Imperial Valley. (Which by the way is owned by one of the most subsidized gangs of rich men in one place on the earth.) Point? So what’s new?

Jay Leno said last night he dreamed all the undocumented workers were gone from the United States. He went to the grocery and found lettuce was priced at $3 a head! Hmm? Let’s not shoot ourselves in the foot here.

If we refuse to raise the minimum wage to $10 an hour, then I would like to see any person already here who has worked 6 months and has no felony record be given a green card. Let prospective workers get a picture ID and social security number at the border, renewable every 6 months on the same terms: have work and no felonies. Let us get over this too much demagoged issue and move on to other more important problems facing America and the world!

[edit on 3/30/2006 by donwhite]

Originally posted by CSRules
What sould have been done, is for the military to surround these ILLEGALS and march them straight back across the border!!

Call me crazy but that seems to be exactly what this guy is advocating here. Look maybe you aren't racist but to say that there aren't substantial numbers of racists in the "anti-illegal" movement is intellectually dishonest. Even if I am exagerating the amount of racism (which I doubt) there can be no denial there is a lot of vicious stereotyping going on, which is practically the same thing. For this fact alone the movement loses a lot of it's credibillty. Which is unfortunate because there are serious issues at stake here.

Mod Note: Please Trim Quotes – Please Review This Link.

[edit on 30-3-2006 by Benevolent Heretic]

Why don't we just annex Mexico. The want to come here. They are protesting to come here. Guess what! Come here, your our 51st state. Before everyone cries out, just listen...

Mexico, recently came across one of the biggest oil fields to date. Make them the 51st state, then that oil is Americas. We can reduce our dependence on foriegn oil. Tell the Middle East to pound sand, and that corrupt govt. down there will have to follow our laws. We need the oil, they want to come here to benefit from our ecomomy...It's win - win.

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[edit on 1-4-2006 by Riwka]

*removed inappropriate comment*

[edit on 1-4-2006 by sanctum]

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[edit on 1-4-2006 by Riwka]

Originally posted by CSRules
Why don't we just annex Mexico...........

Mexico, recently came across one of the biggest oil fields to date. Make them the 51st state, then that oil is Americas.............

Thats a point I havent even considered. The protests have been extremely peaceful. Nobody has been killed. There hasnt been any rioting. Pretty peaceful.

Im not so sure the hispanics in the American southern states want those states to go back to Mexico. Which country pays more? Which has a better welfare system? Which has better schools? Which is more stable? Which has a better military?

Honestly, I havent done the research to be absolutely certain that the US is the answer to all those questions. You simply have to look at the issues and weigh them.

As far as Texas goes, the US won Texas in a war with Mexico. To win Texas back, Mexico will have to declare war on the US. I'd put my money on the US in that bet.

Maybe 10 years from now, the US will decide (afterall, Mexico did just find all that oil) that invading Mexico is its only option to stopping the inflow of immigrants.

In certainy in every person's right to protest for what they feel they are just. But this "uprising" has occured almost overnight.

"Follow the light," said the deer.

Lets make sure we know whats behind the light (US strategy?) before we follow it.

All:

Please avoid racism and don't behave in an abusive or hateful manner,
don't threaten or attack other members!!



[edit on 1-4-2006 by Riwka]

You seem to be forgetting that they are 'illegal' immigrants, they broke the law when they entered our country illegally. They have no constitutional rights because they are not legal citizens, they have not sworn an oath to America & it's government.

If they want to come to America and live here they should go through the INS and seek citizenship legally.

Also when these illegals commit crimes they just flee back to Mexico and avoid being brought to justice. When they rape and murder people they get away with it, it's ridiculous!

Our Congress has no backbone, they commit treason for allowing our sovereignty to be erroded do to illegal immigration, we are being invaded by people who openly advocate the murder of whites, blacks, and other non-Hispanic peoples, they openly admit they want an ethnic war to break out and that they want to take over the Western and Southern States and merge them with Mexico and Congress and the United States government does nothing!

Some 40 hospitals have closed in California because of illegals skipping out on the bill, teachers quit the public schools because none of the illegal immigrants kids speak English nor do they desire to learn our language either.

Eventually all these 'day labor' jobs are going to run out, then what jobs will the illegals go after? Fastfood jobs, working in department stores and so forth, then where will that leave the American middle class?

Our nation is collapsing and a few have the guts to openly say anthing about it. When the Middle Class is gone and were are only left with the Rich and Poor will you bother to speak up then? Or will you just stare at you feet and still do nothing.

This country is going to hell and no one is doing a thing to stop it. Our infastructure is being sold to foreign countries, war is sapping this country dry and our National Debt is $8.3 Trillion dollars and rising daily while illegals flood into our country by the thousands everyday. In the end all this will lead up to the collapse of the United States and we will all be under a dictatorship or some kind of serfdom.

Well folks it has been a nice run, 230 years wasn't a bad run for this Republic, it will be shame to see it end. I love my country, I hope you do too. Please wake up and inform those around of what is really going on.

Hey, maybe we should have a look at what it requires to get into Mexico. One would expect theirs to be very open with the way they accuse the US of bigotry and demands for amnesty for Mexican illegal aliens.

www.mexconnect.com...

What do I need to get one?

Proof of citizenship - this can be either a passport or a certified copy of your birth certificate accompanied by a photo ID. A passport is the document of preference

Be prepared to fill out the information requested which includes your place of birth, your destination and the reason for your visit.

Why would they need to know all this??? Looks like bigotry to me. Obviously geared at keeping "undesirables" out. Hmmm

You will need to submit the following:

A letter in Spanish addressed to the proper immigration authorities - check with your nearest Mexican Consulate about this.

What??? In spanish? What the heck is that all about??? Can't they learn English? I have rights ya know. I have my cultural identity that they must accept. This is pure bigotry. US immigration is expected to speak spanish, why can't their immigration officials learn English? Because they are haters, that's why.

Proof of income. This figure changes constantly. It is based on minimum wage (250 times the minimum wage in Mexico City) and fluctuates with the exchange rate. The current amount is $8,700.00 pesos per month for the applicant and $4,350.00 pesos per month for each dependent. This proof could be in the form of a bank statement showing your investments generate that amount or more, it could also be a letter from your consulate stating you receive social security, a pension, etc.
The administrative "Fee" is $680.00 Pesos.

Proof of income?? Are they insinuating that I am moving to Mexico to live off the Mexicans? I guess only Mexicans are willing to work for a living. Hitler didn't die in a bunker, he moved to Mexico City.

Submit a letter signed by you and two Mexican witnesses stating that you are an upstanding citizen living harmoniously within the community. Include with this a copy of each witnesses' photo ID.

OMG!!! I'm not Mexican, so I must be a criminal. Bunch of hate mongers! What gives them the right to question my honesty? This is overtly racist! It's also an attempt at intimidation. I bet they expect this to be in Spanish also, obvious attempt to supress my cultural identity. Even though I'm not an actual citizen of Mexico, I demand that this provision be removed!

Things to Remember:

If our obtained your FM-3 through a Mexican Consulate in your country, you must register it within 45 days of your arriving in Mexico with the local Immigration office.

Why? Is it because I'm a white US citizen? Some more obvious bigotry on the part of Mexicans. What are they a sovereign nation or something? Who are they to decide who is allowed into Mexico, who can work in Mexico and how long you may stay in Mexico? Racist! Fascists!

This leads me to believe that Mexico is a very closed and bigoted society. Why else would they enforce such extravagant immigration laws. This requires massive protests on our part.

Originally posted by notbuynit
This leads me to believe that Mexico is a very closed and bigoted society. Why else would they enforce such extravagant immigration laws. This requires massive protests on our part.

Just be glad your not south of the border trying to get in. You think they enforce all that? Guess you have never heard of payola? It's easy to get a work visa for Mexico in comparison to the US. What kind of work do you plan on doing in Mexico anyway? How do you plan on working in Mexico, if you don't read and write spanish?

travel.state.gov...

It's even easier to visit Mexico, they just wave you through.



[edit on 1-4-2006 by Regenmacher]

Well what many fail to understand with the illegal immigration is the conditions that are plaguing the Mexican citizens to the point that they face all kind of dangers to come to the US.

Also I did some research on the NAFTA agreement and its failure to benefit the working conditions and create the jobs to keep Mexicans at home.

Remember that NAFTA is all American made and the failure is also the problem of the increased migration of Mexican citizens into the US in the last 10 years.

Originally posted by Landis

Originally posted by Escrotumus

Im tired of my streets littered by trash and spanish signs everywhere.

Bing, bing, bing, bing!

This is the United States. We speak E N G L I S H here. I resent the fact that I have to ask for my own stinking language when I make a phone call for customer service.

If y'all (foreigners) want to live here, learn to speak the gd (not gang-related) language.

Edit: For clarification.

[edit on 3/27/2006 by Landis]

After reading a couple of your posts, i cant help but think you have deep rooted problems with foreigners.

Let me tell you if you didnt know, that every civilized nation teaches their own language in elementary school as well as time devoted to learning another language. This is done to expand the childrens horizons. I am sure you will come back and tell me they only teach English because WE ARE SOOOO IMPORTANT.

Illegal imigrants, Vicente Fox and president Bush deserve a good swift kick where the sun dont shine, this is true.

I dont see any problem however, with the greatest nation adopting both English and Spanish. You can always press #1 for Englissh.

Just be glad your not south of the border trying to get in. You think they enforce all that?

Yes, I do. You're not going to teach me much about Mexico, I lived on the border for ten years.

Guess you have never heard of payola?

Quite familliar with it. They prefer US dollars to pesos.

It's easy to get a work visa for Mexico in comparison to the US. What kind of work do you plan on doing in Mexico anyway? How do you plan on working in Mexico, if you don't read and write spanish?

Why should I learn spanish? They should learn english. I'm not giving up my culture because I immigrated there. What are you, some kind of fascist?

It's even easier to visit Mexico, they just wave you through.

On our southern border, not so on theirs.

www.cis.org...

After visiting this frontier, Gabriela Rodríguez, the UN Human Rights Commissioner’s special rapporteur on migrants’ rights said: "Mexico is one of the countries where illegal immigrants are highly vulnerable to human rights violations and become victims of degrading sexual exploitation and slavery-like practices, and are denied access to education and healthcare."43

And yet they dare protest "harsh" treatment here.

Rafael Fernández de Castro, one of Mexico’s most distinguished academics and editor of the Spanish-language version of Foreign Affairs, has criticized Foreign Secretary Castañeda for "forgetting about Central America" even as he pursues a "honeymoon with the United States." Mexico, the scholar charged, has implemented a policy toward illegal migrants from Central America that is "more racist and discriminatory than that of the United States on [Mexico’s] northern border."44

Here's my favorite quote.

Chiapan finca owners are frequently in the news, notably in the Tapachula and Guatemala City press, for their Simon Legree-like care of workers. The wealthy growers prefer Guatemalans over Mexicans to work on their plantations, where they raise mangos, bananas, coffee, and dozens of other crops in the fertile, steamy ambiance of southern Chiapas. Echoing U.S. employers’ claims about Americans, these finqueros insist that Mexicans will not do the hard work of planting,

Wow, does that ever sound familliar. The underlining is mine.

By allowing illegal aliens to flow across the border unchecked it helps nobody but the wealthy here and in Mexico, notably Mr. Fox. The only ones that will force a change in Mexico are the very ones Fox and other elites are pushing north. Mexico will continue to dwell in poverty and corruption. I could just say let them all in and feel all fuzzy inside like a neolib but I don't believe you can cure a disease by medicating the symptom. It creates a burden on our system while allowing poverty to continue in Mexico. sending more money (aid) there will only further empower the wealthy. None will reach the under classes. Put up the wall and let the chips fall where they will. Stay out of their business and stop allowing them to scapegoat us for all their problems.

Millions world wide patiently wait to come here while mexicans cross the border unchecked. That's not fair. There's plenty of people in more destitue conditions in regions like Africa that would love to come here. They would come here, assimilate, provide all the cheap labor we supposedly need and be a hell of a lot more greatful for it.

Edited by member to change quotes to external quotes.



[edit on 1-4-2006 by notbuynit]