Got my first gun

Originally posted by arius
Any of you guys have recomendations. I'm looking to get a gun I can shoot a lot for a little money. Just to go out plinkin targets to relax...
...I like the feel of the AK-47 but the ammunition is the same as the SKS and the guy at WalMart told me it was expensive now because thats what the terrorists in Iraq are using.

Well, duhh (to the guy at Wal-Mart, not you), of course that's the ammo the terrorists are using, that's the ammo that armed Iraq pre-'03.

SKS - Don't touch it with a bargepole if it's Chinese-made. Cheap knock-off peice of crap. Couldn't hit the broadside of a barn if you were inside the barn. BUT, if it's Czech-made then no problem.

SKS is not a Kalashnikov, it's a Siminov. It doesn't have a full-auto function and it doesn't have a removable mag. Those you have to do yoursefl. Mag is no great drama, you can buy them, turn your SKS into an SKK. Altering the safety, I don't know the law in your area (ie the US!).

AK - if you can get a Valmet it's the holy grail of AK's, Finnish-made and probably expensive as hell. There are US firms that make AKs, buy one of them. Again, do not buy a Chinese Type 56, same advice as before.

Ruger. Well, how many times have you hear bad things about Rugers?

As for Soviet ammo...The AK 47 is the most numerous rifle in the world. How available do you think Soviet intermediate 7.62mm ammo is? Think VERY.

If you really just want to target shoot (plink at cans, whatever) then I reccommend the great, all-American Winchester 30-30 lever action. It'll teach you real skills.

I am so bloody jealous of the US gun-laws......

Here in Australia, we as the public can only dream of owning some of the semi or full auto carbines available to yoiu there. Only police, and certain farmers may use a small calibre semi-auto if they have a genuine excuse for it.

As the average member of the public, we have to put up with either a 2 shot shot-gun, or bolt action rifles that hold no -more than about four rounds on average. I myself own a .243 Reminton ADL synthetic with a 4-16x50 mildot scope on it.

I use it to do target practise at the range to get my skills up and will be taking hunting this winter. We cannot keep any rifles in the house here unless they are locked inside an accredited safe and the ammo must be locked elsewhere.......mate! If someone trying to break into your house or attack you, by the time you can get you gun and ammo into it, he's probably within your danger vicinity if you know what I mean.

My next rifle shall be a Remington 7600 pump action in .308 calibre which holds about 6 rounds i think with a laser point on it for home security work and I shall be getting a safe put in my room with a secret quick release opening mechanism for emergencies.

By the way, did you yanks know that here in Australia, the law states that if an intruder is in your property, slips on your kids skateboard and breaks his leg, then he is liable to sue you for damages, and also if an intruder takes you T.V and is running away from the house, then you cant touch him, and have to let him go or use as they say "adequate force" which if you king-hit him from behind while he's running away with your t.v might be deemed excessive and you cop a harsher fine than him.

I was talking to a copper here once, and he said off the record, that if you ever catch someone in your property, bash the crap out of them or even shoot him in the leg and drag him out into the street and dump him there then call the cops to come and pick him up - coz if it happened on your property, then you are liable for his damages.

Aussie law suck eh?

Melbourne_Militia

[edit on 26-3-2006 by Benevolent Heretic]

i'm happy to see that this thread got away from teh gun good vs. gun bad issue.
i've got a mossy 500 that i've had for over a decade. it gets cleaned maybe once a year, hits what i'm aiming at with any barrel or choketube-mostly- and goes BANG! every time i slap da trigger. what more could you want from a firearm.

good choice and i hope your scattergun gives you as many years of loyal service as mine has.

My guns have never been used in killing someone. They have been used in hunting and target shooting.

Most incidents where guns are used to prevent crime or bodily injury ..just the presence of a gun is enough to curb those with some sanity left. If not than one needs to be prepared to go further. This is a individual call.
I never intend to be in a position where I look to a government official to protect me on this level. They mostly collect data to support more government officials. This is known.

I build submarines and aircraft carriers for a living. I am also involved in nuclear fueling.
If I cant be trusted with a gun...you and others have much bigger problems on your hands. I have in my hands the lives and futurers of thousands every time I handle a fuel cell. Think further than your provincial beliefs. You must live in a very safe enviornment provided/secured by someone else to afford such beliefs.
A doctor often has the lives and futures in peoples hands...so does a truck driver on the public roads. How about the crane operators around whom I work every day..How many other lives do they have in thier hands daily ...in addition to being on the public roads. These people cant be trusted with a gun?? What on earth are you thinking. Not all of us here are going to or be willing to live in fear and trembling of everything. We are not intrested in this belief system. We will make our own thank you.

Orangetom

I just get tired of all this provincialness of some people to not look beyond thier immediate fears about everything.

to the previous poster. Mossberg is a good shotgun. A good value for the money. Very popular around here. The screw in choke features have added much flexability to the shotgun. Pitty they did not have them when I bought my Ithaca. This was a great idea on someones part.

Thanks,
Orangetom

hey..thanks for that advice on the SKS series of rifles.
I am thinking of getting one simply because they are so reliable and the ammo so readily available. These rifles are very reasonably priced too.
I did not know which ones to stay away from and your post gives me a starting point.
Military ball is fine for most of what I want. Cheap too. Readily available here. Anything else I will buy commercially in ammo or reload specifically for it.
Most of them I have handled have horrible trigger pulls but this can be handled by a gunsmith and there are plenty here.

Thanks for the info in your post,
Orangetom

Originally posted by orangetom1999
I build submarines and aircraft carriers for a living. I am also involved in nuclear fueling.
If I cant be trusted with a gun...you and others have much bigger problems on your hands. I have in my hands the lives and futurers of thousands every time I handle a fuel cell.
Orangetom

After I chose to join the Air Force a recruiter from the Navy asked if I wanted to be a Submariner working on the nuclear engines. I laughed in his face. I wonder now if it might not have been so bad. What do you think. I mean you deal with the stuff all the time and I was wondering about radiation and stuff. I had heard of some folks who would sit on the nuke tipped warheads to take pictures. Not gonna get my jewels that close to radiation!!

decided to retract my statement

[edit on 28-3-2006 by superduperman]

YOu probably did right joining the Air Force. Very few people can handle the seperation from what they think is normal here on land. Submarining requires a very different mindset and the ability to be in a kind of isolation from people and home for long periods of time, close confined too. Very diciplined individuals. Few make the grade. This is not to try and cut you down or any such thing. I'm just saying there are more complex problems here than radiation exposure.
As to exposure....ever though about how much radiation ..not nuclear but radiation you get in front of a television set...year in year out. How about with so many cell phone towers going up all around. Microwaves..not just on microwave ovens. I know it interfears with my AM radio reception when I get close to these towers and they are located with overlapping coverage. We are under a radiation umbrella all the time and often dont know it. HOw about in front of our computers expecially if we have one of the older video displays ..not these flat screens.
My point is that most people are totally unawares how much potentially radiation of all types is going on around them all the time. When you have periods of large solar flares...you have radiation levels of all types increasing here on earth when this radiation level gets here. The news and education dont often dwell on this ..I just happen to know this being a ham radio operator.
Radiation levels on operating US submarines are normally very low. You dont have to worry much about it unless you have a casualty. There are far more dangerous things to worry about aborad a operating nuclear submarine than radiation levels.

Anyway we are getting off topic.
There is a gun show ..this weekend here in town. Supposed to be a big one. I'm planning to go and look at SKS rifles keeping in mind HowlrunnerIV's advice in his post above. Havent had the time for one in awhile. Planning to go this time..to make the time and put other things aside.

Thanks for your post The One God Jesus,
Orangetom

Been poking around, Orange, and I'm jealous. I hit gunbroker, and was shocked at the rampant affordability of firearms in your country, and (generally) without the arbitrary restrictions we find here in Canuckistan. I mean I knew, before... but still.

At any rate, crime keeps going up here. Our gun registry is full of holes, and the mayor of Toronto wants to ban handguns, the moron. So, while I can have some seriously cheap, seriously short shotguns up here, I'm starting to wonder how long that will last here too. I mean, you buy a gun to protect yourself from crime, right? So why ban them in the places where the most crime occurs (urban centers)?

I just don't get it. Also, besides this rant, Yugoslavia SKS's are supposed to be quite good.

DE

Anything Yugo-made (and I mean Yugo, not Serb, Croat or Bosnian...) is good. It had to be, the Yugoslav arms industry was an export-for-profit operation, not a charitable exercise for revolutionaries, like the USSR and China.

The Yugoslavs had good quality control, but the Czech's were, and are, still the best. Remember, these are the guys that invented the Bren Gun. If you've used, or heard of, a Brno product, that tells you how good the Czech small-arms industry was and is.

Only Brno I've ever used was a bolt-action .22 with a Tasco scope and it was, well...SWEET.

It's the same with East-bloc handguns, get the Czech-made ones. I guess it's like comparing Beretta with Taurus...just cause it looks like a duck, walks like a duck and talks like a duck...

Hey Folks,
Hope your weekends are going fine. I made it to the gun show today and bought a Yugoslavian SKS still in the preservative. I am going to clean it up tomorrow. This one has the sites for the grenade launcher and the bayonet. It ran about $200. I dont even have any ammo for it but am not in any hurry. Plenty to be found with little hunting for this ammo.I bought a book on it so as to be able to take it apart. I will seperate the stock from it and clean it up with kerosene inside and out.
What I intend to do is apply some of that silicone grease ..a very light coat after it is cleaned of the preservative.
I'll let you folks know how it goes.

DeusEx,
I am very sorry to hear of your gun problems up in Canada. Also your crime problems. I think in the end the trend here may be similar. I know that historically a politically affluent government does not like a armed citizenry. They like subjects ..not citizens. I fear that this is the trend eventually here in the states also. Especially if certain partys get into office. The Irony not told to most of the public is that these politicians who "feel our pain" dont want us armed but have arms themselves.or armed bodyguards. Sickening and ironic. I dispise this type of "feel good" politics. It is nothing more than hijacking the political system for the benifit of the political party..not the public.

Thanks,
Orangetom

to whomever posted 2 posts above me:
the best guns come from with either the germans, isrealis, or americans. look at the quality of, say, the H&K's, or the colt (yeah, i know it was sold to a non-american company but you get the idea.) the austrian's know their way a around a handgun (glock), so it ain't a hard and fast rule. just keep it in mind when at the gun show.
their isn't much wrong with easter-bloc weapons as long as you pay attention and de your research about what searial# came from what factory. example: i've got a WW2/korean vintage rifle in 7.62x5.4 that is a great shooter. it is ugly as sin, but very functional for my needs. the hard part was finding one with serial number that match on all parts of the weapon that have serial numbers. incindentally, matching serial numbers are a good way of assessing the quality of non-collector firearms, as weapons that have been issued to troops often have parts from all over God's green earth, and a mismatched parts weapon is never as reliable/accurate as one that has matchign #s. (remember non-matching #'s usually mean the weapon has been issued and not keep in storage, where they sit in nice crates in some wharehouse covered in cosmoline, sitting in wharehouse = not being knocked around, dropped, ec.)

good luck and happy hunting


Boots out

Spent part of the day learning to dismantle this Yugoslavian SKS. It was not all that difficult. I had expected disassembly to be more difficult but then I realized that even in the Eastern block it needed to be somewhat GI proof. Then cleaned it and particularly punched out the barrel so that I could take a close look inside. It doesnt seem to have had much barrel wear. Still no ammo for it but no hurry here. I will eventually remove the bayonet. NOt much use for it here.
Will obtain ammo some time in the next couple of weeks and try it out. The trigger pull as expected is not up to speed with my 1903 Springfield or my M1 Garand but that can be changed by a gunsmith. Lots of take up in the trigger before you feel the mechanism engage.

Thanks,
Orangetom

I lot of good info here. I learned a lot from this thread.

Update - I still haven't even shot my shotgun yet. A freind is supposed to take me the firing range. Hoefully he'll be in the mood THIS weekend.

If not, I'll just go to another fiends multi-acre property with a cabin on it. It's been a while since I've felt the kick of a 12 guage.

After reading everyones posts, I am resisiting the thought of my next one. It is easier to resist sisnce I haven't shot mine yet.

That will soon change.

To those against guns - relax. I plan to use it for hunting and protection. I will try for one deer and one turkey per year - which I will eat. It is mainly for hunting in the day - if ever it comes - where it'll cost half a leg for a loaf of bread.

The world is overpopulated and if ever civil order fails, only the strong will survive - once again.

Pray it never does.

Boots,

I was speaking only about former communist bloc weapons manufacturers. Of those, the Czechs are the best. Of world manufacturers, the Czechs are still one of the best.

Of western manufactuers, I choose them based on their individual weapons, except for FN of Belgium.

If I want a shotgun I'd most probably choose Remington, maybe Franchi if it isn't for hunting.

If I want a handgun I'll take a Browning from FN.

In rifle I'll take Lee-Enfield bolt action or (if I could get one) a Lithgow SLR or the afore-mentioned Brno .22.

In smg it'd be Israeli (Uzi), German (HK, MP 40), Swedish (Carl Gustav), Australian (Owen), US (M3).

Orangetom,

Careful removing the bayonet. What type do you have, the folding spike?
Dad's had that and he removed it, then found it was necessary to keep the cleaning rod in place! If your rifle shoots straight the bayonet mount is a good place to put a hunting bipod!

[edit on 3-4-2006 by HowlrunnerIV]

its got the folidng bayonette and it is still in place. i don't know about the cleaning rod, cause i haven't cleaned it since i got and yes it came with the vintage cleanig kit and xtra mag pouch thing. before i shot it the first time i ran rod a patch thru the barrel to remove the packing grease. i'm sure the groups it shoots would tighten up if i gave it a proper cleaning. any suggestions to get the cosmoline off of it. that stuff is like try to remocoe dried snot. no fun.

boots out

p.s. i don't use it enough or a long enough distances to necessitate a bipod.

Good point about the bayonet. It is the blade type not the spike. I will keep that in mind. I have a regular cleaning kit. A single long rod with handle and the multiple piece screw together rods.

Boots,
I used a cleaning solvent...Kerosene..for my K1 kerosene heaters..to remove the preservative. I wet my brush and punched it through the barrel through several cycles. Wetting it again and repeating the process. Careful about any gas ports. You want to make sure these dont get clogged up.
I wet a cloth rag and wiped the metal parts to remove any other preservative. Then I dried this up with a clean olde t-shirt I had around to remove the kerosene. Then I cleaned the barrel again with regular gun cleaning solvent. Then after that I punched out the barrel with clean patchs. Finally coating a clean patch with some silicon grease...light coat I punched this through the barrel again. Also wiped the metal parts of the gun with a light coat of this same silicone greast to act as a water or moisture barrier.
If this rifle performs well enough at the range..I am considering getting one of those synthetic stocks for it to replace the wooden stock.

Thanks,
Orangetom

woopy its in the trunk of your car i feel better now...lets all put guns in our trunks...i guess if some static ocurs while your around your trunk you will be A.O.K. never know when your going to need a killing machine...

Static most likely wont set off a gun under most if not all circumstances, well I suppose a loaded muzzle loader might go off if a spark ignites the powder...

There are rifles that fire bullets with electric pulses now though.

And a trunk is simply a gun locker if you don't have one...

If you don't like guns don't discuss in this topic and don't get a gun, good luck if you find a robber in your home!