Young Conservatives

Well I don't support Bush. In fact I feel pretty betrayed by Bush, but that is because instead of removing (or even attempting to remove) much of the socialist malaze that has covered this country, he added more with a huge discusting prescription drug plan.

He supported CAFTA after NAFTA was shown to be a poor choice.

He supported a bad SS plan that would not fix the problem.

Bush is no conservative, so here are my ideas.

1) Cut Social Security over time to zero.

2) Cut Federal Welfare, Medicare, and Medicaid over time to zero.

3) Remove Free Trade agreements.

4) Remove the Federal Income Tax over time to zero and replace it with nothing.

5) Remove all or at least most overseas military bases.

6) Cut all reocurring global aid.

7) Cut all government grants and subsidies to industries that can not turn a buck.

8) Replace current business environmental, regulatory, and tax legislation with more streamlined and effective legislation that would allow them to do business while maintaining reasonable standards so as not to poison our country.

9) Now actually enforce them.

10) Cut the Department of Education, Department of Energy, Department of Health and Human Services, and Department of Homeland Security.

11) Remove Federal Earmarks.


Any thoughts on these?

Why cut social security? Unless you stop taxing for it you mean, then yes that would work. The tax money that goes into Social Security is usually used for something else, why SS is broke, because the money that was in it is now in a bank account of Halliburton somewhere in Switzerland. But yes, if you stop taxing for social security, and stop having social security, it means that money goes to what the person who earned it wants/needs. Strange idea though, tax 50cents from a person, then after 40-50 years give them 10cents for every 50cents they put in. WHy not let them keep the 50cents in the first place so they can invest it, or save it, or buy the house/care they need for retirment. Except of course the other 40cents goes to the Pentagon now...

Welfare/Medicaid to 0? No, now, take money and use it to find the frauds. Instead of going "Hey, a black person wants welfare, give it to them." See what year cadillac they drive, how much gold and diamonds they have in their ears, around their neck, and on their fingers. Find out how much money they make illegally from drugs/pimping instead of going "Hey, they haven't had a job since 1995, yet drive a 2004 caddy, have a ring with a diamond the size of a walnut, and 4 30inch chains made of gold, give them welfare money." I am sick and tired of seeing people driving around in cars I can't afford who are on welfare! But there are people who need it, there job just got shipped overseas, there student loans were stopped, so forth and now need money to pay rent/buy food. DOn't they have a limit though, like can only be on it for two years at a time?

No more free trade? What kind of commie are you? ree trade, business vs businees, isn't that capitalism?

Federal income tax... Need roads, and hospitals, and cops, you can't expect to get everything but pay nothing for it. But make it equal! charge a flat tax rate instead of going "Ok you make X so pay A, you make Y so pay B."

With overseas bases, yes remove most, I don't think we are still worried about Russia invading the rest of Europe are we? Take those people and move into the hotspots, East Asia, Middle East.

Global Aid? Depends on who it goes to. Some I would stop, like most of Africa where they don't have the same dictator they did last week or the week before, and before that, and before that... SOme places do need it, in emergency situations. So maybe instead of just paying through the nose to everyone save some and when an emergency hits then play Santa Claus and try to get some good PR.

Oh this we agree! And stop payiong for BS! More money goes to Billionaires then to the poor! Who gets the government to pay for birthday parties that cost millions of dollars? Boeing! Who gets the government to pay for golf tees and balls and clubs? Who got 40million just for existing? A GERMAN car company. Gee, take those millions and do something useful with it, like buy armor for troops instead of golf bags for billionaires.

EPA does just fine, its the FDA I worry about. Tap water is almost always cleaner then bottle, why? EPA has higher standards then FDA. SO you can't have this or this in tap, but it's ok to dump a gallon of mercury in bottle water because the FDA standards are lower.(not literally, but bottle water usually has high levels of nitrates, bad things if you don't know what those are, that aren't found in Tap because again EPA is higher then FDA) What we need to do is enforce the laws out there! Also, around here a company can !buy! other companies stuff. Like Company A puts out X, which is 40% lower then the standards, so Company B buys that 40% and produces 140% more then the standard allows, because they bought Companies 40% pollution that they didn't produce. Disgusting huh?
Continued, as you said, Enforce them!

Cut Dept. of Education? What more is there to cut? Kids are graduationg thinking creation is science, Earth is flat, and can't even do basic math. Why do you want our kids tro be even more stupid? So they vote republican? Dept. of Energy, what parts? Need to invest in new energy instead of making the current crap factories that spew out stuff so toxic it can't even be described richer. Nuclear plants, when funded and kept up to code, produce more energy and cleaner energy. Would solve the power outages in California. Health? Not only want people to be stupid want them to be sick? I guess that makes sense, stupid and sick people die, make more room for the rest, but not the way I would do it... And with DHS, instead of spending billions to wiretap PETA, Greenpeace, ACLU, and John McCain how about, IDK, Protecting the Country! If they did their job no prob, but they spend more time listening to John McCain talk to his wife then they do securing our borders.

Earmark? Lost me on that one, explaination asked for, not exactly sure what you mean.

Devin: I'll go through these one by one so we can maintain relative clarity on the many separate issues.

Originally posted by DevinS
Why cut social security? Unless you stop taxing for it you mean, then yes that would work. The tax money that goes into Social Security is usually used for something else, why SS is broke, because the money that was in it is now in a bank account of Halliburton somewhere in Switzerland. But yes, if you stop taxing for social security, and stop having social security, it means that money goes to what the person who earned it wants/needs. Strange idea though, tax 50cents from a person, then after 40-50 years give them 10cents for every 50cents they put in. Why not let them keep the 50cents in the first place so they can invest it, or save it, or buy the house/care they need for retirement. Except of course the other 40cents goes to the Pentagon now...

Well yes, the SS spending and the SS taxing. The whole program needs to be gone for many reasons.

1) It's being abused in a serious way.
2) We have a very comprehensive private banking system that caters to the common man making long and short term investment easy and possible.
3) Freedom entails risk, and it should.

Originally posted by DevinSWelfare/Medicaid to 0? No, now, take money and use it to find the frauds. Instead of going "Hey, a black person wants welfare, give it to them." See what year cadillac they drive, how much gold and diamonds they have in their ears, around their neck, and on their fingers. Find out how much money they make illegally from drugs/pimping instead of going "Hey, they haven't had a job since 1995, yet drive a 2004 caddy, have a ring with a diamond the size of a walnut, and 4 30inch chains made of gold, give them welfare money." I am sick and tired of seeing people driving around in cars I can't afford who are on welfare! But there are people who need it, there job just got shipped overseas, there student loans were stopped, so forth and now need money to pay rent/buy food. Don’t they have a limit though, like can only be on it for two years at a time?

I disagree with Federal Welfare entirely. You don't work, you don't eat, unless one of the millions of private charities helps you (which I would hope they would).

Originally posted by DevinSNo more free trade? What kind of commie are you? free trade, business vs. business, isn't that capitalism?

No, actually free trade agreements are opponents of actual free trade. They are a misnomer that you should look further into.

Originally posted by DevinSFederal income tax... Need roads, and hospitals, and cops, you can't expect to get everything but pay nothing for it. But make it equal! charge a flat tax rate instead of going "Ok you make X so pay A, you make Y so pay B."

Roads, hospitals, cops, firemen, schools, etc are paid for by the state and local governments more than anything else.

A flat tax is only good as a transition point to no federal income tax.

Also, take into consideration that federal income tax is only about 50% of the government's take per year.

Originally posted by DevinSCut Dept. of Education? What more is there to cut? Kids are graduating thinking creation is science, Earth is flat, and can't even do basic math. Why do you want our kids to be even more stupid? So they vote republican?

Stupid people vote for Republicans or Democrats willingly rather than grudgingly or rather than third parties. They are corrupt wrongly loyal private companies that are in business to make money by selling banner phrases.

The Department of Education does nothing but waste money while the Federal Government only gives around 7% of the local school budgets per year.

Schools are paid for through local personal property taxes more often than not, so it goes to show why poor areas get poor schools and rich areas get rich ones. That, however, does not include the cultural differences in attention and attitude towards education in general.

Originally posted by DevinSDept. of Energy, what parts? Need to invest in new energy instead of making the current crap factories that spew out stuff so toxic it can't even be described richer. Nuclear plants, when funded and kept up to code, produce more energy and cleaner energy. Would solve the power outages in California.

The DOE has 4 self stated purposes:

1) Defense Strategic Goal: To protect our national security by applying advanced science and nuclear technology to the Nation’s defense.

There is no purpose for a whole department to do this. Also, security is another department's job

2) Energy Strategic Goal: To protect our national and economic security by promoting a diverse supply and delivery of reliable, affordable, and environmentally sound energy.

Again, no purpose for a whole department for this. They have also done a piss poor job.

3) Science Strategic Goal: To protect our national and economic security by providing world-class scientific research capacity and advancing scientific knowledge.

Private industry provides the best research and knowledge for a far better price tag.

Environment Strategic Goal: To protect the environment by providing a responsible resolution to the environmental legacy of the Cold War and by providing for the permanent disposal of the Nation’s high-level radioactive waste.

I don't see why the EPA can't handle this. They seem to do a far better job than many other agencies.

Originally posted by DevinSHealth? Not only want people to be stupid want them to be sick? I guess that makes sense, stupid and sick people die, make more room for the rest, but not the way I would do it...

No, I do not want people to be sick, but it will happen regardless of if they are there or not. With over 300 programs, some of these are good, a large portion are redundant to the private sector, and some need to be removed because they are not the job of the Federal Government.

That which is good should be allocated to another department.

Originally posted by DevinSAnd with DHS, instead of spending billions to wiretap PETA, Greenpeace, ACLU, and John McCain how about, IDK, Protecting the Country! If they did their job no prob, but they spend more time listening to John McCain talk to his wife then they do securing our borders.

Well, Katrina showed why this didn't and probably will not work. We need smaller, lighter, faster government.

One major point about government, you can NOT (or rather should not allow anyone to) unionize the government. Period.

Originally posted by DevinSEarmark? Lost me on that one, explanation asked for, not exactly sure what you mean.

Earmarking is tagging a bill with money from millions to billions for local public works projects and other ridiculous things that cost the tax payer huge sums of money. It's basically a way to buy votes for bills rather than voting for what one believes in.

Google it. "earmark, congress"

Yes well we agree on SS, but welfare... Again, what do you do if your company decides "Hey, not only will it cost 40% less to make the same product using child labor in Sri Lanka, Bush will give us a 7% tax break for doing so!" ANd now you have no work. And private charities can't cover everyone/everything. The problem with Welfare is the frauds and scammers, people who don't call children kids but another welfare check, people who make more money then I do through illegal means on welfare, people who sit around all day not even trying to get a job collecting welfare. Why I think they have a limit, like can only be on welfare for X amount of time before they stop.

Education is important! Maybe instead of trying to teach classes with history books that call Civil Rights Activists like MLK and Malcom X as Trouble in the Future have new ones that have the right information! Ones that don't stop at President Nixon might help also...

And math, kids can't even do multiplication or division! DOn't even start on fractions or geometry. Or my favorite... "I know where Iraq is on a map, I took geometry class."

And here's a great idea, fail the little punks who can't read! In todays world a kid fails, a parent complains, they are passed. You have kids in highschool who can't read!

Why? Lack of funds, schools closing all the time, so those students go to another school, crowding it, and causing less to get done. Old books, or teachers who sleep in the Teachers Lounge because gas costs to much money to keep driving home and to work everyday since they get paid less then a corrupt lobbyist. There are so many problems in the Education system it will take more then money, but that would help solve some problems.

DOE, well, good idea at the time, but needs to evolve with the times. If you use 1950's rules for 2006 or whatever it doesn't work.

DHS, again, they need to spend less time picking up 14 year old girls and more time doing their job! For every minute they spend d/l child porn and listening to John McCain getting the grocery list from his wife another illegal enters the country. A case of good idea if it worked/enforced, but it is abuse, used wrongly, and doesn't work.

As far as your scenario goes, that is why they have unemployment, which can be done at the state's discretion on the state level.

The "lack of funding" idea has been played out, entirely. It simply isn't the truth since providing additional funds doesn't solve any problems.

I suggest that we privatize all education, which would make it far more cost effective, would allow for religion, would remove government, would remove taxation of all for use by only a portion, etc, etc.

This would, of course, need to be in tandem with the reduction of income taxes of course.

I can also tell you that it would solve many problems with parents not being involved in their kid’s education/life.

Oh yes, religon in school...

"A girl who can do math? You know what that means, a Witch!"

Besides, do we really want them learning that the answer to someone who disagrees with you is to slaughter an entire race of people? Arabs, Jews, Indians, blacks, so forth. And Earth is flat, center of universe, creation isn't faith but science, blah blah blah. Religon is for church, learning is for school, leave the two seperate. If I go to church and learn math and to school and hear someone tell me I am going to hell for masturbating we have a problem...

Originally posted by DevinS
Oh yes, religon in school...

"A girl who can do math? You know what that means, a Witch!"

Besides, do we really want them learning that the answer to someone who disagrees with you is to slaughter an entire race of people? Arabs, Jews, Indians, blacks, so forth. And Earth is flat, center of universe, creation isn't faith but science, blah blah blah. Religon is for church, learning is for school, leave the two seperate. If I go to church and learn math and to school and hear someone tell me I am going to hell for masturbating we have a problem...

What is this? Seriously. There are quite a number of religious schools out there now, since that seems to be the portion you focused on.

The point was that with a private school you have the choice to expose your children to the type of education, educational style, and choices you like. Learning about religion does not affect the learning of math and see no need to keep them apart should the parent choose to.

Obviously even if all schools were privatized, most schools would be non-religious anyway. At least in the sense that one was focused on. They might choose to have courses that taught all religions.

These are options not availible in the public school sector, among many others.


Addition:

I also want to say that I should not have my money taken for the purposes of other individuals.

1) Other's Education
2) Food
3) Rent
4) Medicine
5) Healthcare (including abortion, which really stretches the boundries of the term "Healthcare")

Among others. I earn my money and should keep the maximum amount possible.

[edit on 12-4-2006 by KrazyJethro]

Also, who's religon? Want Arabs teaching kids how to strap a bomb on their back or just Catholic religon, so the priests have even more contact with young children...

Other's education? WHo paid for yours again?

Medicare/medicine/paying for other people's health, which you probably could use sooner or later, incase of an emergency. Do you have a few million dollars laying around incase you are in such a bad car accident that you have to pay for life flight, several surgeries, care in the hospital, bed/food, so forth? I had a cousin in a car accident that if this stuff wasn't paid for through certain agencies would be broke since he didn't have a couple million in his bank account.

"Social programs are a proven failure"

What about people who work for the city? I don't hear anyone complaining about firefighters, police, paved roads, or any of the many conveniences to which our tax money goes.

Some government programs that work-
rural electrification
the interstate highway system
National Institute of Health
FAA
FBI
GI bill
student loans
federal penitentiaries
National Park System
Medicare
Social Security
Head Start
Federal Deposit Insurance Corporation
public libraries
lighthouses
Head Start
food stamps
police departments
fire departments

I didn't make this list up; I compiled it from different conservatives such as George Will and others.

Originally posted by DevinS
Also, who's religon? Want Arabs teaching kids how to strap a bomb on their back or just Catholic religon, so the priests have even more contact with young children...

Any religion. Also, why do you have to reduce everything to it's most incideous.

Other's education? Who paid for yours again?

My parents did, but because I went to public school doesn't mean it's a good idea. If you think personal property tax is a good idea, then I can't help you.

Medicare/medicine/paying for other people's health, which you probably could use sooner or later, incase of an emergency. Do you have a few million dollars laying around incase you are in such a bad car accident that you have to pay for life flight, several surgeries, care in the hospital, bed/food, so forth? I had a cousin in a car accident that if this stuff wasn't paid for through certain agencies would be broke since he didn't have a couple million in his bank account.

Sorry, I work hard for my money, and have obtained my own health insurance. This country was never established so everyone had the same priviledges.

Additionally, you can't tell me that without these programs (which would pretty much eliminate the need for Income tax since they constitute the same percentage as income taxes take in - about 50%) that no one would do it.

There are already numerous private charities and hospitals help as well. If 100 million people got 30+% more in their checks every month, you'd be living in a far better America.

For EVERYONE.

Originally posted by KrazyJethro
Who is do say that you are a conservative?

I don't know what you mean. Do you mean "to" instead of "do"?

Typo sorry about slow response.
You might call yourself a conserative but the term is consertaive is like calling someone a liberal. Any meaning has been lost in the political wildness. Much depends on your point of view.

[edit on 19-4-2006 by xpert11]

Originally posted by xpert11Any meaning has been lost in the political wildness. Much depends on your point of view.

Fair enough. I am a Constitutionalist and laise-fair Capitalist that tries to also be realistic.

Does that make sense? What issues do you want to know, then you can tell me what you think (seriously).

Originally posted by KrazyJethro
Does that make sense? What issues do you want to know, then you can tell me what you think (seriously).

I will give a more detailed reply when things settle down on the home front. But I will say that you are making sense. I dont call myself a conserative as such for the most part I hold right wing econmic views. Just to add to the mix I have what would probaly be comsidered radical social views and I am pro labour but not pro union if that makes any sense.

Xpert: Let me know when the home life calms down.

I'd be glad to discuss some issues with you.

devin how can you say that young kids are being persuaded to be a republican
when most the kids i go to school with are dems.They have no clue whats going on and just listen to what their parents and other ignorant people say. they dont make up there own minds they just hear people hate on bush saying its all bushes fault. He is the reason im still poor and cant make it in life. oh, he just did this and that becasue the said it on t.v or talk about it in school.u dont even understand how many ducks can quack at once. if kids know what was going on they might change their minds. People think becasue bush is the president that he makes all the descions on what is going on the rest of the gov. just sit there with their finger in there butt. ok, belive what u will. all this bush bashing is cool so why dont i do it too. it's got to be true if everyone thinks that.

i would like to see all ur proof about all that nosense your ranting about, wheres the facts or did someone just tell u to say it.


Like AL Franken? And Jon Stewart, and Michael Moore?. your joking right they just want to make money. do you really belive every thing u read or see. i bet u do


btw how old are you hope not to old becasue u sound pretty ignorant for some one of age. im not even old enough to vote. but what do i know i probably just saw all this on tv or some thing right. i was proably brainwashed or i might be dyslexic and when every one said i hate bush. i must have thoguht i love bush.
or when they said its all his fault.. thought is not his fault. i might need medicine
oh wait caint .need to be a muti-millionare to pay for me geting a paper cut.
must be bushes fault...:p

Ok Krazy I will bite now that I have a brief chance to. I have excluded issues that arent relvant to NZ.

Originally posted by KrazyJethro


2) Cut Federal Welfare

I think that people who are in geniune need should get assitance from the government. Under no circumstances should working people get hand outs Note we dont have federal and state governments in NZ.

3) Remove Free Trade agreements.

I support the concept of free trade the problem is that the major econmic powers are abusing the concept.

4) Remove the Federal Income Tax over time to zero and replace it with nothing.

GST and other taxs need to go. Income tax should be 10% reguardless of income.

6) Cut all reocurring global aid.

I agree. There are ways we can help these thrid world countries but throwing money at them isnt the answer.

Cut all government grants and subsidies to industries that can not turn a buck.

There arent really any subsidies in NZ our famers are apart of the freemarket. Grants and subsidies do long term harm and encourge bad bussiness practices.

[edit on 11-5-2006 by xpert11]

Well, since most young people today have to go to college and most do, that can probably be the reason why there seems to be a rise in college republicans. Its not jsut the liberal people who want to be scientists who to college anymore, It's everybody. Even farm kids go to college.

Isn't it possible to have political beliefs, but to be liberal?

I don't trust Bush, in fact I think you should look at my post on PTS("Highway Robbery for ALL!"), money is tight enough for myself and the people I know and care for, so why give more tax cuts to the wealthy, then allow the wealthy to get a nice tax cut, when most people can't even dream of an average salary job, and have to settle for minimum-wage ones, because of Bush, and his cronies, making terrible ripples in the US's pound?

I'm a Constituitonal-Liberitarian actually, I only vote Democrat, Republican, etc. because there really is no Real Candidate choice around here anymore.

Reason I'm a conservative is one main reason that will never change for me. To me this issue is far greater than anything else. Abortion. Now I dont want to argue about it. My BELEIF if that life starts at conception. So to me we are legally murdering thousands of infants. Just imagine in your mind that the US made killing newborns legal. Well thats equal to abortion for me. Give me war give me slavery I dont care just dont kill the babys.

Originally posted by ProjectChaos
Reason I'm a conservative is one main reason that will never change for me. To me this issue is far greater than anything else. Abortion. Now I dont want to argue about it. My BELEIF if that life starts at conception.

Isnt it a bit misguided to call yourself an conservative because of your stance on one issue ?
I support tax cuts but that dosnt make me a conservative.