NEWS: Sandra Day O'Connor Fears U.S. Dictatorship

Originally posted by Truth_Hunter_1976
BH If the 2008 Elections Dont happen I will be the first one to call it a Dictatorship.....And the first to take up arms and fight it..........

Well, that's good to hear. But SDO's whole point was that it's easier to stop it from happening than to turn it around, once it's happened.

If there are signs that a dictatorship is developing, and many think there are, we should stop it before it gets carried away. That's all.

Originally posted by dawnstar
....I'll just sum it up as "the enemy"!!!

it's becoming more and more evident that some really wish they could end any and all discussions that voice a veiwpoint contrary to their own.

So anybody that disagress with your point of view is the "enemy"? Now that sounds like the beginnings of a dictatorship!

You are correct that some wish to quiet viewpoints contrary to their own. I'm not one of them. I welcome a good debate, but if you think I'm going to lay down and let hysterical statements be made, without proof, or that I'm going to allow people to attack me personally because I don't toe the party line that all is bad in the US, then you are sorely mistaken.

The problem I see is that when someone's pov is challenged with questions, then that person is attacked with everything but the facts. That shows that some have nothing to back up their statements, other than their "feelings", which they try to pass off as just as valid as the facts.

Originally posted by Benevolent Heretic

Originally posted by Truth_Hunter_1976
BH If the 2008 Elections Dont happen I will be the first one to call it a Dictatorship.....And the first to take up arms and fight it..........

Well, that's good to hear. But SDO's whole point was that it's easier to stop it from happening than to turn it around, once it's happened.

If there are signs that a dictatorship is developing, and many think there are, we should stop it before it gets carried away. That's all.

My whole point is BH if she be leaves all of this crapola she is spouting and thinks Bush is a Dictator why did she retire and allow the man she is calling a dictator to name her successor........Makes her comments Hypocritical in my mind anyway.

"So anybody that disagress with your point of view is the "enemy"? Now that sounds like the beginnings of a dictatorship! "

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ya took that one a little out of context didn't ya??

oh, well.....let's just say that I've been referred to as unpatriotic, anti-american, blah, blah, blah...."the enemy" enough times for stating what I believe. when a supreme court justice comes out and starts talking about dictatorship, well, I have experienced enough firsthand to listen to what she says.

and the fact that some come out and criticise her for saying it rather than attempting to discuss why they don't see it that way, well, that just reinforces it.

You think you are the only one who is being called names around here?

Other members and I, which have a different opinion from you and other members, have also been called names, from unpatriotic, to warmongers, and everything else in between. If someone is calling you those names, I am sorry but there is nothing I can do about that.

And as for some government officials making claims and they must be true if they say them. I remember not so long ago another member of Congress, alongside some of her colleages had the guts of saying that Communism doesn't exist anymore, that Cuba is no more a Communist country and there was no Communism anywhere in the world.... If she thinks that's true she better go to Cuba and tell that to the Cuban citizens or to the Communist groups that exist all around the world, or maybe she should go to China and tell the CCP that they are not what they call themselves "socialists" anymore.

Just because any government official, or ex-official says something, doesn't immediately makes it true.

[edit on 15-3-2006 by Muaddib]

Originally posted by Truth_Hunter_1976
My whole point is BH if she be leaves all of this crapola she is spouting and thinks Bush is a Dictator why did she retire and allow the man she is calling a dictator to name her successor........Makes her comments Hypocritical in my mind anyway.

Maybe she didn't realize it at the time. A lot of people are waking up to what Bush is doing. And she left to take care of her sick husband, as you already know. Sometimes we have to make hard choices.

[edit on 15-3-2006 by Benevolent Heretic]

Originally posted by dawnstar
"So anybody that disagress with your point of view is the "enemy"? Now that sounds like the beginnings of a dictatorship! "

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ya took that one a little out of context didn't ya??

Yep. I re-read it and now I see what you were saying. But, I disagree - I don't see you as the "enemy". Just politically opposed to me, that's all.

See? I can admit when I make a mistake?

oh, well.....let's just say that I've been referred to as unpatriotic, anti-american, blah, blah, blah...."the enemy" enough times for stating what I believe. when a supreme court justice comes out and starts talking about dictatorship, well, I have experienced enough firsthand to listen to what she says.

While I respect her former office, I don't think that means she can't be wrong. Look at Jimmy Carter, for example. And he was POTUS at one time.

and the fact that some come out and criticise her for saying it rather than attempting to discuss why they don't see it that way, well, that just reinforces it.

And I feel the same way about people that say we have less freedoms that fascist Germany did. It reinforces my view that they are using unfounded sensationalism to get a reaction. And I am criticized and called a shill for the administration for asking them to back up their allegations.

So, the pendulum swings both ways.

who has said that we have less freedoms than facist germany? I've seen where people are pointing out similarities, or maybe expressing a fear that we are heading in that direction.
and then you have wackos like me who will trace it all the way back to the economic collaspe and claim that it's all reallly just a plan that they use when they need to reorgainize, restabalize the economy, and that whenever there is a world wide economic collaspe you can expect the one who is the economic stronghold to become the villian, that scapegoats will be created, that war will start, the villian will lose, and that the new economic stronghold will step into the picture at the last moment and save the day, and inherit the mantle of world leader. note, that if I am right on this, well, there's a dictatorship in the making, or at least something much similar...


but, I must of missed the one about our freedoms being less than germany's at the height of the nazi empire....sorry.

dawnstar...there are no parallels, nor similarities between Nazi Germany and the U.S., none at all...

Nazi Germany was a Socialist Nationalist government, which wanted to rid Germany of minorities, and then wanted to rid the world of minorities and the weak, they also turned their attention towards all Jewish people, saying that they were the cause for all the problems in the world.

The current U.S. administration has no similarity whatsoever to Nazi Germany. Anyone that says this does not know the facts, and it's merely trying to follow the party line of some people who would say anything and everything trying to sell to other people the idea that the U.S. is a dictatorship.

[edit on 15-3-2006 by Muaddib]

Originally posted by Muaddib
dawnstar...there are no parallels, nor similarities between Nazi Germany and the U.S., none at all...

Yeah! Hitler had a moustache! Bush doesn't! That proves it right there! [/sarcasm]

You know what? I know this fall (dictatorship/economic collapse) is coming and I honestly hope I'm around to see some of you finally wake up and see what the rest of us are seeing. Sometimes I'm almost eager for it to progress... just so I can hear you guys admit how mistaken you were.

That's wrong, I know, but it's the way I feel. And I can't help but think that somehow you'll make it out to be all the Democrat's fault or something

Arrrghhh... I had a long reply typed out, but lost it just before I was about to post....

Let me try to summarize:

Why is it that so many people here who don't like what O'Connor said are trying to create sideshows or discredit her statements by pointing to OTHER things she, or others, said? E.g., "...Republican politicians appear to endorse the killing of judges who make rulings of which they disapprove," "we have less freedoms than in Nazi Germany," or "There is no more Communism in the world."

Face her assertion on its merits, stop trying to obfuscate the issue, people! This is typical right-wing tactics- just dredge up some other comment and hope the rabble gets so caught up in it that they'll miss the original point.

And,

Why is it that so many people want "facts" to back up a purely logical assertion by O'Connor?

Are you incapable of reading a newspaper? Do you need facts to support what should be basic civics, ie, the separation of powers? Do you actually want "links," rather than "facts," so you can pick at the source or use the above mentioned side-show creation tactics?

Do your own research! Read newspapers! Understand the difference between common-sense and pedantry!

Originally posted by dawnstar
who has said that we have less freedoms than facist germany? I've seen where people are pointing out similarities, or maybe expressing a fear that we are heading in that direction.

Do you think I'd make that up? From page 1 of this thread:

originally posted by soficrow
Like O'Connor says - our country is now a dictatorship. We have fewer freedoms than people in fascist Germany did.

Like - we do NOT have the freedom to criticize or dissent.

but, I must of missed the one about our freedoms being less than germany's at the height of the nazi empire....sorry.

I don't know - you tell me.

Originally posted by Benevolent Heretic
...............................
That's wrong, I know, but it's the way I feel. And I can't help but think that somehow you'll make it out to be all the Democrat's fault or something

Where have i said that an economic collapse could not happen? In fact if you read some of my posts you will see that I think otherwise. You think it is an evil plan made by president Bush, that is your choice, but I don't see anything to back this up.

I do believe that there are some other countries that do want to see the U.S. economic downfall. Some people want to claim that China would never try to make the U.S. economy fall because we are their biggest investment..... Do you know which country was the biggest investment for Japan before WWII started? If you haven't figured it out it was the U.S., the same country they went to war with during WWII.

Anyways, let's stay on topic, the U.S. a dictatorship? Go find if there are any programs that would allow you to discuss this on television/radio, if there is even one program/radio station that would allow you to discuss this topic, the U.S. is not a dictatorship.

[edit on 15-3-2006 by Muaddib]

Originally posted by koji_K
Why is it that so many people here who don't like what O'Connor said are trying to create sideshows or discredit her statements by pointing to OTHER things she, or others, said? E.g., "...Republican politicians appear to endorse the killing of judges who make rulings of which they disapprove," "we have less freedoms than in Nazi Germany," or "There is no more Communism in the world."

Well, I am not creating any sideshows to discredit O'Connor. But I do have an issue with someone who utters O'Connor's name in the same breath as "we have less freedoms than fascist Germany", as if to imply that O'Connor stated that or felt that way.

Face her assertion on its merits, stop trying to obfuscate the issue, people! This is typical right-wing tactics- just dredge up some other comment and hope the rabble gets so caught up in it that they'll miss the original point.

Careful, koji_k! *I* have been anointed as the one who makes false right vs left arguments, and now you want to step on my turf?!

You don't really believe that only the right wing uses those tactics, do you?

Originally posted by jsobecky
Careful, koji_k! *I* have been anointed as the one who makes false right vs left arguments, and now you want to step on my turf?!

I cry foul!!! I did not have my voodoo juice when I leveled that accusation. Anointed, indeed.... But I have my bottle here now, if you would like....

I still notice that the merits of SDO's concerns have not really been addressed in a meaningful way in this thread.

[edit on 16-3-2006 by loam]

Originally posted by loam
I still notice that the merits of SDO's concerns have not really been addressed in a meaningful way in this thread.

[edit on 16-3-2006 by loam]

And in what meaningful way would you have wanted her concerns to be addressed?

I still notice that some people believe that anything any official, or ex-official says must immediately be the truth.

If, that is a big if I still not even sure if this is true, or if her words were not completly taken out of context by the reporter; anyways, if she thinks that caution must be taken in whatever steps we take from here on so as not to take the direction of some repressive govenrments you think those statemetns are saying the U.S. is becoming a dictatorship?

Appart from the obvious political bickering included in the article, which in part seems to come from the reporter, that is what I see those statements say. If you see it differently, that is your opinion isn't it?

[edit on 16-3-2006 by Muaddib]

Are you saying she did not say:

"We must be ever-vigilant against those who would strong-arm the judiciary..."

"...It takes a lot of degeneration before a country falls into dictatorship, but we should avoid these ends by avoiding these beginnings."

You find those statements unreasonable? ...Unworthy of consideration?

Moreover, I assume you have listen to this report....Do you question those quotes???

www.npr.org...

[edit on 16-3-2006 by loam]

Originally posted by loam
Are you saying she did not say:

"We must be ever-vigilant against those who would strong-arm the judiciary..."

"...It takes a lot of degeneration before a country falls into dictatorship, but we should avoid these ends by avoiding these beginnings."

You find those statements unreasonable? ...Unworthy of consideration?

How can we be certain she said this when only one reporter gave the story and was supposedly present? and if you read the article you can see that the reporter doesn't like the present administration at all. So, could this reporter have taken her words out of context? it is very possible.

You know, Muaddib, I barely read that article...I find the NPR account far more credible. Have you listened to it? Moreover, this was featured on MSNBC...Do you thin that if SDO had been misquoted in any egregious way that she would not publicly set the record straight?

[edit on 16-3-2006 by loam]

Loam, perhaps you don't know me well yet, but other members should know by now that I don't jump to conclusions and weight everything before I make a decision on any topic.

Everything surrounding this "alledged statement" is too obscure and way too secretive. When something is too good to be true, it probably is.

If she was really that concerned she should have stated her concerns openly so that all can hear.