Are We In Our End Of Days?

enkidu, and atlantas, are you saying that there is not going to be an "end of days"? I dont understand you anger about the subject.

Originally posted by dgtempe
Lucifer is loose and residing in Washington DC. All those hypocrites that claim they are doing things to "protect us" are nothing but Satanist worshipers following the devil's agenda.

I think in the end good will prevail, whether we are here alive to see it, its another story.

you describe the antichrist. the "man" of peace. the pied piper. and your right good will prevail. you know the story.

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[edit on 9-4-2006 by Benevolent Heretic]

Originally posted by angelsrforever
I myself am affected by movies I watch; sometimes fiction becomes fact, which then turns into our living reality of how much violence there exist. Our children murdering other children on per say "law and order TV sitcom" Gives the idea of this act of violence, and includes a recipe on how to get away with it.

have you ever thought about getting rid of your television?

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[edit on 9-4-2006 by Benevolent Heretic]

Yes Funkydung I have. But I can't control what my kids watch at their friends house. I just wish the media would cut down on the amount of violence on it's everyday TV shows. You can try to get your kids into other things but the problem is, it's not so hip to be going bike riding or playing ball anymore.

Mod Edit to remove quote of previous poster.


[edit on 9-4-2006 by Benevolent Heretic]

Angel, I used to control what my kids watched. To some point I still do. You know, no R rated movies and no PG-13 unless they are ok'd by me. As for the news, and other shows that show the violence, not so much anymore. I realized that, as much as I would love to shield them from the world, I was doing them an injustice. Yes you are right they will watch at their friends house. They are going to be faced with it everyday, especially when they are not with you. So I decided to run with it instead of hiding them from it. I show them what is going on in this world, and let them know that it is not ok. I also reinforce the power of knowledge and school work. I tell them that every thing can change, and how they are the future and they CAN make a difference. This generation that is growing up right now is a very powerful generation IMO. I know that when my kids watch that stuff or see it in everyday life, they know that it is wrong. My 7 year old is now set on becomming president. He is learning everything he can about politics. He is set on changing things for the better. My oldest, is set on figuring out how to build an engine that runs on a never ending battery. Something that does not pollute. Polution and litter gets his blood boiling. That is because when he was 2 he tried to throw trash on the ground and I explained to him why that was wrong.

The point I am trying to make, is, start educating them about it. If you try to hide it from them, they will just seek it out. I, personally, want my kids to be able to look at it without fear, and know that they can do something to change it.

It might be getting close to the end, but I still have faith that some one can and will change things for the better. I am just going to do my best to raise my kids....the next generation.

Mod Edit to remove quote of previous poster.

[edit on 9-4-2006 by Benevolent Heretic]

[edit on 9-4-2006 by mrsdudara]

I hate to agree, that we're in the end of our days, but look at all the media... I don't necessarily agree that it's the end of the world, but something is coming. Just look at all the religous hype, about the gospel of Judas, and Jesus not actually dying, and the whole Da Vinci code...I don't exactly know what to think...I would like to live at least 40 more years....

I've done a lot of research and investigation into the symbology of the Bible. Jesus spoke in parable and many of the verses in the bible have the face value meaning and underlying meaning. I base this statement on the following references: Proverbs 25:2, Matt 11:25, Matt 13:35, Luke 10:21, Psalm 78:2, Rev 2:17, John 16:25, Isaiah 6:9, Acts 28:26-28, 1 Cor 2:7.

1 Cor 10:11 Describes how the things that happened in the old testament to Israel, etc are for types, examples for our instruction.

Another key to understanding is Psalm 90:10 where the Lord describes how a day is as a thousand years.

Many of the parables in the word can be "decoded" to the underlying meaning by seeing where else in the bible a symbol is equated to something else. The 1000 yrs = 1 day is a key to understand the other parables given.

Given the above, I will list several examples here that point to the period of 1997AD to approximately 2200AD as the time period in which the Lord referred to his return.

The key is to understand that we are the morning of the 7th day from the first Adam (creation in 4004-4003BC) and on the morning of the third day since the second Adam (Jesus, 1 Cor 15).

This is an outline for me to teach from so it is brief in wording to say the least. Nevertheless, the verses are grouped properly.

o 7th day from the First Adam (“on seventh day”, “after six days”) - 1 Cor 15:45
o Joshua 6 - Story of Jericho shows a 6000 year run of history with a 7-year tribulation in the beginning of the 7th millenium.
o Ex. 23:12 - Six days shall you labor, but on the seventh day, you shall rest.
o Matt 17:1, Mark 9:2 After six days, birth of Man-child Ministry (Rev 6 & 12)

o 3rd day from the Second Adam (“on third day”, “after two days”) - 1 Cor 15:45
o Exodus 19 - the Lord's meeting Moses on the mountain morning of third day.
Arrives with earthquakes, thunder, lightning, great trumpet. Moses on mountain
in wilderness nourished by the Lord 40 days (number of tribulation).
o Luke 10: 30-35 Parable of the Good Samaritan - 2 Denarii, 2 days wages, 2000 years
o Hosea 5-6 in two days he will revive us
o Lev 7:17-18, 19:6 - Flesh left on the third day must be burned with fiery trial since not accepted in heaven.
o Num 19:19-20 - Holy spirit will purify man 3rd day from Jesus,. 7th day from Adam.
o Num 31: 24 - 7th Day people wash their clothes then come into the camp - like Revelation Bride who makes her clothes white as snow to enter Heaven.
o 2 Kings 20: 5 - Go into the house of God on the third day from Jesus.
o Esther 5: 1-2 - Esther stands before throne on 3rd day as Bride will stand before throne in third day after Jesus after putting on the proper apparel.
o John 2: 1-10 Marriage at Cana on third day turns water (Word of God) in earthen vessels (man), and Jesus turns it into wine (transforming spirit, latter rain) which the latter is better than the former
o Matt 28:1, Luke 24: 1 - at the early dawn of the third day, Jesus was already raised.
o Luke 13:32 - Cast out demons and heal sick today and tomorrow. Jesus perfected on third day.
o Ps 90:10 & Matt 24:34 - 70-80 years from the Fig tree putting forth its leaves
(1948 start, 2018-2028 completion)
o Tribulation cannot start just any year (1260/1290 days)
o By implication, we all know the fireworks described in Matt 24 before and as this time starts.

o Pre- or Post-Trib
o Revelation 20 - Souls of those beheaded - first resurrection. We also know from 1 Thes 4:16 that Rapture occurs at time of first resurrection.
o Job 14:12 - sleep and do not rise until Heavens rolled away, not 7 years before.
o Joshua 6 - Jericho story - flesh falls after 7 times around on 7th day. "Times" used as unit of measure for ruling duration of beast. (Dan 7:25, 12:7, Rev 12:14)
o Exodus - Feast of Unleavened Bread last 7 days before leaving Egypt.
o Genesis 6, Dan 12:12 - Noah seven days in the ark before the wrath of God came, 40 days of wrath, then lifted up. (much like the 7 years plus 40 days at end of tribulation).

o Major events leading up to and in tribulation:
o Rev: 12: 1-6 God's people in wilderness 3 1/2 years nurtured by the unleavened word of God
o John 16:20-25 & Rev 12:1-6 Part of Church walks in fullness of God's power to lead others through this time.
o Eccl 1:9 - Those who are walking in that fullness and leaders of tribulation are not the people are considered big in the church today. Reflect on Jesus time.
o Dan 9:27, 11:31, 12:11, Acts 17:24, Romans 12:1, Matt 23:38, Luke 13:35 Christians will take the mark of the Beast and be left desolate of Holy Spirit. Those reprobated will turn on other Christians to war against them. Judas was a foreshadow of a corporate son of perdition who will deliver the people of God to death.

There are others to add about the tribulation allusions (throwing Meschash, Shadrach, Abednago) into the fire heated up "7 times" (for seven years), etc.

This is the basic summary. Most of the bible speaks in parable about the time that is approaching. To me, it is clear that God was talking about this 200 year or so timeframe. It would take more specific revelation to understand whether the time is now or 100 years from now. I try to stay only with what the Bible says, although I personally believe that the time coming up is that tribulation period.

The battles in the middle east now are a second and greater fulfillment of Jeremiah 25. Also, in Daniel 8, there is a he-goat that comes against Elam (Iran) that is pushing West (helping insurgents in Iraq) and the he-goat comes across the whole world (Greece was pretty close by, USA is 1/2 way around world) with speed never touching the ground (Alexander the great had no navy - this is talking about sea and air power. Notice that right after this battle in Daniel 8 in which Iran cannot stand against the "he-goat" the old testament abomination of desolation is setup which is a type and shadow of the abomination of desolation (Christians taking the mark) in the end times.

There is no flying away in any pre-trib rapture, though.
When is the Rapture?


It's 2595 days after the covenant with many

I was raised in the typical protestant church telling us about this pre-trib rapture so I just said what I was taught. When I started studying on my own, I became more than convinced from a multitude of examples, parables, and direct statements, that the rapture is 45 days after the end
of the tribulation period ends.

Christians will go through the tribulation (fast approaching). Many will die
in persecution from the world. All will be raptured and resurrected 1335 days after the mark of the beast system is put in place.

The reason for the rapture is that we are not destined for God's wrath as the world is. We will go through the time when judgments occur on the world (like the plagues of Egypt the last 7 days before they let the Israelites go) and believers will be unaffected by them. We will however, suffer persecution from the unbelieving.

After the tribulation has produced the fruit God is looking for in the lives of believers, He will harvest that fruit in the rapture and destroy the surface of this world for 1 year. Then we will all return for the millenial kingdom to a cleansed earth.

We are destined to be here doing the judgments of the tribulation, but not the wrath of God. Most Christians do not understand the difference between these judgments coming and the ultimate wrath of God.

The 1 taken, 1 left part in Matthew 24/Luke 17, etc is confusing to many Christians. A lot of people think God took them. Not true. The only other example of this word is when Enoch was and then was not for Good took him.

In Matthew 24, it is not stated that God took them, but rather they will be taken. I believe that this refers to the captivity of people in this final beast kingdom. A curious parallel is how Zechariah 14 talks about half of the city (God's people in the New Testament) will be taken captive.

The frenzy of the rapture comes from a laodecian church viewpoint. See if you can follow me on this description:

Throughout the latest 1700 years or so, Christians gradually allowed some departures in practices from the word of God. As a result, Christians slowly stopped experiencing the miracles, power in Spirit, and provision of the Lord in their daily lives. There were small decisions made where the daily life of the believers departed from God's word in small ways. Rather than seeking where the gap in belief and behavior was, pastors, priests decided to create a theology where God does not provide these things for His people anymore. So, they don't experience the fulness of God because God changed, not that these pastors and priests introduced error and minor points of unbelief (insidious) into the churches.

This introduction of error and tradition into the churches and the watering down of the description of God's power and provision for the church has gradually grown and pastors and priests (who naturally assume that they must be doing the right things and believing the right things before the Lord) start telling the people that the watered down experience of God is all they can expect. God has changed how he will deal with his people (dispensationalism).

Now, we know what the word says about the person who suffers in the flesh ceases from sin. We learn not to sin through our suffering here.
All sin before God has its root in unbelief - all sin. If you think about it, it is true.

The modern church now teaches an easy grace from God that does not require a fight to be converted in our souls from the old flesh man to the new spirit man. I have experienced this fight within myself in the last two years big time. Without faith in God through this fight, you cannot please him.

The tribulation will occur for the sake of the believers in Christ. It is the time when the Lord will lead His people out of this world into a wilderness experience. In the wilderness experience, we will be forced to depend only on the Lord. There will be no help at all from the world system (cannot buy or sell). In that environment, the believers will learn to depend on the Lord and not be double minded. As Christians in the modern, we are often double minded. If God does not provide something, then we go to plan B. That's double minded. He wants to be our provider but will not compete with you providing for yourself.

Those who hold to a pre-trib rapture who have studied this often have or were taught by someone who had an underlying motive for preaching this doctrine. It is still the same old argument that believers today are doing great, exercising great faith, and are just what God is looking for. Sorry, that doesn't play with God. He is bringing help to bring us into His image as He intended as He wraps up this world. And we need Him to do this for us.

Many christians will die in persecution and fall away from the faith for two reasons:

1. They believed a pre-tribulation rapture and "God lied to them". No, He didn't. People did. His word does not lie about this.

2. They believe they are just doing great in faith in the Lord so it must be a mean God who puts this trouble on them.

This is particularly deadly because they will be reprobated by God when they take that mark of the beast and lose their salvation at that time. They will become part of the corporate Son of Perdition who will hunt for and persecute other Christians.

We believe in the pre-trib rapture because it is easier to live with in our flesh to believe we are just doing great before the Lord in faith, we have need of nothing (sound familiar? Laodecia) and we are just waiting to go. We haven't produced much of the fruit Jesus is looking for in our lives, but that's OK. We haven't done the greater works Jesus spoke of, but that's OK. Wrong. God has a right to demand the fruit from His investment in us and He will have a spotless bride. There are too many tares in the church right now and they will be shaken out when the pressure starts. When the church is no longer an advanced Rotary club, but a group of people who have given their lives over to Jesus, then it comes closer to being a spotless bride.

The pre-trib rapture is a doctrine that appeals to the flesh, the same flesh that God says is at enmity with Him. That's why people cling to it. Unfortunately, denial will not pan out for many this time.

Originally posted by managerie
The pre-trib rapture is a doctrine that appeals to the flesh...

What's your interpretation of the letter to the church of Philadelphia (Revelation 3:7-13)?

And this:

Luke 21:36 (King James Version)
Watch ye therefore, and pray always, that ye may be accounted worthy to escape all these things that shall come to pass, and to stand before the Son of man.

Originally posted by WiseSheep

Originally posted by managerie
The pre-trib rapture is a doctrine that appeals to the flesh...

What's your interpretation of the letter to the church of Philadelphia (Revelation 3:7-13)?

And this:

Luke 21:36 (King James Version)
Watch ye therefore, and pray always, that ye may be accounted worthy to escape all these things that shall come to pass, and to stand before the Son of man.

Thanks for the questions.

1. Rev 3:7-13 - Everyone's favorite is Rev 3:10. Because of your perserverance, I will keep you from the hour of testing that is to come upon the world. There are a few points here. First, this was written to the church of Philadelphia, 1 of 7 churches listed in Rev 2 & 3. There will be people that God will keep from the hour of testing who have already died to self. They have no need to die physically. These are among those who will live and remain until the end. They will have Psalm 91 protection. There are many who will walk as Jesus walked in the end times who are the first-fruits of this season who will enjoy divine protection.
We know that the seven churches represent various constituents in Christianity today. Two of the seven churches compose the two witnesses corporate body. (I am still working on why there were 5 loaves and 2 fishes in feeding the 5000. I think that there is a prophetic parable in that. The numbers are always specific to introduce an insight.)
Second, we presume that the Lord must remove people from the earth to keep them from testing when that has never happened before and Eccl 1:9 says that what has been shall be. There is nothing new under the sun. Psalm 91 tells that some believers will see the fall of the wicked with their own eyes. That is up close and personal and some of them will be pronouncing the judgments upon the earth as did Moses, Elijah (the two witnesses at Jesus transfiguration). I do not presume to know how God will keep each person who has perservered to His satisfaction from testing while here on the earth. There are various examples in the scriptures. Jesus could walk right through a hostile crowd without being seen. Paul was opposed by a man in the book of Acts and Paul pronounced him to become blind. Angels came and delivered disciples from prison. There are many, many ways I do not presume to know them all.

2. Luke 21:36 - the Greek word for escape is "to flee out of". Jesus will cause all those who need to defeat their flesh still to go to their cross. The study of God's word puts to death the old man in us, the flesh. For example, "No man can see God and live" "Word was with God and the Word was God" - you read and study the word enough, the old man dies.
God never disciplines or judges unnecessarily. If someone has taken their old man mind of the flesh for God (Heb 6 - take the promised land), they have no more need of affliction and God will lead them away from the dangers that may ensnare others. Just as in the book of Acts, the disciples were told when to flee to the next city at various points. But, in Revelation, it says "if a man is for captivity, into captivity he must go". If captivity and physical death is what is required to bring the believer to maturity, then it must be. We are all required to take up our cross and follow Jesus (not, take up our Jaguar and follow as many prosperity gospel apostate preachers teach today). The rest of the verse is "to stand before the son of man". That is what we all must do and so the old man must be dead before that happens. Moses could ascend the mountain to be with God because his old man had already died. He was dead to self. He was completely God's and so could face him. The spirit man can see God and live and thrive.


It is a long discussion about the end times, but the overall plan is for Jesus to manifest himself in His first-fruits corporate man-child body (Rev 12:1-6) who will teach the rest of the body for 3 1/2 years as in the Gospels. Then that remaining part of the body will be anointed with the latter rain and go out and preach all over the world in full authority (book of Acts repeated). There are so many allusions to that, but you must understand this plan to see why the allusions in previous post apply in terms of the third day/seventh day parables.


[edit on 12-4-2006 by managerie]

Originally posted by Enkidu
Between now and then, if you wouldn't mind giving me all of your money and property, I'd really appreciate it. It's true, after all, that "you can't take it with you." So since you won't be needing it yourself, you should be happy to pass it along to me. I will at least have some enjoyment in life before I fall into the everlasting burning abyss, and I'll be able to bear an eternity of torment knowing that someone as good and generous as yourself was appropriately rewarded for your righteousness.

And what if you are wrong in our assumption that those of us who actually believe in Christ's return are just crazy? Believe me if what Jesus said is true, however unlikely to you, you will not find eternity to be "bearable" at all.

Just a suggestion: before you dismiss our position out-of-hand, examine the evidence carefully and weigh it thoughtfully and prayerfully;all you need is a new testament and an open heart.The results could be life changing.

God Bless You!

PC

Originally posted by Amethyst
I'm not convinced the pre-trib Rapture thing is even true. Matthew chapter 24 points to a post-tribulation gathering of the saints.

So we Christians are in it for the long haul too....

Amethyst- the events in Matthew 24 refer to the final judgement of ALL souls, The "Sheep"(those saved by grace, through Christ), and the "Goats,(those who have rejected Christ). The Bible is clear that the "Church", meaning the Body of Christ) shall be removed from the earth along with the Holy Spirit before the Antichrist sets himself up as god in Jerusalem.. Whether the rapture of the church occurs pre-trib or mid-trib, though, there will always be persecution for those who truly love God. It is going on now throughout the world and will continue until all of Christ's sheep have been gathered to Himself.

God Bless,

PC

[edit on 4/19/2006 by Prism_Cat]

I found Mrs. Dudara's comments on raising children in these "scary" times very illuminating. I have a 10 year old daughter and have discovered that by talking to her and expressing my beliefs with her over the years so far she is already growing into quite the strong, confident, and trust worthy person I had hoped. She is very kind to her friends, extremely sweet with her brother (who is a special needs child), and yet very good at listening to her own instincts as to who to trust. My point is that my wife and I have only been able to accomplish this so far by talking to her much as Mrs. D described.

Real life has already knocked at my daughter's door - No, she is not allowed to see an R rated movie, however, because of her brother's frequent hospital stays, she has spent more time in hospital ERs and wards than she would ever see in one news broadcast. She asks questions, we listen, and we always try to answer all of her questions. Sometimes, we did say in the past or do say now that we feel she is too young to fully understand certain things and that what we are telling her is appropriate for her age but we always promise to explain more as she gets older and we do. We would rather help her to deal with some issues now than to be uncertain about what to do later.

This all got me to thinking of the actual topic at hand. If, much like trying to be the best parents we can be, we be the best people we can be then maybe it does not matter if we are in end times or ever see such a thing in our lifetimes. Be kind to one another, respectful, tolerant, patient and above all else, love one another. It does not matter that some others do not follow the same path that we do. We can only influence the world around us from within. I am quite sure that is what some Romans tried to do before the fall of the Empire. Does it matter so much that the Empire fell anyway?

What will be will be but, hopefully, by our own individual actions focused on the positive whatever follows the chaos that lies ahead will be that much better because we sort to make it that way.

[edit on 19-4-2006 by trek315]

it was the best of times ...it was the worst of times ... but rest assured it is the end of times!!! and know this,;

8 Likewise also these dreamers defile the flesh, reject authority, and speak evil of dignitaries. 9 Yet Michael the archangel, in contending with the devil, when he disputed about the body of Moses, dared not bring against him a reviling accusation, but said, “The Lord rebuke you!” 10 But these speak evil of whatever they do not know; and whatever they know naturally, like brute beasts, in these things they corrupt themselves. 11 Woe to them! For they have gone in the way of Cain, have run greedily in the error of Balaam for profit, and perished in the rebellion of Korah.

These are spots in your love feasts, while they feast with you without fear, serving only themselves. They are clouds without water, carried about[c] by the winds; late autumn trees without fruit, twice dead, pulled up by the roots; 13 raging waves of the sea, foaming up their own shame; wandering stars for whom is reserved the blackness of darkness forever.

14 Now Enoch, the seventh from Adam, prophesied about these men also, saying, “Behold, the Lord comes with ten thousands of His saints, 15 to execute judgment on all, to convict all who are ungodly among them of all their ungodly deeds which they have committed in an ungodly way, and of all the harsh things which ungodly sinners have spoken against Him.”

16 These are grumblers, complainers, walking according to their own lusts; and they mouth great swelling words, flattering people to gain advantage. 17 But you, beloved, remember the words which were spoken before by the apostles of our Lord Jesus Christ: 18 how they told you that there would be mockers in the LAST TIMES who would walk according to their own ungodly lusts. 19 These are sensual persons, who cause divisions, not having the Spirit

the very manner of persons we see come against this idea, are described in the bible so yea i think we are in the last day's

NOW i think we are in the end days.

I cant explain it but i feel doomy

Originally posted by angelsrforever
Why can’t we see the warning signs? Who will be the first to admit their faults in contributing to our own destruction?

I have done and regretfully do things that aren't right. Thank God(literally) that He knows this and Jesus came.

The problems of the world are getting worse and are out of control and simply put, mankind does not have the ability to stop and/or fix them. You can throw billions of dollars at a problem and usually it's still a problem plus the billions spent were borrowed and the problem has now taken on a new twist. We still have the problem plus there is a financial debt that needs repaid.

That is why at some point in time Christ will return. He is the only one who can say to a "storm" , "Peace, be still", and have the problem go away.

Originally posted by Enkidu
You better go out right now and dress in sackcloth and go up into the mountains and wait for Jesus to come flying in from Heaven on a big white horse and rescue all the believers, like yourself. Yeah, it won't be long until you'll be strolling through Paradise, all full of the wonder and glory of the Lord Everlasting, basking in his radiant and holy love. Congratulations!

Unfortunately, heathens like myself won't be going, Between now and then, if you wouldn't mind giving me all of your money and property, I'd really appreciate it. It's true, after all, that "you can't take it with you."
Let me know, and I'll give you an address where you can send any money, deeds, stocks, or any other kind of bearer instruments.

It says no where in the Bible to go sit on a mountain and do nothing and wait for Jesus to come.

We are actually told the opposite.

Matthew 28:18
And Jesus came and spake unto them, saying, All power is given unto me in heaven and in earth.

28:19
Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:

28:20
Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and, lo, I am with you alway, even unto the end of the world. Amen.

and in Luke
19:11
And as they heard these things, he added and spake a parable, because he was nigh to Jerusalem, and because they thought that the kingdom of God should immediately appear.

19:12
He said therefore, A certain nobleman went into a far country to receive for himself a kingdom, and to return.

19:13
And he called his ten servants, and delivered them ten pounds, and said unto them, Occupy till I come.

It is your choice to remain when Christ returns. You are correct though when Jesus does come for us we will be leaving our material stuff behind. I would assume that there will be alot of looting going on so you are free to have and wisely use what I have left behind. I have several Bibles in my house, they should be the first thing you look for and use.

IMO the end of days will come when we want it to come.
It was promised, "ask and ye shall recieve", "God helps those who help themselves".

I think that what was described as the end of days, was what God saw as being our limit. Meaning, it will happen when things get bad enough that we all decide "no more". When we all decide to stop "crying" about it and start doing something about it and ask for God's help. There have been so many times when I have asked and recieved. Asking Gods help with full faith that he is going to give it is a difficult thing to ask, when it comes to ending our days. So, when it gets bad enough that all God's children ask him for help, that is when the end of days will be. I personally think that we are walking a real thin line right now. I think that all it will take is one more world war. God knows this, he knows our limit, and I believe it was our limit that was spoken of. There is no real time scale. He described the weapons we have now, tv, computers, and cars. Disease, earths pains from being overpopulated.

If we play our cards right, if we change, and start standing up for what is right, our "end of days" will be a while yet. I would love to see that happen, I just dont know that we will.

Do I wish for the end of days? Yes and no. I look and see what evil people do to children. The torture these innocent children go through, the hell that more and more have to live in.....it is not fair. Am I willing to give up watching my children play out side, watching the sunrise, and set, watching all of Gods miriacles unfold all around me? Am I willing to set all of that aside to join Gods army and fight off Satan, and defend the innocent? It will get worse before it gets better, but I know that the end result will be wonderful. Am I willing to ask for the end of days? As of a few days ago yes. I started to pray for that time to come. I dont want it to happen before God wants it to obviously. I know that he is waiting for each of his children to make their choice. Do I think it will happen just because I asked? No. But I know that God heard me and he is keeping tabs on who and how many ask and why. I think God is just watching and waiting for us to be truely ready.

Wow you are a wise very wise person as well as spiritual.
I totaly agree with you on every word you have put forth. Same as you I have found myself in very troubeling times and in those I have turned to GOD for help and YES he has heard my prayers and helped me in every way. The only wrong thing I have with todays society is that we only pray when we are in need, when all is good and well we go on and live our lifes not seeing that there is plenty of people in this world that have it really bad. And as brothers and sisters and children of God shouldnt we take care of each other? IT IS OUR TASK
But the day shall come when we will realize our true meaning and the task that God has put on us. For we have had and lost the LOVE and been searching for it long long time. If we continue down this path we shall never find the light at the end of the tunnel. For only sorrow will plague this earth. Pray for love and peace for YOU yourself are the KEY to GOD. No one can help you find GOD for he is only within.

Love to all

[edit on 20-4-2006 by theTRUTHtheWAY]

[edit on 20-4-2006 by theTRUTHtheWAY]

[edit on 20-4-2006 by theTRUTHtheWAY]

yes we are in the end of days..and as the days move on...and on..soon Martial Law will be imposed. Micro Chips in place...and then we will all be doomed. Oh and did I mention that people will be taken away to the camps?

It's very popular, especially these days, the belief that a micro chip will be the mark of the beast, simply because we have the technology for it. Also, because of a looming threat of a supposed "NWO" and Martial Law it's even more reason to believe that a micro chip would be a possibility...

However, when put under biblical scrutiny can we truly say, without a doubt, that the mark of the beast is a bar code or a micro chip? If literal Israel was SOOoOo blind concerning the coming of the Messiah that they could not see that Christ was the Messiah, then isn't it possible that Spiritual Israel ( the church ) will be blind concerning Christ 2nd Advent?

I ask this because if you contrast the Mark of the Beast with the Seal of God, which everyone WILL have, one or the other, before Christ 2nd coming, is it logical to assume that if the Mark of the Beast is a micro chip will the Seal of God be a microchip or a bar code from God himself??

Or could it possibly, just maybe... that the mark on the hand or forehead could be symbolic? Notice this verse...

Deut. 6: 5And thou shalt love the LORD thy God with all thine heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy might.
6And these words, which I command thee this day, shall be in thine heart:
7And thou shalt teach them diligently unto thy children, and shalt talk of them when thou sittest in thine house, and when thou walkest by the way, and when thou liest down, and when thou risest up.
8And thou shalt bind them for a sign upon thine hand, and they shall be as frontlets between thine eyes.


If this text is saying that you should love the Lord with all your heart and it shall be a sign upon thine hand and a frontlet between thine eyes ( forehead ) would i be off base to say that by our works and thoughts are we sealed either with the mark of the beast or the Seal of God? Consider these other verses....

Isaiah 59:6 Their webs shall not become garments, neither shall they cover themselves with their works: their works are works of iniquity, and the act of violence is in their hands.

Also... have you guys noticed that you can only get the Seal of God with the forehead, while you can get the Mark of the Beast in the forehead OR the hands? The reason for this is the proclamation Luther made during the Reformation, "Justification by FAITH alone" It is by grace are we saved through faith, and not of yourselves, it is the gift of God, not of works, lest any man should boast! Ephesians 2:8-9

If you're like me and do believe we are certainly living in the endtimes, then i implore you to study the bible and Prophecywith the help of the Holy Spirit, and he will lead you to all truth.

edit : I would like to also add that you cannot take anyone's word for it just because he's your longtime pastor or popular. Christ did say in the endtimes that in the last days there will be many that will come in his name and shall deceive MANY. I believe this prophecy has been fulfilled with the many church denominations who profess Christ and has the Bible as thier final authority and yet they all differ to some degree in doctrinal issues.

The bible should be our final authority, the bible says to "Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth." 2 Timothy 2:15

I would finally give a tip, using the bible and the bible only, while studying prophecy, especially Revelation. Out of the 404 verses in the book of Revelation, 278 of them could be found word for word in other places in the Bible, therefore we should use the bible to interpret the symbols, not let someone else interpret them.

An example of this would be, in refering to Jesus "And he had in his right hand seven stars: and out of his mouth went a sharp twoedged sword: and his countenance was as the sun shineth in his strength." Revelation 1:16. Are we to assume that when we see Jesus that he will have a literal sword out of his mouth? Or is this a symbol for something, and if it is a symbol, how can we interpret this symbol? Obviously, Revelation is a book plagued with symbols, therefore how do we interpret this symbol? By letting the bible do it, and searching somewhere else in scripture to determine what it means.

If you read Hebrews 4:12 the verse says "For the word of God is quick, and powerful, and sharper than any twoedged sword, piercing even to the dividing asunder of soul and spirit, and of the joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart."

Therefore, by using the bible, i think it makes sense to say that when I see in Revelation 1:16 that Jesus has a twoedged sword in his mouth, it represents the word of God.

Hope this helps anyone who is studying prophecy.





[edit on 20-4-2006 by Shortness]

[edit on 20-4-2006 by Shortness]

Originally posted by Prism_Cat

Originally posted by Amethyst
I'm not convinced the pre-trib Rapture thing is even true. Matthew chapter 24 points to a post-tribulation gathering of the saints.

So we Christians are in it for the long haul too....

Amethyst- the events in Matthew 24 refer to the final judgement of ALL souls, The "Sheep"(those saved by grace, through Christ), and the "Goats,(those who have rejected Christ). The Bible is clear that the "Church", meaning the Body of Christ) shall be removed from the earth along with the Holy Spirit before the Antichrist sets himself up as god in Jerusalem.. Whether the rapture of the church occurs pre-trib or mid-trib, though, there will always be persecution for those who truly love God. It is going on now throughout the world and will continue until all of Christ's sheep have been gathered to Himself.

God Bless,

PC

[edit on 4/19/2006 by Prism_Cat]

I think that those who think it is absolutely clear that the 2 Thess 2:3-4 verses point to a pre-tribulation rapture are vastly mistaken. I have written about this on other threads. In the new testament, many of the entities we think of as individual people are really corporate bodies.

2 Thess 2:3-4 refers to a group of Christians who will fall away, take the mark of the beast, reprobated by God (removes his spirit) and turn to betray the remaining believers during the tribulation. The prototype Son of Perdition was Judas Iscariot who walked with Jesus for 3.5 years fell away and betrayed him. Jesus himself talked about how he only lost the Son of Perdition in His prayer to the father at the end of His bodily ministry.
Secondly, though I know that the mainstream church preaches some eternal security doctrine, it is not biblical. Many verses, including, Ex 33:33, Luke 3:9, Rom 11:5,21, 1 Cor 9:27, Matt 22:14, Jude 12, Matt 25:30, John 15:16, and Hebrews 3:12 discuss God removing His Spirit from unproductive servants. Paul himself believed that He could be rejected/reprobated in 1 Cor 9:27 so it is possible, just not popular to talk about.

Also, it is clear that from Bible symbolism that Dan 9:27 is about christians (whose lives are continual burnt offerings Rom 12:1) in the temple (our bodies (Acts 17:24, Acts 15:16, 1 Cor 3:16). Those sacrifices are done away with because those believers are reprobated when they take the mark.