Clone Christ - DNA on Shroud

Clone Christ - DNA on Shroud

The shroud is fake....so no DNA on it. Or if there is, it certainly isn't the DNA of Jesus. It's pretty well known that the shroud was made by Leaonardo Da Vinci as a joke for his friends....

But whether it Da Vinci or someone else isn't the point. The point is, it's fake!

Originally posted by Excitable_Boy

The shroud is fake....so no DNA on it. The point is, it's fake!

So, there you go.

Case closed.

Mods!

Originally posted by Relentless


I am dumbfounded that anyone even thinks that cloning DNA from the Body of Christ would yeild anything more than another mortal body. His body was human, it may have been unique in some way, who knows, but why would anyone assume that a clone of that body would have any of the God essence that Christ possessed? That was not of the flesh.

[edit on 3/5/2006 by Relentless]

What is God essence? But it would be interesting to see if Christ was indeed a human.... or was he "something else"??

Originally posted by FlyersFanThe Advanced DNA folks at the University of Texas said that there
were enough blood 'globs' to get the XY from it, that it was a human,
that it was male, and the blood type was AB.
www.direct.ca...

Yes, that's what the sources I pointed to said. However, DNA isn't necessary for typing blood.

Byrd .. I get what you are saying that Pravda doesn't have real
news stories. But let me add - THIS TIME. I do think it is just a matter
of time before someone trys to clone, or claims that they have cloned
Christ, from any one of the relics that lay claim to carry his blood.

There's not enough DNA there to do anything with.

The real danger lies in some fraud showing up claiming that he is the 'clone' from the material on the Shroud of Turin. It would, of course, be a fraud (there's not any complete DNA there) but there are a number who would flock to believe something like this.

I don't think the person would actually have much of a chance of deceiving more than a fraction of the world (sort of like Benjamin Creme and his "Maritreya." The number believing in him is small (but occasionally vocal) and I can see a scenario like that.

Wow...

Have any of the Jesus fanbois figured out what they're going to do with the handful of horribly mutated Jesus', given that abortion is so wrong in the man's eyes?

Seriously?

Baby Jesus in a jar, five dollars US, Hong Kong shipping is super ready!

What's the error rate on cloning, usually seven or nine failures for every success, right? Who wants to kill Jesus a few more times? Wouldn't Christians find this disgusting and unacceptable? Would they elect to kill their savior a few more times to bring him back? Wow...



Obviously, this article is pretty far-fetched. Although it could hold the potential to get Christians to change their opinion of cloning and gene manipulation and abortion and so on.

Besides, the shroud's image doesn't look like Jesus. It looks like a certain Templar of note, whose name has been mentioned at least once on this thread already. It's a much more plausible explanation I think.

By all means clone Jacques, he got a rough deal the first time around.

Originally posted by WyrdeOne
What's the error rate on cloning, usually seven or nine failures for every success, right? Who wants to kill Jesus a few more times? Wouldn't Christians find this disgusting and unacceptable? Would they elect to kill their savior a few more times to bring him back? Wow...

Obviously, this article is pretty far-fetched. Although it could hold the potential to get Christians to change their opinion of cloning and gene manipulation and abortion and so on.

I won't speak for all Christians, but Catholics do not support cloning any more than they support abortion, and the Church would never sanction it at any cost. If the Church ever did, I'll be the first one to run for the hills.

Probably part of why they don't even allow most of these types of relics out at this point.

Originally posted by Excitable_Boy
The point is, it's fake!

No it's not.

If you wish to discuss the validity of the shroud -
www.abovetopsecret.com...

But even if it were fake, that's not the point.
My concern is that someone, somewhere will put together
an embryo, or other tissues, and CLAIM that they have
cloned Christ. That will open up HUGE issues, having a
'Christ clone' walking around.

All hail the Christ clone(s).

Get it??

[edit on 3/6/2006 by FlyersFan]

Originally posted by Byrd
The real danger lies in some fraud showing up claiming that he is the 'clone' from the material on the Shroud of Turin.

Yes. THAT is what I'm getting at.

A clone - fake or otherwise - from the Shroud, from the blood
on The Holy Steps, from the bones of Christ's relatives ....

I don't think the person would actually have much of a
chance of deceiving more than a fraction of the world
... sort of like Benjamin Creme and his "Maritreya."

You have more faith in people than I do. I DO think a lot of people
would fall for it. A lot. And it wouldn't take much. Take a look at
all of the religious extremism around the planet.

I understand your point on Maytraya. But Benjamin Creme's
fake Messiah doesn't have a base that it was working with. It
is a 'stand alone' cult. Christianity is 1/3 of the population of
the planet. And a lot of the others on the planet have heard
of Christianity and know that according to Christianity, Christ
is supposed to return. There is already a base. There is already
an expectation.

Just the fact that I was able to pick up this story, from a news site
that caters to Christians, tells me that they are concerned that it
could happen, and they are concerned about who could be made.

Even if the science says it can't (I think eventually they will be
able to) ... and it matters not if the shroud is real or not ...
sheeple will BELIEVE IT.

Pravda is a poor source of information. Here is an article from a seperate source from 1996.

www.uthscsa.edu...
Victor V. Tryon, PhD, assistant professor in microbiology and director of the university's Center for Advanced DNA Technologies, examined the DNA of one so-called "blood glob" from two separate microscopic shroud samples. He reported isolating signals from three different human genes by employing polymerase chain reaction, which can detect pieces of double-stranded DNA.

This sounds like they don't have a full genome. The object has been handled by many people over the long time that it was existed, even if it was the death shroud of jesus, there's no reason to think that dna from the shroud is his.

The person involved doesn't even seem to be at the university any more. Looks like pravda is taking something from a decade ago and pretending its news.

Here is another article about the topic
www.shroud.com...

Question:
Why is the science that shows there is DNA present accepted as true, but the science that shows that the shroud is not 2,000 years old rejected?

No it's not.

If you wish to discuss the validity of the shroud -
www.abovetopsecret.com...

But even if it were fake, that's not the point.
My concern is that someone, somewhere will put together
an embryo, or other tissues, and CLAIM that they have
cloned Christ. That will open up HUGE issues, having a
'Christ clone' walking around.

Maybe Christ wasn't really the Messiah. A lot of people worshipped him as the son of God while he was alive and most of the world has worshipped him as such ever since. Kind of like following a clone if Jesus wasn't the Messiah, no?

If I wish to discuss the validity of the shroud, you need not direct me to another thread....it's noteworthy on this thread to discuss the validity of the shroud....for, if the shroud is a fraud, then this whole discussion is moot!

In your theory, people could follow the "false Jesus" (the clone)...well, people follow false prophets every single day of the week all over the world...so why would this theoretical situation be any different?

I wouldn't worry about the Christ Clones. I would be worried about Christ Clowns! Example of a Christ Clown: people that think the Shroud of Turin is real.

[edit on 6-3-2006 by Excitable_Boy]

Lets keep the topic to the information in the pravda article. Clearly, discussion about the validity of the shroud and the validity of jesus as christ are acceptable topics, but lets not let them overshadow the main questions here, which are, as I see them (but this is of course open to interpretations):

1. Was DNA recovered and is it enough to make a clone
   
2. What are the implications of a jesus clone

Probably easier, they do exist today, there is no doubt about that.

Jesus DNA has an extra "holiness" chromosome in it. Here's a diagram of it:

Originally posted by Nygdan

What are the implications of a jesus clone

In a lot of ways they'd be scary. In the first place, how would the cloned Jesus react to the modern world? We know he wasn't too happy about the money-changers in the temple...how would he react to the machinations of the World Bank or the IMF? Would He see our materialistic ways as against everything He believes in?

How would He react to the religion in his name? We know he was Jewish and that even after his crucifixion, both Simon Peter as well as his brother (maybe) James continued His work within Judaism.

What would he think of Saul of Tarsus?

All of the above assumes that Jesus would be the same man in spirit.

Would the original soul of Jesus be in the body of the cloned Jesus? Maybe not...and the power which would go out to (h)im from the churches could in fact produce the perfect antiChrist.

Interesting question...
.

Just wanted to add 2 cents worth.

This site's pretty good and I see it hasn't been posted yet, the information is a little older but has some very good scientific points.

It also tends to refelect more on the shroud itself and not whom it enveloped. It's a bit of a read but interesting enough.

www.historian.net...

Well, this thread has been...interesting to say the least.

While I don't happen to agree with FF on the validity of the shroud itself (I don't think it's real), I do agree with her that a person could say they created christ or say they are christ, via a cloning shroud (no pun intended).

I figure in America, about 1/6 of the christio-catholic population would fall for it.


I satrted thinking about this after reading Masqua's last post.

Now, say that they actually cloned from the DNA or raised a child to believe he was christ, and embedded all his ideals into him, if Jesus did'nt like money and materialism and thought people should work for the good of all and help each other, well that sounds like socialism, now I'm relatively sure that if the faux-Jesus got total rewcognition by the church, and subsequently it's members, and he started preaching that, well,
I figure his fan base would diminish quite a bit.

That, or he'd be called a commie.

The Shroud was episode 510 of the Outer Limits with the cloning Jesus scenario.

The Second Coming Project was a tongue in cheek exercise during the year 2000, but the idea surely got people going.

The Clone of Contention website shows more interesting ideas.



The Ascension by Rembrandt

[edit on 7-3-2006 by SkipShipman]

I do agree with her that a person could say they created christ or say they are christ, via a cloning shroud (no pun intended).

Also...let's not forget....a clone is still a separate human being and, as such, would not be Jesus anyway (if it were possible to clone Jesus). It would look like Jesus, but it would not be Jesus.

Jesus was a prophet (some believe the son of God). This does not mean the clone would be. In fact, the clone wouldn't be the same at all. It would just look the same!

[edit on 7-3-2006 by Excitable_Boy]

I am the 1000th viewer of this post it was 999. Congratulations 1000 times this post has been viewed. Wish they put view marks on each post. Any I think there is a head towel from the tomb as well as a shroud that compliments the Bible and the shroud in Spain somewhere.

Originally posted by AnAbsoluteCreation
I've heard many times that the turin was a fake to legitimize christianity in a rough period (like the fake wood from the ark a while back). Nonetheless, do we have a basis for comparision to prove the claims that its Christ. Hell, we could be cloning a body of evil (or not). AAC

Yep, Turin is a horrible fake. The guy on the Shroud looks nothing like what Jesus probably would have looked like. The face of the man on the Shroud is a complete replica of the way Leonardo and other Europeans invisioned Jesus. He looks too much like the person on the Last Supper. So what are the chances that these artistists miraculously depicted Jesus down to a science when they didnt know what he looked like? Thats white hype, the way white people would depict Jesus, the world is much bigger than Europe and most people do not recognize the guy on the Last Supper or the man on the shroud. People gotta start thinking for themselves.