Clone Christ - DNA on Shroud

english.pravda.ru...

Yep. I figured it was just a matter of time. They've got
the blood samples from the shroud. The DNA is being
analyzed. God only knows what they plan to do with
it. (no pun intended)

Excerpt

Pravda
Jan 27, 2006

The University of Texas Center for Advanced DNA Technologies, USA,
analyzed the DNA of the bloodstains. Head of the Center Victor Tryon
confirmed that was human genetic material. It was divided into several
samples and sent to different laboratories for further analysis.

No results of the research have been published yet but there are certainly
some. Dr. Leoncio A. Garza-Valdes, one of the few researchers allowed to
touch the shroud of Turin is working on his book that will have a shocking
name, The DNA of God.

The very abbreviation DNA seemed to be rather common for majority of
people a couple of years ago. But today it is a serious cause for anxiety.
Indeed, DNA gives researchers an opportunity to produce clones, a copy
of any creature whose DNA is available for experiments. Experiments of
this type have been already made public: Dolly the sheep became an
absolute cloned copy of a sheep whose genetic material, DNA, was
available.


More at the site -
english.pravda.ru...

[edit on 3/4/2006 by FlyersFan]

www.abovetopsecret.com...

Shroud authenticity has been previously discussed here.
There are some interesting links to read that could have
to do with this subject on this thread. So I'm posting this
thread so ya'll can cross check if you wish.

Would like to include this post...

www.abovetopsecret.com...

from this thread...

www.abovetopsecret.com...

How reliable is this source?

It was my understanding that the Shorud of Turin was not being released for further study or examination from years ago. The article indicates that samples were sent to multiple people for analysis.

Can we confirm any of this?

As for what they would do with it, I can't think of anything that would come to any good, except maybe prove a few cases of miracles where the Host has actually turned to flesh or blood if a match occurred in any of those that have been preserved. Any other uses, would be of grave concern I would suspect.

nerdling pointed out a rather odd dealio about it, R. Why is an Air Force physicist involved in this?

Not to mention, that if you look up that book mentioned, "The DNA of God", the author is a pediatrician with a hobby of archaeomicrobiology.

Now why would he have access to this information?



Check out the book at Amazon.

Will do, R! Also, we should keep an eye on any similar efforts with Veronica's Veil.

Well, we already have this from the article too:

A little-known relic kept in a monastery in Oviedo, Spain, is a swath of an ancient fabric with bloodstains. Recent expertise has revealed that the blood on the cloth is identical to the blood on the shroud of Turin. The cloth of 83x53 cm in size is called Sudarium which means “face cloth” in Latin. Researchers believe it is the cloth with which Christ’ face was covered after he was crucified and was kept folded up in a coffin together with the dead body.

english.pravda.ru...

When and how did this occur? The wording is rather odd too - "Recent expertise has revealed" - what the hey does that mean?

This interesting article has led me to the following site that seems to be an everything you ever wanted to know about the Shroud of Turin. The site is extensive and will take hours of reading, but regarding DNA on the shroud itself, here is their take (sorry the quote is so long, but I felt this part needed to be completely quoted):

Q: Has DNA testing ever been performed on the Shroud, assuming the blood stains still have traces of DNA?

A: Several years ago, some Texas researchers did a DNA study of supposed Shroud bloodstains, but the provenance of the samples they used was questionable and their results have not been officially recognized. Nonetheless, their findings concluded that the blood on the Shroud is from a male human. They also stated that the blood is so old and degraded that very few DNA segments were found, eliminating any possibility of "cloning" anything from the blood found on the cloth. Other DNA experts argue however, that so much contamination exists on the Shroud that no DNA test, no matter how carefully done, could ever be considered definitive. During the 1978 exhibition and scientific examination, the cloth was handled by many people, including most members of STURP, the Church authorities who prepared it for display, the Poor Clare nuns who unstitched portions of it, visiting dignitaries (including the Archbishop of Turin and the emissary of King Umberto) and countless others. During the five days and nights of the 1978 examination, the Shroud was continuously exposed to contamination as it lay unprotected on the support table. Every member of our research team, including myself, left DNA on the cloth. And remember, the cloth has been displayed and handled thousands of times throughout its history. Once again, the Shroud presents us with an enigma that even DNA evidence may not definitively unravel.

www.shroud.com...

So it indicates, from someone who suppossedly was involved with the last examination of the shroud I knew about, that the cloth at this point is too contaminated and degraded to ever get a truly reliable DNA sample from it.

brilliant!!! Thats a good idea

I don't wish to toss too big of a monkey wrench into the notion that it is the blood of Christ, but, as with most things of this nature, the Templars once again wrap their mysteries around something...in this case, the shroud of Turin. In either case, there would have to be comparisons made to living relatives to make the DNA a viable link. In the case of DeMolay, it might be possible...in the case of the Christ, I'm not sure where they'd go.

link
Authors Christopher Knight and Robert Lomas in their book The Second Messiah claim that the image on the shroud is that of Jacques deMolay, the last Grand Master of the Order of the Knights Templar.
In 1307, deMolay was charged with heresy by king Philip IV of France. According to the Knight and Lomas, deMolay was tortured at the direction of the Chief Inquisitor of France, William Imbert afer about seven years of imprisonment. They contend that his arms and legs were nailed in a manner similar to crucifixion, possibly to a large wooden door. Then deMolay was laid on a length of linen cloth on a soft bed. The cloth was then pulled over his head and body and deMolay was left to recover from his wounds. The use of a burial shroud is defended by suggesting that the Knights Templar used shrouds in ceremonies. It is all highly speculative and moot.

Interesting thread, though... cloning either DeMolay or Christ


.

I don't trust anything that comes from Pravda. Sometimes they'll have some real news, if they got it from a real news source themselves...but most of the time it's just made up stories.

Originally posted by Arcane Demesne
I don't trust anything that comes from Pravda. Sometimes they'll have some real news, if they got it from a real news source themselves...but most of the time it's just made up stories.

Why can't we take the story on?

Does it really matter where it originates? If it's bunkum, I'm sure that the knives of the researchers here at ATS will get down to surgery in a hurry.

By your reasoning...all media is suspect.

I'm interested in where this might lead...
.

I've heard many times that the turin was a fake to legitimize christianity in a rough period (like the fake wood from the ark a while back). Nonetheless, do we have a basis for comparision to prove the claims that its Christ. Hell, we could be cloning a body of evil (or not). AAC

Originally posted by masqua
Why can't we take the story on?

Does it really matter where it originates? If it's bunkum, I'm sure that the knives of the researchers here at ATS will get down to surgery in a hurry.

By your reasoning...all media is suspect.

I'm interested in where this might lead...

I do agree it is a very interesting story in and of itself. I'm also kinda cheering for it to be real. (t would freak out christians to know ends, whether the shroud is real or not).


But it's generally been proved over and over here on ATS that almost everything you find on Pravda, is not found anywere else. Now, that doesn't automatically make it false, but it does give it MUCH more suspicion. I just think it's safer to look for a more 'credible' source before going bonkers over an article.

And Pravda always has interesting (controversial) articles. That's what they're there for.

hopefully they do get the full dna, and its actually jesus, that way we can figure out what makes his super-power dna different from ours, and we can all be able to heal sick people, and make miracles...once we get implanted with some of his dna. the world will be perfect.
but on a more serious note, the shroud is made up. so no real jesus dna

Hmm,well, I have two issues with this idea of using the Shroud blood to clone Jesus.

1) My graduate thesis was concerning the viability of extracting nuclear DNA (nDNA) from corpses in varied environments. I used a woodland environment, submerged environment, and arid environment (sealed in a dry incubator) and emploted rat models for the research. After the experiments completion, it was shown viable DNA can only be safely and reliably extrated for about 5 -6 weeks. After that, DNases and endonucleases have chopped the DNA up too much to be usable for any procedure, including polymerase chai nreaction and restriction fragment lenth polymorphism, the most prevalent procedures used to clone DNA. This is why any researcher will tell you a Jurassic Park situation is not possible, even if you do fill it in with modern lizard DNA.

2) My other main problem is the idea of WHICH TYPE of DNA they plan to use. nDNA (see previous point) is totally unique to the individual. This is the DNA you MUST use in order to get an exact clone of an individual, but it is easily degraded. Mitochondrial DNA (mtDNA) can and does survive for thousands of years, but is much less specific. Because the ovum accounts for most of the organelles at your conception (including the mitochondria), your mtDNA is exactly identical to your mother's, and her mother's, and her mother's, etc. So, if theywere to use mitochondrial DNA from the shroud, you would really only get a clone of some ancestor of his mtDNA line.

So, I think those two points pretty much negate any chance of cloning Jesus. Not to mention cloning someone doesn't mean they'll be the same person since they'll be growing up in a different environment You can tell him he's Jesus all you want, but to him, he'll be some guy in the year 2006 who was created in a laboratory.

~MFP

Just a few words of caution, never trust Pravda. You might just as well quote World Weekly News.

Originally posted by GradyPhilpott
Just a few words of caution, never trust Pravda. You might just as well quote World Weekly News.

The Shroud of Turin exists...
Jesus Christ is thought to have existed...and I think He did...
Jacques DeMolay certainly did exist, beyond any doubt...

Like you, Grady, I don't trust anything PRAVDA, India Daily, C2C,CBC, CNN, FOX or any other news outlet says, for that matter...it's all been trimmed, structured and edited for the masses.

I also believe that the least trusted media is most likely to come out with the really radical stories that the mainstream would never touch for fear of being embarrassed by it.

A story like this sinks or swims on it's own, imo, and I can't understand why the source has any relevance when discussing it.

I'd like to hear more about the Shroud of Turin, and I'm glad Flyers Fan found that link and started this thread.
.

Originally posted by masqua
[ If it's bunkum, I'm sure that the knives of the researchers here at ATS will get down to surgery in a hurry.

Okay, I've got my knife out and I'm ready to make the first incision. Let's start with the first sentence of the article.

It seems that one of the prophecies made by St. John the Baptist is coming true. “When the thousand years are completed, Satan will be released from his prison, and will come out to deceive the nations which are in the four corners of the earth.”

english.pravda.ru

Pravda's quoted material regarding Satan is from the Book of Revelation, Chapter 20, which was authored by John the Evangelist., not John the Baptist, who was beheaded at the order of King Herod during the life of Jesus. The Book of Revelation was written at some time between 68 AD and 96 AD.

That's getting off to a pretty bad start, though it's not a surprising error coming from a country that officially abolished the practice of religion for about 70 years, but it is nonetheless a glaring lack of attention to detail, journalistically speaking. Others can address the authenticity of the article from their own perspectives.

[edit on 2006/3/4 by GradyPhilpott]