If It Does Not Fit...You Must Acquit!

Originally posted by kmrod

Or, maybe they're mistaken and that's just a picture of someone else.

Funny how you're claiming that's not him (and it might not be) but the other guys he was traveling with and who helped hijack the plane aren't in question.

www.cooperativeresearch.org...

Actually they are.

And maybe you're not hip to this other little detail...

THERE IS *NO* TIME/DATE STAMP ON THE VIDEO!!!

The Dulles Video released *July 20, 2005* [Flt 77]:
Watch Here

July 20, 2005
(CNN) -- A surveillance video from Washington's Dulles International Airport the morning of September 11, 2001, shows four of five hijackers passing through security checks before boarding the plane they would crash into the Pentagon.

"Nawaf Alhazmi" gets searched, "Khalid Almihdhar", and "Hani Hanjour".

The US introduces the “Visa Express” program in Saudi Arabia, which allows any Saudi Arabian to obtain a visa through his or her travel agent instead of appearing at a consulate in person. An official later states, “The issuing officer has no idea whether the person applying for the visa is actually the person in the documents and application.” [9/11 Congressional Inquiry, 9/20/02; US News and World Report, 12/12/01]Five hijackers—Khalid Almihdhar, Abdulaziz Alomari, Salem Alhazmi, Saeed Alghamdi, and Fayez Ahmed Banihammad—use Visa Express over the next month to enter the US. [9/11 Congressional Inquiry, 9/20/02]

Salem Alhazmi

Or...


Salem Alhazmi


Possible mistaken identity. Then why do they still use the name and where did they get his photo:

The real Salem Al-Hazmi, however, is alive and indignant in Saudi Arabia, and not one of the people who perished in the American Airlines flight that crashed on the Pentagon. He works at a government-owned petroleum and chemical plant in the city of Yanbu.

"The Salem Al-Hamzi we have is 26 years old and has never been to the United States," Gaafar Allagany told the Washington Post. "He has said he is willing to come to the United States if anyone wants to see him."

But wait a minute...there is another Salem Al-Hamzi and this is where it gets interesting...

February 2001: Two Hijackers Seen Living in San Antonio with Swapped Identities Complete 911 Timeline

At least six people with no connections to one another later claim they recognize hijackers Satam Al Suqami and Salem Alhazmi living in San Antonio, Texas, until this month. The management of an apartment building says the two men abandoned their leases at about this time, and some apartment residents recognize them. However, all the witnesses say that Suqami was going by Alhazmi's name, and vice versa! [KENS 5 Eyewitness News, 10/1/01] One pilot shop employee recognizes Alhazmi as a frequent visitor to the store and interested in a 757 or 767 handbook, though he also says Alhazmi used Suqami's name. [KENS 5 Eyewitness News, 10/3/01] The apartment-leasing agent also recalls a Ziad Jarrah who once lived there in June 2001 and looked the same as the hijacker. [Associated Press, 9/22/01 (B); San Antonio Express-News, 9/22/01] Local FBI confirm that a Salem Alhazmi attended the nearby Alpha Tango Flight School and lived in that apartment building, but they say he is a different Salem Alhazmi who is still alive and living in Saudi Arabia. [KENS 5 Eyewitness News, 10/4/01] However, that “Salem Alhazmi” says he has never been to the US and has proven to the authorities that he did not leave Saudi Arabia in the two years prior to 9/11. [Washington Post, 9/20/01] The FBI does not explain Satam Al Suqami's presence. Neither hijacker is supposed to have arrived in the US before April 2001.

This is good because this is AFTER the Sept 27 FBI photos came out. Notice how people are "recognizing" their faces. So why would FBI say people are mistaken? Here we have a clear case of something very fishy going on officially.They recoginize him, yet he say he was using another hijackers name and the other was using his. Then the FBI say nope, not him that was "a Salem Alhazmi attended the nearby Alpha Tango Flight School and lived in that apartment building" but then say "he is a different Salem Alhazmi who is still alive and living in Saudi Arabia". HOW IS THIS ACTUALLY POSSIBLE? So people see two hijackers, names are swapped, except one they are mistaken on, he is actually innocent and alive. Except why would the alive one be USING THE NAME Satam Al Suqami?????


Khalidal Mihdhar:


ALIVE?

May be an assumed name; there are reports he is still alive [CNN]

Officials, speaking on condition of anonymity, said they were exploring several possibilities. One was that al-Midhar never entered the country and his name was simply used as an alias by one of the hijackers who died. Another possibility was that he allowed his name to be used on the flight by another hijacker, so that U.S. officials might assume he died, giving him time to escape the country. A third was that he did in fact die in the crash as a hijacker. [Guardian]

Badr Mohammed H. Hazmi, a San Antonio radiologist under arrest as a material witness, has used the alias of Khalid Al-Midhar, who is listed by the FBI as a hijacker on the flight that struck the Pentagon, according to documents distributed to law enforcement agencies. [Washington Post]



Three pictures of Almihdhar shown by the media

Eight days after the planes went down, the Federal Deposit Insurance Corp. distributed a "special alert" to its member banks asking for information about 21 "alleged suspects" in the attacks. The list said "Al-Midhar, Khalid Alive," raising the possibility that the real Almihdhar never died on the plane. But one Justice Department official called the listing a "typo." [Cox News Service]



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

While the FBI's confusion over Arabic names and identities was largely ignored in the American press, each blunder has made huge news in Saudi Arabia, casting doubt on U.S. intentions and convincing many Saudis that their country has been slandered.

"I want to think all this is a mistake," said a bewildered Khalid al-Mihammadi, 24, a computer programmer from Mecca who was named wrongfully in an early list of hijackers released by the U.S. Justice Department. "We are America's friends, and they do this to us. It isn't fair."

Al-Mihammadi, who spent nine months studying English in the U.S., said he was watching television at home when shaken friends saw his photograph on the news and began to call to see if he was still alive. [Chicago Tribune]

Even Wikipedia acknowledges this:

After the attacks, reports began emerging saying that al-Mihdhar was still alive. On September 19, the FDIC distributed an official document clearly stating that al-Mihdhar is alive. The Justice Department says that this was a typo.[29][30] The BBC and The Guardian have since reported that there was evidence al-Mihdhar was still alive. This al-Midhar may have been a man with the same name.

Late in 2005, Army Lt. Col. Anthony Shaffer and Congressman Curt Weldon alleged that the Defense Department data mining project Able Danger had kept al-Mihdhar, Mohamed Atta, Nawaf al-Hazmi and Marwan al-Shehhi all under surveillance as Al-Qaeda agents.


The three photographs of al-Mihdhar released by the FBI do not appear to be the same person.
en.wikipedia.org...

Does this guy...



Look like this guy?





An al-Qaida veteran

Khalid al-Mihdhar has been called an "al-Qaida veteran" by the CIA, and has fought in several major conflicts throughout his life. He was born in Mecca, Saudi Arabia, and in 1995 he went with Nawaf al-Hazmi (another alleged 9/11 hijacker) to Bosnia to join the fight between Muslims and Serbs.
en.wikipedia.org...

Does that look like the face of a veteran? In this picture he is 25/26.


Does he look like this guy? Does this guy look 25/26?



(Note the '9/11 Muscle' is only 5'6" and 142lbs)

Merc...

I'm starting to think that ATS is ready for a hijacker thread.

Hook 'em up baby!

I would like people to take a look at this huge thread started by CatHerder before continuing the discussion, it might change your mind. 142 pages of it discussion...

The original post is well laid out and easy to understand with all sources if you wish to research it further.





9/11: A Boeing 757 Struck the Pentagon

The Zodiac,

Originally posted by The Zodiac
I would like people to take a look at this huge thread started by CatHerder before continuing the discussion, it might change your mind. 142 pages of it discussion...

9/11: A Boeing 757 Struck the Pentagon

aHAHAHA!

That crusty old moldy piece of debunked garbage??

Where have YOU been?

Time to take a look at THIS thread:

9/11: A Boeing 757 *DID NOT* Strike the Pentagon


It is also quite easy to read and RIPS CATHERDERS NONSENSE TO SHREDS point by point.

Way to show up late to the party empty handed!

[edit on 6-3-2006 by Jack Tripper]

Originally posted by The Zodiac
I would like people to take a look at this huge thread started by CatHerder before continuing the discussion, it might change your mind. 142 pages of it discussion...

Nice move Agent Zodiac.

Why don't you take on the information head on?

Yeah everybody, listen to the anonymous (banned) member with ZERO aeronautical/aviation eperience or background.

Or you could listen to:

Michael Meyers, Mechanical Engineer from the Aerospace industry

Joe Hryczyk, FAA Licensed Airframe & Powerplant Mechanic

Nila Sagadevin, Aeronautical Engineer and Commercial Pilot

Glen Stanish, Commercial Airline Pilot

Col George Nelson, Air Force ret.

Russ Wittenberg, Commercial and former military pilot.

Wow harsh reaction from someone who wouldn't bother to even read it.....

I am not saying Catherder was correct but the last post was Feb, 27(the day before this thread started) so trying to start a new thread is a waste of time. If you have stuff to discuss post it there, All points, even those on which CathHerder(or AbovetopSecret.com) were wrong are thoroughly discussed. Oh but you two are too wise to post there, right? If you feel my contribution was less then yours you've got a high opinion of yourself.

I am not "ripping" anyone's work, just trying to share the knowledge of ATS. There would be alot less garbage if people would stop making these threads. Here I will share a whole page full of links on this stuff which has been ALREADY COVERED:
Possible reason for no debris at pentagon.
9/11] Pentagon Anti-Missile defense system
Proof that the pentagon didn't get hit by a boeing 757
Or how about in this thread you already started Perp:Mechanical Engineers Destroy the Myths
This was posted by Masked Avatar on a thread made in Jan:

Been here at this point in this discussion a dozen times in a short ATS career.
Try ATS Search too!

Don't let this forum be so full of junk like War on Terrorism with more than 10,000 threads.

The Zodiac,


[edit on 6-3-2006 by The Zodiac]

Originally posted by The Zodiac
Don't let this forum be so full of junk like War on Terrorism with more than 10,000 threads.

Too late.

Every time a new debate on the Pentagon or WTC develops, it is mostly the same things all over again.

I don't really mind, personally, since it's already gotten to the point where this is the case already. These other guys apparently don't mind either. It doesn't take up too much of my time to recap something for someone, compared to how much time it would take them to go read over everything that has already been posted. I would rather jump in and learn the ropes quickly and thoroughly by having to debate them, than in a half-assed and more time-consuming manner by reading others' posts and trying to see how the arguments of others evolve.

What's a shame, imo, is going over the same points with the same people, again and again and again. Ask Howard about this one.

[edit on 6-3-2006 by bsbray11]

Both Merc and I have read that thread inside and out long before we ever joined ATS.

He joined and contributed SIGNIFICANTLY to that thread and then I joined in order to participate in the debunk thread.


catherder's thread is finished.

Done.

The info is incomplete and incorrect.

It has been thoroughly debunked and catherder doesn't show his/her face in this forum any longer.

I can't blame him/her though.

I'd hide in shame after posting such blatant misinformation also.

Originally posted by bsbray11

Originally posted by The Zodiac
Don't let this forum be so full of junk like War on Terrorism with more than 10,000 threads.

Too late.

Every time a new debate on the Pentagon or WTC develops, it is mostly the same things all over again.

I thought I just heard you say you flip-flopped again on this issue.

Apparenly you're still learning despite the "rehash"!

Originally posted by Jack Tripper
I thought I just heard you say you flip-flopped again on this issue.

Apparenly you're still learning despite the "rehash"!

Only because you put those images together.

I was too lazy to get into the more involved Pentagon stuff; learning the ins and outs of one issue is study enough when you want to have an idea of what you're talking about. You have to admit, the WTC is simpler; it's easier to demonstrate problems there.

The only times there are real developments, though, aside from things like that, are when new experts come out to say this or that. Or maybe when there's another skyscraper fire, or building demolition. Or plane crash.

[edit on 6-3-2006 by bsbray11]

Actually I have to give Merc credit for that.

Those composites kill the OS for sure.

Originally posted by Jack Tripper
That crusty old moldy piece of debunked garbage??

Where have YOU been?

Time to take a look at THIS thread:

9/11: A Boeing 757 *DID NOT* Strike the Pentagon


It is also quite easy to read and RIPS CATHERDERS NONSENSE TO SHREDS point by point.

Perhaps you're convinced by the nonsensical ranting in the Joe Quinn article, but that doesn't mean the rest of us can't bring up the valid evidence presented by Catherder.

Calling people agents and dismissing evidence that you disagree with does not make your information any more correct.

Where did I call somebody an agent?

And I did not merely dismiss catherder.

I linked a perfectly coherent point by point debunk of it.

Calling it "nonsensical" doesn't take away from the fact that it thoroughly debunked catherder.

Originally posted by LeftBehind
Perhaps you're convinced by the nonsensical ranting in the Joe Quinn article, but that doesn't mean the rest of us can't bring up the valid evidence presented by Catherder.

Calling people agents and dismissing evidence that you disagree with does not make your information any more correct.

There is nothing valid about that info.

In fact, if you still support it today. Then you may as well be an agent.

I admit it would have been smarter to post the re-cap of the discussion, rather than the discussion itself.

Originally posted by Jack Tripper
Both Merc and I have read that thread inside and out long before we ever joined ATS. He joined and contributed SIGNIFICANTLY to that thread and then I joined in order to participate in the debunk thread.

Try making some significant posts in his thread then. There is only so many mod's, with only so much (voluntary) time. Why do you think ATS now uses tags?

Originally posted by Jack Tripper
catherder's thread is finished. Done.

Kind of like 9/11? It was almost 5 years ago, and the people are long dead. It wouldn't suprise me if the Bush adminstration was involved in another cover-up, the amount of scandals lately isn't even funny, but proving a 9/11 conspiracy isn't as important to me as seeing justification for the 30x that which died in Iraq more recently. Why not try to prosecute the Bush-admin as war criminals for going to war in Iraq under knowingly false pretenses against the approval of the U.N.?

If a drug-dealer kills someone, the crown wants a conviction for murder more than trafficking.

Originally posted by Jack Tripper
The info is incomplete and incorrect. It has been thoroughly debunked and catherder doesn't show his/her face in this forum any longer. I can't blame him/her though. I'd hide in shame after posting such blatant misinformation also.

After re-reading my post I can see why you may think I was promoting Catherder. It's not that his info was correct or incorrect but all points that could possibly be discussed, were. The members who are starting these threads are perfectly within their "rights", I just don't understand why so many are needed.

The Zodiac,


[edit on 6-3-2006 by The Zodiac]

Originally posted by The Zodiac

Kind of like 9/11? It was almost 5 years ago, and the people are long dead. It wouldn't suprise me if the Bush adminstration was involved in another cover-up, the amount of scandals lately isn't even funny, but proving a 9/11 conspiracy isn't as important to me as seeing justification for the 30x that which died in Iraq more recently. Why not try to prosecute the Bush-admin as war criminals for going to war in Iraq under knowingly false pretenses against the approval of the U.N.?

If a drug-dealer kills someone, the crown wants a conviction for murder more than trafficking.

This is where you are wrong. 9/11 is the pretext for the iraq war and all of the wars to come in this PERMANENT GLOBAL WAR on terror. They continue to use this pretext to brainwash the minds of the world into accepting their neoconservative agenda and unamerican "doctrine of pre-emption". No real patriot can sit back and allow them to do this when we know that 9/11 was a lie.

After re-reading my post I can see why you may think I was promoting Catherder. It's not that his info was correct or incorrect but all points that could possibly be discussed, were. The members who are starting these threads are perfectly within their "rights", I just don't understand why so many are needed.

You asked so I will tell.

It's because that catherder deception has been pushed up to the top of any search that is made for the word pentagon or anything related.

This is wrong, dangerous, and shameful.

It is pure deception and if you read the debunk that I linked you to first you would know this. Have read the debunk?

I hold catherder responsible for causing a rift in the truth movement.

Whether it was deliberate or not....that is what happened.

I specifically joined this forum with one goal.......to expose the deception of catherders post and to try and reverse some of the damage that it has done.

By now....in the interest of truth.......ATS should be renouncing the claims made by catherder and make front page proclimations that he/she/it has been thoroughly debunked.

Just like they did for "project serpo".

Originally posted by Jack Tripper
This is where you are wrong. 9/11 is the pretext for the iraq war and all of the wars to come in this PERMANENT GLOBAL WAR on terror. They continue to use this pretext to brainwash the minds of the world into accepting their neoconservative agenda and unamerican "doctrine of pre-emption". No real patriot can sit back and allow them to do this when we know that 9/11 was a lie.

They used WMD as much as 9/11 for the Iraq war and I think they will try to use WMD's as an excuse in future wars more than 9/11. WMD's are more of an issue, because none were ever found and we still went to war.

You asked so I will tell. It's because that catherder deception has been pushed up to the top of any search that is made for the word pentagon or anything related. This is wrong, dangerous, and shameful. It is pure deception and if you read the debunk that I linked you to first you would know this. Have read the debunk? I hold catherder responsible for causing a rift in the truth movement.Whether it was deliberate or not....that is what happened. Just like they did for "project serpo".

Serpo was a nightmare which I think everyone wishes they could forget. Searches for 9/11, Pentagon turned up nothing at the top of the page. I do remember reading it, as you say when ATS was promoting it, just like Serpo because of its number of posts not the veracity of their claims. The new ATS 2006 doesn't even have those on the Board Home page so where exactly are the still promoting it? The debunk is filled with Merc the Perp using two accounts to talk to himself(like this one)and other than ANOK is the only one supporting Lyte Trizzle. It was also filled with members actually debunking the debunk thread and I understand that Merc was just treating me as others treated him. Even if a 757 did hit the pentagon, it takes nothing away from the conspiracy behind 9/11.

Quotes like this from Zedd, Zaphod, and Nerdling make Lyte Trizzle look really dumb, and yet your promoting this debunk as if it went in your favor....

Originally posted by ZeddicusZulZorander
If this was all a government conspiracy, why go to the bother of using a missile or fighter to hit the Pentagon when a 757 would do just fine, make a bigger bang, and there would be no need for a cover-up? Just one question. Should be easy to answer.

Originally posted by Nerdling
Shh! No rational thought allowed. They're all experts.

Originally posted by Zaphod58You can't even get the information about the engines right, but yet you know everything about what happened that day. If you can't even get THAT right, then what ELSE of your "debunking" is wrong. It took me less than a minute to find that info about the engines. Great job of researching that. Notice also that it weighs THREE TONS not six.

Originally posted by 12m8keall2c
Not to hijack the thread, but I obviously gave you much more credit than due.

Troll plain and simple.

Alright Lyte?

The Zodiac,


[edit on 6-3-2006 by The Zodiac]

What does the ranting of the pseudoskeptics have to do with this?

I'm talking about the actual debunk article not the spin in the thread!

Did you read Joe Quinns article linked in the OP or what?

That coupled with the information we have presented such as all of the anamolies with the hijackers clearly shows that we cannot ignore the pentagon.

It did not and could not have happened the way you were you were told.

Nobody was trying to fool anybody with double profiles.

It was done out of necessity. skeptic overlord even announced it mercs return.


But I must say you sure know a lot about ATS for only having 29 ATS points!



[edit on 6-3-2006 by Jack Tripper]

I would say since Merc_the_Perp or Mr. Narc (whichever you are today) or Lyte Trizzle...I mean Jack Tripper have both said all the witnesses are suspect and therefore their statements are tossed out.

If so, then all your so called experts (who were not even there) fall under the same blanket and we can toss out the propaganda they are trying to spread, right?

Just curious.


I love all the postings though, a link here or a photo there. Great stuff. Did you guys ever come up with anything other than pure speculation yet?


Oh, BTW...the moon is made of cheese. I have photos and expert statements. There are witnesses who have been there, but they are not valid and don't know anything about cheese. Can't prove me wrong.