Israel needs the Unites States support in starving people ?

Riwka...I stand by my point

There is little difference between the way the Nazis treated the Jewish population..ghettos/restrictions/sanctions etc, and the way the Israeli state is treating the Palestinians....what next? Yellow crescent badges for the Palestinians to wear on their lapels? Perhaps they should do so willingly and shamefully remind their oppressors of their own recent tragic history

[edit on 21-2-2006 by timski]

Has it occur to anybody here that over there in the Israeli-Palestinian conflict that the main issue over there is MISUNDERSTANDING?

That piece of land that is now called Israel has a special place in the Jewish religion as said in the teachings of the Torah. It is promised as their Holy Land and their "Promised Land"--(whatever the hell that means). Moreover, contrary to the popular belief that Palestine or should I say the Arabs own that place is actually science fiction made real.

The reason is that a Jewish Kingdom have been there since 1200BC and it survived for up to a millenium until they were thrashed out of their land by the Romans. By then most of the Jewish we're scattered throughout the Middle East area because of the expulsion by the Romans. Later, the Arabs conquered the area for a very, very long time and because of this Palestinians believe that it's their homeland.

Sad to say that it is both Jewish and Palestinians homeland because both groups have their historical and religious roots on that piece of land. However, with the help of the Brits and the Americans, the Jews managed to win that land and set up a Jewish state there much to the dismay of the Arabs.

What I'm trying to say here is that some way or another, they should live together. Peacefully and with total tolerance. But now it seems Palestinians won't accept Israel and Israel will destroy anyone that seeks to take that land away from them. It's a mess there and the world is watching.

Personally, I can't see any peace going on there. Mass number of uneducated Palestinian youths who grew up with "destroy-Israel" mentality, terrorism and recently--Hamas political control. Israel retaliating and killing Palestinians the same merciless way the Palestinian terrorists did on the Israeli citizens. The cycle keeps turning and it will never stop until one of them is eliminated. Hopefully, this'll never happen.

They need EDUCATION not a peaceful solution. With education comes understanding and with understanding comes peace.

Originally posted by Thomas Crowne
We've been in that hole for quite some time. So has the rest of the Western World; itsthe price for "advanced' "civilization".

We have crap in our bodies that doesn't even come CLOSE to supposed to being there; this is nothing new at all.

.

You know what the difference in YOU and 'them' is?
They are alive and MOVING in their hole, something that you don't see the American people doing.

And you see what happens to people who don't want the ELITE to dump more crap on top of their bodies don't you!

T.C., you still haven't answered my questions.
How many dead bodies is HAMAS responsible for?

Let's do some math, what gives the Unites States justification to support Israel in starving these people? And try to remember who is going to starve to death first, the children!

If you do the numbers, it might be a FACT that they are the most 'peacefull' group of people after all.

THAT IS the topic of this thread.

Sub, what are you trying to get at, that the 60 bombing victims represent a small fraction of the number of Arab "Palestinians" living as they are?
I have mentioned many times why these people should look to others for their aide, especially to Syria, yet it is the Israelis, the ones who they turned against when the Arab world decided to attack to destroy in 1948, who is expected to give up their existence.
Yes, this is what the Islamic Resistance Movement wants to do, it is in their charter, the destruction of Israel and the making of the land into another piece of Arab territory.

Whether the number of Israeli women and children who were intentionally targetted and blown to bits is 200 or 2,000, the fact that Hamas has a purpose, and the purpose is to destroy Israel, is enough reason to NOT support the PA under its control.
The fact that the majority of the Arab "Palestinians" support suicide bombings might indicate that the Hamas reflects their opinion and belief, and is not simply a response to a corrupt Fatah, as the West has been led to believe. This gives even more reason for Israel and the U.S., as well as other nations to NOT support them.
It is time that the rest of the Arab world takes responsibility for the mess they made, stop using these people as political and military tools and takes them in as they should have done many years ago, rather than refusing them entry and citizenship.

Originally posted by Thomas Crowne
Sub, what are you trying to get at, that the 60 bombing victims represent a small fraction of the number of Arab "Palestinians" living as they are?
I have mentioned many times why these people should look to others for their aide, especially to Syria, yet it is the Israelis, the ones who they turned against when the Arab world decided to attack to destroy in 1948, who is expected to give up their existence.
Yes, this is what the Islamic Resistance Movement wants to do, it is in their charter, the destruction of Israel and the making of the land into another piece of Arab territory.

Whether the number of Israeli women and children who were intentionally targetted and blown to bits is 200 or 2,000, the fact that Hamas has a purpose, and the purpose is to destroy Israel, is enough reason to NOT support the PA under its control.
The fact that the majority of the Arab "Palestinians" support suicide bombings might indicate that the Hamas reflects their opinion and belief, and is not simply a response to a corrupt Fatah, as the West has been led to believe. This gives even more reason for Israel and the U.S., as well as other nations to NOT support them.
It is time that the rest of the Arab world takes responsibility for the mess they made, stop using these people as political and military tools and takes them in as they should have done many years ago, rather than refusing them entry and citizenship.

What if you took only into consideration what is happening to US, here in this country today.
You see, it is not only my goal to drive the ELITE out of control, deep down inside I would like to see all of the people responsible for killing millions of Americans DEAD. They have not only allowed the GENE GIANTS to conduct experiments on all of US, the white-house is saturated with the same drug dealers that worked for the primary 'industry' that is treating the American people like LAB-RATS.

If you read your post, and somehow had to express yourself without using the 'titles' that have been given to these people to properly describe them, who would you support?
The people who are fighting to stop the ELITE from treating them like LAB-RATS, or the people who support treating human beings like experimental subjects? Eventho' you describe different groups of people by calling them different names, they are ALL people!

So, maybe HAMAS does have a 'worthy' purpose, especially when you consider that 'their' enemy, is also OURS.
The spirit of the 'Elite' is the same as the spirit of ISRAEL, if you look at what is happening to US, and compare it to what is happening to 'THEM'...
maybe you will see some resemblance.
For some reason this Nation of people are not 'crying foul' !
When they certainly should be !

You can consider me as a Muslim, a terrorist, a murderer, or the best kind of 'monster' this government could describe. But I FIRMLY believe that those responsible for treating me and my family like GUINEA PIGS,
DESERVE TO DIE !

No Syrians,
No Islamics,
No Palestenians,
No Americans,
No Fatah,
No Hamas,
No Men,
No Women,
No Children,
Should be experimented on.

If the people who orchestrated the events of 9/11 were knowledgable enough to pull that off, do you think they don't realize what is happening to Americans?
Don't you see that the people our 'representatives' have chosen to assist Israel in murdering, are trying to stop and destroy those who are destroying US, through science, by infecting our food supply?

If you think a victory for Israel is a victory for 'US', you are sadly mistaken.

Those 60 bombings should be so insignificant to the American people, considering the amount of critical issues we have here in this country to address... in all actuality, it is none of our business.

Why are we trying to solve, or just stick our nose in a religious war that has been going on for thousands of years? It's a smoke screen to keep the American people from focusing on what is happening to them.

Right or wrong?

Be careful about telling me what to watch and not watch, Sub, your religion is the newcomer, not mine.
You might also realize that I said nothing about the U.S. benefitting, nor has anyone said this. This makes no sense and I have no idea what med you forgot that caused that sentence to be typed.

Are you thinking you are posting in conspiracies in medicine? What are you talking about in the rest of that convoluted ramble?

Better yet, do not respond. It is WAY far off track of this thread. We have been discussing this, so I do not want to help lead you astray.

The topic is about Israel and U.S. not supporting the Islamic Resistance Movement.

Let's get to our huddles, regroup and then come back.

Originally posted by Thomas Crowne
Let's get to our huddles, regroup and then come back.

Ok, when we come back can you change out of your Puppetmaster costume?
Please !

Some of the money that the US sends to Israel is used by Israel to terrorize the Palestinian population, so what's the diff.

Terrorists on both sides, now it appears Palestine's is also state-sponsored.

But Israel won't let them achieve any real regional political power. There will be a manufactured "incident" to help them move back in and "fix things".

Palestine is far from being free, and Israel won't let them get freer.

It's history.

Originally posted by Amuk
where is Hamas going to get the funds to payoff the sucide bombers families now? How are they going to be able to fund there war againsst Isreal now?

never mind the funding of terror, these guys got elected to positions previously filled by corrupt thieves and now they've had the cash flow cut off. how are they going to get theirswimming pools and central air conditioining units like the old administation stole?

poor poor hamas.

It is time that the rest of the Arab world takes responsibility for the mess they made, stop using these people as political and military tools and takes them in as they should have done many years ago, rather than refusing them entry and citizenship.

The reason why they have not allowed them to move in is because they are not going to support the Ethnic Cleansing of more than Four Million People.

Is this what you are calling for?

Before Israel invaded in a sneak attack back in 1967 they were NOT under Israeli military occupation.

And you think they should abandon their homes, and their land in mass because.....what was the reason for the ethnic cleansing again?

Wouldn't it be simpler to make them all Israeli citizens, or to withdraw behind pre-war borders?

People need to offer solutions that don't sound like the final solution.

Originally posted by ArchAngel

Before Israel invaded in a sneak attack back in 1967

This is wrong and has already been explained to you many times.

Once again, there are those in the Arab world who seek to rewrite history and impute expansionist motives to Israel, but the facts are clear.

Click on the image to get a quick summary of some of the major events leading up to the Six-Day War:

On May 16, 1967, Cairo Radio announced: "The existence of Israel has continued too long. The battle has come in which we shall destroy Israel." On the same day, Egypt demanded the withdrawal of UN forces that had been stationed in Gaza and Sharm el-Sheikh since 1957. Three days later, the UN announced it would comply with the Egyptian demand.

On May 19, 1967 Cairo Radio said: "This is our chance, Arabs, to deal Israel a mortal blow of annihilation..."

On May 23, 1967 Egypt's President Gamal Abdel Nasser declared his intention to block the Strait of Tiran to Israeli shipping, thus effectively severing Israel's vital trade links with East Africa and Asia. Israel replied that under international law this was a casus belli, an act of war.

On May 27,1967 Nasser said that "our basic objective will be the destruction of Israel."

On May 30,1967 Jordan's King Hussein placed Jordanian forces under Egyptian control. Egyptian, Iraqi, and Saudi troops were sent to Jordan.

On June 1, 1967 Iraq's leader added his thoughts: "We are resolved, determined, and united to achieve our clear aim of wiping Israel off the map."

On June 3, 1967 Cairo Radio hailed the impending Muslim holy war.

On June 5, Israel, surrounded by Arab forces likely to attack at any moment, launched a preemptive strike.

Originally posted by ArchAngel

Wouldn't it be simpler to make them all Israeli citizens

No, that would not be simpler. Furthermore, nobody wants such a solution.

The Palestinians living in the GazaStrip &WestBank belong to the Palestinian Authority want to build an own state.

The Jewish State of Israel does not want the Palestinians living in the GazaStrip & Westbank to be citizens of Israel.


Since the people who live there, do not want such an solution, your suggestion is useless.

Originally posted by ArchAngel

or to withdraw behind pre-war borders?

which borders? The 1967 Green Line has never been a border.

• In fact , the 1967 Green line is the 1949 Armistice lines established between Israel and its opponents (Lebanon, Syria, Jordan, and Egypt) at the end of the 1948 Arab-Israeli War.
  
  
• The territorial result was in reagrd of the hills historically called Judea and Samaria:
  
  
  
• Jordan retained control of the hill country
  historically known as Judea and Samaria until 1950.
  
  
  
• In 1950 Jordan annexed Judea and Samaria
  
  
• This territory was renamed the "WestBank".
  
  
• 1958: All members of the Brotherhood of the Holy Sepulchre had to adopt Jordanian citizenship
  
  
• 1965: Christian institutions were forbidden to acquire any land or rights in or near Jerusalem.
  
  
• 1966: Christian schools were compelled to close on Fridays instead of Sundays.
  
  
  [edit on 26-2-2006 by Riwka]

Timski, Archangel,
You seem to be making a very big effort to corrolate between Israel defensive measures to Nazi policy.

Firstly, I do not recall Jews in pre-war Germany bombing school buses, cafes, restaurants or churches like the Palestinians are doing. Jews in pre-war Germany were killed-off systematically because they were Jewish.
Jews did not have a self-ruling government which de-faco declared war on Germany. The Palestinian leadership signed off agreements with Israel and reneged nearly all those agreements. There is a huge list of non-compliances the Palestinians are guilty off which on its own should negate the agreements signed between the two entities. With that said, Isael continues to recognize the Palestinian Authority and provide it (its citizens) with water, electricity, jobs and humanitarian aid.

As a result of a terror campaign that was initiated by Yassir Arafat, Marwan Barguti and the other PLO terror chiefs (which HAMAS and Jihad enthusiastically joined) Israel was forced into defensive policies that are viewed by those biased in the conflict or unknowlegable to raise high hell.
Of course the Palestinians aand Arab leadership uses Nazi analogies to add insult to injury - Ironically most of the same people who use these analogies also claim the Holocaust never happened.

What this conflict has made people realize is that a separation is necessary. This separation needs to be done for the sake of both people and cultures.

In order to have peace you need for each side to be separated and under control of their own respective gov'ts. The only issue left is borders. Those of you who claim that Israel needs to withdraw to the pre-1967 borders need to rethink their strategies for the sake of peace. What is obvious from the conflict is that the Arabs cannot tolerate a Jewish presence in what they perceive as Islamic lands. As a result they will never stop the hostilities (moreover Egypt and has never really stopped supporting Israel's enemies even after they signed peace with Israel). In addition, current Arab regimes are far from stable. The Muslim brotherhood can quiickly destabilize Egypt (or through elections) and form a radical Shaaria state and Jordan is under threat of being toppled (it is also a minority government).
As a result, Israel's border's must be borders in which Israel can defend itself. This includes the Jordan Valley, the Golan Heights and part of the current West Bank close to Israeli cities. Historical sites must also be addressed. Jews have 1 area which is the most sacred site - that is the temple mount in the old city of Jerusalem. Although this is the area of the 3rd most sacred location in Islam (under dispute since Jerusalem is not outrightly stated in the Quran) it is still the holiest of holy for Jews. This location must stay under Israeli hands as well as some of the other locations (Cave of the Patriarch's in Hebron and Rachel's tomb by Bethlehem) with arrangements of free access to other locations (e.g. Josephs tomb in Nabalus).
The separation policy would require the removal of Jews from defined 'Palestinian areas' and removal of Palestinians from defined 'Israeli areas'. I am also for giving Palestinians land from Israel which include a 'hostile' Arab population such as some areas of east Jeruslaem and Um-el-Fahem.
Such policies have already been implemented in the past between Greece and Turkey.

Current separation policies (and those I proposed above) are far from Nazi policies since it does not include the extermination of any population (what I propose is only a reciprocal removal of populations from certain areas) like the Nazis did. These policies are necessary to reduce friction and the loss of life.
Of course the Palestinians cannot tolerate the low level of violence and therefore developed the Qassem missle to kill more innocent civilains. Remeber when the Jews did the same in pre-WWII Germany?

Maybe this will help this thread get back on topic.

Contraty to what the moderator who kept interrupting this thread believes is the 'topic', or what should or should not be discussed....
this thread is about our government assisting Israel in their effort to STARVE CHILDREN to prove their point.

This has nothing to do with anything that happened in 1967, CLEARLY the topic of this thread is about PEOPLE,
a term some of you obviously have a problem using to describe the innocent victims of this war.

This was understood by the USG in 2002.

Israel starving Palestinian children

The Israeli occupation is deliberately inflicting mass hunger on the Palestinian population of the West Bank and Gaza as a form of collective punishment. The surprising source for this information is a branch of the U.S. government, the United States Agency for International Development (USAID). Collective punishment is a violation of international law.

USAID has just released a report documenting how U.S.-supported-and-financed Israeli actions in the West Bank and Gaza have produced some of the highest rates of malnutrition in the world among Palestinian children and women of childbearing age. The report can be found online at www.usaid.gov/wbg/reports/Nutritional_Assessment.pdf.

Justify this!

Originally posted by Submersible

This was understood by the USG in 2002.

Israel starving Palestinian children

The Israeli occupation is deliberately inflicting mass hunger on the Palestinian population of the West Bank and Gaza as a form of collective punishment. The surprising source for this information is a branch of the U.S. government, the United States Agency for International Development (USAID). Collective punishment is a violation of international law.

USAID has just released a report documenting how U.S.-supported-and-financed Israeli actions in the West Bank and Gaza have produced some of the highest rates of malnutrition in the world among Palestinian children and women of childbearing age. The report can be found online at www.usaid.gov/wbg/reports/Nutritional_Assessment.pdf.

Justify this!

THere is a problem with this report that:
1- You link is not valid. It leeds to a page not found error.
2- I vaguely remember something like that reported here in Israel (I do not watch TV run NEWS since it is politically biased to the LEFT). They spoke about a study that shows that Palestinian children are malnurished. This is not only a result of Israeli policy but one of Palestinian policy as well. I do not know why Israel-bashers love blaming Israel on everything that happens. It is Palestinian aggression and inaction against agressors that forces Israel to defend itself. If such a report was issued when the Palestinians were not in a constant terror spree then I would agree. But since Israel is under an intensive terror campaign then these actions are necessary. Palestinians need to go to Jobs in the PA or in Israel for work. Israel cannot allow workers into Israel when it is under a terrorism campaign. Moreover, at wartime an economy like that of the Palestinians cannot last very long. It was the Palestinians who chose the warpath rather than negotiations therefore it is their policies that are to blame.
3- USAid is an organization with historical ties with the CIA - Some trivia.
4- I think the article took some liberties in the interpretation of the report - as many politically affiliated news agencies do.

When I click on the links they work, but here they are again so you can copy/paste if you are still having trouble.

www.telegraph.co.uk.../news/2002/08/06/wpal06.xml&sSheet=/news/2002/08/06/ixnewstop.html

www.workers.org...

How would anybody not expect to be on the wrong side of a 'terror' campaign when they have been intentionally starving these people to death for years?
HOW MANY DEATHS has the Israeli people suffered because of the "radical Islamic" people ?
HOW MANY DEATHS has the American people suffered because of the "radical Islamic" people?

Look at the 'enemy' force these people are fighting against.
The people the United States is helping Israel try to destroy does not even have a 'military'.
They are not only fighting against their "spiritual" mortal enemy which is also an established 'government'. , but also against this world's military superpower, 'tooth and nail' for what they believe in.

i will state for the record that this is not just propaganda, i've heard first hand accounts of it, and seen pictures...

it's very sad, and yes, israel needs the US to support them because without western support they'd be dead

When I said the link does not work I was refering to the usaid website which was referenced. I wanted to read the actual link and not an interpretation of it.

Regarding other points. Israel does not want to destroy the Palestinians. Israel wants to stop the terror. This cannot be done while Israel allows Palestinians into Israeli territory for jobs. This cannot be done without roadblocks and separation walls. When these provisions are in place terrorism, as expected, are reduced. The consequence is unemployment.
If Palestinians want employment they can do so by stopping their aggressive endevours and accept Israel as a reality since it is a reality. The quiet that comes with ceasing hostilities will promote business, tourism and foreign investment.

Regarding other points. Israel does not want to destroy the Palestinians.

That is simply untrue.

Israel wants to drive the Palestinians into the Dead Sea.

More Israeli Jews favor transfer of Palestinians, Israeli Arabs - poll finds

Transfer is a nicey-nice word for the Wholesale Ethnic Cleansing of more than four million people.

Originally posted by ArchAngel

Regarding other points. Israel does not want to destroy the Palestinians.

That is simply untrue.

Israel wants to drive the Palestinians into the Dead Sea.

More Israeli Jews favor transfer of Palestinians, Israeli Arabs - poll finds

Transfer is a nicey-nice word for the Wholesale Ethnic Cleansing of more than four million people.

You are basing your claim that Israel wants to destroy Palestinians by quoting a poll relating to transfer of populations? Correction - there aren't 4 million Arabs in the West bank. And the transfer was not into the dead sea. Nice try though.

OK I'll be honest - I want to transfer Palestinians out of their land true. With that said I;ll explain myself. I think the conflict between the two people has lasted long enough. Something needs to be done. Palestinians and Israelis cannot live together. In order to rectify the situation some mass populace movements are required. Using Sharon's unilateral disengagement model (which includes compensation) I propose the following:

Based on security issues and needs, and viability of a state borders Israel, the US and European Union need to decide on the borders (why not the Palestinians? because they won't agree to anything but all of Israel and Palestine for the Palestinians). I see it as Gaza and parts of the West bank without the old city of Jerusalem and large Jewish setllements, without the Jewish portion of Hebron, wishout Kualquilya and Tul Karem and without the Jordan Valley. This area will be defined as Palestine. Move all Jews out of these regions. Move Palestinians out of Kalquilia and Tul Karem, Israel gives Palestinians Um El Fahem (Israeli) and Arab East Jerusalem (Israeli) with all its residents and presto two separate countries with security and viability. Impose right to return only to Palestinian lands. Security wise the Palestinians are only allowed a police force. With these restrictions let them travel as they wish and give them control of their borders. All Palestinians will have right to visit Al-Aksa under Israeli rule.

The above does not mean I want to destroy Palestine. I want to create a Palestine. Problem is that not all Palestinians would agree with me. THen again even if all of the 1967 westbank and Gaza would be handed over I doubt that would be enough too. That is why I do not take the Palestinians 'Peace' efforts seriously.

Ok, and when I asked the dozen or so questions that have gone unanswered in this thread I was talking to the wall.

In addition, we also have many reports of American soldiers sabotaging main water stations. Take for example, the main water station in al-Karkh outside of Baghdad, eyewitnesses testify that there was a huge explosion just minutes after US soldiers left the site. Why does the world not raise concern over these accounts? Is it because they are being offered by Iraqis? It is time that the international community started to listen to Iraqis and not the lies of an occupying power that has never been shown to tell the truth.