Doubts cast on Airbus '05 order tally

Chinese airlines behind a $10 billion plane deal that powered Airbus past Boeing Co. in 2005 orders told Reuters they have not paid deposits, as would normally be required to count a deal as a firm order.

China airlines cast doubt on Airbus '05 order tally



somebodies cheating

Maybe they did, I wouldn't know. Ultimately it only makes a difference if the sale never goes through. After all, it isn't a football match where Airbus have scored in the 90th minute but Boeing are appealing for offside is it. Even though that is how it comes across.

CEO's of european firms have lately been known to inflate prospects. similar to Shell back in 2004 when they had been misleading share holders about their reserves. This sounds like a similar situation

Originally posted by bigx01
CEO's of european firms have lately been known to inflate prospects. similar to Shell back in 2004 when they had been misleading share holders about their reserves. This sounds like a similar situation

Can you please cite relevant examples to educate us of this apparent European trait?

Yeah, us Europeans are such tinkers, lol.

Originally posted by bigx01

somebodies cheating

Someones trying to start a "US is better than Europe thread".

CEO's of european firms have lately been known to inflate prospects. similar to Shell back in 2004 when they had been misleading share holders about their reserves. This sounds like a similar situation

Please provide links, and try to be impartial and see if you can find any US companies that maybe guilty of the same.....

[edit on 17-2-2006 by Koka]

Originally posted by planeman
Can you please cite relevant examples to educate us of this apparent European trait?

I just did. Shell which is headquartered in The Hauge , in January 2004, had been for several years misrepresenting their known reserves by inflating the numbers. when internal documents surfaced of this facade, they copped to the truth and were fined several million dollars and the CEO at the time resigned. Helps keep stock prices up when you inflate numbers. When all of this happened the stock took quite a hit and the investors were not happy at all.

The stock still lags the other oil stocks because of this recent tainting.

So, because Shell did it other European companies must as well?

That must mean that all US corporations are corrupt like Boeing, no

Originally posted by Koka


Someones trying to start a "US is better than Europe thread".

no ones starting a "us is better than europe thread"

but companies have been known to inflate numbers just for the bennifit of stock prices.

Originally posted by bigx01

Originally posted by Koka


Someones trying to start a "US is better than Europe thread".

no ones starting a "us is better than europe thread"

but companies have been known to inflate numbers just for the bennifit of stock prices.

Sorry, I thought you said European CEO's my bad......

Originally posted by waynos
So, because Shell did it other European companies must as well?

That must mean that all US corporations are corrupt like Boeing, no

every big company should be suspect of numbers. that's why it's now law that CEO's sign their year end reports with criminal implications if they have been falsified. this is a direct result of Enron.

as to Shell let's just say that I have first hand knowledge of the misdeed and the training on ethics that resulted from it

Originally posted by Koka


Sorry, I thought you said European CEO's my bad......

I did say European CEO's and I gave a recent as 2004 example also

Laws have changed in the USA to make CEO's here more responsible to misrepresentations of numbers. Not that it wont happen again.

I'm not disputing the Shell case, its the way you took the brush with tar on it and painted it across the 'CEO's of European comapnies' and in particular reference to Airbus (as this is why the thread is here). You can surely see that this is a broad and unwarranted generalistation, hence my own flippant reference to Boeing to illustrate the point. (Incidentally, I know its not 'Boeing' per se that is corrupt, it was just an illustration).

If you had said 'CEO'S of certain large corporations' or even just referred to Shell, then there's no argument, you specifically used it as an illustration of 'pesky Europeans'. Thats the bug bear.

Originally posted by bigx01
every big company should be suspect of numbers. that's why it's now law that CEO's sign their year end reports with criminal implications if they have been falsified. this is a direct result of Enron.

Wow, they created a law, that should put a stop to it.

Is murder a crime in the US, cos' i'm pretty sure that still happens?

You are being bias and I'm being sarcastic, would you like to start the thread again, only this time without the bias and sweeping generalisations?

[edit on 17-2-2006 by Koka]

there is a law - Sarbanes Oxhey - and like you say murder still happens. Interesting that the Europeans are cited in this post - i still remmeber BCCI and Enron as the first to personally touch me. But we cannot forget Mirror Group and Barings - so maybe some sort of order of account is long overdue.

Originally posted by Koka


Wow, they created a law, that should put a stop to it.

Is murder a crime in the US, cos' i'm pretty sure that still happens?


[edit on 17-2-2006 by Koka]

you forgot this quote also

Originally posted by bigx01

Laws have changed in the USA to make CEO's here more responsible to misrepresentations of numbers. Not that it wont happen again.

and the rest of the one you only took a small part of

Originally posted by bigx01

as to Shell let's just say that I have first hand knowledge of the misdeed and the training on ethics that resulted from it

Originally posted by KokaYou are being bias and I'm being sarcastic, would you like to start the thread again, only this time without the bias and sweeping generalisations?

I work for a European based company, so to say I'm biased is a bit off


[edit on 17-2-2006 by bigx01]

[edit on 17-2-2006 by bigx01]

Originally posted by bigx01
I work for a European based company, so to say I'm biased is a bit off

You definitely have a bee in your bonnet about Airbus being successful, you cannot deny that, you're presently posting on two Anti-Airbus threads.

I'm not sure how working for a European based company would make you any less subjective.

Originally posted by Koka

Originally posted by bigx01
I work for a European based company, so to say I'm biased is a bit off

You definitely have a bee in your bonnet about Airbus being successful, you cannot deny that, you're presently posting on two Anti-Airbus threads.

I'm not sure how working for a European based company would make you any less subjective.

its about ethics and if the stock stayed the same or went up because of what they said then there should be repercussions for misleading investors. If it had been Boeing, you sound as though I would look the other way, but I would have posted the same message. I have no favorites about companies when it comes to misleading investors.

Had I not sold my Shell stock to buy a different one, I would have lost quite a bit of money and no I did not know of the brewing scandel, then sell before it was made public. I hit my strike price and sold. I got lucky thats all

[edit on 17-2-2006 by bigx01]

In my view, being a CEO is an indication of little or no ethics which ever country the company hails from.

Personally I could careless if Airbus bombs, I would prefer a far less environmentally damaging form of transport.

I do care about generalisations and threads which are a blatantly US v Europe.

Originally posted by Koka
In my view, being a CEO is an indication of little or no ethics which ever country the company hails from.

Personally I could careless if Airbus bombs, I would prefer a far less environmentally damaging form of transport.

I do care about generalisations and threads which are a blatantly US v Europe.

once again you missed this quote

Originally posted by bigx01

ts about ethics and if the stock stayed the same or went up because of what they said then there should be repercussions for misleading investors. If it had been Boeing, you sound as though I would look the other way, but I would have posted the same message. I have no favorites about companies when it comes to misleading investors.

I have no favorite country when it comes to each others companies misleading investors. If I own stock in a company they are fair game when they mislead. If they happen to be headquartered in the USA or Europe then so be it. But companies where ever they are located are fair game when it comes to duping investors. especially if it can affect the stock I own ( i don't own boeing its to high for my taste)