The anti-Islam Conspiracy?!?

It really is incredible how Americans think their country is the only one not "Third World" and that the entire world must revolve around it and how it is the center of modern thinking and progress in all fields. It is completely ludicrous to read the misinformed ramblings of an undereducated, over confident, anti-Islam fanatic. First of all, TERRORISTS ARE NOT, I REPEAT NOT MUSLIMS HOWEVER MUCH THEY CLAIM TO BE. Terrorism goes against all the principles and fundamentals of our religion. NO RELIGION, if you think about it for a quarter of a second, promotes or encourages terrorism and violence. Islam is not a religion of violence. Religion is a lifestyle set by God for the benefit of all people, ALL being the key word here. Islam is very tolerant and i must stress that there is NO, ABSOLUELY NO correct English interpretation of the Holy Qura'an. This is because there cannot be a direct translation. the Qura'an is the miracle of our religion. It is not only a book, but it is a collection of divine words for every time and place and many, many secrets are hidden within its heavily mis-interpreted pages. You cannot judge an entire religion by a group of fanatical, brainwashed idiots who have been tought to think that blowing themselves up (while suicide is forbidden in Islam) will bring them 72 virgins in heaven and killing innocent people will secure you a palace over there. They have been brought up in this hidious mentality. They absolutely DO NOT understand their religion and refuse to acknowledge the pure, simple and true, that God has set Islam for the good of the people and that religion is in interaction and that God does not need our worship but everything He has set for us is to improve our lives here on Earth in more ways than we know. Our so-called religious leaders and Imams preach wrongly. They have made our religion seem stupid, primitive and materialistic while the most opposite of that is true. I beg you not to see Saudi Arabia as an example of Islam, they are NOT following the teachings of Islam, which says to be tolerant, accepting, free and good. They are none of these. They are one of the world's top human rights violators, their treatment of women is sub-human, the "Islamic teachings" they have in their schools are a load of CRAP, i'll tell you that. the entire islamic world has been brainwashed into what we see today. It has all been done to benifit those on top. Everything has been ruined, thousands, among thousands of hadiths were made up over time. The Islamic nations are not supposed to be governed by Kings or Amirs, for the only tolerated politics in Islam are completely democratic. The Arab and "Muslim" world are a terrible example of Islam and i am ashamed of how we have become. Stop attacking us and learn more about religion before you speak. And how DARE you say those terrible things about the Prophet!! It is completely unacceptable. How would you react if somebody completely insulted one of the most revered figures of your faith, huh? Well, it only goes to prove the utter vulgarity of Americans with over-inflated heads. I suggest that you fill them with knowledge as opposed to air next time before you go on to so publicly humiliate yourselves.

THen you are not following the true teachings of your prophet. It was a spilt between Sunni/Shia that caused the initial rift in the religion, since there were hardliners and there were those who did not agree with all the teachings.

I am not labeling all Arabs as terrorists, but from what I have read of the Moslem religion, there is no room for tolerance. Islam means 'submission" and MOslem means "those who submit", so where is the 'happiness' this relgion brings.

It was designed as the perfect relgion in the eyes of Mohammed, a mix of Christianity and Judaism, and was used to take away the idols that were worshipped at the time by Arabs.

The Jews of Medina, where he moved his religion, would not convert. Thus began the first jihad, a concept used before the Christian crusades.

I take it you are a Sunni, since you believe in supplementing the Koran with traditions?

We in America are not ignorant, we are vigilant, and will never allow Islam to control outr shores. The religion can atmtept to regain it's staurue in Europe that it had in 700AD and continue a Holy war the US has nothing to do with.

Originally posted by 1119
First of all, TERRORISTS ARE NOT, I REPEAT NOT MUSLIMS HOWEVER MUCH THEY CLAIM TO BE. Well, it only goes to prove the utter vulgarity of Americans with over-inflated heads. I suggest that you fill them with knowledge as opposed to air next time before you go on to so publicly humiliate yourselves.

I have a question for you. What takes precidence the Surahs or the Hadith? If there is a contradiction in Quran what is the means to resolve the contradiction? I have read that if an earlier Surah says to be nice and a later Surah or a Hadith says to be mean then the later is a "more inspired" revelation. Not busting your speedbag just want to know.

I'm no expert, but I'd say Surah goes first because it's from the Qur'an, then Hadith as long as it doesn't conflict with the Qur'an, then fatwas, as long as it doesn't contradict with the Qur'an and Hadith.

If the Surahs are taken within the context it is presented there should not be any contradictions. But like I said, I'm no expert. I think fellow ATSer babloyi would be a better person to answer your queries.

Guess you gotta wait until he/she comes back online. I'm sorry I couldn't give you an absolute answer.

Again Deep Blue, you are wrong. Most of the verses you gave me I can tell you right at the top of my head refer to the practice of taking widows as wives after a war (a habit of the time- how much more humane than letting women die alone with their children in the aftermath). The verses you gave me on "slavery" refer to the treatment of captives and servants, not slaves. Also I asked for verses which didn't refer to the Canaanite Midianite conflict because the web is overflowing with apologetics on the issue which can explain to you why the commandment given to Saul and later David was so Harsh.

I know of the issue of "progressive Revelation" in Islam, but guess what- all the later verses are the most intolerant horrid ones. Also if you can't take the Qu'ran for what it says, nor the Hadiths, then WHAT precisely can be held as the theology of Islam- your word ? Also don't give me that crap of the Quran not being translated correctly from Arabic to other languages, I know Muslims who converted to Christianity and they say that the Arabic version is perfectly well rendered into English and other languages, this "untranslatable Quran" idea was generated for two reasons:

1) So Muslims who memorized it in Arabic and then saw it in their own language wouldn't be horrified over Muhammed's actual legacy, and just take their Imam's words at face value.

2) So non-Muslims wouldn't be able to debate Muslims on their theology which is self-evidently intolerant, evil, and full of prejudice to those outside Islam (the vast majority).

Also 1119 why suddenly "Americans" are automatically the foes of Islam? What if I told you I'm half latinamerican (mother from Brazil) and that throughout my trips to the region I never met a single person who would favour Islamic theology as presented by the Imams, that I in fact never met a single Muslim in the region? Are we suddenly all "infidels" as well? There are 4.5-5 billion people who don't follow Islam.

[edit on 21-2-2006 by Nakash]

Nakash

I am not wrong, I am open minded and not brainwashed like many masses.
Actually I am right and you are wrong , I win and you lose because I only accept truth while you feel more comfortable with lies.
Lies usually make life easier on people like you. You just what to make it easy on your brain by seeing the world in two colors : Black and white. It is easier to people like you to put Muslims in Evil Camp and USA in the Good Camp, rather than understanding politics , history and complicated conspiracies. It is easier for you to join the “Fight Evil Muslims” Circus rather that studying the real Evil done by USA and Israel.

Nakash, You attack Islam so passionately and so blindly. People how blindly attack something usually fear that thing. May be you feel insecure about your Faith and fear the possibility of Islam being right. do you?

I just will quote my self to describe People who blindly attack Islam :

Deep_Blue
People who blindly attack Islam usually have double standards and triple standards. They usually put Muslims under a microscope while ignoring the mascaras that have been done by Israel and USA in the Middle East. Such people have symptoms like :
- Selective memory
- Lack of logical Judgment
- Infinite Bias.

Originally posted by Nakash
Again Deep Blue, you are wrong. Most of the verses you gave me I can tell you right at the top of my head refer to the practice of taking widows as wives after a war (a habit of the time- how much more humane than letting women die alone with their children in the aftermath). The verses you gave me on "slavery" refer to the treatment of captives and servants, not slaves. Also I asked for verses which didn't refer to the Canaanite Midianite conflict because the web is overflowing with apologetics on the issue which can explain to you why the commandment given to Saul and later David was so Harsh.

Nice try Nakash .. verses in the previous page are very clear …. Your explanations are very weak and …. But nice try.

Originally posted by Nakash
Also don't give me that crap of the Quran not being translated correctly from Arabic to other languages

Again ignorance. How in earth you talk about complicated language like Arabic while you know nothing about it. Arabic Quran can never be translated accurately in English this is TRIVIAL FACT , LIKE : Aramaic Bible can never be translated accurately into English. Quran have poetry nature and is not easily understood even by native Arabic speakers themselves (Arabic poetry is very complicated and hard).
I am excellent in English , but when I read the English version of the Quran I find it hard to understand it, and I also don’t recognize some versus. do you know what I do when somebody here post a Quranic versus? I take the versus number and then I read it in the Arabic Quran to recognize which versus they are talking about !!





[edit on 21-2-2006 by Deep_Blue]

[edit on 21-2-2006 by Deep_Blue]

An ad hominem attack is the last device of a failed rhetorist. Sorry Blue, but you lose, I'm waiting for one unsound biblical doctrine- it's better to live a life based on absolutes than as cattle living solely to eat and sleep (which people like you do). I have a good understanding of Hebrew and can tell you it is 90% similar to Pharsee and other middle Eastern languages, to say that Arabic can't be rendered in English, Greek or some other language would be making an exception based on the same logic of "faith based" thinking you despise.

lastly, I attack Islam because it's core is immoral and vicious, and you better thank me for it, since I don't see you willing to embrace Sharia law or a Caliphate any time soon (and it's coming, trust me it is).


[edit on 21-2-2006 by Nakash]

Nakash, sorry, but Deep Blue proved that every religion has its moral uncertainties. Many parts of Islam were taken from Christianity and Judaism.

As well, you're name Nakash is Jewish I take it, as all I have seen are Jewish named Nakash. I smell bias and prejudice peeking through.

Nakash

Give up. My words are wiser and more powerful than yours. My thoughts are superior than yours. Your thoughts are clearly twisted and expired. I don't blame brainwashed people, but in your case you proved that the damage that Ideologies did on your brain is beyond repair.

Talking about cattle... people like you who are blindly ignorant and cannot see above their feet , are surely cattle that are being herded by their leaders. Go and Enjoy the grass and don't look up above your feet . Go and Enjoy ignorance.



[edit on 22-2-2006 by Deep_Blue]

[edit on 22-2-2006 by Deep_Blue]

eh, whatever. Thanks for the debate man, but I clearly can't change your mind when you already made up your decision beforehand. In case you didn't notice, I wasn't insulting you but alerting you that it would perhaps be...shall I say wiser, to give some thought to other spheres than the one we live in. It's truly frustrating to debate a nihilist who out of fear or ignorance doesn't wish to entertain the mere *thought* of a higher being and the consequences this would entail in their daily lives.

Glad to see the catfight is over. Now, I ask this question again. Does the media (television news specifically) intentionally report only the bad side of Islam for an agenda besides the norm of ratings? Do you think there is a malevolent power(s) directing a stage of events that will ultimately destabilize or undermine Islam to the benefit of someone else?


[edit on 22/2/06 by OneGodJesus]

Well, I sometimes ask myself if we really need a phantom conspiracy to answer for the behaviour of some muslims. Saudi Arabia is an economic superpower even if the News doesn't report it. The Gulf states own most of the World's gold, they would benefit tremendously from a complete collapse of the West, particularly the U.S. I see preparations for a Caliphate. Ive looked at most of these conspiracies and they just don't really own up. Sure there is frat boy idiocy in Bohemian Grove. Sure the Roschild dynasty did dishonest treasonous things in the past. Sure Bush is no role model. Yet lowering the world's population to 25% it's current size? A one world Goverment led by the puny weak UN? erm...doesn't look probable. Also I think the media'sa attention has been proportional to the violence, in Pakistan (or Nigeria, I have to check) pregnant women had their stomachs ripped over a cartoon. If that doesn't merit prime time I don't know what does. Jihad against KFC- doesn't that sound like good reason to have this in the news? It look's like wanton unneccesary aggresion and a picture of the mindset of some Muslims, we need to hear both sides of the coin.

[edit on 22-2-2006 by Nakash]

Originally posted by OneGodJesus
Glad to see the catfight is over. Now, I ask this question again. Does the media (television news specifically) intentionally report only the bad side of Islam for an agenda besides the norm of ratings? Do you think there is a malevolent power(s) directing a stage of events that will ultimately destabilize or undermine Islam to the benefit of someone else?


[edit on 22/2/06 by OneGodJesus]

what else can the news cover when theres nothing else to cover. now im shure that as a whole islam is not bad but there is this overly large sect that are extremely evil. there is no slant there is no other way of looking at it except plainly evil.

i must say though that most of our problems in the middle east are our governments doings. weve been double dealing them and using them as far back as the reagen administration (cant really speak of before then cuz i dont know) and its finally coming to a head.

www.breitbart.com...

WHAT??! You have got to be kidding. Now America is to blame for a bunch of
Sunnis blowing up a Mosque? I'm sure this drives a further wedge between Shiites and Sunnis which put's a hold to Mr.A's Mahdi world conquest plans, but this was no inside job.

we are all screwed this middle east situation is begining to get out of control real quick. i think its time for alittle shock n awe on iran. do you think if we drop a nuke on the middle east all the sand will be blown like all over europe or what? maybe during all the commotion we could invade china (you know we could use all the sand in the air for cover). then we can go in and force all the leaders out of power and then instatute our own people in power. then we can put a blockbuster and a mcdonalds on every street corner and a big mall in every city. this could finally put us in
perfect position to invade japan and finally destroy everything pokeman and uhgio...........we can all dream cant we.......but no really do you think a nuke would blow sand all over the surrounding regions ????? only one way to find out (sorry israel)......

Originally posted by OneGodJesus
I wonder if in fact the religion is as peaceful as it proclaims or is this just a conspiracy of the media. It is hard to ignore the news but when you get a few crazies speaking for the whole and get no Muslim reply of "that isn't right and we don't agree" from the community at large in a big public way, it makes you wonder.

The extremists of the Muslim world are making a very bad name for the Muslim community as a whole......remember the persecution of christians??

I can see this turning into a "lets get rid of all Muslims!" if things continue the way they are going...sooner or later the world as a whole will get fed up with the bombings and kidnappings and go after all Muslims to eradicate them (which I DO NOT AGREE WITH !)

but it will happen unless the Muslim community joins together and ferrets out the freaks and loonies that tarnish the Muslim Faith. IMO

islam is violent in areas where the west has intervened unilaterally. that's where the lion's share of terrorists come from. remember iran, that slightly leftist, democraticly elected government we toppled to reenstate the shah? the government that overthrew him hates us.

get my point?

Originally posted by madnessinmysoul
islam is violent in areas where the west has intervened unilaterally. that's where the lion's share of terrorists come from. remember iran, that slightly leftist, democraticly elected government we toppled to reenstate the shah? the government that overthrew him hates us.

get my point?

I used to beleive that myself but not any more.
The Shah was already in power before Mossadeq was elected into office.
The US and Britain helped to restore him to power after Mossadeq forced him out of office.
Iran did very well under the Shah and many Iranians had a good life.
My aunt used to live there with her family under the Shah.

There were some people who suffered as dissent was heavily cracked down on but it was no worse than what they have now under a theocracy.


Lets look at the rest of the muslim world now.
If they hate the west because of western interference then was was there so much violence from those muslim countries before the west ever intervened in those regions?

Your theory of why they hate us would only be valid if the hate started after the US and the Europeans had begun interfering.

[edit on 23-2-2006 by AceOfBase]

That's something which occured to me as well. Under the Shah Iran was prosperous, wealthy, and at peace with it's neighbors. Maybe a little crackdown on Jihadis here and there, but much better than under the Mullahs. Plus he was there before.