Gagged NASA scientist warns: Ice Caps 'Melting Fast'

Another thing i though about... (besides Helmutts very realistic possibility of a frozen virus being released...small pox is out there somewhere)

I wonder if salt water fish can live in brackish water (diluted saline)...
I know some can, but most of the ones I am familiar with are the bottom feeders that originated in fresh water, and evolved into salt water types...

If the Ice melts, it will change the salinity of the oceans... perhaps enough to damage an already fragile fish population...
fish provide a significant percent of our food...

Also... with the melt water coming... it will leave huge areas of land unusable (alaska will be a mud pit, florida will be a swamp, louisiana will as well...
this will increase the population density of the areas that are habitable... which in turn will increase the chance of Plague...

Not looking good... the best chance for survival will be in sparsely populated geographically/climatically sound areas...

lazarus it is all about the same thing and if you want em to relate energyu and ice consumption to ice melting its fairly simple melting ice requires lots of energy to make the phase change from solid to liquid but this is all about global warming and efects.

massive weather changes, some parts getting colder, some parts getting warmer... that alone, should strike fear in your heart if you truly understood the ramifications...

if i remember this has allways hapend ice ages, mass extinction events, and warmign trends have allways been as long as this rock has origonaly cooled and formed a protoweather patern

well actualy you have it kinda backwards back then(billions of years ago) there was a lot more CO2 then there is now from all the valcanic activaty and there is no way you can burn all the hydrocarbons on earth. there is alot more then what cnn leads us to beleve.

In case you still think that trees make our oxygen and filter our co2...

you should research that b/c thats very not true planktin out produces trees making O2 but not by much but trees are much better carbon fixers b/c of the mass and lifespan of trees.

(PS. re read the link you sent especialy the caption on the bottom left by the trees.)

honestly i dont know what the salinaty would do to algy i think it migh make them thrive but idk...

yes salinaty is a maj. issue with this b/c if you lower it billions of fish will die but then there will b more created think of bass being able to live in the pasific lol

yess the heavy die off is very natural we are at about 1/3 the way through a mass extinction event so we will see alot of specilised anamals(ex. cheta) will all become extinct b/c they are not able to adapt.

yes i have read most of the Dirk Pit collection and i love it though i think you need to re read it b/c if i remember correctly part of the growth of the read algy was becaus of the corrupt dumping oporation at the solor powerd chemical dumping facilaty that leaked a chemical taht caused ot to grow not salinaty......

and come on you cant use a fiction novel as a basis for an argument... heck i could use the war of the worlds to prove there cant b any aliens on earth(well not for long)....lol


50 years the thing i ment was in 100 years if the exponential melting continues the ociens will rise 10-30cm the 30-40m was if all of the ice melted all of a suden one night and none was absorbed

then theres Arcane Demesne you are a funny guy posting realy bad info ok for one 14000 years ago the water was o 125feet below what they curently are rla.unc.edu...

next global warmoing hasnt been steady for 14000 years go look that up 2

if global warming is man made and more co2 and earth gets warmer it is good for farmers so lets take FARMING 101 if you give a corn plant more CO2 more heat and more humidaty you will see a huge boost in crop production.

and the black plage was spread by little fleas on rats that got on cloths and food that spread to anamals not starvation. and i dont know how your house is but i havent seen to many rats in my house b/c i live in a house and i bet that a good 98% of people live in some decent shelter free of vermen and we have medicen now and not blood letting and im shure a bit better sanatation then back then

Ever hear of the black pleague? It got it's most victims, because their was no food or capable housing

Also... with the melt water coming... it will leave huge areas of land unusable (alaska will be a mud pit, florida will be a swamp, louisiana will as well...

im sorry to say thats not true if alaska becomes a swamp it will become a ecosystem and a milder climate and ppl will move there and well b able to drill oil there so there will b jobs and the ice that will rise the oceans has to b from land so what ever melts will expose land it wont work the way you might say this process would take many many genarations for even a 3-4 meter rise...as for louisiana im sorry to say that it is not a very good place to build a city thats now below sealeval it would be foolish to repeat the same mistake without vastly improving the protective systems ...if nature had its way it would b a marsh anyways.

Originally posted by engenerQ
im sorry to say thats not true if alaska becomes a swamp it will become a ecosystem and a milder climate and ppl will move there and well b able to drill oil there so there will b jobs and the ice that will rise the oceans has to b from land so what ever melts will expose land it wont work the way you might say this process would take many many genarations for even a 3-4 meter rise...as for louisiana im sorry to say that it is not a very good place to build a city thats now below sealeval it would be foolish to repeat the same mistake without vastly improving the protective systems ...if nature had its way it would b a marsh anyways.

If you like swamps and sticky-hot weather. Personally, I can't stand anything above 65 degrees farenheit. And I'ved in Florida my entire life. Born in Miami, now residing in Tampa. I'm not over weight (185 lbs 6'2"), and I don't have high blood pressure. So why can't I stand the 105+ degree summers in full humitidy?

Because evolution hasn't gotten me there yet. It's the same with most people. I get sick if the avg temp changes from 80 to 50 degrees in a few days, as I suspect most people do. It's a roller coaster.

It would be a good thing if it got warmer?! Yeah, ok.

I can't wait to move somewhere where it snows! And if our climate chagnes so that it never snows...well then @#$! that!!!

Global warmin is an issue. Human evolution has always been quicker during cold periods (not too cold, but much milder than today). I hope the warmth we have now sends us into a deep freeze.

Originally posted by engenerQ
you should research that b/c thats very not true planktin out produces trees making O2 but not by much but trees are much better carbon fixers b/c of the mass and lifespan of trees.

(PS. re read the link you sent especialy the caption on the bottom left by the trees.)

From the link,

The Most Important Organism?

[...]

Overall, the production of oxygen in the oceans is at least equal to the production on land if not a bit more. Plants on land are easy to spot. Plants in the ocean are a bit more difficult to see since they are single cells floating in the water. Even though you may not see them, they are there. Remember, these little cells go down to over 300 feet below the surface so they have lots of room to spread out.

[...]

And as for carbon-fixing, who says algae and plankton can't fix it? Ever heard of gas hydrates? And if I'm not mistaken those gas hydrates eventually get cooked into the stuff you pour into your gas tank.

Trees are important, but don't underestimate our microscopic friends, the algae.

Marine plants are also used as food, but we tend to forget about them because they are so small and difficult to see. But remember, the next time you wake up in the morning, stretch and open wide with that big morning yawn, that breath of fresh air you are getting is due for the most part to our friend, the algae. If we kill them by polluting the oceans, we are also killing our vital lifeline.

Originally posted by LazarusTheLong

Also... with the melt water coming... it will leave huge areas of land unusable (alaska will be a mud pit, florida will be a swamp, louisiana will as well...
this will increase the population density of the areas that are habitable... which in turn will increase the chance of Plague...

to clarify MY quote...
I said that population density contributes largely to the possibility of Plague...
In other words... any contagious disease becomes "a plague" in high density cities.
not "the black plague..." specifically... although that will also be an issue.

and as far as alaska... Have you been there? permafrost is very vulnerable to melting... In areas where it is seasonal, it becomes impassible when it melts... I picture a very wet lush alaska, beautiful but hard to get to.

You are right about the C02 fixing by trees... that is a great advantage... and one reason we still need to restrict logging, and plant more of them.

As far as the CO2 already released, it will help grow more trees... and there will be a balance eventually... but it might just be shortly after we are extinct...
We- the Human race, need less C02 in the atmosphere to thrive... and the trend doesn't look good...

well first my apologies long i misunderstood sorry about the mistake

carbon fixing is the abilaty for the plant to retane the carbon it takes from the air. see when plankton suck it in therere not that big and they die fairly quicky to go back it to the enviroment. as for trees trees are huge and they live along time relesceing that carbon slowely.

and when you hear people talk about global warming there not talking about 30degs. people freak when the avg. temp goes up 1 deg. so when talkign about global warming its gona b less than 5

i live in indiana where the summers are 100 with 90%humid. and winters in the negatives and i have lived in AZ so i know about weather patterns being unpredictable. the topic isnt about what remp you like its about survivle. and i dont quite know about the evalution in colder climates ill look in to that.

the amount of trees is up to nature b/c it makes no sence to cut down all the trees. check it out when there is a lumber compandy cuts trees down they plant as much or more where they wonce where b/c what sence would it make once all the trees are gone they would be out of bis so they do there best to keep more planted then what they cut down. take a loko at the mt. st hellians (cant spell lol) a vally was totaly devastated by the flow one side was bought by a lumber company and the other side was left to nature as per the tree huggers demands. if i can find a pict i will but the lumber half is coverd in trees with one little square patch where they are cutting while the outher has a cupple trees over the whole area jsut neat to see how big bis is healping take CO2 out of the atmosphere.

yes the link was to prove that trees made atleast a small signifacance to O2 production nothing abou tit domanating it i know that planktin is the maj. producer

"only greenhouse gas emissions can explain freak weather patterns "

news.bbc.co.uk...

I am not shocked by this news story, although the everyday person should be.

Man only ever deals with things when there on the doorstep, look at the UK's preperation for bird-flu. Throughout my life the problem of global warming has been highlighted. Man thinks he knows everything; "so there is the problem of global warming but we've got it under control and we'll fgiure out an alternative in time". Scientists are discovering new effects of global warming all the time; the glaciers melted faster today, higher temperatures in deserts will add to global warming effect yesterday and the movement of the gulf stream before that. Last century we were told how the lungs of the planet were being destroyed.

So, where do we go? One answer, for you conspiracy theorists, is that its all nonsense, with the media attempting to incite fear into our hearts.

The next path entails that we can, with concerted effort, prevent man's massive ecological footprint from extending into our atmosphere. I point you in the direction of my thread about my idea for a water turbine (please give me your criticisms, it'll help the person that does make it and then we can all have free energy i do my best).

The final direction these ideas lead me is that we are past tipping point. We only have one world, and we haven't been here very long. We used to think God did everything and now we have our own ideas. Well, these ideas might not be up to scratch. This environment we are lucky enough to exist in works on a clock people cannot contemplate. Most people resort to the 24 hour clock... "oh we've only been around for 3 seconds ".

Aren't we great, we, three seconds old, are masters of the universe. We can dig up oil, burn down trees, play with nuclear power, whatever we want. Well, try this thought experiment. Imagine the world was a 24 hour clock. We have changed this enviroment in the most unnatural way in the whole day. Nothing throughout the day will be able to demonstrate what will happen tomorrow, except that the earth is not without its mass-extinctions.

Now imagine a plane. It flys round the world in a day. Throughout that day it has troubles, but nothing it can't handle. Then at the end, human intervention, the pilots hijacked... game over.

I would ask someone to verify what I am now going to explain. A weekly magazine the UK, called THE WEEK, (the clues in the title, oh yeah) in Issue 549, 11 Feb 06, published an article featuring Jasper Gerrard, of Sunday Times acclaim, interviewed James Lovelock, a quoted "respected sciectist". The title was a Lovelock quote, and it sums up the article.

"The earth is doomed - let's make hay while it lasts"


[edit on 1/3/06 by byhiniur]

Originally posted by LazarusTheLong
If the Ice melts, it will change the salinity of the oceans... perhaps enough to damage an already fragile fish population...
fish provide a significant percent of our food...

Salinity affects the density of water. Density differences in water combined with differences in tempeture and the convection effects these generate are what control and drive the ocean currents. If the ocean currents start radically changing, we'll start to see major climate changes.

Climate chaos: Bush's climate of fear

A US government whistleblower tells Panorama how scientific reports about global warming have been systematically changed and suppressed.

Some of America's leading climate scientists claim to Panorama that they have been censored and gagged by the administration.

One of them believes the publication of his report, which catalogues the unprecedented rate of ice melt in the Arctic, was delayed as Americans prepared to vote in 2004.

More...

Yet another article describing this administration's agenda to lie to the American people...

A video documentary by Panorama relating to these events and others from RINF

RINF

Also the other documentaries at the end look very interesting, raises my opinion of the BBC.

NASA shelves climate satellites: Environmental science may suffer

NASA is canceling or delaying a number of satellites designed to give scientists critical information on the earth's changing climate and environment.

The space agency has shelved a $200 million satellite mission headed by a Massachusetts Institute of Technology professor that was designed to measure soil moisture -- a key factor in helping scientists understand the impact of global warming and predict droughts and floods. The Deep Space Climate Observatory, intended to observe climate factors such as solar radiation, ozone, clouds, and water vapor more comprehensively than existing satellites, also has been canceled.

And in its 2007 budget, NASA proposes significant delays in a global precipitation measuring mission to help with weather predictions, as well as the launch of a satellite designed to increase the timeliness and accuracy of severe weather forecasts and improve climate models...

"NASA has canceled, scaled back, or delayed all of the planned earth observing missions..."

More...

Nice.

EDIT: I then saw this story:

Pentagon's Space Spies

A bit ironic, don't you think?

[edit on 9-6-2006 by loam]

Jeez. Not that the info would get anywhere.

Check this out.

“DISINFORMATION SYNDROME” AFFLICTS FEDERAL GOVERNMENT - Officials Routinely Rewarded for Lying and Punished for Telling the Truth