Gagged NASA scientist warns: Ice Caps 'Melting Fast'

Seems some of you are on the 'It's a natural event, it has happened before' type of analogy.
Sure it's happened before, but never before have so many humans burnt so much oil, and cut down so much trees. Are the deniers saying that it's all natural?
It's possible some of it could be natural, but to say that we are not doing it, is like someone put it, like the Ostrich's head in the sand (don't think ostrich's actually do that, ahem, where were we, oh yeah...) we do in fact have increased Co2 in our atmosphere, perhaps in the past it was from volcanoes, but the main spewage comes from cars and pipestacks, and Cuban cigars (damn Cuba)

Problem is too, that global warming seems to be accelerating, because of the northern permafrost and frozen bogs thawing out and decaying releasing methane into the atmosphere which is about 28X more potent than Co2 for trapping heat, which in turn exponentially increases the warm. Not to mention China and India becoming oil pigs as well, the world burning more and more oil everyday.

To say it's only a natural event is to say that you fell for the Bush regime and the oil companies propaganda, as far as I'm concerned.

With the volume of ocean in the world,I doubt it it would have that devastating effect,now maybe a big change in earth's axis,as that would be a big change in displacement of water,otherwise big deal a few more inches of water worldwide?

I found this Most Interesting Article about "Fast Ice Caps Melting" in BBC - with nice Pictures to visualize the Problem.

Greenland heats up

The report, published by the UK government, says there is only a small chance of greenhouse gas emissions being kept below "dangerous" levels.

It fears the Greenland ice sheet is likely to melt, leading sea levels to rise by 7m (23ft) over 1,000 years.

The poorest countries will be most vulnerable to these effects, it adds.


Greenland heats up

Currently, the atmosphere contains about 380 parts per million (ppm) of carbon dioxide, the principal greenhouse gas of concern, compared to levels before the industrial revolution of about 275ppm.

"We're going to be at 400 ppm in 10 years' time, I predict that without any delight in saying it."

"No country is going to turn off a power station which is providing much-desired energy for its population to tackle this problem"

I think those are pretty Scary Facts about our Planet warming up.

And the most Scary Fact is, the last statement.

Anyway, I found this a little Older Article, about the Raising of Water Levels, that I think you should also take a look.

"Fingerprints" of melting ice caps point directly to global climate change and sea level rise



The figure is a computer simulation of what happens to sea levels in the event of ice sheet melts near the Northern or Southern poles. The blue colors show a drop in sea level while the red and orange colors show a rise.

The top image shows the impact on sea level when polar ice sheets in the Antarctic are melted. As can be seen, the blue color indicates a decrease in sea level near the Antarctic while it also shows a corresponding rise in sea level in the Northern Hemisphere.

The middle image shows the effect on sea level when the polar ice sheets of Greenland are melted. As can be seen, the sea level decreases around Greenland but rises in the Southern Hemisphere.

So if I got this Straight - if, or WHEN, the Ice Melts on Greenland the Sea Level around Greenland DECREASES - but Rises in Southern Hemisphere?

Anyway, here is also the Monitoring of Rignot and colleague Pannir Kanagaratnam, from the University of Kansas, which have build up a speed map of Helheim Glacier.

Retreat of the Helheim Glacier, Greenland

Images Speak LOUDER then Words, ey?

Originally posted by Toadmund
It's possible some of it could be natural, but to say that we are not doing it, is like someone put it, like the Ostrich's head in the sand (don't think ostrich's actually do that, ahem, where were we, oh yeah...)

I am one of the people who believes that even though it is a natural event, human activity does have an impact on the climate shift. But the thing is that there are some who are claiming quite literally that they want half of the population in the world to stop breathing, eating, and surviving in order for the climate shift to stop.

It is not going to stop, once it begins the cycle continues until the Earth finds a balance, and that takes quite a long time.

Originally posted by Toadmund
To say it's only a natural event is to say that you fell for the Bush regime and the oil companies propaganda, as far as I'm concerned.

Actually i believe that those who fall for the extremist environmentalists agenda, there is such a thing as caring for the environment without being an extremist, are just falling for the agenda against the west....

Even Chavez is using the "we better change the world and destroy CApitalism before we are all destroyed" line.....

Actually in ancient times it was not such thing as Pristine Forest yes the air was cleaner but the wild fires were an issue of the past as much as an issue in the present and they kept the forest trim year around.

The Forest that we have now and people are trying to preserve so much are actually modern forest.

The topography of the earth in ancient time is no near closer to what we have right now that we Call ancient in Man life time in earth

Far out some people are ignorant.

What is happening isnt just a normal natural event..
What is happening HASNT happened as it is happening today..

why?

14000 years back, THERE were no human beings when this supposidly happened, thats why THIS time its a major issue

and if greenland icesheets melt, it wont be a few INCHES that the water rises, it will be MUCH more, high enough to remove ALOT of cities.

This isnt a normal event because the human race has put so much crap into the enviroment its changed our weather..

Buch has gagged people... as have the Aussies..
why on earth would you gagg someone who was trying to give a assesment on the world climate

unless you know they are going to tell the world some news that will scare them.

all you people who look at this like its natural, normal and its nothing..
wake up and smell the roses.

Muaddib said:

Actually i believe that those who fall for the extremist environmentalists agenda, there is such a thing as caring for the environment without being an extremist, are just falling for the agenda against the west....

No, I believe these people actually believe that humans are mostly to blame, it's those whose motivations are to sell oil and make pollution that are mostly in denial.
Who is falling for what? Falling for the businees man who loses profits by cutting greenhouse gasses, or falling for the environmentalist who cares about the future of the planet?
Who are you falling for, who is most motivated to lie, and make lies the 'truth'?
WHO?!

Even Chavez is using the "we better change the world and destroy CApitalism before we are all destroyed" line.....

Well, I guess I kind of agree with him, Capitalism is a form of psychosis, a system built on greed and selfishness, I guess I also believe in Socialist Democratic governments, you know, the kind that if it works good, is good for everybody.
Capitalism is destroying out planet, it's bloody true, you can deny it if you want, but when greed rules, the planet suffers.
Capitalism has treated me well though, but I know the reasons for it are not sustainable and we must pay the piper for it.

Capitalism is merely a system, time for a new system, this one is broken.

Originally posted by Agit8dChop

14000 years back, THERE were no human beings when this supposidly happened, thats why THIS time its a major issue

Well, actually there were millions of people back then... some living rather similiar lives to people now... BUT i get your point though...
they weren't burning tons of fossil fuel.

I have studied this for some time... and IMO that while there are fluctuations in Natural cycles, This particular weather pattern change is mostly our fault...

We do know enough about science to understand what happens when you add CO2 to the lower atmosphere, and take ozone from the upper atmosphere... and that all seems to be happening...

so is it just odd coincidence that we are seeing exactly what scientists predicted before the gag order?

but instead of having anything to do with the correct predictions.... nah... just weather cycles...

yup... according to this administration... we all are just idiots incapable of understanding anything except lies... they have heavily underestimated us...
(smart minded ATSers that is)
not too far off for the sheeples though...

Gagged scientist or not, this word is getting out pretty well. It is my opinion that the earth is not fragile, at all. It is a hardy, robust environment that is dynamic and will continue to be so. Some scientists suggest that even if we stop pumping CO2 into the atmosphere, the climate will continue to warm, so what I suggest is that everyone just start trying to relax. The most any one person can do is to take care of his own business. If you think fossil fuels are to blame, stop using them. If refrigerants are the problem, turn off the air conditioner, etc.

A warmer earth will create create changes, but we can prepare for changes. A colder earth will create changes, but preparations would be much more difficult. We really can only talk about the planet as we have known it and as we can judge by evidence as it has been. We know that it can get really, really cold and that condition will not persist. The earth may be able to warm up considerably without any real effect, except as we humans judge on the basis of our own comfort.

Imagine all the wonders that may someday be unearthed after having been frozen in permafrost for millennia.

Google Search


[edit on 2006/2/20 by GradyPhilpott]

wow this thred makes me laugh so much i cant beleve how much people love to blame bush and scuse him of gagging

first off Agit8dChop let me hit you with some facts and a nice exparament to show you how off your clame is ok first lets imagen all the ice sheets on earth thats suspended over water melt instantly....the whole ocean leval will lower same reason a full cup of ice melts. next imagen all the ice on earth melts a 1/4 of that land melting fills in the difrence created by the ice sheets melting then picture the remaing 3/4 in the pasific ocean thats the poles with the ice sheets melted and 1/4 of there mass gone and greenland also fits easaly inside the area of the pasific sence ice is much less dence than liquid water the ratio is not 1 to 1 is signifacantly less seeing that the earth is 70% water that ice would be fairly insignifacant if you facter that remaning ice's mass then facter it in to the surface are of the whole earths oceans. neet ant it the math comes out to be somewhere from 4in to a foot and a half being leaneant. so that issue done.

ok next to the carbon issue quite abit of the co2 that we are curently puting in to the air was origanly there let me explane ok back in the day (i mean WAY back there) there was CO2 in the atmosphere that plants absorebed then phil the brakeosorous eats the plant and falls in to a bog. the carbon from that plant that it got from the air to the dinosar now it decomposes with other dinosars and plants and is eventualy becomes a hydrocarbon o lets say octane. the bad oil companies coem and drill liquid petro up and it makes its way in to your car then to the air once agian to do the same cycle. o and all that stuff we put in to the air like co2 goes back in to the ground in other ways liek carbonic acid H2O(rain) + CO2 = carbonic acid and it goes in to the ground and reacts with limestone that nutralises it in a sence. the other "bad" thigns we put up there mostly dothe same thing but in difrent ways.


ok now for that news article ok #1 bush only NOMANATES the very very top posisions the senate has the final say and if im not mistaken when the chairmen was apointed (by the senate) it was a damocratic majoraty so stop barkin up the wrong tree.

this article is writen in such a way to caus this kind of responce 1 he never actualy called for reduction or was evergoing to talk about it to the press it was the point of his lecture. next he said they TRIED to gag him but tried means they failed.
next the pubic afairs department isnt nomanated by bush
if you look at the article youll notice -'s meaning they cut out his actual words and can make it sound any way they want
it said he ignored the restrictions so that means he talked to the media.


if any of you have any facts to bring to support any of your arguements ide love to see them all i can see is overlapping pictures of ice within 5 years of each other. now if you can show me actual fats ide love to have a convo about this topic

im sorry after dubble checking my match and consulting a ecologist it turns out that the predicted water leval rise if this tred keeps up is 10-30cm but if all the ice on earth melts at once with out absoarbing it could rise as much as 30meters

sorry for the mistake

After going through and reading this thread, I found it very informitive and rather cumber some as well. I do know that the recent technologies available to us are capable of anylizing certain situations of our atmospheres fluctuations and we are very aware that the polutants that have escaped the human race has had it's effect as well. We are kind of a naieve creatures and usually don't know the out come until it is too late for to turn back the hands of time to make things they way they once were before our little ventures.
I say 'Watch and learn!" there will be something that will be benificial to come out of all this concern.

Originally posted by engenerQ
im sorry after dubble checking my match and consulting a ecologist it turns out that the predicted water leval rise if this tred keeps up is 10-30cm but if all the ice on earth melts at once with out absoarbing it could rise as much as 30meters

sorry for the mistake

You need to check your other figures also...
this isn't about how much the sea level will rise...
it is about global warming cooling and what the effects will be...

massive weather changes, some parts getting colder, some parts getting warmer... that alone, should strike fear in your heart if you truly understood the ramifications...

then consider the massive amount of C02 being released... you do know that it took almost 3 billion years for enough CO2 to be bound up (in rocks, deep sea ice, oil) for significant oxygen breathing life forms to evolve...
If we take that CO2 back out, then yes... the world will survive... but we wont...

There has been some amazing studies released in the last few years...
to bring you up to date:

In case you still think that trees make our oxygen and filter our co2...
they dont... they have almost a zero sum equation... very little of our breathable air comes from trees...

most comes from the oceans... little microbes and critters that generate the lions share of what we breath...
now... take away their salinity by diluting it with fresh melt water...
... and you kill them off...
then guess what comes next...

Scientists dont know what decreased salinity will do over the long haul... but they do know that it doesn't take much to kill of marine salt water algae with fresh water... they hope that a more tolerant version of the algae will spring up in the biological niche... but there is nothing guaranteed... maybe a fresh water algae will only produce co2... who knows...

What they do know is that we are getting ready to see a heavy die off of the oxygen generating processes of the earth...
and they are worried sick about what will follow...

Ohhh. and if that didn't scare you... read Sahara (clive cussler)..
it points out (very scientifically) that a die off of these marine algae could occur within months of imbalancing the water salinity... not human lifetimes...

read my link, and I think you will start to see the bigger picture... and the reason that this administration (not neccessarily the president) wants to restrict the info to the public...



marine algae respnsible for life on earth

Great post LL.

I missed that bit in my travels. ...Unfortunately, this is more very bad news. So it will be suppressed and we'll all sing together, "Don't worry. Be happy."

Here's an interesting, related article:

Ice worms: They're real, and they're hot

Nice addition Grady...
One thing I saw in that article that scared me, was the 50 year time line...
If all frozen climates are gone in 50 years, well...

It also indicated that fresh ice and snow also have algae... so hopefully a new breed will fill the niches as the former species die off...

But is there a transition time? will there be years or decades of oxygen poor atmosphere until a new algae takes its place among our oxygen cycle?

Will the now dilluted and toxified (from massive land runoff) ocean be able to support this new algae?

The levels might not rise very high... but the levees of human life requirement, will surely break...

Good thing i live in minnesotta were too high above sea level to have to worry about that besides its humans fault anyways I just happen to live in a safe spot =p

Maybe some aliens buried some kind of doomsday virus into the ice a long time ago? They said to themselves: "Heheheh, when the stupid humans comes to the point where they melt this ice, they will get a taste of this nasty little fellow. Hehehe". Like a time bomb...

I work with home and garden pond supplies and the contractors who build them.


I dont think we have to worry too much about the algae.

In my experience algae will grow anywhere. I have seen all types of manmade ponds and fountains and I have yet to see one that wont grow algae. From a puddle in a gravel yard, to giant koi ponds over 100,000 gallons, algae will grow no matter what you do to it.

I talked to someone in Hawaii who had numerous koi ponds and went into detail the problems she had with algae. UV lights, algacide, barley and benificial bacteris helped reduce the algae, but failed to control it altogether.

While an algae dieoff would be a problem, I think it would only be very tempory. Algae is a very persistant thing. About the only thing I have seen that is effective is completely eliminating sunlight, or in aquariums organisms that eat the algae.




Of course I still think that global warming is a serious problem. I doubt there is much that we can do about it at this point. Hopefully the politics of the war on terror can help to reduce this problem by making most of the world turn away from oil based power. One of the very few plus sides I see to current US administration policies is a focus on weaning ourselves off oil dependence. Even if they don't really mean it.

Originally posted by engenerQ
...ok first lets imagen all the ice sheets on earth thats suspended over water melt instantly....the whole ocean leval will lower same reason a full cup of ice melts...

That would be true if the ice was in the water. But it's not. It's piled high in glaciers (melting ones). That's why our oceans rose 300+ feet 14,000 years ago, and haven't receded yet. The water will just keep rising.

As I do agree that this warming has been going on, quite steadliy the last 14,000 years, we shouldn't count out the fact that the last 200 years of extreme glacier melting isn't due to our combustion methods.

And besides that, do you think people would rather breathe L.A., CA air and not fresh, say, Norwegian air?
Whether or not the warming is a man made process (I believe it is a man speeded process), it will not be good for us.

Ever hear of the black pleague? It got it's most victims, because their was no food or capable housing do to the Mni Ice Age from circa 1200-1750 (circa). The warm period of the Viking Age melted the glaciers and stopped the great conveyor belt from spreading warm air, so the earth cooled down, only 10-15 degrees. If all our ice melts, you can be sure the temp will drop much farther than 10-15 next time around.