More photographs leaked of Abu Ghraib

Originally posted by LoganCale
I am... speechless. Not about the pictures, though they are horrifying and sickening. But at the thought that someone would defend such actions by members of the U.S. military, an institution that is supposed to represent freedom and justice for all.

LoganCale:

That should give you some indication of why we find ourselves in the mess we're in. :shk:

[edit on 16-2-2006 by loam]

darkfalcon:

God bless all troops who are over there doing what these cowards will not

Torture? Kill entire wedding parties? Abuse civilians? Terrorize populations? Yeah, heroes indeed.

Of course, I assume you're writing this from iraq where you're serving right? Or are you one of us cowards.

I've said it before and I'll say it again, as far as social contributions go, a soldiers' contribution is on par with a janitor. They're a body that can fire a gun and listen to orders and STFU and do it. Not exactly la creme de la creme of humanity. Like it or not.

They're just regular people who have been trained to kill for their government's interests.

Just in case anybody thinks this might in some way further hurt the Bush administration, I'd like to beg to differ. I think actually helps. BTW, I'm a moderate liberal and a realist.

These pictures will inflame the Muslims all over creation and they'll wratchet up the rioting, burning down of fast-food joints, and insurgency in Iraq. Fueling the anti-U.S. fire is good for the administration because the Muslim repercussions give said administration more reason to stay the course.

On a political note, the Democrats will use this to hammer Bush and in the process make everyone want to puke because it once again makes the Dems appear like they want to jump at every possible chance to attack the President.

If I told you people loyal to the Republican/Bush cause were responsible for leaking these photos.............would you believe me?

Peace

Originally posted by Dr Love
If I told you people loyal to the Republican/Bush cause were responsible for leaking these photos.............would you believe me?

Actually, I considered the same.... Given the reason you suggest AND the Cheney shooting... I think the timing highly suspicious.

I am not defending any accounts of torture by anyone, those pictures that were released over the past few days do not show any conclusive proof of torture! What do they show? A bit of blood and a few cuts and bruises any of which could have happened when the said inmates were dettained. Go in any police station on a Friday/ saturday night and you will see blooded and bruised people injured resisting arrest or fighting. Does that mean police officers in every major city around the world are guilty of abuse and torture?

Since when has a man banging his own head against a door constituted torture? Maybe he was distraught because his suicide belt had faild to go off or something.

Discipline is lost among these soldiers and current accountability does not only rest upon their shoulders as the sole perpetrators of such and such acts, but on that of those in charge who are liable to teaching discipline which dictates proper decorum when caretaking of prisoners.

The conduction of these servicemen has severely dismantled U.S hegemony of human rights and other such dignitaries in Iraq.

Luxifero

darkfalcon1971

Then you obviously missed the hooded and naked prisoners at your local prison with gaurd dogs barking inches from thier faces; or, perhaps, the local teenagers who have been coerced to pyramid together naked...

Next time, be more observant there.

Luxifero

The pyramid photos were released a long time ago! You people only see what you want to see, prisoners are stipped naked to ensure they have nothing dangerous concealed on their person. Its a bit different dealing with a drunken thug and a suspected terrorist insurgent! You'll be offering them day release passes next!!

Originally posted by LoganCale
I am... speechless. Not about the pictures, though they are horrifying and sickening. But at the thought that someone would defend such actions by members of the U.S. military, an institution that is supposed to represent freedom and justice for all.

LoganCale, Not all US Servicemen and women were involved with these actions. Most do their job and just try to stay alive so they can come back home. They don't care who the President is or what the politics are, they are just soldiers. The pictures are old news, this crap has been cussed and discussed many times over. The only reason they are being released now has nothing to do with full disclosure. It is soley to stirr up ill content with the muslem peoples just as the Danish cartoons did. They serve no new purpose except to cause more death and destruction. More American Soldiers and more muslems will die because some jackass decision to dig up old scars. War is horrifying and it is brutal. Innocents die on both sides and abuses are commited by all envolved. When Wars are fought with powderpuffs and twizzel sticks then the world will turn to the Holier Than Thou soapboxers that are so vocal here today. But if the war is going to be fought with real bullets then you better pray to what ever God you worship that a squadron of baby eating, fire breathing, naplam pissing US Marines have got your back!

[edit on 16-2-2006 by WHOFLUNGGUM]

darkfalcon1971,

I'm not sure that prisoners are stripped in any prison to check for weapons, then told to form a pyramid, are you? This must be new protocol, obviously; it's apparent that these men were far too dangerous left standing on thier own, clothed.

Luxifero

Other wise you best head to Canada, at least there you can claim the moral highground while the executioners blade chops off your hea

Ignorant.

We Canadians have soldiers serving in Afganistan, and yours truely here, has a few freinds who would not take it good to be considered cowards as they are serving along side American and British troops..

Before you make such remarks that are prone to your own ignorance of history, be aware that this patriotic innuendo of yours is blind.

Luxifero


[edit on 16-2-2006 by Luxifero]

I would be the first to admit that naked prisoners in a pyramid is just a little bit strange, but normal rules of engagement do not aplly when dealing with suicidal religious fanatics. We've all seen the images of the london bombers walking into the underground as cool as cucumbers. Hell i bet they even smiled when they purchased their tickets. They are dealing with people who would slit there throats as soon as look at them. The troops are only human and can be expected to lose their temper every now and then.

Originally posted by Luxifero

Other wise you best head to Canada, at least there you can claim the moral highground while the executioners blade chops off your hea

Ignorant.

We Canadians have soldiers serving in Afganistan, and yours truely here, has a few freinds who would not take it good to be considered cowards as they are serving along side American and British troops..

Before you make such remarks that are prone to your own ignorance of history, be aware that this patriotic innuendo of yours is blind.

Luxifero


[edit on 16-2-2006 by Luxifero]

Luxifero, the dig was not taken as intended. I was referring, I admit in a bad choice of words, to one in particular that enjoys generalizing my country for his own personal agenda's. My humblist apologies to any Canadian Soldiers that are serving thier country where ever they maybe.
I am a Vietnam Viet that fought along side some of your countrymen in Nam and I would not intentionally say anything to dishonor thier sacrifice!
Sorry again but when people start attacking my country I get a bit ticked off! Again please accept my apology!

Perhaps you shouldn't take it as an attack, but more as a criticism? Patriotism is all well and good, but blind patriotism is something else... not saying you per se, but I've noticed a few...

Originally posted by Beachcoma
Perhaps you shouldn't take it as an attack, but more as a criticism? Patriotism is all well and good, but blind patriotism is something else... not saying you per se, but I've noticed a few...

Honestly I see what you are saying, but it is always the same ragged band members, playing the same old worn out songs and nothing new to help wash it down. Kinda like drinking a stale beer! The smell and the taste aren't quite the same but it still makes you piss alot!

What is supported and called justified concerning the barbaric treatment of these detainees or POW's treatment will affect our own future POW's treatment. There have been many deaths and injuries not just nude photos.

What goes around comes around and there will be no public outcry from the world for our own in the future due to the treatment of prisoners at Abu Gharib and Guantanamo prisons. What you justify and support today will be what you receive back, that is why there should be an outcry against this because if this is supported and allowed to continue our future POW's will bear the burden of it all.

Originally posted by Luxifero
darkfalcon1971

Then you obviously missed the hooded and naked prisoners at your local prison with gaurd dogs barking inches from thier faces; or, perhaps, the local teenagers who have been coerced to pyramid together naked...

Next time, be more observant there.

Luxifero

So a guard dog is placed in front of a prisoner...as long as this dog does not attack the prisoner, then there is no torture. If the dog attacks the prisoner, then the people responsible, should be prosecuted to the full extent of the law. Otherwise this is nothing more than a scare tactic. When will you people learn....We have a society..(NO excuse me a religion), HELL bent on destroying us. If scare tactics and a little humilliation are used to get them to talk..>SO WHAT!!! I'd rather our soldiers scare the sh*t out of someone, and get some answers...than treat them like guests and end up getting killed for it.
Maybe you don't realize...we are at WAR here! We have religious fundimentals who want to see us dead!!! If I had my way...I'd do whatever it took to find out what each of them knows, then send them to their 70+ virgins in the sky!!!America may not be perfect, but it is the best damn place to live....If it wasn't...Why are so many people trying to come here illegally.

Originally posted by Umbrax

Originally posted by BlueTriangle
The ones that show naked/hooded terrorists being hounded by dogs don't impress me at all.
...
How is the viewer to know whether or not these injuries were inflicted at abu ghraib or during their capture?

How is the viewer to know whether or not these are terrorists?

Anyway, seven soldiers were charged with dereliction of duty, maltreatment, aggravated assault, and battery from the last batch of photos. These new photos are apparently extra photos from that time that have not been published before.

These photos will be used to enrage the Middle East even more than they already are.

The only purpose pictures like this really serve are to inflame the haters.

Kind of like those Mohamed 'toons.

or even self inflicted

sry about that i copied the wrong quote, it was supposed to be about how the injuries were caused,the person wrote that they could have happened when they were caught, and i mean or they could have done it to themselves to make americans look worse than they are

The photographs are from the first Abu-Ghraib scandal. Cpl Charles Graner who is already in prison is in many of the photos.