More photographs leaked of Abu Ghraib

The photos America doesn't want seen

MORE photographs have been leaked of Iraqi citizens tortured by US soldiers at the notorious Abu Ghraib prison on the outskirts of Baghdad.

Tonight the SBS Dateline program plans to broadcast about 60 previously unpublished photographs that the US Government has been fighting to keep secret in a court case with the American Civil Liberties Union.

Although a US judge last year granted the union access to the photographs following a freedom-of-information request, the US Administration has appealed against the decision on the grounds their release would fuel anti-American sentiment.

Some of the photos are similar to those published in 2004, others are different. They include photographs of six corpses, although the circumstances of their deaths are not clear. There are also pictures of what appear to be burns and wounds from shotgun pellets.

More...

The timing on this could not have been worse.

I'm afraid things are really going to get crazy.

:shk:


[edit on 14-2-2006 by loam]

[edit on 15-2-2006 by John bull 1]

For some reason I had a hard time finding the rest of the photos but I found the link.

Gallery.

Some of te images were a bit hard to look at, like #8.

Originally posted by Umbrax
For some reason I had a hard time finding the rest of the photos but I found the link.

Gallery.

Some of te images were a bit hard to look at, like #8.

These pictures are very vague. The ones that show naked/hooded terrorists being hounded by dogs don't impress me at all. The ones showing injuries don't show how the injuries occured. How is the viewer to know whether or not these injuries were inflicted at abu ghraib or during their capture? We have no way of knowing, those who hate the US will assume they're being tortured, those who do not will assume that the injuries are incidental. The only purpose pictures like this really serve are to inflame the haters.

Originally posted by BlueTriangle
The ones that show naked/hooded terrorists being hounded by dogs don't impress me at all.
...
How is the viewer to know whether or not these injuries were inflicted at abu ghraib or during their capture?

How is the viewer to know whether or not these are terrorists?

Anyway, seven soldiers were charged with dereliction of duty, maltreatment, aggravated assault, and battery from the last batch of photos. These new photos are apparently extra photos from that time that have not been published before.

These photos will be used to enrage the Middle East even more than they already are.

The only purpose pictures like this really serve are to inflame the haters.

Kind of like those Mohamed 'toons.

How civilized! :shk:

But I'm willing to bet that if the tables were turned it'd be no different. Humans can be worse than animals.

I don't understand, how does torture help with whatever it is they're trying to do. I mean with investigations, wouldn't torture eventually lead the person being tortured to say anything just to escape torture?

And if it's to fight terrorism, I fail to see how terrorising another will do the trick. In fact it might create more terrorists, no?

Say for example in the beginning the person was a neutral, a moderate, perhaps like me. And then he gets captured and thrown into these prisons because one of his mates from school just so happen to be a radical. Now he may or may not know that his friend is a radical. All he knows now is that he is in a cell, being interrogated for something he know nothing or very little about.

Then the torture begins. If I were him, I'd prolly say anything they want me to say, just to get it over with. And when they finally release me, if they ever do, I'd have more vengeance and a HUGE axe to grind with America.

No, I'd say torture won't solve the problem. Torture will not help America's War on Terrorism. It's just gonna create more terrorists and push more moderates to the brink, to the edge of the cliff where moderation ends and extremism begins. Unless that IS the goal.

That may not be so far off... think about it... more terrorists equals more instability in the ME... more instability equals more interventions.... more interventions equals more resources required and obtained for the military...

Hmmm... am I on to something here? Or is that too far a stretch?

Savages being treated as savages, whats the problem?

How do you know they are savages? How do you know they are terrorists? How do you know there wasn't anyone there who got thrown in wrongfully?

That is the problem. And even if they are all guilty, how does being a savage yourself help the situation?

More technically advanced, yes, but as far as ethics goes, more or less the same as these "savages" to me.

Cole? do you know how many people were Detained In those prisons? I mean We barely invaded the country and we automatically Arrested thousands who may or may not have been threats! Now While I have no problem with Thousands being detained, I do have a problem WIth uncivilized behavoir!

Theres is nothing wrong with doing your best to Maintain Authority and discipline in a prison, But the line between Torture and Detainment is a pretty freaken obvious line!!!

We are supposed to be better than this! While I don't expect a parade for these people, alot of these folks were detaine on assumptions without our view of Due Process!!

IMHO its Un-American to things this way, Despite How our prisoners might be treated , It doesn't give us the right to stoop to their level, Agreeing with this kind of behaivor is truly Unamerican!

It wasn't That long ago when Minorities in this country were treated this way(and in alot of parts still are) automatically when arrested for crimes they may or may not have comitted. There is always a better way to go about things without having having to succumb to beating up prisoners, Especially without having reports on why they were treated that way to begin with!

There is a higher calling and example that we should provide whether or not we feel like speading hate, We are supposed to show the world why they would benefit from our help, Not show them that we succumb to the same brutal inhibitions that they suffer from!

Just cause Its harder to do waht is right, Isn't a excuse not to do it!I know the world isn't perfect, But I will Godman choke on my own words before I let these thoughts and actions enter my Own House!!

My mother came to this country for oppurtunity and fairness, for a chance to give her children a chance at to live a dignified life! Not to live by the rules of Hypocrites!!People who figure and ends to a means whether Honorable or not is worth it despite the cost of your soul!


I don't know whether You were being sacarstic or not, But the viewpoint really angers me. People always blame what they think is obvious as opposed to what should be obvious!

What the hell happened to the old view on POW's? was the whole thing just a lie to make ourselves feel better? Am I wrong and is the correct thing to do is to make yourself behave like an undignified bigot and animal?

Is our system of life and justice only worth something when its on our own land?

Crap like this makes me wonder if i've been living a hopless dream by trying to be just and honest.If working hard at my Life and Job to make a better place for my family is nothing but a facade at what I should be doing, That I should be Venomous and brutal and take what I want despite waht it cost others!

That Higher Aspirations are nothing but that , Aspirations that I should toss away and just join the crowd at the cost of my ethics because its the Easier thing to do!


As i said before , We should be setting an example not taking photos for fun at someone else's expense, Its Distasteful and Undignified to do so, Otherwise thousands of prison guards across the country would have sites dedicated to doing so in on our own soil.

mod edit: censor circumvention


[edit on 15-2-2006 by sanctum]

Originally posted by C0le
Savages being treated as savages, whats the problem?

I agree!

These people are trying to kill your troops why should you now feel sorry for them?

I'm sick to the stomach.

No, I am not american, but I have always admired the American way - by that I mean that the human rights record of america has been pretty darn good (well, with what we SEE anyway). The American way, to me out in the rest of the world arena, stands for liberty, freedom, human rights, democracy and its something I think the American people are proud of.

I understand that these men are just as willing to do the same to the US/UK soldiers, and that makes them very wrong. But the allied soldiers lowering themselves to the same sort of tactics just isn't "right". It defies human rights, and the right to be found guilty by a panel of men & women etc etc before punishment is handed out. I guess I just expected more from the democratic "good" guys.

I have never been in a war situation, I have never dealt with anything like these soldiers have had to deal with. I am not judging them because I cannot possibly understand what they have to deal with over there.
It just seems hypocritical to be stamping out torturing leaders like Saddam whatshisface only to have the western soldiers doing kinda the same thing in some respects. That goes for the UK soldiers who were seen beating teenagers too.

Its hard for me to even think about judging these men because of these pictures.......but dang, as a human being, its hard not to too.

Originally posted by DodgeG1
I agree!

These people are trying to kill your troops why should you now feel sorry for them?

Nobody is asking you all to feel sorry towards people that are out to kill you. However, if you believe yourselves to be more civilized, that is, the opposite of "savages," then why, may I ask, are these sort of behaviour acceptable?

Why is it acceptable to torture your captives? Why is it acceptable to beat people who are tied up and therefore can't defend themselves? Why is photographing these people's degradation for all to see acceptable?

Can't you see the irony? Two wrongs make a right, huh? :shk:

[edit on 15-2-2006 by Beachcoma]

"I don't understand, how does torture help with whatever it is they're trying to do. I mean with investigations, wouldn't torture eventually lead the person being tortured to say anything just to escape torture? "

---------------------------

maybe that's where these pics were susposed to come in...

ya know, I disagree that they'd be treating their captived in the same manner.....how many of the hostages have been televised completely nude. or in sexually demeaning positions? "

they find out that haven't told them the truth, and well, ooops, the pic is in their neighborhood, published in papers, for their neighbors, wife, children ect. to see.

but, they're worried about what we watch on tv, and the porn on the net...

for a group that proclaims to take the "moral high ground, this is very, very low!!

Oh no, more photos, please muslim world, dont be mad, oh no, im sooooo afraid of what the muslim world might do now. Oh no, more rioting, more killing, oh muslim world please dont be mad at us.

Why are you people so afraid of the islamic world????

WHO CARES about abu garahibabaaga. You see a naked prisoner with a hood and think thats torture. Mommy must have never beat you when you were younger if thats torture to you!!

Why dont you care about the BEHEADINGS!!!!! I guess putting a hood over some naked muslim is worse than cutting through someones neck with a rusty blade.


Train

big train so your mammy beated you till your where bleeding?

psychoanalystes would have alott of work on you

the beheadings are only a Small portion of the deaths and secondly they are not 100% REPRESENTATIVE FOR A POPULATION.





[edit on 15-2-2006 by Pinbag]

"The pictures ... include a man with his throat slit, another with massive head injuries and a third covered in what could be faeces -- were among what SBS said would be dozens shown later today. "

www.forbes.com...

The thing about this incident is, is that releasing more pictures doesnt help the situation. The more pictures they publish the more enraging to our enemy it is. We already know what was going on there, its been or is being dealt with so lets move on. Why would anyone want more pictures put out? It doesnt help control the insurgency or create any kind of peace. We all know the media will play this to the bone as that is what they do best. Take a negative story and run it for about a month straight.

I would like to take this down to a basic level.

We have a basic assumption of innocence from the majority of people in this site for the people in the prison.

We have a basic assumption of guilt for the American soldiers.

Why?

Basic Anti American hatred on a biblical scale. By the way picture #8 is a battle wound not torture. And yes I have seen battle wounds before.

ahh hell with it .

lets just start ww3 and get it over with .

maybe then with 3/4 of the worlds pop gone . we can start fresh .
and maybe learn from old mistakes and such .

thats what all of this is leading up to right ?.
i dont know myself . but i would think so .

its just a matter of time before it does happen , its just the way it is.

The seven soldiers who committed these crimes have already been charged (some convicted) for what they did. The release of these pictures serves no purpose other than to incite more muslim riots.

Originally posted by crmanager
I would like to take this down to a basic level.

We have a basic assumption of innocence from the majority of people in this site for the people in the prison.

We have a basic assumption of guilt for the American soldiers.

Why?

Basic Anti American hatred on a biblical scale. By the way picture #8 is a battle wound not torture. And yes I have seen battle wounds before.

It doesn't matter if the prisoners were guilty or not, most probably were. Even the guilty though should be treated humanely.

US soldiers are supposed to represent a civilised country.

If those were US prisoners wouldn't you be outraged?

These photos probably represent only a fraction of the prisoners abuse comitted in Iraq anyway!