Have you guys ever heard of Aleister Crowley?

I think i saw somewhere that Barbra Bush was supposed to be related to Aleister Crowley?
ps youll find him on the Beatles Sargent Pepper album cover tucked away in the background!

[edit on 24-7-2010 by DCDAVECLARKE]

Originally posted by metalholic
reply to post by pryingopen3rdeye

 

!

well you sure set up about a hundred straw mans with your replys,

so your contention is that he is misunderstood because nothing he said was literal and it was all meant to be some kind of riddle? well then i would expect someone like that to be misunderstood in a proper way of being understood.

regardless of all those things you said about hypocrites etc etc, crowley would clearly do things to others that he himself would not wish upon himself. do you disagree with that? if so then i give up your very mislead.

reply to post by pryingopen3rdeye


What did Crowley do that was so shocking? Nurse two people, using his own meagre money to buy them medicine when he told them flat out, not to drink the water from the local wells?

It says much that many choose to believe the lies published about him by the likes of the Telegraph and Daily Mail, both of whom were glowing in their support of Hitler right up until war broke out.

You want a well known public figure from that time period who was indeed a hate filled, misogynistic, anti semitic and racist. You need look no further than Henry Ford, who Hitler himself, greatly admired for his political and social views.

History, or the popular view of it, is often written by those with the money to pay for it.

That's not to mention the likes of Dennis Wheately, who made an absolute fortune from Crowley's personal help and then slaughtered the guy in his books and totally misrepresented him and the ideas he was proposing.

reply to post by crowdedskies

There is a striking resemblance between greys and that Aleister Crawley drawing. But that is not all; there is a striking resemblance between greys and demons generally.

A long time ago I considered the notion that most aliens were manifestations of the same entities that occultists refer to as the inhabitants of the zone girdling the earth. Now I am fairly convinced.

There is?!? I have seen no such resemblance. If One were to go into Liber 777 (Crowley's tables of correspondences) and look up the "Magical images" of virtually any Goetiac Demon you find things like "Lion with Asses Head", or "A strong man with Serpent's tail, riding a Horse". Not very Grey like in any way.

Though "Lam" was a very Grey like individual, and Crowley, in his diaries seems to refer to him as an individual, though not one of aspiritual or "supernatural" nature. From the way he talked about Lam, it seemed more like he was refering to just another person. When I find my copy of Crowley's 1947 diary I'll post some of the stuff in there.

Also, this "zone girdling the Earth", I've been a student of Crowley's writings, and Western Ceremonial Magick for 40 years, and have never heard it put quite that way. In any case, there are no attributes that can equate any aliens to demons.

Etharzi od Oma

Originally posted by pryingopen3rdeye

relax, this is friendly debat here nothing more.

that said lets see some things first

[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/68f224dd5f7d.jpg[/atsimg]

heres crowley with lots of pyramids perhaps illuminati reference?

You are aware that Pyramids are an Egyptian thing right? And, as such , has nothing to do with the Illuminati.

Crowley claimed to identify himself with the Great Beast 666 (from the Book of Revelation) and enjoyed the appellation of "wickedest man in the world."

Do you know why Crowley adopted that indentification? If you had read his "Confessions" (Autobiography) you might. But, alas ...

When he was still a boy, his Mother began calling him that. His parents it seems were rather abusive, and young Edward began to develop a strong dislike for both his mother and father. So, to spite his mother he kept the moniker. It is difficult to tell from his works whether he actually beleived he was the Beast 666, and while he does bring it up from time to time, it doesn't appear to be anything he obsessed about.

now would a man who identifys himselfs with the beast 666 realy have any interest in promoting any kind of peace?

Crowley worshipped the demon god Pan, the god of sexuality and lust. His “Hymn to Pan” was read at his funeral: “I rave and I rape and I rip and I rend

I've not read anything "official" about his funeral, but that sounds more like an O.T.O. thing than Crowley himself.

Through most of his life he was more into an Egyptian pantheon of "Gods" than anything else. And, seemed to prefer "Nuith", Hadith", and "Ra Hoor Khuit".

he liked his own made tag line “I rave and I rape and I rip and I rend"

and i myself know two people personaly that have been raped in their life after seeing the trauma it has caused them for their entire life i know i could never EVER support rape, and crowley did, therefore i could never EVER support crowley, like i said he is a man of plunder not property.

so you say what you will about him, i say he was a bad man. if i raped you you'd think the same about me so dont be a hypocrite.

I've never seen that as any sort of "tag line" used by Crowley, and I have read every word he ever wrote.

He, never supported Rape, or the harming of another person. In fact, he seemed to beleive in the sanctity of the individual soul and spirit. Pretty much the exact opposit of what you seem to think of him.

Etharzi od Oma.

Originally posted by AnthraAndromda

Originally posted by pryingopen3rdeye

relax, this is friendly debat here nothing more.

that said lets see some things first

[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/68f224dd5f7d.jpg[/atsimg]

heres crowley with lots of pyramids perhaps illuminati reference?

You are aware that Pyramids are an Egyptian thing right? And, as such , has nothing to do with the Illuminati.

Crowley claimed to identify himself with the Great Beast 666 (from the Book of Revelation) and enjoyed the appellation of "wickedest man in the world."

Do you know why Crowley adopted that indentification? If you had read his "Confessions" (Autobiography) you might. But, alas ...

When he was still a boy, his Mother began calling him that. His parents it seems were rather abusive, and young Edward began to develop a strong dislike for both his mother and father. So, to spite his mother he kept the moniker. It is difficult to tell from his works whether he actually beleived he was the Beast 666, and while he does bring it up from time to time, it doesn't appear to be anything he obsessed about.

now would a man who identifys himselfs with the beast 666 realy have any interest in promoting any kind of peace?

Crowley worshipped the demon god Pan, the god of sexuality and lust. His “Hymn to Pan” was read at his funeral: “I rave and I rape and I rip and I rend

I've not read anything "official" about his funeral, but that sounds more like an O.T.O. thing than Crowley himself.

Through most of his life he was more into an Egyptian pantheon of "Gods" than anything else. And, seemed to prefer "Nuith", Hadith", and "Ra Hoor Khuit".

he liked his own made tag line “I rave and I rape and I rip and I rend"

and i myself know two people personaly that have been raped in their life after seeing the trauma it has caused them for their entire life i know i could never EVER support rape, and crowley did, therefore i could never EVER support crowley, like i said he is a man of plunder not property.

so you say what you will about him, i say he was a bad man. if i raped you you'd think the same about me so dont be a hypocrite.

I've never seen that as any sort of "tag line" used by Crowley, and I have read every word he ever wrote.

He, never supported Rape, or the harming of another person. In fact, he seemed to beleive in the sanctity of the individual soul and spirit. Pretty much the exact opposit of what you seem to think of him.

Etharzi od Oma.

hmmmm interesting, this is good debate, even if some people are getting defensive and it is loseing its friendly nature, nevertheless it is apparent that there is an enormous divide between perceptions of this mans character,


you said - "It is difficult to tell from his works whether he actually beleived he was the Beast 666, and while he does bring it up from time to time,"

can you elaborate please? when he would bring up the beast 666 what did he mean by it? why would he bring it up?

and you said - "You are aware that Pyramids are an Egyptian thing right? And, as such , has nothing to do with the Illuminati."

to which i'll point out that i did say PERHAPS and i did mean perhaps,
on the flip side though if it wasn't illuminati reference then what was it? was he seriously worshiping the egyptions in that way?


someone asked what did he do that was so bad, i cant answer that, i dont know, but i ask you if all this is lies perpatrated to slander his character then why? why the interest in lieing about the man to this day on the history books? what were they trying to cover up? im curious is all, kindly and sincerely

[edit on 24-7-2010 by pryingopen3rdeye]

Yes I heard of him, he was mentally ill, a total fruit cake !!!


Just look at the photos and you don't need to be an expert to see what a total nut job he was!

[edit on 24-7-2010 by LUXUS]

Originally posted by pryingopen3rdeye

hmmmm interesting, this is good debate, even if some people are getting defensive and it is loseing its friendly nature, nevertheless it is apparent that there is an enormous divide between perceptions of this mans character,


you said - "It is difficult to tell from his works whether he actually beleived he was the Beast 666, and while he does bring it up from time to time,"

can you elaborate please? when he would bring up the beast 666 what did he mean by it? why would he bring it up?

Not really, most of the time when he mentioned it it was in the context of his autobiography, or in one of his diaries. It is seldom, if ever, mentioned in his actual writings. If memory serves.

I can't comment as to "why" he would bring it up.

and you said - "You are aware that Pyramids are an Egyptian thing right? And, as such , has nothing to do with the Illuminati."

to which i'll point out that i did say PERHAPS and i did mean perhaps,
on the flip side though if it wasn't illuminati reference then what was it? was he seriously worshiping the egyptions in that way?

Yes, you did say "perhaps", however when many people say "perhaps" it is because they perceive a connection of some sort, even if they can't always elaborate on it.

No, I don't think Crowley "worshipped" the Egyption dieties, though, from his writtings, he clearly had a great deal of, shall we say, respect for them.

someone asked what did he do that was so bad, i cant answer that, i dont know, but i ask you if all this is lies perpatrated to slander his character then why? why the interest in lieing about the man to this day on the history books? what were they trying to cover up? im curious is all, kindly and sincerely

What did throughout most of his life and Magical career was to reveal the most "hidden secrets" of virtually every "secret society" on Earth. This includes what is now called the "Illuminati". He taught all the same rituals, methods, and techniques, along with the "hidden" teachings of these societies. I doubt that he was very popular with them.

When he became the Head of the O.T.O. it was because he published what was some of their "secret teachings", they sued him and lost, he became the head of the Order.

Etharzi od Oma

Originally posted by LUXUS
Yes I heard of him, he was mentally ill, a total fruit cake !!!


Just look at the photos and you don't need to be an expert to see what a total nut job he was!

[edit on 24-7-2010 by LUXUS]

Interesting! Ever think about actually reading his works? Or perhaps doing some research to learn a bit of the truth about him?

Originally posted by AnthraAndromda
reply to post by crowdedskies

 

[

There is?!? I have seen no such resemblance. If One were to go into Liber 777 (Crowley's tables of correspondences) and look up the "Magical images" of virtually any Goetiac Demon you find things like "Lion with Asses Head", or "A strong man with Serpent's tail, riding a Horse". Not very Grey like in any way.

Though "Lam" was a very Grey like individual, and Crowley, in his diaries seems to refer to him as an individual, though not one of aspiritual or "supernatural" nature. From the way he talked about Lam, it seemed more like he was refering to just another person. When I find my copy of Crowley's 1947 diary I'll post some of the stuff in there.

Also, this "zone girdling the Earth", I've been a student of Crowley's writings, and Western Ceremonial Magick for 40 years, and have never heard it put quite that way. In any case, there are no attributes that can equate any aliens to demons.

Etharzi od Oma

WIth respect, I think you have totally missed my point. I have been using 777 since 1987 and I have a copy of Goetia purchased around that time too.

My point is that there is absolute no need for any reference to aliens in occult litterature. As you say there is absolutely no atributes that equates to aliens to demons. Anyone who seriously studies the occult should have no doubt that UFOS and ETs are part of the legions of 'demons' and 'angels'. They are perceived by different people according to their own preconception. The figures mentioned in Goetia and other writings are specific to the various location (often referred to as degrees of a circumsference - out of 360 degrees). They are very specific , hence the detailed description. When you come to the average entity, part of the legions, human preconception puts the shapes. Hence a 'demonic' shape that ETs tend to have.

The Skepdic.com

Is surely a mis information website of the first order. Its entry on Crowley may satisfy Sceptics of a certain leaning but is disingenous to me.

How on earth anyone can hope to encapsulate any human being in so few words and cite their poetry as indicative of their moral compass is completely beyond me. Crowley never was seen for his violence infact he seemed to be a very sensitive or even delicate person so perhaps “rending may just be wishfull thinking. There is no evidence of Crowley being a rapist neither.

It is clear that many did not like Crowley and it is their democratic right to do so. However judge the man by his output and his influence on modern thinking. Was Crowley a Bohemian? yes. Misogynist? yes it was the time. Racist - certainly (it was the ime). Bi sexua?l yes. Obnoxious to some people - yes human nature.

Why don’t people read books before they comment there is so much that Crowley wrote on the topic of “Do what thou wilt shall be the whole of the Law”. It was not a cry to do as you like or even do as you please. If anyone does not understand the phrase "true will" then get a thelmite to explain it to you or even READ the Damn books ( ooh scary lol).

To claim that Crowley rejected traditional morality is rubbish because there is every reason, based on evidence to suggest that Crowley also embraced traditional morality, as practiced by the English upper classes at the time. This was a time when to be an actress or a female shop assistant was deemed the equivalent of being a woman of loose morals. The Irish were habitually caricature by the high brow press as apes etc.

Of course his highly ignorant critics drive German cars or ford cars, wear garments made by countries who disrespect human rights or are happy with child labour, or were even at war with us, in the lifetime of a significant number of our citizens.

Pan Demon God??? The greeks gave the west their high culture at a time when they needed to develop such a signifier. Pan was never a Demon God. I can ssure you that there is a certain Stautue of Pan and Aphrodite that any hetero sexual guy can understand. She is about to wack him with her Sandal (lol).

I despair at those who can criticism based on the most passing acquaintance with any subject.


[edit on 25-7-2010 by Tiger5]

reply to post by crowdedskies


Yet of the several hundred demonic entities, there is not a single one that fits the description of the Greys. This includes, but is not limited to the Goetia, the Shemhamphorasch, planetary and zodical spirits (or demons), even the elemental entities; none of these has a traditional description that fits the Greys.

Here is an expirment that should be rather easy; try to evoke a Grey.

Remember, Greys are also associated with some sort of "spacecraft", they aren't an ordinary "flying" demon or spirit. One could also say that "demonic" like beauty is in the eye of the beholder.

In all of my experiences with both types of entities, I have seen no indication that Greys ar anything other than a physical entity. Demons are never physical, though I have seen them, on occasion, "borrow" a physical form from some near by animal.

Etharzi od Oma.

reply to post by Diplomat


he was a proponent of sex magick. that's what Lam is. it's coitus, to put it mildly.

Originally posted by pryingopen3rdeye

Originally posted by metalholic
reply to post by pryingopen3rdeye

 

!

well you sure set up about a hundred straw mans with your replys,

so your contention is that he is misunderstood because nothing he said was literal and it was all meant to be some kind of riddle? well then i would expect someone like that to be misunderstood in a proper way of being understood.

regardless of all those things you said about hypocrites etc etc, crowley would clearly do things to others that he himself would not wish upon himself. do you disagree with that? if so then i give up your very mislead.

i dont know one human alive who has never in any way physically,mentally,emotinally not harmed or intended to harm another...let he who has not sinned cast the first stone...

i dont see any stones flying atleast not from people worthy

Originally posted by AnthraAndromda
reply to post by crowdedskies

 

Yet of the several hundred demonic entities, there is not a single one that fits the description of the Greys. This includes, but is not limited to the Goetia, the Shemhamphorasch, planetary and zodical spirits (or demons), even the elemental entities; none of these has a traditional description that fits the Greys.

Here is an expirment that should be rather easy; try to evoke a Grey.


Etharzi od Oma.

I have on many occasions referred to the notion that 'they' have dropped the wings and the horns (and other features) and replaced them with sexy spacesuits to fool us. The grey appearance is probably 'theatrical' .

You refer to the physical quality of the grey. Do you know many instances where they have been touched. We all know the Rosswell footage. Is that the basis that people have in saying that the greys are physical ?

I just think he was a gifted psychopath.

Do what you will?? That is the whole of law??

Can anyone else see how psychopathic this is?

Entirely immoral.

reply to post by unityemissions

Can anyone else see how psychopathic this is?

Gee, Are you saying the mega Satanist, of the previous century, wasn't
a nice guy?
I agree with you. I can also see how this fits perfect with the theory that
aliens are demonic. Or am I being diplomatically incorrect? This is the conclusion Dr. Hynek had also reached before he died. He straight out said,
"I've come to the conclusion they are demonic".

reply to post by randyvs


Well, I actually think the majority of the Satanic philosophy makes sense. There is a few things that's entirely egotistical and I really disagree with .. but what I'm trying to say is that I don't need to involve religion in any way to see that this guy was pretty much without a conscience, if not entirely so.

Originally posted by unityemissions
reply to post by randyvs

 

Well, I actually think the majority of the Satanic philosophy makes sense. There is a few things that's entirely egotistical and I really disagree with .. but what I'm trying to say is that I don't need to involve religion in any way to see that this guy was pretty much without a conscience, if not entirely so.

Not sure whether conscience was so relevant to his life. He basically looked after himself and whatever he did was pretty much done in solitute or with his own students. He went out of his way to investigate the dark world (something that most of us are scared to do).

On the other hand there are people who swindle (steal) large sums of money from vulnerable people, Kill to steal , Kill for pleasure. Where do you rank them ? They seem to spend a short time in prison and come out as heros.

Crowley is called the Wickedest man on earth. Strange, he is seen as more evil than serial killers. Yet he did not go out to hurt people. He practiced his magic (bit of white, bit of black and bit of grey) and more or less let others to do what they want.

When you live in the world of practical magic, your personality undergoes drastic changes. You stop adhering to the artificial rules of society. That is when everybody start calling you psychopath and sociopath.

Whatever he did , he kept a line between good and evil. If he crossed the line sometimes , only himself and disciples would suffer. However if you read the newspapers everyday you will see abominable crimes being committed everyday. Many people dying and their families suffering. Yet the perpetrators are never assigned the notoriety that Crowley has been given.

Originally posted by randyvs
reply to post by unityemissions

 

Can anyone else see how psychopathic this is?

Gee, Are you saying the mega Satanist, of the previous century, wasn't
a nice guy?
I agree with you. I can also see how this fits perfect with the theory that
aliens are demonic. Or am I being diplomatically incorrect? This is the conclusion Dr. Hynek had also reached before he died. He straight out said,
"I've come to the conclusion they are demonic".

Hynek started off as a very scientific investigator. In the end he did say that UFOs were unlikely to be from outer space and that we should look closer home.

Whilst I am inclined to embrace the concept that aliens are demonic entities, I cannot see where and when Hynek specifically mentioned this. Do you have more information ?



[edit on 26-7-2010 by crowdedskies]

[edit on 26-7-2010 by crowdedskies]