Does Ballistic Missile Can Attack Aircraft Carrier Successfully?

Originally posted by chinawhite

Originally posted by rogue1
Yep it's the factory name and the name of the town.

A town, its not listed on any maps. And like warset pointed out, not even in the chinese language. Your town sounds like some poor area of china. Apart from the fact that you spelt the same factory with two different names shows what you know about the chinese language

LOL right......so you have detailed maps of China now do you, they list the 100 000+ towns in China - yeah right pull the other one.

Warset
"""there is no such a place called "Hai Fong", the spelling "Fong" doesn't exist in Pinyin. It must be a taiwanese spelling or sumthin "

Yes and he was correct it is Taiwanese..... this is your whole argument LOL.

You live in southern china, a small factory town with third world conditions. Not even close to mainstream china. You only know about your factory and the workers of your factory. Difference between that and my own situation talking to cousins living in most areas of china?. I have very large extended family ties

Actually the condotions are on par with 1st world - it is a massive beautifully landscaped place. You look anywhere China, any of the cities and you can see plenty of 3rd world conditions. Obviously you don't think much of your " country " - which is why I doubt you hvae any links to the PRC at all - just hot air.

Now are you ging to make some more BS up now about your wealthy uncle who has several factories LOL - I see you dropped that line of crap pretty quickly.

I can name 100 differences between people living in fujian, hunan guandong and beijing. What makes you know the "pulse" of the people.

Well you're an expert with google. Im sure I could find a thousand names of people who live there

The majority of people in guandong dont talk mardarin, how to you ahve a clue about the pulse of the people. I can also go into chinese jokes about the northern chinese, since im from the south.

See once again it shows how little you know. The majority of the people here speak Mandarin not Cantonese. Almost all the poeple who have emigrated here come from teh central or norhtern parts of China. Mandarin is also the offical language taught in schools.

You came to know the peoples pulse though you go to the region which is the most non-traditional chinese. They speak a different language celebrate different events and cook differently from other regions of china

LOL as above.

If you want to know the pulse of the chinese people, you should go to henan or hunan, They are known as the heartbeak of chinese society. This is the area all chinese originated from. This is the area where the revolution happens and most people trace their ancestors to this area.

Right, which wevsite did you get that from ....lol.

LOL and you didn't catch me with 2 accounts, it is well know to alot of moderators adn members, long before you " discovered "

I did catch you pretending to be two different members. You did that twice to me and a few other times to other members and gave yourself a standing ovation

LOL as I said in a previous post which you read, it was an inside joke wiht a few members who equally dislike you. I made no secret of it at all - as a matter of fact it we found it quite amusing at how obvious it was, yet it took you months to work it out. // golf clap // LOL.



[edit on 5-7-2006 by rogue1]

Debate challenge to mad scientist/rouge1 for the 3rd time

You claim to know more about china than me, prove it in a moderated debate

Originally posted by rogue1so you have detailed maps of China now do you, they list the 100 000+ towns in China

I dont need a map. Its not there since the spelling of it is not chinese. You dont even have to provide the address only a map of where it is located. If there is a place in existance at all.

A map wont give away any details of your tourist package

Yes and he was correct it is Taiwanese.

LOLOLOLOLOLOL

I knew you would try to pass something so stupid off. What a liar

There is no taiwanese pinyin. Its impossible to convert min nan hua into a pinyin system becauses its based on pitches not pronunciation or letters like english. Taiwan uses mandarin which does not have Fong in it. Omg, i cant believe you fell for this one

You wondered why i kept repeating it.

Actually the condotions are on par with 1st world

You own no money, your probaly in china with a economy tourist package in some cheap remote area of china. Thats why your stagger when people ask for details. No location, no address and not even a name for the area you live in. FAKE

Contrast

"""The poverty in China is in evidence all ove the place, 3rd world type stuff. """"

Yeah anymore BS

Obviously you don't think much of your " country " - which is why I doubt you hvae any links to the PRC at all

My passport says otherwise


Why would i lie to further my case?. I dont change third world to first world then back again. I know what china is like, im not going to say that the cities are poor their not. Just like i wont say the villages and towns are rich, because their not

I'll be there in november and back again in august the next year. Whenever you feel like telling me this fantasy place you live in U2U and i'll be there.

Now are you ging to make some more BS up now about your wealthy uncle who has several factories LOL - I see you dropped that line of crap pretty quickly.

I never dropped it, you dropped it

And when im there in november i'll be posting photos of my apartments and factories. Im dead serious about everything

Well you're an expert with google.

I dont use google

The majority of the people here speak Mandarin not Cantonese.

Someone who has been to hong kong or shengzhen wouldn't say that about any known location in guandong

Yeah in your "factory", hardly represents any type of chinese that could speak about average conditions. You clain to know the pulse of chinese people even though the chinese you know are imports to your village

Right, which wevsite did you get that from

I can buy books. Not just from books but from first hand contact between REAL chinese people

I said in a previous post which you read, it was an inside joke wiht a few members who equally dislike you.

Who?, mad scientist and rouge1?

How pathetic making two accounts to act like a little child

quote: Originally posted by mad scientist to rouge1 (same person)

Rogue1 I agree with you statements in regards to the information iskander posted. Anyways, I hope to see some more of your excellent posts. Cheers

Funny more inside jokes to iskander?

I made no secret of it at all

LoL



Thats a understatment, who in their right mind would think there was one person with two accounts on the internet preteending to be someone else



[edit on 5-7-2006 by chinawhite]

Originally posted by chinawhite
Their in a state of war. They need to be prepared, thats why there are different states of readiness

Yes and are you going to keep your entire ballistic missile force on a 5 minute launch status 24 hours a day?

No, they actually had maps of the approximate location of the carrier. The plane will then either go close to the area or be on standby on chinas coast waiting until the carrier is near the distance which can be verifed with chinas spy satillites

Note the word "had" no doubt they will not make that mistake again, if you tried to broadcast thier position even general then technically you are spying.
And those spy satalites would probably be non-operational balls of dust.

All their supply of missiles is where?

Probably dotted across the mainland US, but probably in carolina.

. And the chinese sateillite travels over the US?

Dont need to go over the US, hell they dont even need to leave the asian continent, mabye you forget the US has global strike capability, it has bases in every corner of the globe and can hit anything.

What will the use be when their so far away to attack only PLAN vessels?

Because PLAN landing forces need to get close to taiwan to invade it, unless the plan is to shoot them out of cannons?

yes fairy tales, your assuming that their are missiles use ready to lanuch

Well they DID test fire it in 1985, and I'm guessing that up until the cold war and after it they fancied the idea of having something to scare the ruskies. I doubt GWB would want to remove a nice tool like that.

No, its size compared to other ships around it

So if you hit a hospital ship because its bigger than the two other hospital ships next to it then it’s a successful mission?
Come on, the PLA is not going to waste several missiles and its kilo sub force against a “possible” carrier.

We are not talking about something that moves very fast.

Mate every aircraft has limits, anything that can travel several hundred miles in 5 minutes is fast in my book.

The faster the missile goes the less time the boat has to move about

Yes and the less chance of it being able to change its position during the time that the carrier moves and changes direction during relay.

mod edit: fixed broken quote tag.

[edit on 2006/7/8 by Hellmutt]

Originally posted by devilwasp
Yes and are you going to keep your entire ballistic missile force on a 5 minute launch status 24 hours a day?

Most likey yes considering they will be called to launch the first wave of attacks on the taiwanese. Like i said before, there are two crews for each missile and they will be waiting for the order to attack. Or when a carrier is approaching near the range of the missiles than they will be prepared in 15 minutes and wait for the carrier to come

Note the word "had" no doubt they will not make that mistake again,

Coming from you or coming from someone which is inportant?

Considering the US might take part in the battle instead of actually taking part. I like the expressing, no doubt. I have a a lot of doubts about your statment

And those spy satalites would probably be non-operational balls of dust.

Like how?

China just recently launched a SAR radar in april and has the capability to lanch more satillite if need be. When a satillite dies out on you, you launch another to re-place it. The satillites have dual purposes, civillan and military

Probably dotted across the mainland US, but probably in carolina.

Proof that they are in service, and has a quantity of them located anywhere?

mabye you forget the US has global strike capability, it has bases in every corner of the globe and can hit anything.

Global strike...lol. So they deploy this "quantity" of missiles around the world with modifed F-15s ONLY located in the US continent able to fly or unable considering the program had been terminated 18 years before or two decades

By the time the US approchs taiwan after taking out every single possible threat to a carrier than the war would ahve already been lost

F-15A 76-0086 was modified for trials with the Vought ASM-135A. The ASM-135A was carried on the centerline station of the F-15. The aircraft had to be specially wired to accommodate the ASM-135A missile, and had to be provided with backup battery, microprocessor, and datalink for midcourse guidance.

The first and only ASM-135A launch against an actual target satellite took place on September 13, 1985

Initial plans were made to modify twenty F-15As for the antisatellite mission and to assign them to the 48th TFS at Langley AFB in Virginia and the 318th TFS at McChord AFB in Washington. These squadrons had each received three or four F-15A/B airframes which had been rewired for ASAT operations. However, Congress was unwilling to permit any further testing of the system, and the ASAT program was officially terminated in 1988.

Source

So the article summed up is

- The aircraft needs to be modifed for a ASAT missile. Rewiring and fitting different electic gear. So that means any global reach the F-15 has, or planes in other bases need to be re-wired extensivly to fire a ASAT missile

- The other planes which have already been re-wired were might have been mothballed or discarded considering the gap of almost twenty years since the program and funding were terminated.

- The planes have not been maintaied or if mothballed would need to be checked to see if their still airworthly (if their airworthly). Then shipped to a continent which the satillite passes over.

- The twenty year gap also leaves a twenty year gap between trained personal which will be able to travel 80,000 feet and do a satillite intercept

- Only one test of the ASAT has ever been conducted, which means it may or may not fail when it intercepts. And dont even tell me it will work one hundred percent with only one test firing

Because PLAN landing forces need to get close to taiwan to invade it

They will be landing on the west side of taiwan island and possibly in the southern beaches considering the tropp concentration in taipei in the north. This leaves any US aircraft having to travel though a battle to actuall intervene in the actual fight. Or is the US carrier just going to travel there to protect itself and not to partake in the battle

PLAN landing forces will have the backing of the PLAN navy and at least 10 mobile destroyers with decent SAM cover and countless other ships with shorter range SAMs. But considering the war will be fought on the terms of the PLA that means that any attacking force will need to get close to the PLA land based SAMs

I doubt GWB would want to remove a nice tool like that.

Refer to the article

However, Congress was unwilling to permit any further testing of the system, and the ASAT program was officially terminated in 1988.

Source

So if you hit a hospital ship because its bigger than the two other hospital ships next to it then it’s a successful mission?

And any other ship in a carrier fleet even comes near the size of a carrier?. Thats just like a bomber and fighter on radar, well thats unless the carrier employs some near type of RCS reduction features i would say it would be a easy decision. Also it can be confirmed with satillites buzzing around taking live shots with its CCD cameras

Mate every aircraft has limits, anything that can travel several hundred miles in 5 minutes is fast in my book.

I was talking about the carrier

Yes and the less chance of it being able to change its position during the time that the carrier moves and changes direction during relay.

Traveling at Mach (6.5?) you make just the smallest change and you will have changed you course dramticly. Once the carrier makes a change, it will be registered and move its fins to change its course

mod edit: fixed broken link

[edit on 2006/7/8 by Hellmutt]

Originally posted by chinawhite
Debate challenge to mad scientist/rouge1 for the 3rd time

You claim to know more about china than me, prove it in a moderated debate

I do. A debate lol, all you do is scream. Unlike some people I don't hvae time to sit at a computer debating with whinging 16 year olds. As I said I know more about CHina than you, I live here. You think because you call yourself chinawhite you know more whatever.

You own no money, your probaly in china with a economy tourist package in some cheap remote area of china. Thats why your stagger when people ask for details. No location, no address and not even a name for the area you live in. FAKE

Right, so I guess these poor areas have broadband in internet access all over the place As I said ask a mod for my IP, I'm sure they have a log of it going back as far as I've been living in CHina and will continue to do so. Guangdong is actually the richest province in China.

"""The poverty in China is in evidence all ove the place, 3rd world type stuff. """"

Yeah anymore BS

Precisely what China is a land of contrasts, you can see the wealthy and extremely poor in any part of CHina country or rural. Maybe if yoiu'd actually been here you'd realise that.

Obviously you don't think much of your " country " - which is why I doubt you hvae any links to the PRC at all

My passport says otherwise


LOL nice picture which absolutely proves nothing, those pictures could have come from anywhere and could be anyones passport. LOL, some proof.

Why would i lie to further my case?. I dont change third world to first world then back again. I know what china is like, im not going to say that the cities are poor their not. Just like i wont say the villages and towns are rich, because their not.

LOL right, so everyone in the cities are wealthy and everyone in teh country is poor. I suggest you think next time before you write stupid statements.

I'll be there in november and back again in august the next year. Whenever you feel like telling me this fantasy place you live in U2U and i'll be there.

Sure you can come, you wouldn't get in though. It's north of Dongguan near Zeng Chen. As for that I'm not stupid enough to post any more peronal information on the net unlike some. Only an idiot would post personal inforamtion as an act of bravado. If you had alittle more life experience, you'd realise this.

And when im there in november i'll be posting photos of my apartments and factories. Im dead serious about everything

LMAO, this is really funny. You do that, whilst your at it, to prove it you should also post the deeds to teh properties, anyone can take pictures of buildings

Someone who has been to hong kong or shengzhen wouldn't say that about any known location in guandong

LOL right, we are talking about Southern CHina specifically Guangdong province and yes I am correct. You chose 2 small places out of a province of 100 million people, LOL. As usual you are wrong. And yes many people in HK speak Mandarn as well as English ... so what

BTW, you can't even spell Guangdong correctly Gee, you must really know what you're talking about.

Yeah in your "factory", hardly represents any type of chinese that could speak about average conditions. You clain to know the pulse of chinese people even though the chinese you know are imports to your village

LOL you just keep on proving me correct. Yes precisley why they come from all over China, there are a wide cross section of CHinese society. Not only that there are people here from Taiwan.

I must say this banter is a waste of time. I've said my piece and wish no further contact. No doubt you'll come back with some lamo reply, but I can't be bothered anymore.



[edit on 6-7-2006 by rogue1]

Umm… Chinawhite do you know what jamming is? I assume you do, as such it is more effective than an F-15 with an anti-sat missile.

Originally posted by chinawhite
Most likey yes considering they will be called to launch the first wave of attacks on the taiwanese. Like i said before, there are two crews for each missile and they will be waiting for the order to attack.

12 on 12 off? No offence mate but 6 on 12 off is tiring and frankly 12 on 12 off is going to SERIOSLY screw up your crews.

Or when a carrier is approaching near the range of the missiles than they will be prepared in 15 minutes and wait for the carrier to come

But how do you even know if it IS one?

Coming from you or coming from someone which is inportant?

People learn from mistakes, the USN may be a bit gun ho but they are switched on.

Considering the US might take part in the battle instead of actually taking part. I like the expressing, no doubt. I have a a lot of doubts about your statment

What are you on about? Taking part instead of taking part?

Like how?

Like that nice missile and satalite program I showed you.

China just recently launched a SAR radar in april and has the capability to lanch more satillite if need be. When a satillite dies out on you, you launch another to re-place it. The satillites have dual purposes, civillan and military

A missile costs less than a satalite, period.

Proof that they are in service, and has a quantity of them located anywhere?

Global strike...lol. So they deploy this "quantity" of missiles around the world with modifed F-15s ONLY located in the US continent able to fly or unable considering the program had been terminated 18 years before or two decades

The US can probably produce these missiles as fast as the PRC can produce replacement satalites, mabye even faster.
There where 15 made, 6 flight tested , that leaves another 9 unacounted for.

By the time the US approchs taiwan after taking out every single possible threat to a carrier than the war would ahve already been lost

So confident that you will win the wars in hours not weeks?

- The aircraft needs to be modifed for a ASAT missile. Rewiring and fitting different electic gear. So that means any global reach the F-15 has, or planes in other bases need to be re-wired extensivly to fire a ASAT missile

And you think that the USAF cant do this?

- The other planes which have already been re-wired were might have been mothballed or discarded considering the gap of almost twenty years since the program and funding were terminated.

"Might"?

- The planes have not been maintaied or if mothballed would need to be checked to see if their still airworthly (if their airworthly). Then shipped to a continent which the satillite passes over.

Does it takes weeks to fly aircraft over?

- The twenty year gap also leaves a twenty year gap between trained personal which will be able to travel 80,000 feet and do a satillite intercept

I suspect the USAF still does this training since the USAF has stated that the F-22 raptor can outclimb the USAF.

- Only one test of the ASAT has ever been conducted, which means it may or may not fail when it intercepts. And dont even tell me it will work one hundred percent with only one test firing

Well can you tell me that the PLA has tested its ballistic missiles against carriers to make it 100 percent effective?
The USAF has a kinetic satalite weapon in production at this moment and 3 prototypes have been made and are in storage at boeing.

They will be landing on the west side of taiwan island and possibly in the southern beaches considering the tropp concentration in taipei in the north. This leaves any US aircraft having to travel though a battle to actuall intervene in the actual fight. Or is the US carrier just going to travel there to protect itself and not to partake in the battle

And you think that the PLAN can reach the island intact?

PLAN landing forces will have the backing of the PLAN navy

You mean the "navy" that has "brown water" capability.

and at least 10 mobile destroyers with decent SAM cover and countless other ships with shorter range SAMs.

And you think the USN will not engage in ship to ship combat?

But considering the war will be fought on the terms of the PLA that means that any attacking force will need to get close to the PLA land based SAMs

Will it? I doubt it, an army cant win a war if theres water in the way.
You need a navy and an airforce to win, germany thought your way in 1940 , it never worked and I doubt it will now.

Refer to the article

I doubt he would leave them to rot, they are probably being kept and the plans still on file.

And any other ship in a carrier fleet even comes near the size of a carrier?

At several hundred miles the size of ships varies, can you tell the size of a ship effectively if there are many ships around it?

. Thats just like a bomber and fighter on radar,

Yeah hence why they dont know until they get visual contact.

Also it can be confirmed with satillites buzzing around taking live shots with its CCD cameras

Yes these magic satalites taht will remain active and taking pictures...

I was talking about the carrier

No you werent you said : "Look at the misile it has fins" every missile has limits it cant move too fast or it breaks apart.

Traveling at Mach (6.5?) you make just the smallest change and you will have changed you course dramticly. Once the carrier makes a change, it will be registered and move its fins to change its course

Yes at the carriers can travel at what ? 40 plus knots at "oh #" speed.
Even if the missile changes course it wil take increased stress and be very hard to hit the carrier with a claymore.

mod edit: fixed broken quote tag

[edit on 2006/7/8 by Hellmutt]

There is no evidence that in the history of modern warfare a ballistic missile can or has hit a moving target, so the answer to the original question is NO.

Nevermind the science of trajectory and manueverability for ballistic missiles, of which is extreamly complex and takes considerable time to do, the basic edition of a functional radar homing system to an ICBM that is able to locate targets at hundreds of miles over the earth and potentially thousands of miles from a target is a good example of how it is science fiction more than science.

China is having problems with the complexity of their new surface ships and submarines, to the point they have slowed production of new ships down intentionally, and now they can invent the 5000km bullet with pinpoint guidence accuracy?

Uh, no.

dont you get hull ionization on certain kinds of re entry vehicles..like the space shuttle. This gives you periods of total communications black outs..no info in and no info out... How do you update your navigation system to follow a target you are trying to track.??


ICBM's are re entry vehicles are they not..??


Just a idea to consider..
Orangetom

Where is your claim that Hai Fong is a taiwanese name?. Dropped that line pretty quick

Originally posted by rogue1
I do. A debate lol, all you do is scream.

You claim heaps of things but never prove any of them. You claim to have money but stagger for details or even a map of the area you live in. You claim to know mroe about china than me and you wont even debate it.

You woke up at 6 in the morning just to reply to my post before and now you claim you dont you have time to reply. Very funny

Right, so I guess these poor areas have broadband in internet access all over the place

Whats the big deal with broadband?. I've been paying for my own connection for a few years now. Get a standard phone line and change the signals at the phone exchange. Having broadband is not a sign of having wealth, even a very poor place which has a fixed phone like can get DSL installed

China will pass US in Broadband Lines by late 2006

Link

And your not the only which has broadband or even the lucky few

...Go to chinas thousands of internet cafes and see if anyone will play a RPG over a dial-up connection. The phone line is subsidized by the government because its governemnt owned which makes having internet

LOL nice picture which absolutely proves nothing, those pictures could have come from anywhere and could be anyones passport. LOL, some proof.

Some proof???. LOL LOL LOL

Your now asking me for proof. LOL.

What do you want me to do?

Heres the stamps from my '99 trip

LOL right, so everyone in the cities are wealthy and everyone in teh country is poor.

No, I said the country side is poor and the urban areas are rich. Standard interuptation of chinese behaviour. You even check where the secret villas are for chinese celebrities and their located in urban areas. There has not been that development of status and privacy yet in china. There only status from living in the richest areas of china or the most expensive area. If you told someone your rich from the countryside they will laugh at you

Sure you can come, you wouldn't get in though. It's north of Dongguan near Zeng Chen.

LoL.

I want a map to that Hai Fong even exists as a place not vague names of places. I've been to Dong guan on my way to putian because there are no direct flights. In '99 it wouldn't be considered wealthy but only a spill off of hong kong

Only an idiot would post personal inforamtion as an act of bravado. If you had alittle more life experience, you'd realise this.

Yeah, what will you do to me?. LoL . Im not paranoid.

You do that, whilst your at it, to prove it you should also post the deeds to teh properties

It'll all be organized when i get there. Maybe you like to provide some proof since the proof is one sided

And yes many people in HK speak Mandarn as well as English ... so what

What do you consider many. I should pull random 10 people off the street and ask if they speak english?

you can't even spell Guangdong correctly

Gee, you must really know what you're talking about.

I touch type, and dont have time to re-scan for spelling mistakes. Last time you also mentioned my spelling for some reason and i gave you the same explanation. Maybe you should spell the same place with the same name?

Hai Fong or was it Hai Phong

No doubt you'll come back with some lamo reply, but I can't be bothered anymore.

a easy way to get out without looking like you gave up

Rouge1, I really knew you were liaring from the start after i saw your picture. I dont want to embarrass you but you were the one that brought up the talk of money



[edit on 7-7-2006 by chinawhite]

These little quotes suit your style of posting aye?

Originally posted by devilwasp
12 on 12 off? No offence mate but 6 on 12 off is tiring and frankly 12 on 12 off is going to SERIOSLY screw up your crews.

I get 7 hours sleep a day, your seriously telling me that someone couldn't handle 12/12?. Ive been doing this for over half a year since i started year 11. I dont seem to see any problem with these type of hours

But how do you even know if it IS one?

How you said before. The bigger "beep" on the radar

People learn from mistakes, the USN may be a bit gun ho but they are switched on.

They didn't make any mistakes in 1996. What are you talking about?

What are you on about? Taking part instead of taking part?

It means that its not a definate answer if they will actually be involved in a shooting war

A missile costs less than a satalite, period.

? So?

The US can probably produce these missiles as fast as the PRC can produce replacement satalites, mabye even faster.

Another fantasy. Your telling me it will take less than a week to rpoduce a ASAT missile even though it was produced almost 2 decades ago and was only in a prototype stage and never mass produced?

Please......

There where 15 made, 6 flight tested , that leaves another 9 unacounted for.

Only one actual test on a satillite. And you could prove that those 9 unaccounted for missiles have been stored in a ready to use position or even F-15 capable of lanuching the missiles. Since they need to be modified for ASAT roles that leaves you with no planes to lanuch them

So confident that you will win the wars in hours not weeks?

By the time the PLA gets a beach head on taiwan than the war will be over. Even the taiwanese acknowledge this fact. Their own stocks of Aim-12 is only meant to last a few days

And you think that the USAF cant do this?

Of course they could do that. But the question is, in a week

"Might"?

I wouldn't think your leave 20 F-15s lying around with a program with no funding to maintain the planes do you.

I suspect the USAF still does this training since the USAF has stated that the F-22 raptor can outclimb the USAF.

Suspect?. Should i give you the benifit of the doubt or ask for a source or even something that suggest that?

Well can you tell me that the PLA has tested its ballistic missiles against carriers to make it 100 percent effective?

When you lanuch 10 missiles within a 3~5km radius your bound to have hit something considering your warhead has an area effect weapon

The USAF has a kinetic satalite weapon in production at this moment and 3 prototypes have been made and are in storage at boeing.

Link?

You mean the "navy" that has "brown water" capability.

Yes, perfect for littoral warfare in the TAIWAN STRAIT

And you think the USN will not engage in ship to ship combat?

No, the PLA wouldn't engage in ship to ship contact with a carrier in place

Will it? I doubt it, an army cant win a war if theres water in the way.

Thats why you have an airforce and a navy

I doubt he would leave them to rot, they are probably being kept and the plans still on file.

LoL, another fantasy. Remember he only became president after two other people

can you tell the size of a ship effectively if there are many ships around it?

you tell me, you seem to have sat out a few radar exchanges from your comments

Yeah hence why they dont know until they get visual contact.

So any BVR combat cant be confirmed. I might as well wipe out the USAF record because it could have been a flock of birds they were shooting at

Yes these magic satalites taht will remain active and taking pictures.

No magic, they will be there taking shots whilst the US sits there trying to fit ASAT missiles that might be broken

No you werent you said

I WAS, you might have been thinking about something else

very hard to hit the carrier with a claymore.

A claymore?

Originally posted by darksidedThere is no evidence that in the history of modern warfare a ballistic missile can or has hit a moving target, so the answer to the original question is NO.

Yes but a missile has been proven to hit a target within 50m of the intended place which makes a anti-carrier ballistic missile possible. Trying to sink a carrier alone with one hit is quite stupid considering all the armour and watertight compartments a carrier has like orangetom said. What the internet forums was saying was a large cluster bomb warhead to hit a target within a CEP of 50m

Considering that a cluster bomb would have a impact radius of over 50m2. That would mean the missile would have to land near the carrier in order to release and hopefully mission kill the carrier.

China is having problems with the complexity of their new surface ships and submarines, to the point they have slowed production of new ships down

Ships and submarines use a large amount of different systems while the ballistic missile i am talking about uses system which were already fielded by the PLA

Also, the PLAN had built a new test ship and it would seem they have things planned for the new fleet instead of building a class which only rivials current american ships

Originally posted by chinawhite
These little quotes suit your style of posting aye?

Like studying, break it up into small bits and its easier.

I get 7 hours sleep a day, your seriously telling me that someone couldn't handle 12/12?

No they can handle it just that its tiring as hell and damm hard.
I was working 4 hours on watch 8 hours off watches just last month and its hard to do, 12 hours of constant working is hard no matter what your doing.
12 hours off is good because it allows you to have 2 hours off for eating and sleeping and mabye 7 and a half hours off for sleeping.
But 12 on 12 off is hard.

. Ive been doing this for over half a year since i started year 11. I dont seem to see any problem with these type of hours

Mate I used to live on less than that in school , its not hard in school. Imagine what the guys on watch have to do? Wait and preapre constantly.

How you said before. The bigger "beep" on the radar

So your going to just fire on the biggest blip on a radar?
Thats going to look good when you waste a crusie liner.

They didn't make any mistakes in 1996. What are you talking about?

It means that its not a definate answer if they will actually be involved in a shooting war

Whether or not the US will get involved depends on when china attacks and whos in the white house.

? So?

Quicker to build a missile and refit an F-15 than rebuild a satalite and get it into orbit.

Another fantasy. Your telling me it will take less than a week to rpoduce a ASAT missile even though it was produced almost 2 decades ago and was only in a prototype stage and never mass produced?

And your telling me the PRC can produce satalites in less than a week?
As you said "Another fantasy"
The plans are probably still in archive, what does it take to go down and place a work order in for one?

Only one actual test on a satillite.

So?

And you could prove that those 9 unaccounted for missiles have been stored in a ready to use position or even F-15 capable of lanuching the missiles.

No but neither can you disprove it.

Since they need to be modified for ASAT roles that leaves you with no planes to lanuch them

Not really, the plane needs to be modified but if the USAF has done it once they can do it again.

By the time the PLA gets a beach head on taiwan than the war will be over. Even the taiwanese acknowledge this fact. Their own stocks of Aim-12 is only meant to last a few days

You speak as if the PLAN has limitless number of ships to transport a force, it doesnt take much to sink a transport ship.

Of course they could do that. But the question is, in a week

Do you think the PLAN can get a force across the water in a week with out being destroyed?

I wouldn't think your leave 20 F-15s lying around with a program with no funding to maintain the planes do you.

Probably not no but they might have but we are speculating.

Suspect?. Should i give you the benifit of the doubt or ask for a source or even something that suggest that?

The US conducts steep climb tests all the time, the F-22 raptor had a test that proved it could outclimb the F-15. All that is required for the missile to fire is to be high enough in a steep climb.
Oh and thats in the orginial link I gave you.

When you lanuch 10 missiles within a 3~5km radius your bound to have hit something considering your warhead has an area effect weapon

If they work that is.

Link?

Not the original source I read but covers same subject:
www.fas.org...

Yes, perfect for littoral warfare in the TAIWAN STRAIT

Not if those ships get sunk by air launched anti ship missiles, which can be fired at quite a distance by the way.

No, the PLA wouldn't engage in ship to ship contact with a carrier in place

So your ships are going to do what?

Thats why you have an airforce and a navy

Yes and do you think chinas navy can make it across the straight and survive?

LoL, another fantasy. Remember he only became president after two other people

Yes and do you think the last 2 presidents would have left them to rot away with those nice ruskies making thier own project?

you tell me, you seem to have sat out a few radar exchanges from your comments

I have, used the radar a few times onboard but frankly not the same class as military ones.
Size is difficult to tell esspecially at long range since efficiency decreases with range.

So any BVR combat cant be confirmed.

Not in saying I know that I shot down THAT plane.

I might as well wipe out the USAF record because it could have been a flock of birds they were shooting at

Well most birds dont travel at mach 1-2 now do they ?

No magic, they will be there taking shots whilst the US sits there trying to fit ASAT missiles that might be broken

Or testing its laser weaponry which it already has...or did you forget that boing 747 experiment?

I WAS, you might have been thinking about something else

Whatever.

A claymore?

Claymore style weapon I mean.

mod edit: fixed broken quote tag.

[edit on 2006/7/8 by Hellmutt]

Originally posted by Chinawhite
Yes but a missile has been proven to hit a target within 50m of the intended place which makes a anti-carrier ballistic missile possible.

Yes but the target was not moving as such it does not prove that hitting a carrier (a moving target) with that same missile is possible.

Originally posted by chinawhite
Where is your claim that Hai Fong is a taiwanese name?. Dropped that line pretty quick

Erm, it is Taiwanese ....

You claim heaps of things but never prove any of them. You claim to have money but stagger for details or even a map of the area you live in. You claim to know mroe about china than me and you wont even debate it.

Debate what ? How many factories and blocks of units you "claim" your rich uncle owns LMAO - yeah right. Unfortunately I've succumbed t this childish banter with you, I wouldn't waste my time with a debate.

You woke up at 6 in the morning just to reply to my post before and now you claim you dont you have time to reply. Very funny

LOL, believe me you're not important in my life at all. As a amtter of fact I got up before 6 here, which would be 8am AEST. I just went to my ATS saw your crap at teh top and posted then went to work. LOL, got up at 6 to reply to you LMAO....this really is hilarious.

Get a standard phone line and change the signals at the phone exchange. Having broadband is not a sign of having wealth, even a very poor place which has a fixed phone like can get DSL installed

MOst places don't use phnelines. most people use mobiles.

...Go to chinas thousands of internet cafes and see if anyone will play a RPG over a dial-up connection. The phone line is subsidized by the government because its governemnt owned which makes having internet

Not that it really matters but dial up is not broadband, typical of your inconsistancies.

Some proof???. LOL LOL LOL

Your now asking me for proof. LOL.

What do you want me to do?

Me no, you posted some passport cover as proof, I said it was no, that ppicture could hvae come from anywhere as the other one you put up.

Heres the stamps from my '99 trip

LMAO, right so the last time you went to CHina was 7 years ago, you were what 9 years old. Yeah you must really know alot about the place. How long did you saty there for a week

No, I said the country side is poor and the urban areas are rich. Standard interuptation of chinese behaviour. You even check where the secret villas are for chinese celebrities and their located in urban areas.

LOL, once again you chop and change, you said there was no third world scenes int eh cities, I can assure yu there are More BS.

I want a map to that Hai Fong even exists as a place not vague names of places. I've been to Dong guan on my way to putian because there are no direct flights. In '99 it wouldn't be considered wealthy but only a spill off of hong kong

Just shows how littel idea you hvae. you obviously know nothing.

Yeah, what will you do to me?. LoL . Im not paranoid.

No just stupid, no more needed to be said.

It'll all be organized when i get there. Maybe you like to provide some proof since the proof is one sided

LOL, this is really sad. So what your going to post deeds of these imaginary properties of yours, HAHA. And you have provided no proof of anything as usual. I'm an adult, I'm not going to engage in a "foot" measuring contest with some 16 year old who has clearly lost the plot and is desperate to prove himself.

What do you consider many. I should pull random 10 people off the street and ask if they speak english?

And ask them if they speak MAndarin as you claim nobody does, which was your original statement or are you going to try and gloss over that as well hahaha.

you can't even spell Guangdong correctly

Gee, you must really know what you're talking about.

I touch type, and dont have time to re-scan for spelling mistakes. Last time you also mentioned my spelling for some reason and i gave you the same explanation. Maybe you should spell the same place with the same name?

BS LOL yeah right of course. Gotta love how you backpedal. I remember in another thread how you were claiming all these BS facts about aerodynamics. I told you you were wrong post after post. Tehn other members said you were completely 100% wrong. What do you do, you back pedal ( as usual ) and claimed that you used the wrong equations. We all found that quite funny. Especailly since the equations you calmined to have used were quite obviouly not for plane aerodynamics, in fcat you'd have to be stupid to have even thought that.

Rouge1, I really knew you were liaring from the start after i saw your picture. I dont want to embarrass you but you were the one that brought up the talk of money

Got no idea what you're talking about. What about my picture ? Come on I'd like to see an explanation for this bizarre comment. Also please don't post a pic of yourself, I want to keep my computer screen from cracking also, we don't want to scare the women off

PS.I'm curious what does maney have to do with my picture ?


[edit on 7-7-2006 by rogue1]

mod edit: fixed broken quote tag.

[edit on 2006/7/8 by Hellmutt]

Heres some quotes from you

"""#1No doubt you'll come back with some lamo reply, but I can't be bothered anymore. """

""""#2 OK enough. This conversation is a waste of time.""""""

And your back again?

Reminds me of the angry dog that thinks they were smart by not eating the food. Come back in the morning the food is all gone. Courtesy of a finnish fellow

Originally posted by rogue1
Erm, it is Taiwanese ....

REPEAT

LOLOLOLOLOLOL

I knew you would try to pass something so stupid off. What a liar

There is no taiwanese pinyin. Its impossible to convert min nan hua into a pinyin system becauses its based on pitches not pronunciation or letters like english. Taiwan uses mandarin which does not have Fong in it. Omg, i cant believe you fell for this one

You wondered why i kept repeating it.

Debate what ?

""Taiwan and China will reunify, with a system like HK"""

For the forth time.

LOL, believe me you're not important in my life at all

Quote from yourself
"""#1No doubt you'll come back with some lamo reply, but I can't be bothered anymore. """

""""#2 OK enough. This conversation is a waste of time.""""""

Seems like you just come back and back

MOst places don't use phnelines. most people use mobiles.

The number of chinese fixed lines is 311.756 million. Everyone one of them can get DSL installed on their phones lines. stating that you are rich because you have a broadband connection is a straw man considering that china nearly has as much broadband users as the US

And most people do you moblie phones but no one would do without a fixed line because it provides other benifits which moblie phones wouldn't provide

Not that it really matters but dial up is not broadband,

I NEVER said it was. I said no one would play on line games with a dial-up connection. Why do you try and put words into peoples mouths?

picture could hvae come from anywhere as the other one you put up.

Not a old issue PRC passport which could only have come from a eariler period like say 1991. What do you want me to do with my passport?.

LMAO, right so the last time you went to CHina was 7 years ago

No, That was the only visa which didn't have my address stamped all over it because we brought extra luggage space. The last trip was in '03.

Also the visa lasted for 60 days or two months for the one in '99. It was october december. The only reason i didn't stay for three months was because i would have got to get a year pass, but since that required a lot more paperwork we didn't stay that long

you said there was no third world scenes int eh cities, I can assure yu there are

In your city/town/poor area?

Just shows how littel idea you hvae. you obviously know nothing.

Exactly my point. You have shown absolutly nothing to back up anything you claim to have, claim to live or claim to be running. You cannot even get a name write and come up wiht two different types of spelling for this wonderful place you claim to live in.

you simply have no idea of chinese people. You claim to speak to the average chinese person but you stagger when asked to test you chinese. I already know you dont know chinese and know you wouldn't know what their thinking. Yeah all this talk about knowing more about china than me even though you only been to one place in china, and that palce happens to be one of the most poorest places you can go from your accounts.

I always keep in contact with my family and i can actually communicate with them in CHINESE. You been to china maybe twice and think you understand chinese people or know who they are. You damn tourist are so ignorant

So what your going to post deeds of these imaginary properties of yours, HAHA. And you have provided no proof of anything as usual.

Your 18 maybe 20 years old?.

One someone says they are willing to provide proof of his houses though deeds, is it your usual reaction to belittle yourself?. Unlike you i actually own houses my family are actually very wealthy. I imagine your lifestyle is the equivalent to a salvo bum in australia and your on a economic toursit package to the poorest areas of china

And i'll quote you here
"""LOL, some proof.""

Here are somemore you can back up

REPEAT

Your a funny man

80,000 workers, Need two hands to count the number of houses you have and someone met a "taiwanese industrialist" who controls a good deal of the shoe market. Also your part of the third world scene

This is a quote from a few pages back
'''Well I mst work in a different China than you do, because I and the 13 000 other people who work in teh ompany here all pay tax. '''

Now 80,000 people?

And ask them if they speak MAndarin as you claim nobody does

Are you posting from a lack of sleep?

I claim most people in guangdong dont speak madarin. I thought you would have picked up the actual meaning of the post because it refers to the language most people use at home. And when you try to quote someone, use their actual quote instead of from memory because, as you saw, it has slipped youe memory and you quoted the wrong person

Ok now a test, Go to Shenzhen and guangzhou or hong kong and see what language they talk to each other in in the markets or shopping centres. I know from personal experience that their madarin is extremly poor because of the inproper pitchs used when talking cantonese

Gotta love how you backpedal.

And how simple would it have been to search up the name and see if i spelt it wrong?. Your logic seems to defy yourself since it was one letter which was missing and that happens most times when you type and more so when you touch type.

Your the same person that accused me of not living in australia because i spelt something wrong and i told you, you weren't my english teacher. Im sorry but i dont have time to wake up in the morning to re-check for any spelling mistakes

I remember in another thread how you were claiming all these BS facts about aerodynamics. I told you you were wrong post after post.

No, i was thinking about the amount of the air going though the engine which was my main point but instead you were confusing it by talking about aircraft lift. Thats why we ended up talking for it for three post collectivly. I was using a different equation to figure the airflow around the plane whilst you were re-peating something that i didn't bother to read. Only when i double checked my equation i found out i was using the wrong one and then i saw ignorant apes post

Also please don't post a pic of yourself, I want to keep my computer screen from cracking also, we don't want to scare the women off

LOLOLOLOL


Why dont you come meet me?. You know how often i go out to the city????. I think my screen got a crack after viewing your picture. Lucky i deleted that and filed it in some website. now i only have to see your ugly mug until i bring it out myself. You look like a little whimmy white guy

I'm curious what does maney have to do with my picture ?

Your cheap resturant. Real five star..... Your clothing is also five star

Originally posted by chinawhite
Yeah all this talk about knowing more about china than me even though you only been to one place in china, and that palce happens to be one of the most poorest places you can go from your accounts.

Typical, completely misrepresent what I sau, well I guess people ar eused to that from you.

Unlike you i actually own houses my family are actually very wealthy. I imagine your lifestyle is the equivalent to a salvo bum in australia and your on a economic toursit package to the poorest areas of china

Oh right so you own houses now, you just seem to get more and more grandiouse. Erm pull the other one, hahaha. You know Lego houses don't #.

80,000 workers, Need two hands to count the number of houses you have and someone met a "taiwanese industrialist" who controls a good deal of the shoe market. Also your part of the third world scene

This is a quote from a few pages back
'''Well I mst work in a different China than you do, because I and the 13 000 other people who work in teh ompany here all pay tax. '''

You see once again you completely misrtepresent on purpose what I said, the factory has 13 000 people th company runs many facotires that employ about 80 000. Which I've already stated

I claim most people in guangdong dont speak madarin. I thought you would have picked up the actual meaning of the post because it refers to the language most people use at home.

ANy you're wrong simple as that.

Ok now a test, Go to Shenzhen and guangzhou or hong kong and see what language they talk to each other in in the markets or shopping centres. I know from personal experience that their madarin is extremly poor because of the inproper pitchs used when talking cantonese

Oh so they speak MAndarin now backpedal as usual.

No, i was thinking about the amount of the air going though the engine which was my main point but instead you were confusing it by talking about aircraft lift. Thats why we ended up talking for it for three post collectivly. I was using a different equation to figure the airflow around the plane whilst you were re-peating something that i didn't bother to read.

LOL right whatever you reckon lMOA. I can always count on your posts to majke me laugh at least oince.

Your cheap resturant. Real five star..... Your clothing is also five star

AHem, when I go to a country I like to immerse myself in the local culture. That was a reastaurant in Soho in HK. Obviously you're no fashion expert either In your u2u you said your family shops at the Salvation Army, I'd hard;y be talking about clothes if I were you.

Look, no offense to either of you guys but you two argue about the same off topic thing over and over again in multiple threads, I don't think whether they speak Mandarin or not has much to do with ballistic missiles hitting carries. So please, whatever you two are arguing about can you take it somewhere else? Thank you.

Can you please not break every sentence up and answer from sentence to sentence?

Seriously, try and group similar topics together and answer them in one line instead of trying to write sentence for sentence. You style of posting is the equalvant to slugging it out, theres no information passed just a bunch of words

Originally posted by devilwasp
Like studying, break it up into small bits and its easier. Wait and preapre constantly.

How is being up for 17 hours a day hard to do. You claimed it would be extremly tiring to do but i know a whole bunch of people that have been doing it since they were in high school.

I dont see how waiting for orders would be any different to what i do. The standard sleeping hours is 8. I dont see your point about being tried since they wouldn't be hualing heavy weight around all day

Also i wait and prepare constantly for bell times. I dont think people would just sit there and do nothing just to pass the time

There are a few units kept on high alert, the units that are near the taiwan strait are the ones that are on alert whilst the other units are not keep on 24 hour alert and they would be moving around and changing roles since they are not fixed sites but mobile TEL lanuchers which makes finding the missiles a lot harder and allows the crews some rest

Thats going to look good when you waste a crusie liner.

Which cruise liner goes at 30 knots?

It wouldn't be like that since the rough co-ordinates will already be known from the fact that the US carrier would be leaving from a nearby asian country like japan which means their rough location is know. Also you will not just fire when you see that beep on the radar. Use ELINT or radar the signals they are emitting.

The carrier will also been known after a few of their planes start making bombing rounds at the chinese fleet which is the intended target. I would find it hard to imagine a plane mistaking a carrier for a destroyer or a anti-ship missile for a destroyer

And your telling me the PRC can produce satalites in less than a week?

No, Im saying that the US would have to bring down the satillite before the PLA gets a foothold on the island since the war will already be lost if they have. And if the war is lost the US wouldn't make all the effort to get into a nuclear war with china over taiwan

Also you making all these concessions for a US carrier. It sounds more like a white elephant if its going to prohibit your actions if it needs more support than it provides to the fleet. Having to take out the satillites then wait until the submarines destory try and destroy chinas fleet than the carrier will arrive after the shooting war is over. Maybe thats why china is making balllistic missiles capable of hitting the US, as per your original question

So?, No but neither can you disprove it.

Because one test prototype does not prove its effectivness. I thought you would have know by now. You need to verify its effectiness. Also the test was againest a satillite whos path was already know and timed to hit the area where the satillite will be. Now you will probaly say the US has a database of PLA satillites in orbit aye?

Also, i do not need to do anything. The burden of proof lays on you since you are making the claim. That means your making the claim that it is in service. Because their are no reports stating their in service that means you will have to bring the source

Not really, the plane needs to be modified but if the USAF has done it once they can do it again.

They modifed a maximum of 8 planes before 1988. I wonder if the people who modifed them are still alive or even the technology to put them into the planes are still aviable considering that the year was before pentium and other compaines making personal computers became widespread

Also they modifled prototype of the planes and weren't put into active service. Its just like saying i built one type of car and i am meant to build the same type two decades later without the people i first built them with

You speak as if the PLAN has limitless number of ships to transport a force

Not limited but a massive amount of commerical ships that could be used oncce the intial beachhead is won which would mean the taiwanese would be concentrating on the beach head instead of the trasport ships which would follow after. And the taiwanese dont have enough anti-ship missiles for the number of ships in the PLA navy. Like you have said before, they might hit a wooden fishing ship instead of a PLA destroyer because they dont know

Also if you would like you can check up on the number of vessels registered in china. And i doubt that any commerical vessels would be making exports while a war was being fought so that would leave a number of them avaiblefor use in a cross strait invasion

Probably not no but they might have but we are speculating.

No, After twenty years without funding the planes would not be safe to fly if they were being kept in storage. Even a plane which was kept in storage needs a overhual to make sure the plane still flys. Also when you have no plane you have no flight which makes using them impossible before the war even finishes. And it doesn't takes than a week to overhual a plane. Their is more man hours per combat sortie than the other way around so its safe to assume that the planes would need a massive overhaul

And we are not speculating, you are speculating. Theirs only some things we dont have to use logic for and one of them is to keep perfectly good planes in storage to a program whos funds have run out

The US conducts steep climb tests all the time

A test is a test. And training is training. A pilot needs to be proficent in that style and their plane. It doesn't matter if F-22 pilots fly to 80,000 feet they are not F-15 pilots and need to re-train for the F-15 if they were F-15 pilots originally. That fact of the matter is, only one pilot has ever hit a target in space with a ASAT weapon and nothing changes that. Also i would doubt that a pilot will regulary do Anti-satellite runs with any plane in the US.

By your logic, i could say that a chinese MiG-21 pilot used a R-77 and killed a F-15 once. Does that mean they could do it all the time or does that mean it was a flute and they still need to do extensive test to make sure it actually works

If they work that is.

Why wouldn't they? Chinese missile forces have been seen regulary practising with their missiles and there are missile drills in every wargame the PLA stages. The missiles have seen active service and is a proven design. One thing i would doubt more is a ASAT weapon which had only one actual satillite kill and that was the only test that were done

The 2nd artillery in china is equal in importance to any other force and gets a very fair share of the budget. It also has control over the satillite launchs pads and a lot of other services which were used in the ShengZhou space launchs. Also if you want to check chinas space record, it hasn't had any accidents since '96 or before that

Not the original source I read but covers same subject:
www.fas.org...

The site doesn't tell me anything... It just mentions test that might be done in these years and plans for more but doesn't tell me any ability to do so

So your ships are going to do what?

Protecting the transport fleet with its SAM missiles and providing anti-ship warfare againest the taiwanese fleet of 4 kid class and ASW capabbilities.

Yes and do you think the last 2 presidents would have left them to rot away with those nice ruskies making thier own project?

The russians were in economic troubles and asking for american aid. No way would they have money to make ASAT weapons. Also it was after the cold war when the americans did scale down their military budget

You might like to read this

Also if you want to believe that america has a whole array of ASAT weapons and i'll assume that same for the chinese forces because the US has been accusing them of it for a long time already.

So if the US can take out chinas satillites than i will assume china can take out americans satillites. What do you think about that

U.S. Defense Report: China Working on Anti-Satellite Systems
China's Space Capabilities and the Strategic Logic of Anti-Satellite Weapons
China anti-satellite development continuing
Chinese Anti-Satellite [ASAT] Capabilities
China Eyes Anti-Satellite System
China working on anti-satellite systems
China: Military Programs

Well most birds dont travel at mach 1-2 now do they ?

Either does commerical shipping. To launch a plane it would need to go at 30 knots and i doubt any ferry would be travelling that fast

[edit on 7-7-2006 by chinawhite]