Viva Testosterone! The male revolution!

Originally posted by think2much
and again-you are thinking now what you do-is who you are-thus it is manly=you are a real man...but for various reasons you are not the norm so not part of the problem....well for at least 8 months of the year you aren't...for those other four months you still could be perpetuating a failed dynamic just the same...especially if you value only what you do (atypically hard manly work-which I completely respect BTW)as defining WHo you are-and what you have to offer a woman.

No no no... What I am trying to say is that I don't live in the norm. So when I am ashore I have no clue "how I should be acting" to perpetuate this norm that you speak of. I find it actually helps me meet women... Not the type I would ever settle down with mind you... Because I do act differently. I have a hard time talking about current events. i know nothing of what new movies are out, what's in, what's out, what's cool, what's not. SO I avoid those subjects and just talk about her. Thats usually what women want to talk about anyway, or so "I" think.

Originally posted by think2much
BTW-would you ever give up what you do for the *right* woman? One who accepted you for only 4months...but connected so well she/you fell in love and she was there 8 months later waiting for the next four months with you...you know what I'm saying?

Finding a woman like that would be... pardon the cliche... Like finding a needle in a haystack. But yes, I could easily get a shoreside job if I wanted to. Would take a hefty pay-cut though to do it. As far as me falling in love... I do that easily. I have a problem with it, that I will confess. Oh Sheng from Saipan... That Russian gal... I forget her name. Oh yeah... What's her face from Brazil!!! She was fun. That one belle from Germany!!!!!!!!!!!!! See what I am getting at? I am no saint. I believe I have morals but a man can only go so long staring at an ocean without... needing... The softness and sensitivity that being onboard a ship with 40 other men doesn't offer.

Originally posted by think2much
well maybe not to the extremes as other men do...but still where do you go to meet women, and what do you have to offer them. What do you present, and how do you present it. Chances are with only 4 months...you pretty much play the safe route of advertising what women are in the market for. Time isn't on your side afterall and so you're going to want to make the most of it...

You definitely do "think2much." Hehe... Yeah I guess I advertise my money. I do get payed pretty well for what I do. Excuse me for this shallow comment, but I find most women are a bit attracted to the color green. It shows I must be successful at something. Again, I would not do this if I was actually looking for a long term relationship.

Originally posted by think2much
...so...you play guitar? I mean what else do you guys do for 8 months when not working... and not busy throwing the less manly men overboard?

Nope.. can't play guitar at all... Some play guitar though, but mostly we work... Keeps you busy. Work 7 days a week 12 hours a day and when we have free time we drink, play cards, read, play unusual pranks on one another. Anything to keep the mind busy I guess. And again, I have yet to see anyone get thrown overboard on my ship. Although I have thought about it a few times... That bastard 3rd Engineer... Usually its the overly "manly" ones that have the problems. Go figure.

Originally posted by think2much
But seriously, the whole idea of what to wear...I know what you are saying but really...look at what real women look for in a man and it's masculinity displayed in a variety of ways...attitude, body, displayed sexuality...and how is it displayed ...well that is subjective-in the eye of the beholder...guitars...working under a car...loooking good in jeans...hmmm....you don't need a woman to tell you how to throw on a pair of jeans and a T shirt do you? [/quote

I agree with you entirely here. Basically, I think that if a man wants a woman and seriously thinks he can have that woman. He will get her. Period. Woman want confidence, yet understanding. Firmness, yet kindness. manliness, yet sensitivity. Intelligence, yet spontaneity. Gentleness, yet a man that can knock their socks off. Confuses me all to hell.

I think the key is the ability to adapt and be able to tell what the complex female mind wants at certain times. I don't even think women know what they want half the time.

I am simple. I like that.

Originally posted by dr_strangecraft

I think a lot of teenage girls have extremely low self-image.

To the point where they will let a boy literally do anything to them, as long as he pays some attention once in a while.

I'm talking most rank-n-file teenagers, not famous people. I've seen gaggles of teenage girls where, in their clique, the measure of success was how many men look at you, speak to you, stare, whistle, or try to cop a feel.

yes, thats it-the girls start early thinking all the have to offer and advertise is their sexuality...and for what...because they are falling prey to their own urges? No, falling prey to society and peers-the acceptance both of males and their peers...and there it begins, the idea of to "get" the guy is success...and how to "get" him is through sex...

...and eventually, the crowning achievement is to get the guy hook, line and sinker with a shake of her ass...so he will then work his ass off to give her all the materialism society tells her she wants and deserves for putting out to this man. So once she has him, she trains him how to behave in this society perpetuated way in case he doesn't know how to, she will quickly school him how he must now, dress, talk, behave work, and provide and perform for her ...or she will be gone with the better performer who puts his hand on that ass she was one shaking just for him...but now, still starving for approval...still she dresses to show off her sexuality, and success of his hard work alone quite often...and for what...she's got her man...why is she still advertising her sexuality...

because it's where he *worth* is based and she will even dress up and wear the right clothes for all-women get togethers...she will care how she looks when she is meeting girlfriends for lunch...she has to dress to impress, to show her success in life...materialsm, a man, and her attraction factor...all she knows as her worth

worst part of this I think, is when because of this thinking, they don't respect their own body and sexuality to have it develop to where they understand their own sexuality, appreciate it, or know how to completely let go and enjoy it...

what a shame

Originally posted by dr_strangecraft
Their whole goal is to be desirable. They measure self worth the same way as the working girls down on Bourbon street, by whether they get the man.

Men probably have a lot to do with setting up such a value system.

Absolutely, it is extremely male-perpetuated and peer driven by other females...if women are going to sell themselves through blatant sexual attraction, how else is any other woman going to compete with that, if that is what men automatically respond to...and ignore the others...

Men, be more discerning!

...even if sex is important to you, you cannot be so stupid to not know there are so many amazingly sexual women that can knock you over with more than their good looks, who don't advertise what they have to everyone, but with who they are and what they do have...reserved for the few because they are discerning...you get more than cheap easy sex and a woman nagging for behvior in return

instead you get mutually gratifying passionately deep desire and unrivaled sexual appetite in women who like sex as much, if not more than you, but refuse to advertise it like the women that merely use it as a tool...as means to an end...what fun is that?

Originally posted by dr_strangecraft
On the other hand, men have no idea what to look for in a woman. They just have an overwhelming itch in their pants, and they're looking to fix it. And the girlf that fixes fastest gets the crown. The trouble is, after about 2 weeks, the guy has absolutely no idea of how to proceed, except to fix the next itch he gets.

men need to be taught the difference between the women as advertisers, users, and women worth the discerning eye...women who don't sell themselves through their scociety norms of materialsm or sexuality...women who have have their own goals and interests outside of being a woman and in a relationship, and who do not expect anything of the man (at first) except he be a real man-and she respects him for this...

of course to find such a woman, to hook up with one... you need to be a real man! So start there...within yourself, within perceptions men, then behavior then perceptions of women, develop a discerning eye

Originally posted by dr_strangecraft
You know story of Faust. (snip) the guy gets his wish, gets the supermodel, and then slowly realizes that she's a total whorebot that doesn't do anything besides the horizontal rhumba. I'd write it so that if he leaves her, he's penniless as well. So he's trapped with someone he hates, because he thinks money IS happiness, and sex-on-tap IS success. Watch him take her shopping, while she complains constantly and blows money like it was a disease. Welcome to hell.

LMAO THAT is funny.

Originally posted by LostSailor
Because I do act differently. I have a hard time talking about current events. i know nothing of what new movies are out, what's in, what's out, what's cool, what's not. SO I avoid those subjects and just talk about her. Thats usually what women want to talk about anyway, or so "I" think.

I dare say I don't care how shy you once were, or how shallow you now are, you've got the right formula to attract women...the marketplace is FULL and overflowing with women selling their sexuality, and men looking to buy it for a night...problem is women are often tired of being used by the usual users...for lack of real men...so a little strange will do...you, my friend are the equivalent of a bit of strange don't you think?

...the guy who isn't all about current events/hype/sports or fashion...you are into talking all about her...interested in her...you would appear to be a *real* man by a gut level instinct to women because you wouldn't be wearing the usual facade that women know they are supposed to be attracted too...society says so...and so they are...but instead instinctually, when someone like you comes along and are not those things...not by being some sort of useless derelict, but by choice...voila magic formula...I know you aren't wanting for long...this is what more men need to be to some extent...not the societal norm...by choice...by self respect...

not suggsting everyone become merchant marines but you know what I'm saying, I'm sure you see it played out

Originally posted by LostSailor
Finding a woman like that would be... pardon the cliche... Like finding a needle in a haystack.

yes, but I had to ask/wonder

Originally posted by LostSailor
As far as me falling in love... I do that easily. I have a problem with it, that I will confess. Oh Sheng from Saipan... That Russian gal... I forget her name. Oh yeah... What's her face from Brazil!!! She was fun. That one belle from Germany!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I find it hard to believe you fell in love with them...I think I agree with DR Strangecraft that love is a decision, a commitment...it isn't an emotion you are alve to (usually)...it can be strengthened by emotion...and perpetuated by desire too, but it's still a choice...and one I'd not be making if I were you and not be seeing her again-ever...and tread lightly if I were you and had to go away for 8 months before seeing her again...but maybe you are interchanging love with sex and aren't being serious...and point of fact I am NOT you

Originally posted by LostSailor
but See what I am getting at? I am no saint. I believe I have morals but a man can only go so long staring at an ocean without... needing... The softness and sensitivity that being onboard a ship with 40 other men doesn't offer.

Well, not if you don't want to get thrown overbaord to be lost at sea a ship of 40 men doesn't have much to offer you! But yeah, I understand...and unfortunately your immediate needs, might keep you from finding that needle in the haystack of the easy ones and users...but you never know...

Originally posted by LostSailor
You definitely do "think2much." Hehe...

yes, I do, I equally talk2much at times as well, but it doesn't mean I'm not right sometimes!

Originally posted by LostSailor
Yeah I guess I advertise my money. I do get payed pretty well for what I do. Excuse me for this shallow comment, but I find most women are a bit attracted to the color green. It shows I must be successful at something. Again, I would not do this if I was actually looking for a long term relationship.

yeah, as far as long term prospects, I'd be suspicious of the women attracted to you for your money. But it is true, cash is as good a bait as anything else for alot of women.

Originally posted by LostSailor
can't play guitar at all... Some play guitar though, but mostly we work... Keeps you busy.

well thats okay, plenty of cash and a nice pair of jeans should work just fine for the women you're attracting.

Originally posted by LostSailor
Work 7 days a week 12 hours a day and when we have free time we drink, play cards, read, play unusual pranks on one another. Anything to keep the mind busy I guess.

yeah, BTDT deployed for the first Gulf War for about 8 months-thankfully we were on a small island in BIOT so we could drink and were in mixed company so we could...well, at least you know we all weren't going 8 months without.

Originally posted by LostSailor
And again, I have yet to see anyone get thrown overboard on my ship. Although I have thought about it a few times... That bastard 3rd Engineer... Usually its the overly "manly" ones that have the problems. Go figure.

LMAO No kidding that does figure though...just like in society when men fall prey to proving their masculinity by being sports fanatics and all the things they think make them seem manly, especially to other men. Sorry, but that is funny. hehehe

Originally posted by LostSailor
I agree with you entirely here. Basically, I think that if a man wants a woman and seriously thinks he can have that woman. He will get her. Period. Woman want confidence, yet understanding. Firmness, yet kindness. manliness, yet sensitivity. Intelligence, yet spontaneity. Gentleness, yet a man that can knock their socks off. Confuses me all to hell.

confuses most men...actually most women are confused about what they want...but it does sound like you've got the upperhand in the "clue" department my friend.

Originally posted by LostSailor
I think the key is the ability to adapt and be able to tell what the complex female mind wants at certain times. I don't even think women know what they want half the time.

I am simple. I like that.

Well, thats just it. We need a back to basics revolution where men can be men and know the basics of what women really need and want...if only women could figure out what they really want in a man! Instead of selling themselvesout to buy what society tells them they must want-which is men equally selling themseves out...what a crock!

[edit on 30-1-2006 by think2much]

[edit on 30-1-2006 by think2much]

You folks are on a roll!!!!

Hello Denial..long time no see..Hope things are well with you .

Please excuse my provincial ignorance..but what is a Harpie??? Then I will understand the context of that part of your post.

Oh..and to clarify ..I have a problem ..I dont like big boobed women...must be something wrong with me. Not that I mind eye candy..I just know that it is not everything. There are many more important and meaningful things in life than eye candy. But big boobed women..nope..not for me. I am a man of "modest" tastes.!!

I am aware that many women are insecure about their appearence but I dont let that bother me or drag me down. The method is to make them feel secure in what they have and build confidence in working with the rest. In otherwords to help them in not letting thier insecurities drag them down or you either. I have told many a woman ..I dont have time for their insecurities....dont foist them off on me with the intention of making me jump for insecurities. In short ..you have to look past and think beyond the flesh. The flesh is obvious...the soul is not always as obvious. The soul is often where it really counts.

I agree..in some arenas women are more afraid of men than the other way around. Its just that many men are so dumb they are not aware of this.


Think2much:

Yeah I agree..there is a horrible shortage of real men in this world. I suspect that merchandizing among many women has confused this awareness of what a real man is and replaced it with the ability to gain access to goods and services without work or real commitment. Merchandizing. Just appearences...the counterfit. The males have themselves resorted to counterfitting to give these impressions. I think it becomes a lose/lose proposition more often than it is made aware of ..or made public.
You know..I used to get jobs when working in the engine rooms of these Los Angeles class submarines ,way up in the overheads on the undersides of turbines or such. There would often be women painters doing certain detailed touch up work in small gangs working below. If my jobs took long enough ...the conversations wafting up into the overheads became very intresting.....girl talk.....especially if they didnt know you were there. But you know Think2much ..that theme often came up in one form or another...where are all the real men...??? Another theme that came up was the absolute scorn these women had for certain types of guys. It was sometimes very intresting being a fly on the wall. Entertaining too..you have to sometimes bite your tongue so as not to give it away and be able to enjoy the full conversation..as a fly on the wall. I mean ..sometimes it was better than prime time. No kidding!!!

As to "Balance" yeah ..I agree..thats what Dr Strangecraft has...and with it Peace.. A certain class or type of stability. Much more important than it tends to be given credit in todays world substuting merchandizing for "Stability..Peace..Balance". Another word for it ...in Judeo Christian philosophy ....is "Life."

Awareness of this is what began to drive me out of the "fast food lane lifestyle."...LOL "Life in the fast food lane"..sounds like the title of a book!!! ...LOL..and a movie ..followup!!! Well ...theres that merchandizing again.
What do you think Dr Strangecraft???


The problem, to me, is that real manhood like real woman hood cannot be bought or purchased in a squeeze tube or the latest car on the market..etc etc. It takes years of hard work and often postponed gratification.
Real womahood cannot either...though merchandizers seem wont to take the very souls of women by getting them to think it is so....instant gratification. More so with women ..but the merchandizers will take the souls of men too if they can get them on this treadmill. Pitiful...!!

OH..by the way..I think every man should know how to cook clean...etc etc..He shouldnt be dependent on a woman for these things. When I see men like this...who cant cook or clean up after themselves..I think..what a bunch of wimps. It really browns my backside when I see guys like this...living like oinkers. Women too for that matter.


As to women who want to "trade favors " for certain performances. In my younger years ...I fell for it ..but somewhere along the line I began to realize it was cheating myself. My time and labor were worth more..much more. Actually ..it was the older women I dated who drove this home..not the younger ones. I began to realize that these women being older had spent a longer lifetime ..refining this skill on men...and hence used it more often and naturally ..and could read men much better. Also much easier to apply on a younger man. I have since learned how to handle them too. One woman used to try the clue and cue ..."why are men such wimps" This is your clue and cue that the bar is getting raised on you.
Depending on my frame of mind as to how recpetive I am to the clue and cue..I will often tell them..."I'm not here to try out for approval..pick up on clues and cues." Many of them are not accustomed to men thinking this line of thought nor expressing so. They will often then give you some snappy come back....most women like to get it the last word...in these things. All you have to say to them is .."What do you think I am coming over here for...the added work at my expense??" "What commodity in the marketplace of real value do you have to offer me that I cant get more or better somewhere else??" Many of them are actually dumb enough to bring up sex...then you have them. "Well I'm not going to sleep with you !!"
No problem...thats not why I come here...and I dont need the extra work either. I can get both somewhere else..other than here..both are not in short supply out here in the marketplace.
Now here they have a problem...they must function outside the sexual arena...and most dont like to do that. Or.....they have to perform....in the one arena ..or skill most of them only have!!!
Or failing this ..they can tell you to leave...which is ok with me..because I dont have time for a high maintnence woman.
Its amazing what happens with alot of women when you convince them that you are well aware that sex is not a commodity in short supply in the marketplace.
It is also amazing how dumbassed stupid so many men are not to know this simple fact.
Once you pull your head out of your backside enought to get some fresh air..you begin to think about things like Dr Strangecraft has found.......Balance...Life...Peace!! And you realize these things are far more important than a jump in the sack. A Jump in the sack is a small part of it..only....there is a much much wider world out here....not often seen with the naked eye.

You know..Think2much..the woman I am seeing is a apartment manager...or boss over other apartment managers..she has alot of input on both the maintnence and the office staffs. She knows people and how to get things done. She also goes to court to get judgements on tenants with whom they have problems. So she knows the system and people in it and how to work them. She can be very agressive at times. I will tell you that I have problems with her trying to boss me around like I am one of her employees.
I have often reminded her.."Hey...Im not one of your employees..you dont boss me around like someone on the job." This really caught her short the first time I did this..but I think she respected me for doing it. I have to be careful here and very aware because being a woman and more subtle than men..she has multitudes of way so peel the orange so to speak. Keeps me on my toes.
I am well aware that at work she can handle the male staff much more easily than the women...it is the women she has far more problems in dealing than the men. The women have a much stronger and entrenched sense of entitlement than do the men...both in her office staff and even among the tenants. She can spot very quickly tenants for whom the woman is the driving force behind the men who come in and have problems with their leases/contract. She knows how to go for the throat if she has to in this buisness...both among the men and women. I am very proud of her for this skill.
This does however keep me on my toes at times. Gotta be sharp..its not a education one gets in school or college.

OH..and it is definitely good to support her..yes..not always physically but I think the emotional support is equally as important as physical support. Giving her encouragement that she can accomplish something not natural to her. Something she is not wont to do herself...this is very important. To teach her not to be afraid or intimitated by certain things. Some things which come naturally to men are a huge obstacle to many women. Dont cut them down or off for thier fears..dont rescue them as a career ..but encourage them step by step to deal with these things themselves. Help to teach them not to let their fears or insecuritys drag them down or backwards. Some women know this naturally ..but many do not .
And yes...all this in a framework of Peace.

Thanks to all for some great posts,
See you around Olde Man,
Orangetom

I will say (knowing that I hope Frau Dr. will show up and read some of this stuff, maybe by wednesday or so), that I think a big part of it is training the other person.

We train people in how to treat us. Every thing you put up with teaches the other person that this will get them a positive result. When you get mad and it costs them too much, the other person will try a different tactic.

I am training my children in how to meet my standards. And they are training me in how to be a good father. We train everyone around us, and they train us as well.

Finally my wife sees that her comlpexion is quite pretty and people think she has a pleasant face and figure--she doesn't have to wear makeup all the time. Yes, some women will think less of her for not conforming. But men still flirt with her, and I still love on her. So, unless she has a formal business appointment, why go to that effort. Besides, it leaves flesh-tone smudges on the upholstery in the back seat. . .

I think most men choose a partner based on how it will impress people. Like a woman trying to marry a doctor. But eventually, you realize that love is a verb. You can train any person to give you intimacy in a way that satisfies you, if they are willing to learn. So find a person you enjoy who is a good student, and teach them what pleases you. Learn to make them feel good, too.

The loving is a lot better when you actively enjoy the other persons company afterward, when you can enjoy a game of scrabble on your honeymooon, or snorkeling in the surf behind your hotel.

Romance is a conversation. The relationship ends when the two of you run out of things to talk about.

Looking at the completion of our first decade, Frau Dr. and I have so many inside jokes that for an outsider, it would be like going to a showing of "Monty Python's Holy Grail" or "Rocky Horror Picture Show" in a foreign language theatre with only English subtitles.

You'd wonder what we were laughing at, and why the jokes don't make sense.

.

Wow,

There are quite a few interesting points being made about this current issue, and I am thoroughly absorbed. Think2Much, your post reminds me of a book I am currently reading. A book written by Tom Wolfe called "I am Charlotte Simmons."

It's all about this young straight A student with a perfect SAT score who is the first person from her small little Blue Ridge mountain town of Sparta North Carolina to go to a prestigious college. She tackles a lot of issues about modern life, but most of the book seems to center around sexuality. Specifically the sexuality of young college women and their necessity to prove their womanhood through looks, dress, and sleeping with the right man so to speak.

It also tackles sexuality from the masculine point of view. The popular college frat boy... Hell bent on sleeping with every woman on campus no matter what the consequences. The all-American power forward from the colleges national championship basketball team. And the nerdy virgin college newspaper writer, trying to figure out why women avoid him.

It really is a great read, and I highly recommend it if you get the chance.

[edit on 30-1-2006 by LostSailor]

"Im Charlotte Simmons"

Tom Wolfe.....

You mean its about evolution...on college campus????

Im being facitious of course...its about competition...right out of the primordal ooze!!! Isnt that a version of the daytime soaps...just college oriented??

Thanks,
Orangetom

The Truth about Hillary

Edward Klein



and

Matthew Arnold

prose and poetry

This is actually an older book circa 1920s and written in a much different style..I don't find it particularly easy to read but I am struggling through it. Never been much for poetry ..perhapsed that is one of my problems with this book. The essays ,however, are intresting.


thanks,
Orangetom


LOL LOL..I thought we needed some book reports to ease up and get some levity. We are getting very serious in our topic here..

I'm afraid you lost me orangetom...

The book is called "I am Charlotte Simmons." It's about quite a few things, a lot of which I described above... But I think Tom Wolfe writes a bit above the standards required for a soap operas...........


Maybe I just misread your post.

[edit on 30-1-2006 by LostSailor]

Hey orangetom
First of My definition of Harpie is those whining nagging hot women types who go out of their way to get what they want as far as a man doing things for them. No matter what the poor guy does, its never good enough, only to be berrated by more nagging. THe kind that makes me sit there and go, WTF???? Why is this awesome guy with Broadzilla?
Why couldn't I be with him instead, Id give him the world.

I was one of those girls that had the poor self image. I was president of the itty bitty titty committee, had a pear shape, and because I developed slowly, trust me I stayed on the friendship side of the fence, ever since waaay back when. This led to obesity, which led to lonliness, depression, suicide attempts, and finally obsessive compulsion with my eating habits.

I existed on 3 rice cakes a day, 2 cups of coffee, and a handful of vitamins. Why? Because all my frinds were going to the prom, and I couldnt get a date to save my life. I had too much junk in the trunk at 5'3 and 215 lbs.

I was the girl that gave hummers under the bleachers, that the boys would deny even being near, simply because it was the ONLY chance I had to feel as though I was somehow desirable. SOmehow loved and validated. It isn't the fact that we are all born with poor self image, but for those of us on the unpopular side of the fence, this is the closest thing to a relationship we could ever fathom. I remember having a crush on a guy who was a junior, when I was a freshman. I mustered up the courage to have my "Friend" deliver this letter telling him that I liked him. Mind you I was over 200 lbs.

I waited behind her locker door while she delivered and he read this letter, he had a smile on his face, and I can still remember the blue color of his eyes and the way they smiled, when he starting questioning who it was she pointed to me, his friends were around. He then proceeded to shout really loudly "EWWWWW" That fat bitch!!!! NO WAY NOT WITH A TEN FOOT POLE!!! And he then went off to practice.

Needless to say, I went home that day and proceeded to eat 4 big macs, 2 shakes,a large fry, and a handfull of valium. When I recovered I vowed I would do anything I could to change my life, and I did. Thats when I went OCD with the rice cakes, and vitamins.

My goal was now to do anything I could to look like one of those models in the magazines. I dropped down to 97 lbs,, and I noticed, the smaller I became the better looking the guy I could get.

I ran into him a couple years later after I became a size 5 and he asked me out to dinner, during dinner, he asked me the usual and when I explained that he had asked me out back then, and I politely explained to him how he devastated me, I then threw my drink on him and walked out.

You cannot say that 96 percent of all boys in high school do not go after the perfect girl on the Varsity Cheer squad. That is why we have such poor self images.

Originally posted by denial28
You cannot say that 96 percent of all boys in high school do not go after the perfect girl on the Varsity Cheer squad. That is why we have such poor self images.

Well, that is the way the problem often plays out in highschool indeed, but it isn't the reason highschool girls have poor self images, there are MANY. Including the use of waif models you were attempting to aspire to look more like, and the selling of that image as an ideal of beauty to men in general.

I noticed in your VERY PERSONAL STORY (which I appreciate you being willing to share) that you gave "hummers" under the bleachers and later you reported the object of your affection was going off to practive after humiliating you...

now, please don't take this wrong, but in all fairness I want to ask...did you hit on the guys in the computer lab?...the AV guys?...the clarinet players? You know, the geeks... and find equal rejection there?

I'm not putting you down, I am just asking, because it is my experience that the failed dynamic of which I speak, is usually a two way st.

saying...there is a failed dynamic in what we view as attractive and desireable sold to us by society (basic good looks aside)

Also, homelife, hometwon life, parenting/lack of...all sorts of environmental factors play into a girls self esteem...a guys too...

as for the rest, may I just say, I'm glad you lived to throw the drink in his face and I hope you have respect for yourself not to abuse your body in any way any longer...overeating, undereating and certainly, never another attempt at your life. Nothing is worth that-ever.

Thanks again for your post

Not to jump over you Orangetom, Salior, and DrS...but I wanted to address her post immediately because it was so personal and I felt it warranted an immediate reply

but I am off to bed soon, so I'll catch up with you gentlemen manana

Tom Wolfe..is that the guy who wrote like....The Right Stuff?? For some reason that is the book I associate with him.

Thanks,
Orangetom

Oh..I forgot to post this part..

Its just that the way you described the book...it came across like a college soap opera. Sort of a who's sleeping with whom!!

Thanks,
Orangetom

Originally posted by orangetom1999
Oh..and to clarify ..I have a problem ..I dont like big boobed women...must be something wrong with me. Not that I mind eye candy..I just know that it is not everything. There are many more important and meaningful things in life than eye candy. But big boobed women..nope..not for me. I am a man of "modest" tastes.!!

well can't say there is anything *wrong* with you based on that preference and prejudice...to that I say, "to each their own"...however to disqualify a woman's potential for a satisfying relationship on the grounds of her having large breasts...would make you a hyppocrit of what you really look for in woman... would it not?

hehehehe

Originally posted by orangetom1999
I am aware that many women are insecure about their appearence but I dont let that bother me or drag me down. The method is to make them feel secure in what they have (snip) In short ..you have to look past and think beyond the flesh. The flesh is obvious...the soul is not always as obvious. The soul is often where it really counts.

I think making a woman secure in herself involves making her feel attractive inside and out...if you take and express interest in her thoughts, respect for her perspective/opinions etc, along with showing blatant sexual attraction/appreciation for *her sexuality* as an aspect all it's own, she lets go of her insecuritites about her body/physical appearance much faster.

Ravish a womans entire body and she can get over her insecutrities of physical appearance pretty damn quick too.

But seriously, a woman's sexuality is not her body or physical attraction factor, (though of course they play a role within it) and so, just like getting to know her through her thoughts and persepctives, likewise, getting to know her sexually has to do with understanding her sexuality itself.

Too often getting to know a woman sexually, skips understanding/respecting her sexuality as it's own element, and that is the fault of a failed dynamic too. Women often don't understand their own sexuality, and men aren't aware it's seperate from attraction and sex appeal either.

Women have been conditioned to think their sexuality is a tool and a measure...it's their attraction factor, the attractive physical apperance and "sexiness" to a man has replaced their true sexuality and the purpose of it.

But yes, not to get too sidetracked, the flesh is obvious... and to me, it is the soul that ALWAYS matters

Originally posted by orangetom1999
I agree..in some arenas women are more afraid of men than the other way around. Its just that many men are so dumb they are not aware of this.

I think to some extent, in this counterfeit culture, both sexes know they are but playing a role of portraying what society tells them to, and how, and by doing/dressing/acting in those expected ways to attract the opposite sex... internally, they know at the core they are counterfeit, it isn't who they really are...and the fear is that they'll be exposed and rejected for it... because they think it really is how everyone else is

what a crock...and thus the problem is perpetuated.

Originally posted by orangetom1999
Yeah I agree..there is a horrible shortage of real men in this world. I suspect that merchandizing among many women has confused this awareness of what a real man is and replaced it with the ability to gain access to goods and services without work or real commitment. Merchandizing. Just appearences...the counterfit. The males have themselves resorted to counterfitting to give these impressions. I think it becomes a lose/lose proposition more often than it is made aware of ..or made public.

Exactly! A lose/lose situation and both sexes need to WAKE UP

Originally posted by orangetom1999
(snip) .....girl talk.....especially if they didnt know you were there. But you know Think2much ..that theme often came up in one form or another...where are all the real men...???

Well, risking a group of feminists hunting me down and doing bodily harm to me, I will assert this...women who work, especially in non-traditional fields or carreers often fought for equality....and while women are cappable in these fiedls and in doing many things men can, and should be paid according to abilities and etc...still for MANY a woman this movement became something entirely different...it became a competition for superiority instead of equality

suddenly men were being bashed and degraded from every angle and seen as inferior, chauvinsitic, and ultimately not needed by a "real" woman...a *Real* woman doesn't need a man, or yeild to a man...etc

Even commericals which cater to alot of women as their marketing target perpetuated this male bashing thinking by portraying men stereotypically (or have so in the past) as slobs, the dumb husband, the sports fanatic...just doing stereotypical things, being an idiot or screwing things up in one way or another.

Or if in a suit...it's otherwise dergoatory mocking him and his suit jacket is caught in the cab door, he's spilling coffee, half awake...and this is funny...making fun of men...women are protrayed more often as smart, successful, carefree etc.

Certainly telling women over and over again that men are incappable idiots does nothing to instill a sense of secuirty in men's abilities-no wonder women don't think they need a man...in actuality, though women don't need a man...not like that.

Women do need a man...a real one...and it's not to be successful in life...not to be happy in life...but to be balanced....which increases both sucess and happiness in life

Women have been told so often not to think or believe they *need* a man for *anything*...not to define themselves, not to be successful, not to be happy etc...and it's true- there are happy and succesful single women everywhere

...freezing their eggs at the age of 35 just in case they do find a man one of these days that compliments their life and doesn't take away their independance...because they don't *need* a man...but are open to the possibilities of merging with the right one if he comes along...

he likely wont...not until she is much older and her perceptions and her priorities change...

Anyway, combine women defining success by their careers, and their independance by not needing a man, and add to it the view that men are basically idiots, making fun of men, and having degrading views of them...well, the *sexual revolution of feminists* certainly didn't help women appreciate men-even real ones-for fear of not being a real woman.

Look how Dr Strangecrafts wife was berratd for making her own decision to say "obey" in her vows!

So you create a society where men's role in minimized, and women are recognized by their success alone, their level of feminist commitment, or in contrast only appreciated by their base sexual attraction which they learn to use as a tool...

and men feel unnecessary, inadequet, or merely equal-but with nothing more to offer, and/or then they resort to likewsie pimping themselves to prove themselves through their ability to "perform" for a woman... to be whatever it is he should be to win her affection when she doesn't otherwise need him...or any man...and has her choice of men because the competition of performing men is always perpetuated, one trying to outperform and prove his worthiness more than the next guy...

for what? an unbalanced relationship that is doomed to fail...or at least be very unhappy...unless him performing for her approval for a lifetime, and she happy with a counterfeit man instead of a real man... can truly be the measure of success for some people

Originally posted by orangetom1999
As to "Balance" yeah ..I agree..thats what Dr Strangecraft has...and with it Peace.. (snip).... "Life."

indeed...thats why I appreciate his perspective here-his balanced life and relationship is atypical, however it's exemplary as an ideal


Wow...think2much talks2much for the time being...BBL!

Originally posted by orangetom1999
Tom Wolfe..is that the guy who wrote like....The Right Stuff?? For some reason that is the book I associate with him.

You are correct fine sir.

He also wrote "The Electric Kool-Aid Acid Test," "Bonfire of the Vanities," and "A Man in Full."

Newsweek reporting now that boys are falling behind in schools as the classroom has gone overboard in "uplifting" the girls. My boys were born masculine. I am amazed sometimes by that simple and obvious fact. They play differently than girls from the earliest of ages and think differently so i am certain they will learn differently. They shouldn't be discouraged for being boys, it will hurt their precious confidence.

More important than the classroom, they need Men around them. Rolemodels. They yearn for it and as a Mom, I could never fulfill that. Read this article, I know it is a bit "heartfelt" but I think it nails what i am discussing.



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[url=http://www.abovetopsecret.com/forum/thread189789/pg1]Quote Reference.
Posting work written by others. **ALL MEMBERS READ**







[edit on 31-1-2006 by sanctum]

I never want to borrow your hair product, your nail polish or any of your skin lotions. See my post regarding my helplessness when I see Clint Eastwood on the screen (not Madison County Clint; Unforgiven Clint!).

There's a book by a guy named Blum called The Sibling Society. In the intro, he talks about going to visit a male friend who is administration at a preschool or kindergarten (forget which). The children cling to Blum's trouser legs as he walks through a classroom. They are so starved for adult male input that they will touch a stranger if it will "get a man's attention."

Makes me want to rage and puke at the same time.

I spend an hour a day playing with my kids. I show them things that are over their heads, just so they get used to hearing about how things work. I showed them the blueprints of the building where I work and they were absorbed for 20 minutes just looking at all the outlets and light fixture's wiring to the breaker box.

I cook them breakfast.

We talk about mistakes. About not running with a pointed stick, about holding your orange juice with both hands, at least over the new carpet.

How, if you don't want the food on your plate, you keep it a secret instead of shouting about what you don't eat.

We talk about how lying makes things worse, how the lie monster grows and grows until it hurts people.

We talk about how the cat has feelings, the neighbor has feelings, and how we don't make people cry. Only bad men do that. Good guys help out.

* * * * *

Now, I believe homosexuality is a choice that each person is free to make. And I don't want to pass judgment on other persons' adult choices.

From what I've seen of young men growing up, I have a theory that at least some boys who will grow up to be gay have an emotionally absent father, and/or a domineering mother.

Before the flames descend, I emphasize that for mature persons, sexuality is a choice, and not merely a response to or a reaction against their childhood experience. That being said, I suspect we (all of us) seek out in our romance the things we idolized (and didn't get) as children.

We used to talk about little boys "wanting to marry a girl just like the one that married dear old dad." But what if your father was a puke? A self-centered domineering bully? A bad man?

Then, male or female, you'd spend the rest of your life torturing yourself, and taking it out on the world, that you had a parent that didn't know how to love and be loved.

Sad. More depressing than war and bloodshed, in my eyes.

.

back real quick to you Orangetom

Originally posted by orangetom1999
Its amazing what happens with alot of women when you convince them that you are well aware that sex is not a commodity in short supply in the marketplace.
It is also amazing how dumbassed stupid so many men are not to know this simple fact.
Once you pull your head out of your backside enought to get some fresh air..you begin to think about things like Dr Strangecraft has found.......Balance...Life...Peace!!

Sex is not in short supply, and neither are performing men...so why do men continue to tryt to keep meeting the expectations of a rising bar and outperform themselves...because they know there are other performers and feel the need to prove themselves...what needs to happen is a man needs to stop performing, to drop the mindset, and then rise above the bar.

...stop and think...either she is a user not worth the performance...or if she is a worthy woman-stop degrading yourself and the relationship by merely performing and give her what she really needs-and wants...a real man not merely a performer ..you know she can get that anywhere...so why not give her more-rise above!