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Viva Testosterone! The male revolution!
page: 1share:
Disclaimer: I know not all men are wimps, and "nice guys" but most are "performers" in society, and I further add, that I personally *KNOW* not
ALL women are users, however meny are unaware of the part they play in perpetuating the problem that ultimately affects them in the long run!
That being stated:
There needs to be a new male uprising!
I am serious though! In a nutshell: men need to take back their manhood instead of finding new and improved ways to market it to women!
This is what is wrong in the world, as my buddy Orangetom will point out quite often, men have become expendable 'performers' in our society-especially in America, or perhaps thats just my only frame of reference.
Men buy into what image they need to become and portrray and what standards they have to live up to to be "successful" in life and with women, and they pay for it in so many ways...
Women know men are easily used, expected to perform, and conveniently replaced-and why? Because men handed over their manhood and perpetuated the problem by thus allowing themselves to become so expendable under the "nice guy" conspiracy
Nice guys really listen to women, nice guys think of her first, nice guys will do anything to prove their love and worthiness, nice guys will compete for her attention, affection, and body. Nice guys will work long hours and two jobs to drive the right car, wear the right clothes, and buy her anything her heart desires, nice guys try to "win" her affections-constantly performing so as not to disappoint and to win approval and to feel like a man and be seen as a man and a nice guy.
It began with a push and a shove from society, movies catering to the emotional needs of women, made up a stereotypical nice guys that every woman fell for it...he has to be good-looking but just a little flawed...his weakness?...loving her so deeply he'd do anything for her, right? He has to have a good job and car and clothes and sense...and be sensitive... and her best friend and make her laugh and feel good about herself.
*all the women sigh* *all the women swoon*
Then it's further perpetuated with women who are not happy with all that, and think the moment a man is not one or anything of the traits desired, that instead of realizing she may not be the ideal woman either...that it's just time for him to CHANGE, evolve into what she expects... or she will find someone else to perform for her...someone who will treat her right, and offer her the lifestyle she wants, DESERVES, but that she doesn't have to help achieve half of the time....some who is everything she wants and needs...or can be CHANGED and TRAINED to be that.
So men act in ways (perform) that will attract women ...or to continue to keep a woman who "expects" a certain *quality of life* happy
These "nice guys" are just the worst species and they make it difficult for the gender by feeding this failed fantasy and keeping women in this belief that they are entitled, by their gender and the POP to behave abhorrently while not even realizing it! Half of the time it's how they've been educated/raised in their home, and social environment and influence of media etc.
Nice guys...nice guys aren't even guys-they're drones! Work on little drones! Pay through your blood sweat and tears for a woman-she DESERVES it afterall... because she's a woman!
I'm NOT saying do not respect women, but how about do not immediately mindlessly respect them personally...why don't THEY have to earn respect, but men do?
Yes, be respectful in your actions to the gender in general, not a chauvinistic pig, but do not respect a woman blindly without knowing what kind of a user she is.... or isn't...benefit of the doubt is fine, and encouraged thinking mind you! I'm not saying every woman is a heartless moneygrubbing using wench...but some innocently-by default- are simply users of the performers and don't recognize anything wrong with this system.
...men have to perform and prove themselves and sell themselves and show their worth...women just have to *be* there for the taking...
for a price...and boy they do take...fix their flat tire for a smile, mow their lawn for a giggle, build them a back deck and they'll prance around in their bikini while you work...
and thats just the shallow ones...there are good deep thinking and self respecting women out there equally perpetuating this flawed emasculating view of what men in society should be/do today
and why do relationships fail left and right? Why do these women have ample opportunity to be disappointed in men? Because men set themselves up to disappoint. Sell themselves out.
Men don't have to be doormats...but they find a beautiful woman...and she's, hot, funny, smart, educated...etc...and then they will do *anything* for her-especially if she goes down and especially if they don't usually get it much! ...ah...this is *love*
Even otherwise smart, good looking self respecting guys will fall prey to the performance driven role of man today
...and what happens? He treats her like a princess, and effectively hands her his balls....and then what happens? I'll tell you...suddenly when all is said and done, she has this empty void within her...she has everything she wants, right? Still something is missing...
ah....something is inevitably always missing...
The romance is gone...why? because there is a lack of balance-either the man is gone all the time working his arse off to give her a standard of living she *deserves*, or he resents her for how he's changed, or never lived, or he just isn't seen as a "man" by her when he is home/around...and why? Because performers are not men, they are drones and eventually this plays out in the fact a woman will ultimately feel a void when all she has is a performing drone instead of a real man.
But society forgets how to teach men to be real men, and doesn't portray real men in movies, so women don't know how to recognize them, they send out their cues of what one most important thing they have to offer a man...just being a woman and all that represents for a man...and he picks up on the cue as he's been conditioned to do, and then performs according to how it's been dictated he *should* ...and then ultimately they are selfdeating behaviours by both of them and leave her ultimately wanting something else/someone else....
...and leave him wondering "what did I do wrong?"
So bitter...and yet so often he then tries harder to perform the next time...becoming a cycle
WAKE UP MEN-AND BE MEN!
WOMEN WILL THANK YOU FOR IT AS THERE IS A SHORTAGE!
THE WORLD WILL REJOICE!
So are you a man or a drone?
Do you know the difference?
Women, do you want a man or a drone?
Do YOU know the difference?
What do YOU bring to the table worthy of a REAL man?
think about it.
Viva Testosterone!
That being stated:
There needs to be a new male uprising!
I am serious though! In a nutshell: men need to take back their manhood instead of finding new and improved ways to market it to women!
This is what is wrong in the world, as my buddy Orangetom will point out quite often, men have become expendable 'performers' in our society-especially in America, or perhaps thats just my only frame of reference.
Men buy into what image they need to become and portrray and what standards they have to live up to to be "successful" in life and with women, and they pay for it in so many ways...
Women know men are easily used, expected to perform, and conveniently replaced-and why? Because men handed over their manhood and perpetuated the problem by thus allowing themselves to become so expendable under the "nice guy" conspiracy
Nice guys really listen to women, nice guys think of her first, nice guys will do anything to prove their love and worthiness, nice guys will compete for her attention, affection, and body. Nice guys will work long hours and two jobs to drive the right car, wear the right clothes, and buy her anything her heart desires, nice guys try to "win" her affections-constantly performing so as not to disappoint and to win approval and to feel like a man and be seen as a man and a nice guy.
It began with a push and a shove from society, movies catering to the emotional needs of women, made up a stereotypical nice guys that every woman fell for it...he has to be good-looking but just a little flawed...his weakness?...loving her so deeply he'd do anything for her, right? He has to have a good job and car and clothes and sense...and be sensitive... and her best friend and make her laugh and feel good about herself.
*all the women sigh* *all the women swoon*
Then it's further perpetuated with women who are not happy with all that, and think the moment a man is not one or anything of the traits desired, that instead of realizing she may not be the ideal woman either...that it's just time for him to CHANGE, evolve into what she expects... or she will find someone else to perform for her...someone who will treat her right, and offer her the lifestyle she wants, DESERVES, but that she doesn't have to help achieve half of the time....some who is everything she wants and needs...or can be CHANGED and TRAINED to be that.
So men act in ways (perform) that will attract women ...or to continue to keep a woman who "expects" a certain *quality of life* happy
These "nice guys" are just the worst species and they make it difficult for the gender by feeding this failed fantasy and keeping women in this belief that they are entitled, by their gender and the POP to behave abhorrently while not even realizing it! Half of the time it's how they've been educated/raised in their home, and social environment and influence of media etc.
Nice guys...nice guys aren't even guys-they're drones! Work on little drones! Pay through your blood sweat and tears for a woman-she DESERVES it afterall... because she's a woman!
I'm NOT saying do not respect women, but how about do not immediately mindlessly respect them personally...why don't THEY have to earn respect, but men do?
Yes, be respectful in your actions to the gender in general, not a chauvinistic pig, but do not respect a woman blindly without knowing what kind of a user she is.... or isn't...benefit of the doubt is fine, and encouraged thinking mind you! I'm not saying every woman is a heartless moneygrubbing using wench...but some innocently-by default- are simply users of the performers and don't recognize anything wrong with this system.
...men have to perform and prove themselves and sell themselves and show their worth...women just have to *be* there for the taking...
for a price...and boy they do take...fix their flat tire for a smile, mow their lawn for a giggle, build them a back deck and they'll prance around in their bikini while you work...
and thats just the shallow ones...there are good deep thinking and self respecting women out there equally perpetuating this flawed emasculating view of what men in society should be/do today
and why do relationships fail left and right? Why do these women have ample opportunity to be disappointed in men? Because men set themselves up to disappoint. Sell themselves out.
Men don't have to be doormats...but they find a beautiful woman...and she's, hot, funny, smart, educated...etc...and then they will do *anything* for her-especially if she goes down and especially if they don't usually get it much! ...ah...this is *love*
Even otherwise smart, good looking self respecting guys will fall prey to the performance driven role of man today
...and what happens? He treats her like a princess, and effectively hands her his balls....and then what happens? I'll tell you...suddenly when all is said and done, she has this empty void within her...she has everything she wants, right? Still something is missing...
ah....something is inevitably always missing...
The romance is gone...why? because there is a lack of balance-either the man is gone all the time working his arse off to give her a standard of living she *deserves*, or he resents her for how he's changed, or never lived, or he just isn't seen as a "man" by her when he is home/around...and why? Because performers are not men, they are drones and eventually this plays out in the fact a woman will ultimately feel a void when all she has is a performing drone instead of a real man.
But society forgets how to teach men to be real men, and doesn't portray real men in movies, so women don't know how to recognize them, they send out their cues of what one most important thing they have to offer a man...just being a woman and all that represents for a man...and he picks up on the cue as he's been conditioned to do, and then performs according to how it's been dictated he *should* ...and then ultimately they are selfdeating behaviours by both of them and leave her ultimately wanting something else/someone else....
...and leave him wondering "what did I do wrong?"
So bitter...and yet so often he then tries harder to perform the next time...becoming a cycle
WAKE UP MEN-AND BE MEN!
WOMEN WILL THANK YOU FOR IT AS THERE IS A SHORTAGE!
THE WORLD WILL REJOICE!
So are you a man or a drone?
Do you know the difference?
Women, do you want a man or a drone?
Do YOU know the difference?
What do YOU bring to the table worthy of a REAL man?
think about it.
Viva Testosterone!
So what-too long to read, too difficult to understand or does everyone just secretely agree?
Are women not sure if it's bashing them? It's really not the woman's fault she just perpetuates the problem now...I'm just trying to help women get what they deserve-a real man by trying to wake them up!
Or do men think I'm bashing them? Well, maybe I am just a bit, not really bashing you, as by now you are just a product of your environment, so I'm just trying to let you know you need to wake up and know what kind of men the world needs!
Are women not sure if it's bashing them? It's really not the woman's fault she just perpetuates the problem now...I'm just trying to help women get what they deserve-a real man by trying to wake them up!
Or do men think I'm bashing them? Well, maybe I am just a bit, not really bashing you, as by now you are just a product of your environment, so I'm just trying to let you know you need to wake up and know what kind of men the world needs!
I don't worry about it much... I think women have the image problem worse off than men. They have this gotta wear these shoes with this outfit and
this style shirt is now out and this is in with the pretty pink hat and the flower in the hair with the tube top belly button piercing and the tattoo
across the crack of my ass with silky Victoria Secret thing showing just enough but not to much or may be a construed as a whore with my necklace that
was in style yesterday... OH MY GOD... I'm out of style now because of that!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
I don't know how they do it.,.. Gotta love em for it though.
I'm no fashion man... I need a woman to do that for me... I wear it if it doesn't smell... thats my fashion.
[edit on 29-1-2006 by LostSailor]
I don't know how they do it.,.. Gotta love em for it though.
I'm no fashion man... I need a woman to do that for me... I wear it if it doesn't smell... thats my fashion.
[edit on 29-1-2006 by LostSailor]
Originally posted by LostSailor
I don't worry about it much... I think women have the image problem worse off than men. (snip)
II'm no fashion man... I need a woman to do that for me... I wear it if it doesn't smell... thats my fashion.
[edit on 29-1-2006 by LostSailor]
The image of men is in their behaviour not their appearance...
when you find your manhood (Check with the last woman who was dressing you, she may still have it) then you can realize it's not so much WHAT you wear anyway...
but HOW YOU WEAR it!
You my friend are possibly part of the problem...especially if the women you just described are the women you're attracted to, or desire to perform for and attract
But I appreciate your post.
I'm pretty old school.
So is my wife.
In our wedding vows, she said "obey." and I didn't. She wrote them that way. A lot of her feminist friends gave her total hell. She told them that she had waited for a man that was worth obeying, and she though feminism means that she decides for herself what she wants and this is what she chose.
Now. Don't think I make all ther decisions or she doesn't talk back. She has her own career and is in mgt at her work. I have only "bossed" her about 3 times in 10 years. 2 were jobs that were or would have started tearing our family apart, and she needed to quit one and not take the other. The third was a purchase we simply could not afford.
For my part, I open doors. I bring her flowers for no reason. I do both dishes and laundry.
For her part, she organizes my briefcase and day planner. cooks dinner and packs my lunches. Let's me go hunting and fishing without a lot of drama. She works hard to understand my hobbies and interests well enough to hold a conversation about them. She also worries that I am getting all the intimacy I need; I constantly reassure her that I am. In the culture she grew up in, cheating men are generally blamed on a frigid spouse; What in America is called "if he was gettin it at home . . ." I don't subscribe to it, but that's her fears.
We've been doing this a decade. I've never once regretted being married to her. My life is the best it's ever been. When "the guys" talk about cheating on their wives/ gfs, I honestly cannot picture doing so because I'd be trading down. The physical wouldn't be as good as it is now, and whatever B***h I cheated with probably couldn't cook, either!
She won't let me hang my trophy buckhead in the house tho. Call me whipped.
.
So is my wife.
In our wedding vows, she said "obey." and I didn't. She wrote them that way. A lot of her feminist friends gave her total hell. She told them that she had waited for a man that was worth obeying, and she though feminism means that she decides for herself what she wants and this is what she chose.
Now. Don't think I make all ther decisions or she doesn't talk back. She has her own career and is in mgt at her work. I have only "bossed" her about 3 times in 10 years. 2 were jobs that were or would have started tearing our family apart, and she needed to quit one and not take the other. The third was a purchase we simply could not afford.
For my part, I open doors. I bring her flowers for no reason. I do both dishes and laundry.
For her part, she organizes my briefcase and day planner. cooks dinner and packs my lunches. Let's me go hunting and fishing without a lot of drama. She works hard to understand my hobbies and interests well enough to hold a conversation about them. She also worries that I am getting all the intimacy I need; I constantly reassure her that I am. In the culture she grew up in, cheating men are generally blamed on a frigid spouse; What in America is called "if he was gettin it at home . . ." I don't subscribe to it, but that's her fears.
We've been doing this a decade. I've never once regretted being married to her. My life is the best it's ever been. When "the guys" talk about cheating on their wives/ gfs, I honestly cannot picture doing so because I'd be trading down. The physical wouldn't be as good as it is now, and whatever B***h I cheated with probably couldn't cook, either!
She won't let me hang my trophy buckhead in the house tho. Call me whipped.
.
Originally posted by think2much
The image of men is in their behaviour not their appearance...
it's not so much WHAT you wear anyway... but HOW YOU WEAR it!
You my friend are possibly part of the problem...especially if the women you just described are the women you're attracted to, or desire to perform for and attract
Ohhhh... I see... You don't think I'm a man.
Hehe... Try being a merchant marine and not be a man. It doesn't work well trust me. You know what happens to men who do something stupid out in the middle of an ocean? They just dissappear. Yes, even to this day there are about half a dozen cases per year of the "missing" sailor.
You read to much into my post, when will you people learn to not take me so seriously. As a merchant marine I live outside the norm for society. i spend about 8 months of my life per year aboard a ship. Living there, working there, eating there, playing there, and socializing there.
"Perform for attract," I don't think I do this... If I'm interested in a girl. I talk to her. I make sure she knows very early what i do for a living and that I'll only be around for about 4 more months... If she is still there after that revelation... heh... who knows?
I also find it extremely hard to believe it has nothing to do with "what" you are wearing. Try meeting a nice wholesome family gal while wearing coveralls and steel toed boots. But what the hell do I know?
First off ..I love your picture of the engineering station. The turbine throttle handwheels are recognizable. I've worked submarines and Nimitz class
aircraft carriers so it is immediately recognizable. Some commercial ships too.
As to what you are wearing ..yes it helps alot with different types of women. However I have met women who like a man in just jeans and a nice shirt especially if he comes across with the one ingredient most women recognize immediately ......confidence. This is a must with most women. Ive even dated women who dont necessarily like a man clean shaven. A couple of days of growth is great with them as long as it is shaped nicely. This was a surprise to learn as I had always taken a big bite into the clean shaven line. I still occasionally let my growth go unshaven for two to three days ..only shaping it up...It saves face so to use the oriental expression. Regular use of a sharp blade and my dull face...they never seem to meet on level playing ground so to speak...if I shave to much. But overall I do prefer clean shaven. I am hanging around my house this weekend ..couch potato ...saving face!!!
Yes...definitely be respectful in how you dress but dont let yourself constantly be like a new purse or handbag to go with her outfit. I greatly dislike women of this type.
I've never been into trophy women and dont intend to be this kind of man either. I have found trophy women in the traditional sense..to be overated...more liability than asset. What are most men thinking here...where are my jumper cables.????
Yes , understand about you being a merchant marine and gone for so many months of the year. Yes again..level with her. Put the cards on the table ..then she can deal or not deal with it. I agree.
Oh ..by the way..I really dislike this belly button thing..it comes across as sort of bubble gum like. Didnt this bubble gum girl ...you know ..that dingbat....Brittney or someone like this,start this type of popularity .or perhapsed reinforced it nation wide. There are to me so many women ..young and olde who are doing this and shouldnt. It too is like a xerox machine ..monkey see... monkey do. To many women exposing thier belly butttons ..in a offensive way..they think it looks good . I dont think so. Many of these women are not built for this type of exposure. I am not sure if it is the tops or the type of jeans that does this kind of exposure. Perhapsed someone could enlighten me here. Oh..and I hate belly button jewelry...I'll have my bellybuttons barefoot....thank you!!! I too am olde school like Dr Strangecraft. Nevertheless It doesnt sit well with me. You see so many women who are to olde for this or not built for it.. ..trying to get in a few more years of exposure/value in the marketplace with this type of dress. It really does become offensive. Wonder what kind of cheap rubbish they are next going to declare fashionable??
I dont like seeing men with jewelry on ..lots of jewelry...especially ear rings. I think it is very femminine. I have plenty of scars on my body from working..I dont need to add more by piercing. Same with tatoos ..they just are not for me. Olde school here again..I'll have my scars through honest work..not voluntarily self inflicted..thank you.
It cracks me up to see men who have to take all this junk off to get on certian jobs. You dont wear jewelry when you go into a ships reduction gear to do inspections or work. Same with a lube oil tank. Dont lose jewelry there either..so dont wear it. A loss of jewelry in those places could be catastrophic. It is the same when you go into a nuclear reactor...no jewelry. If you cant get it off...you tape it up..securely. I gave up on jewelry years ago..especially rings when I twice got them severely hung up on work I was doing and cutting into my fingers. I am not against rings per se..I own a couple but seldom wear them..mostlly when I dress up. I wear a watch because it is practical..but now I have a cell phone..to tell time. Often now I leave my watch at home. The watch I like to wear when I dress up is my pocket watch. Olde school here too I reckon.
Then again..I can remember when Michael Jackson was in vogue with this silver glove on one hand. You'd see guys getting out of their cars dressed like Michael with a silver glove on ...it busted me out laughing. What a bunch of monkeys..monkey see monkey do. Xerox copies. Talk about trying out for approval. Wheres the confidence if you have to do all that on the outside??? Not inside where it really counts.
Thanks,
Orangetom
As to what you are wearing ..yes it helps alot with different types of women. However I have met women who like a man in just jeans and a nice shirt especially if he comes across with the one ingredient most women recognize immediately ......confidence. This is a must with most women. Ive even dated women who dont necessarily like a man clean shaven. A couple of days of growth is great with them as long as it is shaped nicely. This was a surprise to learn as I had always taken a big bite into the clean shaven line. I still occasionally let my growth go unshaven for two to three days ..only shaping it up...It saves face so to use the oriental expression. Regular use of a sharp blade and my dull face...they never seem to meet on level playing ground so to speak...if I shave to much. But overall I do prefer clean shaven. I am hanging around my house this weekend ..couch potato ...saving face!!!
Yes...definitely be respectful in how you dress but dont let yourself constantly be like a new purse or handbag to go with her outfit. I greatly dislike women of this type.
I've never been into trophy women and dont intend to be this kind of man either. I have found trophy women in the traditional sense..to be overated...more liability than asset. What are most men thinking here...where are my jumper cables.????
Yes , understand about you being a merchant marine and gone for so many months of the year. Yes again..level with her. Put the cards on the table ..then she can deal or not deal with it. I agree.
Oh ..by the way..I really dislike this belly button thing..it comes across as sort of bubble gum like. Didnt this bubble gum girl ...you know ..that dingbat....Brittney or someone like this,start this type of popularity .or perhapsed reinforced it nation wide. There are to me so many women ..young and olde who are doing this and shouldnt. It too is like a xerox machine ..monkey see... monkey do. To many women exposing thier belly butttons ..in a offensive way..they think it looks good . I dont think so. Many of these women are not built for this type of exposure. I am not sure if it is the tops or the type of jeans that does this kind of exposure. Perhapsed someone could enlighten me here. Oh..and I hate belly button jewelry...I'll have my bellybuttons barefoot....thank you!!! I too am olde school like Dr Strangecraft. Nevertheless It doesnt sit well with me. You see so many women who are to olde for this or not built for it.. ..trying to get in a few more years of exposure/value in the marketplace with this type of dress. It really does become offensive. Wonder what kind of cheap rubbish they are next going to declare fashionable??
I dont like seeing men with jewelry on ..lots of jewelry...especially ear rings. I think it is very femminine. I have plenty of scars on my body from working..I dont need to add more by piercing. Same with tatoos ..they just are not for me. Olde school here again..I'll have my scars through honest work..not voluntarily self inflicted..thank you.
It cracks me up to see men who have to take all this junk off to get on certian jobs. You dont wear jewelry when you go into a ships reduction gear to do inspections or work. Same with a lube oil tank. Dont lose jewelry there either..so dont wear it. A loss of jewelry in those places could be catastrophic. It is the same when you go into a nuclear reactor...no jewelry. If you cant get it off...you tape it up..securely. I gave up on jewelry years ago..especially rings when I twice got them severely hung up on work I was doing and cutting into my fingers. I am not against rings per se..I own a couple but seldom wear them..mostlly when I dress up. I wear a watch because it is practical..but now I have a cell phone..to tell time. Often now I leave my watch at home. The watch I like to wear when I dress up is my pocket watch. Olde school here too I reckon.
Then again..I can remember when Michael Jackson was in vogue with this silver glove on one hand. You'd see guys getting out of their cars dressed like Michael with a silver glove on ...it busted me out laughing. What a bunch of monkeys..monkey see monkey do. Xerox copies. Talk about trying out for approval. Wheres the confidence if you have to do all that on the outside??? Not inside where it really counts.
Thanks,
Orangetom
hey Olde man,
I dont know if there needs to be a uprising/revolution per se. The problem with that kind of thing is that some opportunist will try to merchandize this new trend and it's back on the treadmill.
It needs to be a quiet uprising if that is even possible. Men just need to grow up and start thinking in new and different dimensions..as do many women. Not to become femminized so to speak..but thinking enough to get off the treadmill so many have put themselves on...unthinkingly.
I heartily agree ..respect women ..but dont mindlessly respect them personally.
I do like spoiling my woman occasionally. When I have time I fix her dinner and we check out a DVD and I put her in my lazy boy after dinner and rub her feet during the movie. Doesnt take her long to fall asleep. Its become predictable and conditioned..but I dont mind if it relaxes her. Long days as a apartment manager puts hard miles on her dogs..and she appreciates the relief of a foot rub. Amazing to me that more men dont know the magic of this formula. When she falls asleep I whisper in her ear..." Sleep...Sleep baby ..I'll watch over you " Then I'll clean up after dinner and plan the dessert. I havent met many women who dont love this kind of spoiling.
However ...this is not applicable to everything male and female in relationships. In some things or happenings as a male you need to draw a clear line..in what you will do or not do. Its just the way it is..as many women will try to move the line for convenience. Its just something you learn as a male. You dont spoil them in certain arenas. Bad move. They need to be taking care of this themselves. No safety net.
Oh ..and for the record..I am bashing alot of men...they worked hard for it!!!
Thanks for your post olde man,
Orangetom
I dont know if there needs to be a uprising/revolution per se. The problem with that kind of thing is that some opportunist will try to merchandize this new trend and it's back on the treadmill.
It needs to be a quiet uprising if that is even possible. Men just need to grow up and start thinking in new and different dimensions..as do many women. Not to become femminized so to speak..but thinking enough to get off the treadmill so many have put themselves on...unthinkingly.
I heartily agree ..respect women ..but dont mindlessly respect them personally.
I do like spoiling my woman occasionally. When I have time I fix her dinner and we check out a DVD and I put her in my lazy boy after dinner and rub her feet during the movie. Doesnt take her long to fall asleep. Its become predictable and conditioned..but I dont mind if it relaxes her. Long days as a apartment manager puts hard miles on her dogs..and she appreciates the relief of a foot rub. Amazing to me that more men dont know the magic of this formula. When she falls asleep I whisper in her ear..." Sleep...Sleep baby ..I'll watch over you " Then I'll clean up after dinner and plan the dessert. I havent met many women who dont love this kind of spoiling.
However ...this is not applicable to everything male and female in relationships. In some things or happenings as a male you need to draw a clear line..in what you will do or not do. Its just the way it is..as many women will try to move the line for convenience. Its just something you learn as a male. You dont spoil them in certain arenas. Bad move. They need to be taking care of this themselves. No safety net.
Oh ..and for the record..I am bashing alot of men...they worked hard for it!!!
Thanks for your post olde man,
Orangetom
Originally posted by think2much
Nice guys really listen to women, nice guys think of her first, nice guys will do anything to prove their love and worthiness, nice guys will compete for her attention, affection, and body. Nice guys will work long hours and two jobs to drive the right car, wear the right clothes, and buy her anything her heart desires, nice guys try to "win" her affections-constantly performing so as not to disappoint and to win approval and to feel like a man and be seen as a man and a nice guy.
It began with a push and a shove from society, movies catering to the emotional needs of women, made up a stereotypical nice guys that every woman fell for it...he has to be good-looking but just a little flawed...his weakness?...loving her so deeply he'd do anything for her, right? He has to have a good job and car and clothes and sense...and be sensitive... and her best friend and make her laugh and feel good about herself.
Viva Testosterone!
Every man is different. But I want to comment on some of the original post.
Nice guys really listen to women, nice guys think of her first, . . .
I pride myself on being a good listener. I will not allow my self to be berated by someone looking to merely "unload" on the nearest victim about their misery. I have told the love of my life the following: "Damn! I had a hell of a day at work. I didn't particularly want to live through my day; and I'll be damned if I going to sit here and listen to YOUR problems after living through my own! *storms off in a huff.* " But if there is a genuine problem, I'm all ears. You have to respect them, tho.
I think of her first, too. If I mix a drink for self, I make her one, too. When I suggest a restaurant, I name one I think SHE will want. When the kids pipe up from the back seat, I exlain that we're going wherever mommy wants, because queen mommy gets to choose. Now, she often says, "whatever the rest of you want." But the kids know: "mommy comes first. 'Cause Dad says so."
nice guys will do anything to prove their love and worthiness.
I'm right there with ya on this issue. I will NOT "do anything." I am a man who lives by a self-imposed moral code. It is not for sale; and a woman who loves me HELPS me live it out, rather than causing trouble. I would die for Frau Doktor. But I would not kill for her. period.
nice guys will compete for her attention, affection, and body.
Yes, I will. And I will win, too. I don't like fights. But there have been several men, boys ,really, who have hit on my wife since I proposed. And not by an accident. On purpose--after they saw the ring, and had met me. We'll just say that they were quick learners and realized that my wife is bad luck to them. They have each moved on, without looking back.
I think there is something primeval in man (or at least in me), that WANTS to compete for a woman. I believe it is important for a man to show his interest and his single-mindedness in getting the girl. John Wayne would. Steve McQueen would, too.
She is free to leave me if she wants. I wouldn't stop her. But no one is about to take her away from me against her will. And I am determined to see that no man gets the chance. I am more motivated that most men, because I have the best. And the man with superior motivation wins every single time.
When I was dating her, it drove me crazy that she was always busy. That every single friday was booked on her calendar for months in advance. It actually helped me. I realized that I would have to apply myself, if I wanted to get to the front of the line. I would have to demonstrate excellence, that I would make the best husband that she would ever find. The smartest, the hardest working, the most caring, best father. You name it.
On the other hand, I have high expectatons, too. She will be a good wife and good mother. I satisfied myself that she was the smartest, sexiest, and best mommy for my kids. I will give more than I get; and so will she. But together we will build a home and a family that lifts the world up instead of draggin it down.
and buy her anything her heart desires,
No, I won't. Money is a tool. For giving us security and a life together. I will do without a lot of stuff I want, and so will she. So that we have a slew of financial safeguards in times of trouble. So our kids have what they need to grow up to be good upstanding citizens. She and I will both learn to do without one hell of a lot.
"win" her affections-constantly performing so as not to disappoint and to win approval and to feel like a man and be seen as a man and a nice guy.
I already won.
It's funny. Several years ago we were at a social function and we were each in different circles during a game. I was the only one in my group, and she was the only one in her group, that didn't believe in "love at first sight."
We both had said almost the exact same thing:
I am a good enough person that I could be happily married to most normal well-adjusted members of the opposite sex. I am not helpless in my love. I CHOOSE to whom I will give my love and I will withdraw it if they are incapable of letting themselves be loved. I love my spouse because I choose to, and I have found that other person to be worthy of my affection. My love is not an emotion, that varies with my mood. My love is A Promise. Trust is something you earn over time, little by little. Love is like that, too.
Needless to say, everyone present said that we deserved each other, that we were the most cynical and "calculating" people they'd ever met!
The sad thing is, all of your grandparents would have agreed with us! (They wouldn't have let their grandsons act like eunochs, and their grandaughters act like such tramps, either.)
Jesus said "Love your neighbor as yourself."
It goes both ways. You are supposed to love that other person. But I believe my God wants me to love myself, too. Not an ounce more, though; or an ounce less. Just as you love yourself.
Originally posted by LostSailor
Ohhhh... I see... You don't think I'm a man.
No, I don't suppose either way, but I gotta give you hell anway. So, no that's not it, what I *think* is there needs too be is more understanding of what a man *is* and should be tho-and how it is defined/recognized.
No thanks. I have no interest or inclination to be a merchant marine, but I know what you are saying....but still, being "manly" would be only one aspect of what being a man is or should be
Originally posted by LostSailor
Hehe... Try being a merchant marine and not be a man. It doesn't work well trust me.
and again-you are thinking now what you do-is who you are-thus it is manly=you are a real man...but for various reasons you are not the norm so not part of the problem....well for at least 8 months of the year you aren't...for those other four months you still could be perpetuating a failed dynamic just the same...especially if you value only what you do (atypically hard manly work-which I completely respect BTW)as defining WHo you are-and what you have to offer a woman.
BTW-would you ever give up what you do for the *right* woman? One who accepted you for only 4months...but connected so well she/you fell in love and she was there 8 months later waiting for the next four months with you...you know what I'm saying?
Then what?
I don't even know you -but I take everyone too seriously -including myself sometimes
Originally posted by LostSailor
You read to much into my post, when will you people learn to not take me so seriously.
well maybe not to the extremes as other men do...but still where do you go to meet women, and what do you have to offer them. What do you present, and how do you present it. Chances are with only 4 months...you pretty much play the safe route of advertising what women are in the market for. Time isn't on your side afterall and so you're going to want to make the most of it...
Originally posted by LostSailor
"Perform for attract," I don't think I do this...
Originally posted by LostSailor
I also find it extremely hard to believe it has nothing to do with "what" you are wearing. Try meeting a nice wholesome family gal while wearing coveralls and steel toed boots. But what the hell do I know?
Yeah, what the hell do you know? Geez...someone women might find coveralls and steel toed boots quite manly not to mention as discussed on another thread if you play guitar, you could wear Wrangler jeans and still get some!
...so...you play guitar? I mean what else do you guys do for 8 months when not working... and not busy throwing the less manly men overboard?
But seriously, the whole idea of what to wear...I know what you are saying but really...look at what real women look for in a man and it's masculinity displayed in a variety of ways...attitude, body, displayed sexuality...and how is it displayed ...well that is subjective-in the eye of the beholder...guitars...working under a car...loooking good in jeans...hmmm....you don't need a woman to tell you how to throw on a pair of jeans and a T shirt do you?
But see the whole dress to impress....thats fine...for certain men and certain women in certain situation, and otherwise it's what is as flawed as worrying about the car he drives, the watch he wears, and if he acts in all the expected ways (performs)
but you get two points knowing better than to wear something that stinks
[edit on 29-1-2006 by think2much]
Originally posted by dr_strangecraft
I'm pretty old school.
So is my wife.
In our wedding vows, she said "obey." and I didn't.
Thats a very Judeo Christian tradition, so I am asuming perhaps you are "old school Christian" as well, or are otherwise unwittingly following the thinking, where her obedience is not just offered, but expected, but not by you, by God.
It is actually acceptable for a woman to "obey" her husband...but do you know why? It does not mean she is weak, and this is what her feminist friends fail to realize...it's because God demands a man be a righteous leader and responsible for his wife and family...meaning he then is accountable for how he acts, the decisions he makes and how he treats his wife with love and respect and how he runs his home and family in general...he is accountable to God for this role he takes on.
Now, a man that can truly live up to what God expects of him as a man and huband not only deserves a wife's obedience, but would also never ever abuse that, misue his authority, our practice any sort of unrighteous dominion in their home or lives...and that man is deserved of a wife who is willing and happy to obey. Likely as you point out, they are so equal in purpose it is nvever an issue...or rarely is...therefor it is symbolic of the TYPE of love and relationship they have-and this is what women fail to realize.
Women, if you have a problem saying you will "obey" in wedding vows...likely you aren't a Christian (which in that case, why would you be involved in a traditional church ceremony that includes such vows?) but most importanly, likely you do not understand what it means...or you are not marrying a man worthy of that vow...or you are not worthy of that man...and in those cases it is doomed to fail anyway.
So Dr Strangecraft...you must be one heck of a man, and one such as you would settle for no less in a woman, and she no less than what she found in you. But your happiness and success unfortunately proves you are the exception to the rule these days.
Originally posted by dr_strangecraft
A lot of her feminist friends gave her total hell. She told them that she had waited for a man that was worth obeying, and she though feminism means that she decides for herself what she wants and this is what she chose.
Good for her. There is nothing worse than people saying "You can't think/do that if you are a strong free thinking individual!! No, if you are a strong freethinking individual you MUST do THIS, or would NEVER do that and be just like the rest of us strong freethinking people" HUH?!?!?!?! That NEVER makes sense to me!
Originally posted by dr_strangecraft
Now. Don't think I make all ther decisions or she doesn't talk back. (snip) I have only "bossed" her about 3 times in 10 years.
Of course, as I said above , a man truly worthy is one who wouldn't do it except when he HAS to, and a woman knows it...and so when he does put his foot down...she knows she must yield...she TRUSTS him, and KNOWS she CAN.
Originally posted by dr_strangecraft
For my part, I open doors. I bring her flowers for no reason. I do both dishes and laundry.
As you should...not just or only those things, but whatever one can do to help out, show support, show appreciation, show love...when one does it because they want to...out of genuine love, appreciation, respect for the individual etc...this is more than acceptable, and brings balance
big difference from performing because it's expected, or necessary to earn approval/love etc...bringing things to an imblance
Originally posted by dr_strangecraft
For her part, she organizes my briefcase and day planner. cooks dinner and packs my lunches. Let's me go hunting and fishing without a lot of drama. She works hard to understand my hobbies and interests well enough to hold a conversation about them. She also worries that I am getting all the intimacy I need;
Exactly, because this is BALANCE! This is balance people!
Though, men need to be equally concerend about intimacy and sexual satisfaction. Women need plenty too!! Some women need lots! (some men don't know this...even if they are the ones married to her!)
Originally posted by dr_strangecraft
I constantly reassure her that I am. In the culture she grew up in, cheating men are generally blamed on a frigid spouse; What in America is called "if he was gettin it at home . . ." I don't subscribe to it, but that's her fears.
I know women like that...and I know men where it's true too...but I know men that get plenty at home and still roam...but then again, men should wake up and know if a woman doesn't get what she NEEDS-intimacy-emotional and sexual intimacy-AND the validation and stimulation of conversation, interest etc in her anmd her basic needs...she too can easily stray to search for those things somewhere else too...it's part of the problem of imbalance...
it's part of being a REAL man too...to know what it means...to know a woman's basic instinctual needs to be validated and have that intimate connection and their basic emotional needs met...beyond the money made, the house, the cars, the lifestyle, the partying, the kids, the keeping up with the neighbors-etc
For a man to say we don't have to run that race to be happy and this is why...we have each other...and show her that the rest doesn't matter...to lay down that law and know the two of them bring enough to the table to not need the rest of the race society perpetuates just to be happy...they have what it takes in each other and their interests and will always choose balance over society...in this they can both be secure knowing where to go...to one anohter when something is missing....aka unbalanced
Originally posted by dr_strangecraft
We've been doing this a decade. (snip)
She won't let me hang my trophy buckhead in the house tho. Call me whipped.
Oh yeah, you are whipped bad! Tell her you are mounting that rack over the bed so you can look at it every time you mount her...and thats final-and remind her she needs to obey you!
You know I'm kidding, right? You two are an outstanding example of balance. Thanks for your post
I wish she would post on here. she claims she's forgotten her password. . .
Her work is also insane this week; been out of town and will be going again in about two weeks.
On the one hand I want to say that our relationship is not "patriarchal" and "father knows best," it is true that my chair is at the head of the dining room table. On the other hand, we have to alternate the kids so there's less "noise" at the dinner table. One on each side of me . . .
We don't spend a lot of time playing out specific domininant/submissive roles in our relationship. When I have "put my foot down" about jobs she was taking that were simply not possible, it is also true that I have more experience than she does, being a decade older.
On the other hand, I was considering a move across the continent for a PhD program, and she was pretty traumatized by the threat of that; she couldn't stand to be that far away from her family. I was not totally sanguine about the position, so it was easier for me to say "we'll say within a day's drive of your family." If it is meant to be, I'll tackle that program some day. My family comes before my career. Just like it has for her.
I think when outsiders hear traditional families talk, they imagine an impossible amount of rigidity. But I don't boss her around; she doesn't step and fetch all the time. Her career is really taking off, and I am thrilled to cut back a little at work, and be a father who spends time with his children each day. We are flirting with the idea of home school, because we could alternate days of the week at home---but only for 2006 for sure. And do we make the change if our job demands might evolve away from that model?
I didn't really expect her to say "obey" in our vows. I wasn't holding out for it or anything. It does show the kind of person she is.
I'll tell you something else about her. When we were just dating, I had a serious midterm at 8:00 the next morning. I told her I had to cut the date short. I took her home and said good night. The next morning, as I was stepping out of the shower, there was a knock at the door. There she stood with a steaming hot plate of cinnamon rolls she'd made for me. Now, when is a guy going to see that in our time. A woman like that only comes along once in a lifetime.
I know, I sound totally patriarchal. But think about it. She got up even earlier than I did, say 5:00 a.m., to make out the dough and all that, cook it and so on, then drive over to my place before I'd even gotten dressed. And on her way to work in a hospital ER before going back to campus for classes. Just to show me what kind of woman she was and what kind of guy she thought I was. Again, one in a couple hundred million.
Without getting all theological and freaking out the worldlings on BTS, we can say that she is happier knowing that I am making some of the more complicated financial calculations. And I for my part am happy to sacrifice my best efforts to be worthy of her partnership.
I would say the key is less the question of who's in charge, as it is the fact that we both know that we are not in this marriage for what it will give us. We are in it for love, for the other person, and for our children.
When things are going well (which is sometimes), there's nothing like coming home to a happy family that is focused on each other instead of TV.
.
But you know those wacky leave-it-to-beaver types.
Her work is also insane this week; been out of town and will be going again in about two weeks.
On the one hand I want to say that our relationship is not "patriarchal" and "father knows best," it is true that my chair is at the head of the dining room table. On the other hand, we have to alternate the kids so there's less "noise" at the dinner table. One on each side of me . . .
We don't spend a lot of time playing out specific domininant/submissive roles in our relationship. When I have "put my foot down" about jobs she was taking that were simply not possible, it is also true that I have more experience than she does, being a decade older.
On the other hand, I was considering a move across the continent for a PhD program, and she was pretty traumatized by the threat of that; she couldn't stand to be that far away from her family. I was not totally sanguine about the position, so it was easier for me to say "we'll say within a day's drive of your family." If it is meant to be, I'll tackle that program some day. My family comes before my career. Just like it has for her.
I think when outsiders hear traditional families talk, they imagine an impossible amount of rigidity. But I don't boss her around; she doesn't step and fetch all the time. Her career is really taking off, and I am thrilled to cut back a little at work, and be a father who spends time with his children each day. We are flirting with the idea of home school, because we could alternate days of the week at home---but only for 2006 for sure. And do we make the change if our job demands might evolve away from that model?
I didn't really expect her to say "obey" in our vows. I wasn't holding out for it or anything. It does show the kind of person she is.
I'll tell you something else about her. When we were just dating, I had a serious midterm at 8:00 the next morning. I told her I had to cut the date short. I took her home and said good night. The next morning, as I was stepping out of the shower, there was a knock at the door. There she stood with a steaming hot plate of cinnamon rolls she'd made for me. Now, when is a guy going to see that in our time. A woman like that only comes along once in a lifetime.
I know, I sound totally patriarchal. But think about it. She got up even earlier than I did, say 5:00 a.m., to make out the dough and all that, cook it and so on, then drive over to my place before I'd even gotten dressed. And on her way to work in a hospital ER before going back to campus for classes. Just to show me what kind of woman she was and what kind of guy she thought I was. Again, one in a couple hundred million.
Without getting all theological and freaking out the worldlings on BTS, we can say that she is happier knowing that I am making some of the more complicated financial calculations. And I for my part am happy to sacrifice my best efforts to be worthy of her partnership.
I would say the key is less the question of who's in charge, as it is the fact that we both know that we are not in this marriage for what it will give us. We are in it for love, for the other person, and for our children.
When things are going well (which is sometimes), there's nothing like coming home to a happy family that is focused on each other instead of TV.
.
But you know those wacky leave-it-to-beaver types.
Hey there buddy
Yeah, you're probably right on that one! Then they'd destroy the value of a "real" man and women would have an even harder time finding the real ones weeding through all of the counterfiets!
Yeah, well I wasn't about to have "Vive Testosterone" T-shirts made or anything It's just an honest point I wanted to make that there truly is a shortage of real men in the world, and this is why women are disatisfied and confused...they know what society tells them they weant in a man and a lifestyle...and then while persuing such lifestyle with a man who is willing to pursue it with her...she soon feels the stale reality of imbalance and the void it leaves...
unfortunately it is because though there are the makings of real men out there, they have yielded to becoming a persona of what women want...and buy into the same race of what it means to be successful and happy in society instead of in real life...
These guys perform as expected by society and women... and sell themselves out in the process, and then sell women short on being what she really needs.
...and women do the same. They can dress, they have an education and a job or career...but so many women do not know how to cook, do not like to cook, or do not feel they should "have" to cook and take on such a "society imposed role of what women should do" Uh-huh...what-evah....mothers, teach your daughters to cook! She doesn't have to, but she may choose to one day-especially if she wants to eat-so it's a skill that may come in handy!
But you know what I mean...don't you Orangetom?
You haven't met any women who don't like that type of spoiling because there are NO women that wouldn't like that kind of spoiling! Love the whispering in the ear part too...but I wanna know...what's for dessert buddy?
Sorry, thats my sexual overdrive talking.
Hoever, since I'm on the subject, and speaking of pampering and now sex, I have to interject here about the perpetuation of imbalance on this subject too.
Ever have a woman want to "trade favors" so to speak...meaning you as a man "perform" for her in some way...be it fix her car, run an errand, buy her something/pay for something...or even do something non-sexually phyiscal for her like back/body/foot rubs etc...and in exchange...she will do something sexual...ever btdt? Ever EXPECTED that? Or had that proposed, or that payoff offered after you do something?
WTEverlovingF is up with that man?! (not you specifically Orangetom you realize, just men in general falling into a bad routine of perception of acceptable in this area.
People, men and women, please do not prostitute yourselves this way-it's not a good thing for sooo many reason and perpetuates a flawed imbalanced dynamic in the relationship. Tit for a tit so to speak and not tit for a tat.
If a woman wants to go down as a thank you...obviously you are in a relationship, or dealing with a whore. That simple. Now if in a relationship and her gratitude has her feeling frisky...fine-nothing wrong with that-but keep it balanced...reciproicate! Do not "accept" *it* as a thank you gift in itself. Ok, a birthday blow-ing out of the candle an exception maybe, but you know what I mean in general
Likewise...do not trade a non-sexual body rub for something sexual...trade a body rub for a body rub, give sex for sex-make things MUTUALLY gratifying for balance in all areas.
OK, brings up another point...mother's teach your sons to cook! And how to pamper women properly without becoming slaves to performing!
Well, don't let your chip get too big nothing wrong with being there to catch her fall if NEEDED...however do not play the role of rescuer to her damsel in distrest on anything on a regular basis! As far as what you will do depends on how far in the relationship you are in...for example guys, if not living together, and you are paying her rent...umm...STOP! If she wants you to move in..so you can pay the rent-DON'T!...really don't................... a merger for financial/convenient reasons is seldom a good one and I'll leave it there for now
Maybe I'll just quickly add you may never get out of what will never be more than a convenient relationship usually till it turns ugly and she has someone else to support her emotionally/financially...women seldom go for the "alone for the right reasons" role over the "together for the wrong reasons" role
yeah, I'm bashing the really ignorant ones too that work so damn hard at perpetuating the problems while in persuit of love
Thanks for your post olde man-good to see you!
Oh and about that jewelry thing and all the bling...OMG people get real. Oh and yeah I knew a man who lost a finger because he was wearing his wedding ring at work. in the military on the flightlin you will get nailed if you are wearing jewelry etc, besides a hazard to yourself it's possible FOD just waiting to happen!
[edit on 29-1-2006 by think2much]
[edit on 29-1-2006 by think2much]
Originally posted by orangetom1999
I dont know if there needs to be a uprising/revolution per se. The problem with that kind of thing is that some opportunist will try to merchandize this new trend and it's back on the treadmill.
Yeah, you're probably right on that one! Then they'd destroy the value of a "real" man and women would have an even harder time finding the real ones weeding through all of the counterfiets!
Originally posted by orangetom1999
It needs to be a quiet uprising if that is even possible. Men just need to grow up and start thinking in new and different dimensions
Yeah, well I wasn't about to have "Vive Testosterone" T-shirts made or anything It's just an honest point I wanted to make that there truly is a shortage of real men in the world, and this is why women are disatisfied and confused...they know what society tells them they weant in a man and a lifestyle...and then while persuing such lifestyle with a man who is willing to pursue it with her...she soon feels the stale reality of imbalance and the void it leaves...
unfortunately it is because though there are the makings of real men out there, they have yielded to becoming a persona of what women want...and buy into the same race of what it means to be successful and happy in society instead of in real life...
These guys perform as expected by society and women... and sell themselves out in the process, and then sell women short on being what she really needs.
...and women do the same. They can dress, they have an education and a job or career...but so many women do not know how to cook, do not like to cook, or do not feel they should "have" to cook and take on such a "society imposed role of what women should do" Uh-huh...what-evah....mothers, teach your daughters to cook! She doesn't have to, but she may choose to one day-especially if she wants to eat-so it's a skill that may come in handy!
But you know what I mean...don't you Orangetom?
Originally posted by orangetom1999
I do like spoiling my woman occasionally. When I have time I fix her dinner and we check out a DVD and I put her in my lazy boy after dinner and rub her feet during the movie. Doesnt take her long to fall asleep. Its become predictable and conditioned..but I dont mind if it relaxes her. Long days as a apartment manager puts hard miles on her dogs..and she appreciates the relief of a foot rub. Amazing to me that more men dont know the magic of this formula. When she falls asleep I whisper in her ear..." Sleep...Sleep baby ..I'll watch over you " Then I'll clean up after dinner and plan the dessert. I havent met many women who dont love this kind of spoiling.
You haven't met any women who don't like that type of spoiling because there are NO women that wouldn't like that kind of spoiling! Love the whispering in the ear part too...but I wanna know...what's for dessert buddy?
Sorry, thats my sexual overdrive talking.
Hoever, since I'm on the subject, and speaking of pampering and now sex, I have to interject here about the perpetuation of imbalance on this subject too.
Ever have a woman want to "trade favors" so to speak...meaning you as a man "perform" for her in some way...be it fix her car, run an errand, buy her something/pay for something...or even do something non-sexually phyiscal for her like back/body/foot rubs etc...and in exchange...she will do something sexual...ever btdt? Ever EXPECTED that? Or had that proposed, or that payoff offered after you do something?
WTEverlovingF is up with that man?! (not you specifically Orangetom you realize, just men in general falling into a bad routine of perception of acceptable in this area.
People, men and women, please do not prostitute yourselves this way-it's not a good thing for sooo many reason and perpetuates a flawed imbalanced dynamic in the relationship. Tit for a tit so to speak and not tit for a tat.
If a woman wants to go down as a thank you...obviously you are in a relationship, or dealing with a whore. That simple. Now if in a relationship and her gratitude has her feeling frisky...fine-nothing wrong with that-but keep it balanced...reciproicate! Do not "accept" *it* as a thank you gift in itself. Ok, a birthday blow-ing out of the candle an exception maybe, but you know what I mean in general
Likewise...do not trade a non-sexual body rub for something sexual...trade a body rub for a body rub, give sex for sex-make things MUTUALLY gratifying for balance in all areas.
OK, brings up another point...mother's teach your sons to cook! And how to pamper women properly without becoming slaves to performing!
Originally posted by orangetom1999
In some things or happenings as a male you need to draw a clear line..in what you will do or not do. Its just the way it is..as many women will try to move the line for convenience. Its just something you learn as a male. You dont spoil them in certain arenas. Bad move. They need to be taking care of this themselves. No safety net.
Well, don't let your chip get too big nothing wrong with being there to catch her fall if NEEDED...however do not play the role of rescuer to her damsel in distrest on anything on a regular basis! As far as what you will do depends on how far in the relationship you are in...for example guys, if not living together, and you are paying her rent...umm...STOP! If she wants you to move in..so you can pay the rent-DON'T!...really don't................... a merger for financial/convenient reasons is seldom a good one and I'll leave it there for now
Maybe I'll just quickly add you may never get out of what will never be more than a convenient relationship usually till it turns ugly and she has someone else to support her emotionally/financially...women seldom go for the "alone for the right reasons" role over the "together for the wrong reasons" role
Originally posted by orangetom1999
Oh ..and for the record..I am bashing alot of men...they worked hard for it!!!
yeah, I'm bashing the really ignorant ones too that work so damn hard at perpetuating the problems while in persuit of love
Thanks for your post olde man-good to see you!
Oh and about that jewelry thing and all the bling...OMG people get real. Oh and yeah I knew a man who lost a finger because he was wearing his wedding ring at work. in the military on the flightlin you will get nailed if you are wearing jewelry etc, besides a hazard to yourself it's possible FOD just waiting to happen!
[edit on 29-1-2006 by think2much]
[edit on 29-1-2006 by think2much]
Originally posted by think2much
...or even do something non-sexually phyiscal for her like back/body/foot rubs etc...and in exchange...she will do something sexual...ever btdt? Ever EXPECTED that? Or had that proposed, or that payoff offered after you do something?
Well, one time I made a bet with Frau Doktor about something. I wanted to bet money and she rightly pointed out that we run a communist household where everybody already owns everything anyway.
So I proposed a bet where the "loser" had to "please" the winner. I don't even remember what we were betting on. All I remember is that I was the loser in a technical sense only.
And her laughing and telling me "you are such a man about these things."
Does that count against me???
.
Originally posted by dr_strangecraft
So I proposed a bet where the "loser" had to "please" the winner. I don't even remember what we were betting on. All I remember is that I was the loser in a technical sense only.
And her laughing and telling me "you are such a man about these things."
Does that count against me???
Fraid so...
No, but seriously you know what I mean about how such can be unballanced you and Frau Dr are so ballanced it isn't funny!
I'm jealous!!
and send her a for me too since she isn't posting!
But seriously, I don't think of your relationship as rigid and patriarichal...because a truly patriarichal relationship is matriaricahlly balanced anyway...a man can not be king of his home without his queen
thats why I said a woman willing to obey knows she has a man to trust and wont ever be called to obey...unless the rare occassion need be-and then she will trust his decision more than blindly obey
huge differences
problem is...man like you are not raised these days and found in society...nor are women like your wife...
look at the outrage she caused within her feminist circle of "friends" whou couldn't respect her decision to commit to "obey" in her vows as a symbolism of the trust she had and the equality she felt in the relationship
From a girls point of view, as Orangetom, has seen before, allow me to explain what can be the uprising in the male species as a whole. PSST-Long time
no see Tom
The fact of the matter is, men like big boobs and skinny waists. You like the eye candy, as all magazines are filled with the same kind of siliconed, implanted, lipoed prove this theory, (Even my hubby has a ton of em)
SO why shouldnt we feel privy to making you feel inadequate, by pushing for Viagra, cialis, and all the other good stuff.
For years we regular women have had the desire to get even for all the years of the supermodel being the desire of our mates.
95% percent of these women are Harpies. They feel as though because they look good, they can get any guy they want, thereby warranting they treat you like garbage and emasculating you, all in the quest to fulfill their airheaded selves. Making what used to be the guy that stood up against the world into a quivering pile of jello.
If you wish to truly have an uprising, stop vying for the affections of the Porn star, and give the average looking girls a chance. I have found in my exploits with both sexes, the better looking a person is the crazier they are. Thats a fact. I promise you, we're more scared of you than you are of us
[edit on 1/30/2006 by denial28]
The fact of the matter is, men like big boobs and skinny waists. You like the eye candy, as all magazines are filled with the same kind of siliconed, implanted, lipoed prove this theory, (Even my hubby has a ton of em)
SO why shouldnt we feel privy to making you feel inadequate, by pushing for Viagra, cialis, and all the other good stuff.
For years we regular women have had the desire to get even for all the years of the supermodel being the desire of our mates.
95% percent of these women are Harpies. They feel as though because they look good, they can get any guy they want, thereby warranting they treat you like garbage and emasculating you, all in the quest to fulfill their airheaded selves. Making what used to be the guy that stood up against the world into a quivering pile of jello.
If you wish to truly have an uprising, stop vying for the affections of the Porn star, and give the average looking girls a chance. I have found in my exploits with both sexes, the better looking a person is the crazier they are. Thats a fact. I promise you, we're more scared of you than you are of us
[edit on 1/30/2006 by denial28]
Originally posted by denial28
If you wish to truly have an uprising, stop vying for the affections of the Porn star, and give the average looking girls a chance. I have found in my exploits with both sexes, the better looking a person is the crazier they are. Thats a fact. I promise you, we're more scared of you than you are of us
You talkin to me? Are YOU talking to ME? (think Deniro voice)
Ok, I can absolutely guarantee you are NOT talking to me... or if so...you are terribly mistaken!!
Next, let me assure you, no one appreciates a woman's perspective more than me!
That being said, I agree that women should be afraid of what passes for a man these days! Equally men should be offended as Orangetom is, by what passes for a woman! And for "sexy" these days!
Yes, men being visually stimulated are attracted to what is fed to them via the media-beautifully airbrushed, starving waifs with abnormally large breasts in porportion with the amount of fat on their body...or obbsessed with their body and entertainment career women having the money and drive to succeed in the entertainment business, who can work out with personal trainers and dieticians and cooks to mold them into the perfect women without surgery-but still making them atypical for what the everyday joe is going to find in his town...
So yes, men are visual and fed a barrage of images of women in which to form an attraction factor bias
but this is not really their fault that they are attracted to such women-men are visually stimulated...give them eye candy... and they will partake!
That being said, it is a societal problem that has perpetuated this "ideal" of a woman that most women cannot live up to, but it equally affects men as it does women. Men are sold on what to buy and then find there is a shortage on the market...and when they find it, or as close as they can get with the average girl, then they pay in so many ways thinking they've got to have her...
and to just find a woman and be getting some at all is the reason many men will sell themselves out, and to find a beautiful one...they will stand in line to mow her lawn, fix her car etc...to win her approval. Perform
I'm not saying men shouldn't prove themselves worthy of a woman...no...just makes sure she is equally worthy. Is that too much to ask? For equality and balance?
Not just selling himself to a woman who is thinking she's got to claim him, train him, an de-brain him, and mold him further into what society expects from all the perfect men in chick flicks...a performing drone in society
Women too are sold by the media on what they want in a man...the cute, smart, funny, romantic, caring man that would do anything for her...and he should have a good job and car and help her keep up with the joneses...and when they meet him, they realize while it's all good on the outside...for awhile...it doesn't tap into their core...they want something more...and don't know what it is...
surely if it was Brad Pitt, Vin Deisel, Bruce Willis, Ben Afflec or Matt Damon...Rob Thomas, Ushur, BillieJoe Armstrong, etc (there's a type in entertainment for everyone) then somehow she wouldn't feel this void...one of those "hunks" or music gods... who would listen and care about her...love her and treat her like a queen...give her a lifestyle where she could pursue hobby or fulfilling career or do nothing but lounge by the pool or take vacations and have it all...they'd not so easily feel that void they do with the "everyday" guy...or so they think...
lets face it...every day guys are not movie or rock stars any more than everyday women look or behave like porn stars...well usually but do the rich and famous "beautiful " people having any more success in relationships? Noooooooo....
...and this imbalance instead of being rejected for what it is by all, is instead continually perpetuated by society...men and women buying into the entertainment relationship propaganda of movies and movie stars portraying these ideal personas on the screen, and then feeding into the lie looking for the same in real life...and expecting it...and respecting it when they see others who have what they think they need, want, or would validate them as successful in society....keeping up with the jonesesso to speak.
Now, with or without that ideal woman, men are still going to be visually stimulated-it's just hardwired into the genes. What attributes they are attracted to and stimulated by are varied, and still often biased by the barrage of more physically perfected women in entertainment, however this is doesn't have to mean to aspire to reach the goal of getting with a beautiful woman he sell himself completely out at all costs!
See, this is what I complain of in men though...this one tracked thinking that to have the things society says they must...the right job...the right car...the right house...the right woman...or they buy into it because it is what the woman he get with sells him on as what she wants and sees as successful!!!
and what woman is this? The one that looks good and one for whom he will completely sell himself out for as the very crowning achievement in his life...to have what every other man would want...a hot woman, good/easy sex and he will spend all his time and money trying to attract and secure such...if not womanizing in general for a flow of such women to prove his manliness
and if he is not a womanizer (which I do not condone womanizing-I find it disgusting) and finds even an average women to sell his soul for, then when emasculated by this action and her...he then subscribes to worshipping sports or other "manly" things to assure himself and those around him that though he is whipped...it's all good because he is a manly man...he lives for football and hockey!
He buys the whole package society sells to him as what a real man is... This is what I say a man needs to reject as a whole
[edit on 30-1-2006 by think2much]
Men just need to redefine themselves and know they don't have to subscribe to what society says a man is any more than a woman need to subscribe to
becoming anorexic sluts to try to attract men to emasculate into being working drones on parade to purpetuate a *qulaity of living* as their symbols
of being a real woman in a *good marriage* in today's society.
When is a good marriage or success in life defined by the sexuality of your wife, or the submission of your husband... or the house you live in and the vehicle you drive, etc anyway?!?!?! Materialsm is understandable to a degree, it's nice to have nice things and it's great to make sacrifices in life to achieve goals of having a nice home to raise children etc...but it shouldn't be what defines your success in life or in your relationship
A good relationship is when you care about each other more than society, when you love one another both for who you are and despite your flaws, and when you compliment each other in thought, belief, and endeavors even when they are not the same, they can be complimentary bringing balance to the relationship-respecting one another because the other is worthy of that respect, not needing to make demands, because the desire to be balanced perpetuates equality and the act of compromise when things do seem unbalanced.
Supporting one another's endeavors and dreams, even if it's a hobby that takes time and money away from the other at times.
Selflessness without it being taken advantage of ....or expected.
Sexual satisfaction that seeks to always be mutually satisfying...really, how can you enjoy yourself or feel satisfied without knowing you are giving ecstasy to another?
So...I say men need to realize their greatest assests are within themselves.
Their ability to be men...real men.
Men who have dreams and goals and hobbies that are not fed to them by society, but are what truly interests them, men who make logical decisions, and have equal authority in a relationship and a strong pressence of authority to define half the boundaries of the relationship while being supportive, understanding of the needs of their woman and offering balance, not subject to being trained like dogs, but adaptable to learn how to perpetuate equality in the relationship and demand women respect that equality and authority on certain subjects... by acting in ways that are worthy of that respect
...and being a well trained performing drone does not earn it, (respect) or produce it naturally within the man, or instill a sense of it within a women either...
...and that is what ultimately always lacks...what she always senses lacking when she gets what she thought she wanted in her well trained drone...and is left ...wanting...for a real man.
[edit on 30-1-2006 by think2much]
When is a good marriage or success in life defined by the sexuality of your wife, or the submission of your husband... or the house you live in and the vehicle you drive, etc anyway?!?!?! Materialsm is understandable to a degree, it's nice to have nice things and it's great to make sacrifices in life to achieve goals of having a nice home to raise children etc...but it shouldn't be what defines your success in life or in your relationship
A good relationship is when you care about each other more than society, when you love one another both for who you are and despite your flaws, and when you compliment each other in thought, belief, and endeavors even when they are not the same, they can be complimentary bringing balance to the relationship-respecting one another because the other is worthy of that respect, not needing to make demands, because the desire to be balanced perpetuates equality and the act of compromise when things do seem unbalanced.
Supporting one another's endeavors and dreams, even if it's a hobby that takes time and money away from the other at times.
Selflessness without it being taken advantage of ....or expected.
Sexual satisfaction that seeks to always be mutually satisfying...really, how can you enjoy yourself or feel satisfied without knowing you are giving ecstasy to another?
So...I say men need to realize their greatest assests are within themselves.
Their ability to be men...real men.
Men who have dreams and goals and hobbies that are not fed to them by society, but are what truly interests them, men who make logical decisions, and have equal authority in a relationship and a strong pressence of authority to define half the boundaries of the relationship while being supportive, understanding of the needs of their woman and offering balance, not subject to being trained like dogs, but adaptable to learn how to perpetuate equality in the relationship and demand women respect that equality and authority on certain subjects... by acting in ways that are worthy of that respect
...and being a well trained performing drone does not earn it, (respect) or produce it naturally within the man, or instill a sense of it within a women either...
...and that is what ultimately always lacks...what she always senses lacking when she gets what she thought she wanted in her well trained drone...and is left ...wanting...for a real man.
[edit on 30-1-2006 by think2much]
Women and men are equally the problem, but the revolution has to start somewhere...it's easier if men just take back their manhood, instead of trying
to retrain women who always think they are right!
If they could figure out they (women) are ALOT of the problem and stop perpetuating the failed emasculation of men, we'd be on the road to somewhere...but it's much easier to just finally give them a real man...and have them go "damn...THATS what was missing..." and become truly happy and fulfilled...and then I it would catch on...but most men seem afraid of the rejection to try
rejection from women, yes, but also society and their peers...etc...if a man shuns a beautiful user of a woman...he's seen as less than a man...
when he should be seen as discerning
...when he shuns sports...maybe he's queer...etc...it's BS!
As for women demanding viagra cialus etc...there are MANY ways to please a woman...starting with her head... and heart ...and then working your way ...down...
men...just stand up and be men!
If they could figure out they (women) are ALOT of the problem and stop perpetuating the failed emasculation of men, we'd be on the road to somewhere...but it's much easier to just finally give them a real man...and have them go "damn...THATS what was missing..." and become truly happy and fulfilled...and then I it would catch on...but most men seem afraid of the rejection to try
rejection from women, yes, but also society and their peers...etc...if a man shuns a beautiful user of a woman...he's seen as less than a man...
when he should be seen as discerning
...when he shuns sports...maybe he's queer...etc...it's BS!
As for women demanding viagra cialus etc...there are MANY ways to please a woman...starting with her head... and heart ...and then working your way ...down...
men...just stand up and be men!
being a male, I see the problems with women.
I think a lot of teenage girls have extremely low self-image.
To the point where they will let a boy literally do anything to them, as long as he pays some attention once in a while.
I'm talking most rank-n-file teenagers, not famous people. I've seen gaggles of teenage girls where, in their clique, the measure of success was how many men look at you, speak to you, stare, whistle, or try to cop a feel.
Their whole goal is to be desirable. They measure self worth the same way as the working girls down on Bourbon street, by whether they get the man.
Men probably have a lot to do with setting up such a value system.
On the other hand, men have no idea what to look for in a woman. They just have an overwhelming itch in their pants, and they're looking to fix it. And the girlf that fixes fastest gets the crown. The trouble is, after about 2 weeks, the guy has absolutely no idea of how to proceed, except to fix the next itch he gets.
You know story of Faust. I thought Bedazzled was very childish send up of the Dr. Faustus myth. I could have made a movie where the guy gets his wish, gets the supermodel, and then slowly realizes that she's a total whorebot that doesn't do anything besides the horizontal rhumba. I'd write it so that if he leaves her, he's penniless as well. So he's trapped with someone he hates, because he thinks money IS happiness, and sex-on-tap IS success. Watch him take her shopping, while she complains constantly and blows money like it was a disease. Welcome to hell.
.
I think a lot of teenage girls have extremely low self-image.
To the point where they will let a boy literally do anything to them, as long as he pays some attention once in a while.
I'm talking most rank-n-file teenagers, not famous people. I've seen gaggles of teenage girls where, in their clique, the measure of success was how many men look at you, speak to you, stare, whistle, or try to cop a feel.
Their whole goal is to be desirable. They measure self worth the same way as the working girls down on Bourbon street, by whether they get the man.
Men probably have a lot to do with setting up such a value system.
On the other hand, men have no idea what to look for in a woman. They just have an overwhelming itch in their pants, and they're looking to fix it. And the girlf that fixes fastest gets the crown. The trouble is, after about 2 weeks, the guy has absolutely no idea of how to proceed, except to fix the next itch he gets.
You know story of Faust. I thought Bedazzled was very childish send up of the Dr. Faustus myth. I could have made a movie where the guy gets his wish, gets the supermodel, and then slowly realizes that she's a total whorebot that doesn't do anything besides the horizontal rhumba. I'd write it so that if he leaves her, he's penniless as well. So he's trapped with someone he hates, because he thinks money IS happiness, and sex-on-tap IS success. Watch him take her shopping, while she complains constantly and blows money like it was a disease. Welcome to hell.
.
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