Mexican troops in Texas!

Luda, what exactly is the biggest problem we face as a result of ILLEGAL immigration?

I just want to know your stance. I also never said it was a racist thing. I also have never said that securing our borders isnt necessary. I only say it is impossible, at least so long as we dont kill invaders. Thats a huge border. I seriously doubt we are going to erect a wall/fence big enough to solve our problem. I also know we wouldnt ever open fire on the huge number of poeple breaking this law everyday.

I offered a constructive, optomistic idea did I not? This was my goal, not to insult you. If I insulted you I apologize.

Originally posted by DaFunk13
I only say it is impossible, at least so long as we dont kill invaders. Thats a huge border. I seriously doubt we are going to erect a wall/fence big enough to solve our problem. I also know we wouldnt ever open fire on the huge number of poeple breaking this law everyday.

I already said - minefield along the whole border with fence and warn signs (so innocent people won't be harmed accidentaly). Minefields are not expensive to lay and very cheap to maintain. Few blimps and high altitude airships with cameras and IR sensors (also not very expensive) overlooking the exposed border areas. North/South Korea border is example proving that such solution works without major problems.
Plus fine every US company employing illegals +/- 50 000$ per illegal.

Dont forget those companies you want to fine are the same ones running your lives in the background. This is why we allow this. Cheap labor is what America is built on, for good or ill. We dont like it because we are hungry (not literally), but Americas companies are doing awesome so long as these people work their asses off for paychecks smaller than our cable tv bills.
Its legal slavery.

Uncle Sam pretends its a problem when it is the oil that greases its gears.

How many industries would be bankrupt nearly overnight if we completely halted illegal immigration?

Again, I am not advocating the way things are...but they are what they are.

You will not see a border fence, wall, turret, or minefield until our national fiscal policies are seriously modified. Just ask the WTO.

Obivions void check your signature. You appear to be ignorant of grammar and punctuation.


I take great pride in pointing that out.

[edit on 2-2-2006 by groingrinder]

[edit on 2-2-2006 by groingrinder]

ingnorant huh?

Sorry I couldnt resist.

Originally posted by DaFunk13


How many industries would be bankrupt nearly overnight if we completely halted illegal immigration?

Not that many. They would just have to start paying Americans to do the job for the wages and benefits that should be paid. If you cannot do that, then your business deserves to fail anyway.

My cousin went on trip to Tucson several years ago and got lost on Rita Ave. He needed to relieve himself and pulled over and found a foot path leading into the desert. It turns out the footpath lead to a staging area for illegals. Interesting thing about the staging area was the HUNDREDS of black terrorist masks and gloves scattered around the other debris that illegals had discarded.

[edit on 2-2-2006 by groingrinder]

So what exactly does a black terrorist mask and gloves look like?

Forgive me for being rude, but that is the most rediculous thing I have heard today. Are we to believe that the terrorists are comming through Mexico wearing masks and gloves, and then just taking them off by the dozens and leaving them on the ground?

RUN FOR YOUR LIVES!!!

On a direct note, McDonalds would probably have real operating problems if all the illegals were sent home tomorrow, along with most of the fast food companies who employ many illegals using the excuse "we're not the border patrol."

Originally posted by DaFunk13
Luda, what exactly is the biggest problem we face as a result of ILLEGAL immigration?

Well, there are many problems. Consider safety, economic, and social issues that result from Illegal Immigration.

First of all, it is pretty obvious that it is quite easy to enter into the U.S. through our Southern border. Because of this, ANYONE can enter the U.S. illegally INCLUDING: criminals, drug trafficers, and... Yes you've guessed it... Terrorists.

Second of all, MANY (I did not say all) illegal immigrants do not pay taxes. Annually, they send back about 16 BILLION DOLLARS back into Mexico. This is Mexico's greatest foreign income (Which is probably why they are trying to block the U.S. from building the wall calling it "a crime against human rights".

Next is the social impact this would have on America. Not to sound racist or anything, but I see more Mexican-Americans flying Mexican flags then American flags. I've seen some Mexican-Americans protesting the U.S. on the issue of preventing illegal immiigration in LA and alot of them were waving the Mexican flag around. And the language issue, it is pretty ridiculous when walking around the streets of AMERICA and hearing only Spanish.

There is much more to argue, but there are some of the reasons why we should SECURE our border.



[edit on 6-2-2006 by k4rupt]

Well, to retort:

Montana is also a huge state my friend, so why the beef with Mexico? Cant terrorists just as easily sneak in through Canada? Or bank robbers, child molestors, crackheads, etc...

On the second note...
The taxes they dont pay is such a small chunk of money compared to what US companies drain from their countries, so we can call it square. How many Kelloggs or Ralston plants reinvest into the communities they employ? We have done nothing but rape all of South Americas resources, be it man-power, or minerals, or agriculture. All so another rich white CEO can drive a new Benz. The tax arguement is silly and only pales to the amount of money your own companies steal from us by building their factories across the border.

As for the social impact...We could all use a little culture bud. Learn Spanish. Most other countries learn English. You do realize we dont have a national language right? And why in the hell would a Mexican flag offend you? They fly the Mexican flag because they are proud of their heritage. Are you?
The US has done nothing for them. Thats why they have to sneak here illegally to earn a decent living. US imperialism has destroyed their economies. Their leaders are puppets to US interests. Most South American nations are led by the US's lap dogs. Thats why they give em maps to get here and find jobs paying peanuts. Its all a boost to our economy, and appears to be one for theirs...but isnt.



[edit on 7-2-2006 by DaFunk13]

DaFunk, its people like you who will sit around after the Nuke goes off and blame others for not shutting down the border. You are the same type of person blaming people for not taking action after an attack, even though its your thought process that was responsible for the attack.

Train

Our foreign policy is to blame for our current problems, not lax border policy.

We have been in bed with the bad guys for years so your mom can drive a Tahoe and dad can use affordable gas heat for his 6000 sq/ft house. All this, in turn, makes some oil baron filthy rich. We are now getting kicked out of that bed for one reason or another. You dont have to be a genius to see that these same fundamentalist evil-doers were once our friends and allies. The balance has shifted and now we are the villains.

It has absolutely nothing to do with our borders. If you think closing them will help, then why hasnt our fearless leader built your wall? There are economic and political reprocussions you just do not understand.

[edit on 7-2-2006 by DaFunk13]

[edit on 7-2-2006 by DaFunk13]

I have read this thread and bounced to the directed thread as well. I think both sides offer great arguements (in both threads). Any time this topic comes up, I always side with 'build the wall'. I understand the drastic feel of it, but it IS a start. My opinion this, first limit access, then revamp the system completely. Perhaps allow work visa applications to be submitted and picked up at the access points. No visa, no entry.

In the other thread, there was mention of the feelings of the illegals. Building a wall would cause bad feelings towards Americans. I feel that the wall will only upset those who plan to enter illegally. If we as a country allow x amount of naturalizations and unlimited taxable work visas to Mexicans, we may be able to slow down illegal entry. Potential workers can come to the employment office and look at job postings by verified farmers et al, and apply for temporary postions. These offices can then issue visas to the workers at the gate. No visa, no entry.

The companies that desire migrant work simply fill out a form and send it to the employment office. The government now knows where all visas are working and for how long. Extensions can be granted at the office if the employer asks. Taxes can be applied to wages. These taxes can pay for the employment offices and staff. Naturalization can be granted to workers who work for a set amount of time, as well as a clean record.

I think this wall could be a long term fix. It may also strangle some drug trade as well. If the legit workers have easier access to employment, and the wall keeps out trouble, where is the downside?

I agree with Shadow that the easiest way to alleviate our ails quickly would be to allow lots and lots of work visas. I have friends here both legally and illegally and I am here to tell you they are only here for a better life. They have no ambition to destroy ours.

For every criminal gang-banger mexican sneaking in here there are a dozen american citizens who are worthless both economically, and socially. The fact is, race puts a common mask on a problem. Taxes, income distribution, culture-blends, etc...are all problems we have with people already here. A majority of these immigrants are here to work and feed their families, not start gangs, or terror groups.

The fault lies with the government screwing with their countries economics, and then allowing them to come here illegally, but not gain citizenship. They only want a better way of life. Dont erect a wall...find a way to unite us.

One of my best friends is here on a student Visa and had to marry someone to gain citizenship after flunking the $750 dollar test. She has been educated here since she was 13. (She just finished a bachelors @ a local university.) She is as american as any of us. She is a straight A student. She works two jobs. She speaks 4 languages fluently. Should we deport her back to Columbia because she cheated our system to stay?


[edit on 8-2-2006 by DaFunk13]

I have nothing against migrant workers, I just want em legal and paying taxes. If an American wants the job, he should get first pick. By the same token, I also dont care if the price of fruit goes up 200%. I can afford it.

I would much rather see americans filling the jobs also, but it is a capitalist market, my friend. One of the inherent evils of our dog-eat-dog system is that when someone works harder for less, they win the gig. We are in it for the $. The dollar takes precedence over our patriotism. It is the reason we are the richest, most powerful nation on earth.

A vew years ago, there was a story of Mexican AND Chinese military forces crossing our border in seemingly a probing, training foray--all in uniform.

I haven't been able to verify that or learn much about it. Have you or anyone else hereon?

I think it was about 5-7 years ago.

I think it was Arizona's border. But I'm not sure. Could have been Texas.

How would the Chinese military 'stray' onto the US border, did they swim?

We're they training with the Mexicans at the time? I wasn't aware that China ever paid any attention to Mexico.

That story sounds pretty bogus.

Perfect example of why we should have troops on the borders.

Originally posted by DaFunk13
I agree with Shadow that the easiest way to alleviate our ails quickly would be to allow lots and lots of work visas. I have friends here both legally and illegally and I am here to tell you they are only here for a better life. They have no ambition to destroy ours.

For every criminal gang-banger mexican sneaking in here there are a dozen american citizens who are worthless both economically, and socially. The fact is, race puts a common mask on a problem. Taxes, income distribution, culture-blends, etc...are all problems we have with people already here. A majority of these immigrants are here to work and feed their families, not start gangs, or terror groups.

The fault lies with the government screwing with their countries economics, and then allowing them to come here illegally, but not gain citizenship. They only want a better way of life. Dont erect a wall...find a way to unite us.

One of my best friends is here on a student Visa and had to marry someone to gain citizenship after flunking the $750 dollar test. She has been educated here since she was 13. (She just finished a bachelors @ a local university.) She is as american as any of us. She is a straight A student. She works two jobs. She speaks 4 languages fluently. Should we deport her back to Columbia because she cheated our system to stay?


[edit on 8-2-2006 by DaFunk13]

Worthless ???

I wish you could be put in their position, to know what it feels like to be "worthless"