Good remains triumphant over Evil

There's no evidence that there's anything smaller then quarks and co. ...

So, ASSUMING there is, then we are at a stalemate.

Both of our theories would hold true.

Your fundamental something's being never changing, always retaining the same something for infinite periods.

My fundamental something's being able to change just as a quark can change from one flavor to the other.

As for what energy is, it's the capacity to do work. Kenetic energy, potential energy and so on. There doesn't exist something called 'energy'. So, in either case the fundamental something's would still need to be considered as particle's. But when you hit the quantum levels particles can have both particle and wave like characterisitics.

Light, being a "wave" can be compressed in a fashion to create matter. this has been done before. One theory as to what light is that light is a particle with wave like properties. Another trait of the quantum level is that a vaccuum is not a vaccum, this has been eperimentally proven. In a vaccuum, thing's called virtual particles pop in and out of existance. This has been used in some models for the big bang to explain the origin of matter in the universe. While I don't know nor understand the full underlying physics behind these model's, the people who discover this crap, do know it very well.

Does it make's sense? Hell no. But this is currently how it is and experimentally shown to be how it is.

Originally posted by Produkt
There's no evidence that there's anything smaller then quarks and co. ...

So, ASSUMING there is, then we are at a stalemate.

we would have to assume because theres no evidence that suggests there is nothing smaller then quarks, just that we arent far along enough to tell yet. at one point atoms were fundamental particles, but now they arent.

Both of our theories would hold true.

Your fundamental something's being never changing, always retaining the same something for infinite periods.

My fundamental something's being able to change just as a quark can change from one flavor to the other.

your somethings and my somethings are the same thing. my fundamental somethings can still change charateristically like yours, just my theory doesnt base that as a reason for individuality were as yours does. it comes down to the definition of individuality.

As for what energy is, it's the capacity to do work. Kenetic energy, potential energy and so on. There doesn't exist something called 'energy'. So, in either case the fundamental something's would still need to be considered as particle's. But when you hit the quantum levels particles can have both particle and wave like characterisitics.

yes but energy is not made of nothing. it would be considered a mix between a force and a wave. it would be a force like gravity because it is needed in order to have any sort of action. it would also be a wave though, because it would have a frequency. mixing this together and what you have is energy being the force, not gravity, which gives enough energy to the barrowed energy to form something more. and during big bag the frequency was high enough to actually create matter, where as now because of the universe expanding, is at a lower frequency that can no longer create the matter it oncer did. this would show that at one time with these strings it was possible to actually CREATE matter from nothing, but now because the frequnecy of these strings is too low matter as we know it can no longer be created from nothing.

after coming across this, i highly suggest you reading this before we go any further. to better understand exactly what i mean by vibrations and waves are at the fundamental roots of our universe, and i quote "matter is just one of the tricks it can do"
www.lightandmatter.com...

Evil triumphed over good long ago. That is why the world is in such a sad state. It's slowly been building up inside of us, but we hold it back because we care about what society thinks. When our way of life comes crashing down in the coming years though because of the economic collapse which is almost here and the collapse of our climate, we will see how low things have really sunk.

Well, still reading that pdf file.

But in the meantime I did manage to locate and chat with someone who was well versed in string theory. What he told me was that these string's are one dimensional objects. Still physical object's. They freely vibrate, and from this vibration I guess, the other particles are 'born'. All in all, there is no "something" called energy. Energy is still the capacity to do work. String's are not energy, they are just physical constructs that freely vibrate. Quantum mechanics has already shown that matter does in fact pop in and out of existance, seemingly from nothingness in a vaccuum. Called virtual particle's.

Anyway's now the ultimate problem is definatly just our definition of individuality. But really, it's your definition against nearly a whole planet's definition.

well as they say, just because everyone else does it doesnt mean its right. at one time everyone believed religion was the only explaination for why things did what it did, and the people who founded science were the people going against everyone elses definition as to how the universe worked.

Diverting this subject back on topic...

If a person does not understand every nuance of themselves first and foremost, then there is a possibility that there is an element of yourself that would propogate a self-deception. Without knowing what you yoursef are capable of, as well as what lengths you will go to delude yourself, you can't truly know anything outside of yourself.

People for thousands of years have claimed to know what good or evil is, what right or wrong is, what is moral and what is immoral. Many like to believe there is some overarching morality which is obvious to every human being on earth.

We define and redefine what is right and wrong on a personal basis... those who do things that one person considers wrong may have perfectly justifiable reasons to themselves. Do they think they are doing wrong? Maybe, maybe not.

In order for "GOOD" To triumph over "EVIL", you must first know what good and evil IS... and I argue that this is not a thing that is possible without first knowing the self completely, because desires for things to be true or false sway a person in such a definition... and any acceptable definition must be free of human desire and fear.

Thusly... nobody has the right to claim knowledge of Good and Evil, nor knowledge of anything in all actuality.

In order for "GOOD" To triumph over "EVIL", you must first know what good and evil IS... and I argue that this is not a thing that is possible without first knowing the self completely, because desires for things to be true or false sway a person in such a definition... and any acceptable definition must be free of human desire and fear.

Thusly... nobody has the right to claim knowledge of Good and Evil, nor knowledge of anything in all actuality.

Even if one know's HIMSELF does that really bring you any closer to an understanding of anything? No it does not my friend. What you consider as good could be my evil. What I consider as my evil could be your good. It's completly subjective. There is no definable good and evil because there is no such thing as good and evil. You define yours, I define mine. Billion's of other's define their's in vastly differing unique view's of what is good and evil. Even IF everyone "knew" themselve's. The very definition's would all still be vastly different from different point of views.

So can you really claim knowing yourself give's you greater understanding? Nope. Not a chance in hell.

Originally posted by Produkt
Even if one know's HIMSELF does that really bring you any closer to an understanding of anything? No it does not my friend. What you consider as good could be my evil. What I consider as my evil could be your good. It's completly subjective. There is no definable good and evil because there is no such thing as good and evil. You define yours, I define mine. Billion's of other's define their's in vastly differing unique view's of what is good and evil. Even IF everyone "knew" themselve's. The very definition's would all still be vastly different from different point of views.

So can you really claim knowing yourself give's you greater understanding? Nope. Not a chance in hell.

it brings you closer to understanding why you do what you do and being able to change that. the good and evils would be slightly different but not as much as youd like to believe. mainly because good and evil wouldnt be based on religion or anything like that but on what benefits everyone as a whole. yes knowing yourself gives you a better understanding of what your doing and why. once you know that then you can see how much it really benefits you and those around you. whats WORTH doing and what ISNT worth doing, based on how much it benefits everything as a whole.

it brings you closer to understanding why you do what you do and being able to change that. the good and evils would be slightly different but not as much as youd like to believe. mainly because good and evil wouldnt be based on religion or anything like that but on what benefits everyone as a whole. yes knowing yourself gives you a better understanding of what your doing and why. once you know that then you can see how much it really benefits you and those around you. whats WORTH doing and what ISNT worth doing, based on how much it benefits everything as a whole.

Depend's upon circumstance's as well. None of you are taking into account a whole host of variable's that could upset the balance and would upset the balance and leave people with diffucult choice's to make even if the human race as a whole could understand fully any benefit's and such like that. You two are thinking so one tracked. Utopia isn't around the corner and never will be. It's a nice thought though

and every person like you makes it that much farther away.

but i guess you cant grasp the concept of a person who isnt greedy and works for the whole instead of themselves. cant really argue any further then that then.

Still not taking into account all the variable's that destroy the whole concept. It's not just greed my friend's. Actually ... you two are showing one of those variable's, as am I.

[EDIT]

What exactly did you mean ... every person like me? I lead a very good peacful life. I do no harm. I take care of my family very well. I take care of other's if/when I can. I've helped out total stranger's too. I fail to see how I amount to the problem. Perhap's people like me just don't think with a one track mind and are more open to all the variable's thrown at society and individual's. Something you two seem incapable of grasping.

[edit on 19-2-2006 by Produkt]

Originally posted by Produkt
Still not taking into account all the variable's that destroy the whole concept. It's not just greed my friend's.

Actually ... you two are showing one of those variable's, as am I.

what variable could take place in which a person cant understand which choice is more beneficial. no matter how complex a situation gets, there is always a simple solution. no matter how complex WE make the situation out to be, its always pretty simple to figure out what benefits more if we think before we act. usually those moments where you dont have time to think are the times where that moment probably wouldnt have come had you been thinking before hand.

also what variable would i be showing?

After reading through many threads in this forum in the last couple of months I have noticed that there seems to be a general tendancy to look on the bleak side of things and see the world and society as a negative evil undesirable place that has passed the point of no return.

I'm sorry, but we are long past the point of no return.


But thanks for the optimism. It is good to have a few of you guys around.

optimism, its the most powerful tool of the mind, use it. with optimism theres the chance you will not reach your desired outcome, but with pessimism you make it certian. sure theres the chance that a better world that people all work together and that people come to a basic understanding of what is better for the race as a whole could be a far distance off, it might not though. looking at it like its a long way off though makes that certian.

anyway yea its good that you have helped people, im glad to hear things like that. but unlike you im going out of my way to help people. instead of helping those when i come across them, i look for them to help them. mainly because that will benefit everyone as a whole in the end. there is still so much wrong here to go about life like people out there arent out there selling drugs because they werent given any other way out. i know all to well so i know that just helping occasionally when its easy for me to do so isnt enough.

[edit on 19-2-2006 by grimreaper797]

Grim,

If you can't think of all the variable's while acting as if you've got the answer's to all our problem's... What's that say of you? You don't sound like you've got all the answer's at all. I could name a crap load of variable's. I could list off the few I've seen in you. I could list of the one's in me. Would that help your argument much? No, not really Grim. Not really at all.

I'll post this again.

What exactly did you mean ... every person like me? I lead a very good peacful life. I do no harm. I take care of my family very well. I take care of other's if/when I can. I've helped out total stranger's too. I fail to see how I amount to the problem. Perhap's people like me just don't think with a one track mind and are more open to all the variable's thrown at society and individual's. Something you two seem incapable of grasping.

sure theres the chance that a better world that people all work together and that people come to a basic understanding of what is better for the race as a whole could be a far distance off, it might not though. looking at it like its a long way off though makes that certian.

Grim Grim Grim... It's called a reality check. You can't teach people to be optimistic. You can't force people to be optimistic. You can't even be optimistic and hope that other's will become optimistic. Optimisim has it's limit's. And not many people are wholly optimistic in this world. You can be optimistic all you want for a better world, it won't bring it about. Your life experience's dictate your point of view's. Other's see thing's differently based upon their experience's. When to conflicting view's come together over what's beneficial and what's not or what's good or what's not, not ammount of optimism or claim to knowing thyself is going to change either parties point of view's that've been formed from each person and or group's experience's through out their live's. Really, you need to stop and take a reality check and soak up all the variable's.

I'm not one of the bad guy's. Even if you think I am.

anyway yea its good that you have helped people, im glad to hear things like that. but unlike you im going out of my way to help people. instead of helping those when i come across them, i look for them to help them. mainly because that will benefit everyone as a whole in the end. there is still so much wrong here to go about life like people out there arent out there selling drugs because they werent given any other way out. i know all to well so i know that just helping occasionally when its easy for me to do so isnt enough

How do you propose I go out and help everyone who need's it? How are you even capable of doing that. My resource's are limited and those resources are more beneficial towards providing for my family. I don't have the resource's to go looking for people to help. And quiet frankly, I'm calling your bluff. Neither do you have the resource's to just help all the poor stranger's out there. You might be making small contribution's here and there through charities. I've done my fair share of those. Put in voulenteer work here and there. But there's limit's that I must set in order to provide for my imediate need's and those of my family. Don't take me for a fool.

things can be said one way, but interpreted many different ways.

i guess a reality check would mean to give up on people and say screw it some people are just doomed to being lost. being realistic and being pessimistic are often one in the same. to be realistic in this world is to give up on everything and just deal with it, deal with whats here. im sure people told martian luther king jr. or jackie robinson that they were just being unrealistic in thinking blacks had a place in society, that they werent equal and thats just how it was. that black people just werent meant to be equal to whites and thats just the way it was. did they go and say "your right, well always be black so we might as well just try to make due with the conditions you have given us" no they didnt. they said more along the lines of "maybe, but im going to try anyway because its worth trying for. its for the better in the end, reguardless if its better for me"

in the end, all you can do is question yourself and what your doing, and if the answers come out wrong, you might want to think it over. i question everything i do everyday, and everytime i question if what im doing is right, i look at all the people i personally know im trying to help and all those that i dont know who i wish to one day help. and THAT is what makes me say "yea, im making the better choice by doing this" because I see what is benefiting everybody. further more I get to see the effect it leaves for every person i reach out to and show them that theres still some hope in the dark places that they are living in. there isnt a thing you could say to make me believe otherwise because i get to see first handed how i help the people im helping. whether it be a simple conversation, helping them get a job, or just making things right again between two people who are having a conflict. while your in here saying "o its still a long time away, it cant happen in our life times" im out there tryin to help people in whatever way i can.

well i can understand how since you have created a family its harder for you to do stuff. personally i refuse to have kids or have to provide for anyone until things start to change. we already have enough kids that feel like they have been abandoned, no reason to bring more into this world, especially when we cant even take care of the ones we have already made. my family is every person ive reached out to because theres a connection there. i dont need to be blood related to call them family.

but one last thing, i noticed the help you consider revolves around money. heres a quote to think about
"Give a man a fish, and you feed him for the night. Teach a man to fish, and you feed him for life"

[edit on 19-2-2006 by grimreaper797]

i guess a reality check would mean to give up on people and say screw it some people are just doomed to being lost.

I fear yourself is lost if this is how you view a reality check.

well i can understand how since you have created a family its harder for you to do stuff. personally i refuse to have kids or have to provide for anyone until things start to change. we already have enough kids that feel like they have been abandoned, no reason to bring more into this world, especially when we cant even take care of the ones we have already made. my family is every person ive reached out to because theres a connection there. i dont need to be blood related to call them family.

Truthfully, our kid's weren't exactly planned kid's. However, I'm gratefull to have them. I don't view having children as a burdon upon my life as the way your describing it. By resource's, I feel you haven't grasped what I meant. Not once did I mention anything about money. Living space, food, time. Those are all resource's. I've given up space in my home on 5 seperate occasion's. Two of those occasion's to help total stranger's, which I got screwed for. I've given up what amount of time I could to help other's. I've given food to the food pantries. But it all boils down to what amount of resources I have to provide for myself and my family.

Seriously, how dare you claim or make it appear that your better then me. To sit there and try to label me as the problem. Your nothing. Your no better then me at all. You can play pretend all you want, you won't change the world in a heart beat. You claim to know yourself. You claim to think about your action's and decide what's the more beneficial thing to do. How do you justify that it's more beneficial to knock me down and label me as the problem when you have no clue what I do, what I been through an what goal's I try to attain to help those that I can?

Your a very confused individual.

im not tryin to knock you down im tryin to figure out how you can tell me that its naive to think we should try to make better. tellin people that hope is no where in sight? i never said i was better then you, but im not discouraging anyone to go out and help a person. unlike you who tells me that i need a reality check when i say what im dedicating my life to is unrealistic. my life revolves around reaching out to people in every aspect in which i live. i come onto this sight to keep up with ideas people are having about real stuff thats going on in this world. i do that so that i can see whats going on in the world and how the people are feeling about it.

i never said you were wrong to care about your family, nor did i say you were wrong at all. what i did say is that I dont believe that life is for me because I cant live with the fact so many in our own country are suffering, people that i personally know, and not do anything about it. like i said its good that you do the things you do, but theres so much more that needs to be done. that stuff like that just isnt gunna be enough. im not saying that because your not doing it that im better then you. what i am saying is that theres no sense in telling me to get a reality check because i want to do what you dont.

im not saying i know everything, because i definately dont. but i do know who i am, and thats all i have literally. you can call bull# on me all day you want but thats not gunna stop me from helping people like my one friend who lost his mom to AIDS when he was 12, never met his father and lives with his grandparents and his 9 cousins in one house hold. to me helping people that are in those kind of positions IS the most beneficial thing i can do. as i grow i will expand and reach out to more people who dont have a thing.

my life has been writting and rapping, and ive grown up on it. thats what raised me, since my parents were hardly ever home. my mom had 3 jobs and my dad moved out when i was in elementary school. ive been using music as a way to reach out to people, and though im only local right now, people like it and look foward to hearing it and buying it. i use that money to help people and my mom so that she doesnt have to work so much. i dont need you to tell me to get a reality check, im well aware of what reality consists of, which is why i want to change things.

edit: also yes you did pretty much say money. you came out and said you dont have the resources, since when is talking or helping some one figure out how to change their situation a resource? teaching a man how to make money is alot different then giving him money. teaching him how to build a house is alot more beneficial then giving him one. money and resources dont help people for the rest of their lives, information and knowledge does.

[edit on 20-2-2006 by grimreaper797]

I'm not saying it's bad to help people or try. I've even shown you just a few example's how I do the same thing. All the while, sitting here watching you try to label me as a problem. Heh.

And no, money was never mentioned as a resource. Maybe for YOU that's the only resource you have on your mind. For me, and I believe I've already stated thi. Time, space, food, etc. Do you realize that for me to just go out looking for people to talk to or to help take's time? Time taken away from my children. Time better spent on raising my children to become better people in society? No ... you don't realize that because you haven't felt the joy of having your own children. You can't even comprehend the concept untill you've experienced it yourself. You can't even grasp how it's not easy taking care of children. It's not like some walk in the park. Feed em. Cloth em. Bath em. That's not what it's all about bud. Take's alot of your time.

Am I going to waste my time, take that time away from my kids to help some adult find a job? No. My time is spent more beneficially on my children to ensure they don't come out that way. That guy looking for a job isn't incapable, he's lazy. To sit there and try to say anyone is suffering in this country because they don't have this or that is pure BS. Those people are more then capable to care for themselve's. They CHOSE the life they live and they choose to stay in it. My own cousin was leading that life. I brought her into my home. Made my son sleep in my room so my cousin had a bed to sleep on. Guess what happened for trying to change her situation. She took advantage of me. Stole from me. Wanted money to buy her damn drug's. Yet I still allowed people after that to live in my home.

Your concept of resource's is wholly different from mine. You think I don't know myself? You think I'm part of the world's problem?

Think again and reasses how you look at thing's. Like I said, you haven't ONCE taken into account all the variab;e's thrown at people in this world. If you really think little 'ol you rapping is going to change anything in this world, to make it a better place.... think again. You want to change the world, goto africa where people are really needed. Goto Iraq and help them rebuild. Goto any third world country and see how much worse off they are compared to those who suffer in america. Go see how those people don't have the option's in life that even a homeless bum in america has available to him.