Good remains triumphant over Evil

After reading through many threads in this forum in the last couple of months I have noticed that there seems to be a general tendancy to look on the bleak side of things and see the world and society as a negative evil undesirable place that has passed the point of no return. I felt compelled to remind you all that the picture needn't be so bleak.

I believe that if you look hard enough you can find the good in any situation. Even the events of September 11, as horrific as they were, had a bonding affect on people, causing nations all over the world to unite as one in a way that I have really seen in my lifetime.

I notice many threads on this forum try to paint religion as an evil controlling force that causes war and death and we'd be better of without it. I personally don't follow any religions as I too, believe that much fiction is core to their teachings. However, I feel that as a whole religion causes much more good the harm to mankind. Most religions see charity work, helping others and forgiveness as integral parts of their recommended lifestyle activities.

I notice many threads on government coverups and conspiracies trying to paint all governments as deceptive mind controlling administrations whose sole aim is to instill fear into the masses preventing free thinking and ensuring ignorance reigns. I personally feel that there is a lot of truth in these comments, but I think it applies to a minority of government members rather than the government as a whole. Sometimes the truth needs to be hidden from the people for the greater good. Even on an individual level, it is rarely the best course of action to tell the truth to everyone all the time. I myself am guilty of answering questions to honestly at times and as a result I'm often thought of as insensitive and cold hearted, because the truth hurts and it is not always consistent with the answers people want to hear. The same applies on a macro scale with governments and society. Too much truth can be just as damaging as not enough.

Too much of the time we (and I am just as guilty of this as the next person) see things from a narrow perspective and label them as either good or evil. Every decision,every action and every thought has a degree of both good and evil, and it can be perceived as lying somewhere in between totall good and totally evil by each different entity and each different point in time.

It is much more difficult to be good than evil in this world. To be good one has to follow many ethical rules and be considerate of others. Selflessness seems to be a pre-requisite. To be evil one has no restrictions blocking the path to achieving this goal. Selfishness seems to be the only pre-requisite. Yet despite this obviuos imbalance, the world is largley a good place. People as a whole feel compassion and sympathy for others. When we see an uplifting movie or hear an uplifting story we want to do the same and help people out. We want world peace and an end to wars. We even teach our kids to share and be kind to others. Why do we do all this? Because the majority of us choose the path of good over evil despite the obstacles along the way.

If in doubt, you need only take note of all the threads on this forum trying to warn people about evil and open their eyes to conspiracy and deception to see that the vast majority of us, are inherently good.

So chin up, keep this in mind, and let's continue to fight the good fight.

Good post with refined emotional energy. I would simply like to add more avenues of thought. By breaking down 'good' and 'evil' to it's most basic levels we can then get a clearer picture of the state of affairs. An 'evil' person is someone that is willing to harm another for self gain. A 'good' person is someone that has absolutely no thought of self gain. Most people are somewhere in between.

There is a war between good and evil but it's there for our edification. The external battle will go on forever with no winners, necessarily. The internal battle is the true war to win. But even then it's only a choice. You could choose to be neutral seeking only knowledge. Or you could choose to block out the experiences, choose not to learn and wish your own existential demise. All are valid because all will be played out in the infinite mind. Choose your destiny.

first id like to say, its never the better good to hide in deception. telling the truth no matter how cold is always the way to go. you tell these little lies thinking its for the better but in the end it may cause much more damage. whether you believe its for the better or not, trying not to hurt some ones feelings, lying will ultimately screw you over in the long run. the truth is needed in order for things to work. we as people never look far enough ahead to see the negitive effects of lying and that long term wise it doesnt help. ignorance isnt a bliss, and knowing is only bad when a person has been lied to for so long that the truth is overwhelming. now there so much lies that the truth could damage some weaker minds because its soo much to handle.

next id like to say religion causes wars, friction, and conflict. more good can come if people found peace without such structured belief. God doesnt need religion, religion needs god.

i do agree good can come in every situation. your greatest failure could be your first step to your greatest success. its your outlook that effects the picture you see. the picture as a whole is never bleak, its just the eye of the beholder that makes it seem so. at the same time we have doomed ourselves.
we believed science or religion was knowledge. this is our ultimate failure. knowledge can only be found within us, not without. science is information and religion is faith, but knowledge is knowing ourselves.
Knowledge without science leads to great peace. Knowledge with science leads to great civilizations. Science without knowledges leads to great destruction.

there is no good or evil as you like to see it. There are no good or bad people only good and bad decisions. the evil man is nothing more then the lost man who is in need of help and doesnt know it. the misinformed that make decisions based upon that and believe they are the right ones. the bible says to pass those evil ones, but does not say to help them. help them find out who they are and find peace in themselves. before you can do that you must find peace in yourself and discover who YOU are. you may believe you know but you dont. most people dont know how to. they think that because they know their personality that they know who they are. the first step is realizing you know absolutely nothing. take it from there.
we cant reach peace til we realize that book knowledge isnt knowledge but information. that science makes life easier, but isnt a way of life.

unfortunately the evil of ignorance is spreading....

just look at the kansas school board's vote on whether or not to teach ID....

i think the members of ATS should start a lobbying group called "Denniers of Ignorance"

Originally posted by grimreaper797
we believed science or religion was knowledge. this is our ultimate failure. knowledge can only be found within us, not without. science is information and religion is faith, but knowledge is knowing ourselves.

I'm not sure if I understand your point here. We can believe science is knowledge, we can believe anything is knowledge. If we know something, it is one less thing we don't know about, and some people believe that greater knowledge is greater euphoria/closer to God/enlightenment, etc. Knowledge is knowing ourselves? That's a little complicated. I'm not sure I know myself physiologically 100%, or even psychologically 100%. Does anyone feel comfortable enough to say they do?

Knowledge without science leads to great peace. Knowledge with science leads to great civilizations. Science without knowledges leads to great destruction.

Meaning what? Aborigines or other "unrefined/untouched" cultures are "pure" because science hasn't "corrupted" them yet? Wars happen without weapons. Unrest evolves from ignorance.

there is no good or evil as you like to see it. There are no good or bad people only good and bad decisions. the evil man is nothing more then the lost man who is in need of help and doesnt know it. the misinformed that make decisions based upon that and believe they are the right ones.

Wow, is that as easy as it gets? Let's get everyone some counseling and then the rainbows will arch across they sky and the birds will sing.

Are you saying genetics/socioeconomic/genetic/peer influences play no part in the decisions one will make in their lifetime?

the bible says to pass those evil ones, but does not say to help them.

Where?

help them find out who they are and find peace in themselves. before you can do that you must find peace in yourself and discover who YOU are.

The original poster must feel comfortable enough with themselves because they do want to see the good in the world.

you may believe you know but you dont.

That is an awful, ignorant, rude and selfish assumption for you to make on someone else.

I think you are just one of the poo-pooers who don't want to believe anyone but themselves can realize what "good" is. Shame.

I think the original poster is on to something.

[edit on 21-1-2006 by Rouschkateer]

I think the original poster made some good points, but there are also some things I disagree with. First off, I believe that lying is wrong under any circumstances. Of course, in certain instances in our society, lying may help things to move along more smoothly, but that is only because the system at large is flawed.
Also, most people may profess to be peace loving, but are they actually taking steps toward peace? (i.e. treating others how they themselves would like to be treated?). Just look at what has happened throughout history and is still happening today: wars are fought, ethnic groups are discriminated against, and people are starving. Don't get me wrong I feel very privileged to live in the US, but when the US government gives so much money in subsidies to farmers that they can undercut a third world farmer who's just trying to survive in his OWN COUNTRY that's wrong. This is just one example of a current injustice.
I realize that good things are happening as well and that advances in humanity have been made (eg the civil rights movement, world response to 9/11, charity initiatives such as Live 8, etc.) Anyway, I do think that people are becoming more open-minded and hopefully one day humanity will stop repeating the same mistakes it's been making since the beginning.

[edit on 21-1-2006 by Rock Lobster]

science isnt knowledge. science isnt knowledge, its information utilized to make life easier. science is good but not yet. just because you believe you know it doesnt mean you know it, its never certian. the only thing you can be certian about is who you are and what it is you stand for and your own thoughts. other then that everything else just isnt determind or certian. if you arent certian you cant know, and it cannot be considered knowledge.

you missed the point. Science WITHOUT knowledge leads to destruction. religion and god were the closest things jesus could come up with for people to hold morals at such a primitive state. we further in information but dont further in knowledge. this has lead to our upcoming demise.

apparently you dont understand, you wont need counseling. you become a better person by understanding yourself. youll realize many things. you also over come alot of problems. i have a genetic thing for being bi polar. my mother has it, her aunt and fathers mother had it. i have it but have pretty much overcome it by understanding me and who i am. i understand everything about me and its enabled me to overcome all my problems ive encountered since.

read book of genisis, it says a few times "pass those who are evil, continue toward the light." or something close to that.

you dont get it. his intentions are good but he doesnt understand basic things. his intentions for peace ar great, but most of us suffer conflicts daily because we arent at peace and dont understand how to be. untill we figure how to find peace in ourselves we will never find peace as a whole.

since i have yet to encounter a person who has found peace, i figure unless you can find me a person who has then well they probably havent. we all can realize the good, but we dont see that we have to change the inside before the outside
we know nothing unless we know ourselves. its not complicated, or are you saying you are more complicated then the world that surrounds you. if so your making yourself out to be alot more complicated then you actually are. in reality though....there is no good, only the good and bad decisions.

if you truely want to believe that science is knowledge while it destroys our planet because we arent evolved enough to know how to use it, then be my guest. but evolution was never science, it was an inner change. you can believe whatever you want, theres no question about that, but what will make you the most at peace in the end is what counts.

Some good points have been brought up here. Like I have mentioned in some other threads, and similarly to what the previous poster was touching on, it is important to make your own decisions based on what you think is best. Take as little or as much out of everything as you see fit.

In regards to all lies being wrong, I strongly disagree. Nothing can be 100% right or wrong. There are times when lying is necessary. An example might be if you came across someone who was about to commit suicide because he feared that he was unintentionally responsible for some terrible disaster. If it were true that he was, by telling him the truth you would be indirectly killing him. By lying you would save his life.

no see thats where your wrong, even in the situation you listed, you would tell him the truth. it was never his fault. he may have been a contributor but anything major, it never lies on just one persons head. there are many to blame should you wish to play the blame game, that goes for every instance i garentee it. even some one who commited murder. its not fully his fault. there were probably others to blame for emotional stress or problems, lack of people caring to help him should he have a mental problem. its never ones persons fault for something that goes wrong. he is just a person who contributed to it and the unfortunate happened.

everyone that leads to the outcome is as just as much to blame as the person in the end who causes the damage. in the end, no one wins with the blame game. you can blame yourself, but then you would have to blame probably 50 other people who equally contributed to the situation. our society like to blame a person, when truely all involved are at fault. even the person who was the victim is at fault as well. tellin yourself your lying to him when you say its not his fault, is blind in the first place. like i said hes not at fault anymore then every other single person involved in whatever tragedy occured.

If what you say is true then wouldn't I be partly to blame for his suicide if I told him the truth?

if you told him and he still commited suicide, youd be a small contributor yes, but then again if you lied to him you could lead him on another trail where he murders an entire innocent family because he snaps. he does this because you didnt tell him the truth.

either way chance has best, but if you tell them the truth, which is hes not completely at fault, just a contributor, the worst that could happen is he kills himself. the best is he comes to his senses, realizes he made a mistake because of the path he was lead on by other people, perticularlly liars who sent him in the wrong direction, and make better.

I know I'm asking for trouble here but I'm going to refer to a movie. Did you see the Butterfly Effect? After going through various scenarios where the main actor kept changing the future to see if he could change events for the better he came to his final conclusion. he decided it was best to lie to the little girl he loved by telling her he hated her so that she would move away and all of the awful events that followed would no longer transpire.

As I think you mentioned earlier, there is no right or wrong, just good decisions and bad decisions, and we must make a choice based on the information we have available to us. Whether they are lies or truths is not the critical factor, it is the intent behind them.

exactly, its the intent behind them. you attempt to decieve the person could actually make them ALOT more worse off then if you had told them the truth. each has its possible negitive outcomes. it comes down to the best decision, good and bad ones, and lying eventually always leads to the bad situation, alot more then the truth. maybe it solves the immediate problem but not long term.

like in the butterfly effect, as you mentioned. this is because he kept focusing on the immediate problem, yet never took into full consideration the long term effects. the truth was he could only save her if he never met her. at this point you realise at the same time the best solution isnt always the solution you want. you tell this guy the truth, maybe he kills himself-not the solution you wanted but all the possible tragedies after that are gone now. you may not want it to be that way, but it might be the best route in the end.

besides, lying will never pay off in the long run because the weight of truth always tends to break it in time.

Originally posted by grimreaper797besides, lying will never pay off in the long run because the weight of truth always tends to break it in time.

Is being found out that you told a lie the worst thing in the world? I think not, especially if it helps others to be happy at the expense of you being hated by them in return.

um no they end up in the same position they were in when you lied to them, reassured that its their fault. but now instead of killing themselves they kill other people because of the anger of being lied to, being decieved. not a good outcome

A bit extreme don't you think? Afterall it was only a hypothetical situation to illustrate may point. Perhaps in that instance you're outcome would be realised, however I don't think it applies to many other instances. Hindsight is a wonderful thing. Without it we must trust our judgement.

Grey Area.

Good and evil are defined by ones self.

All of us are different.

A man may slay a "good man" if he feels his family is in danger.

An Evil man may save another evil man if he believes he may help him, thus being good.

it will always be there. It's perspective.
neither will win.

-DT

its just that every situation has equal chance to bring out the best or worst outcomes. thats why its impossible to know what will happen, yet lying you take much greater chances in creating a MUCH worse situation then the original problem. sure you get the chances that they never find out and everything goes well, but are you willing to risk everything sometimes peoples lives, just to save theres or risk peoples health so that they dont feel bad? possibly hurt them even more then they were to begin with. risk people around you. i personally dont find it worth doing. when they find the truth, which usually happens, the situation declines rapidly and things get bad to dangerous, even deadly

Part of being Good is being able to distinguish and balance two things: the means and the end. For example, if a certain country wants to promote goodwill, it may be necessary to do some fighting to teach and uphold goodwill. However, is it worth it to start a war to promote and sustain good? Then there's serial killers out there. The end: Feel good for whatever reason. The means: Kill +whatever crimes committed. It's about being able to balance what you do and what comes out of it. That's only a part of it though.

Edit: Every time you lie, a piece of the grand mechanism, life, shifts and crumbles. Maybe things will balance out right, maybe they won't.

[edit on 1/29/2006 by Lifeadventurer]

Part of being Good is being able to distinguish and balance two things: the means and the end. For example, if a certain country wants to promote goodwill, it may be necessary to do some fighting to teach and uphold goodwill. However, is it worth it to start a war to promote and sustain good? Then there's serial killers out there. The end: Feel good for whatever reason. The means: Kill +whatever crimes committed. It's about being able to balance what you do and what comes out of it.

I'm not so sure on this part life.
What I thinkis good, may not be good to someone else.

if a certain country wants to promote goodwill, it may be necessary to do some fighting to teach and uphold goodwill. However, is it worth it to start a war to promote and sustain good?

I'm sure the insurgents or whatever you call them these days THINK they are doing right. they are doing good in their eyes.
The United States and the coalition is doing what IT believes is right.
Both sides see the other as evil. but YOUR PERSPECTIVE defines it. I'm not just talking about current events...it has happened all through history. Both sides believe they are good and the other is evil.

Then there's serial killers out there. The end: Feel good for whatever reason. The means: Kill +whatever crimes committed. It's about being able to balance what you do and what comes out of it.

A serial killer.
Many beilieve they are doing right. Kill the whores as they don't deserve to live. All Blacks/Whites or Indians must die. Some are just "nuts".
But that's why they plead insanity. Insanity is the loss of reason to distinguish between a moral right and wrong in the eyes of ones peers.
I'll say that again "IN THE EYES OF ONES PEERS"

It's cultural, if a woman came over to my house from the U.A.E. Wearing a full black gown and veil, I wouln't know how to deal with it. And If I went over to her house wearing nikes, jeans and a beer t-shirt, she wouldn't either.

My perspective defines good or evil.

-DT