infiltration

Originally posted by TheBorg
I suggest writing it down. That helps some. At least you won't forget it. Keep it in a safe place too, so as not to lose it.. just throw posts in several places, giving a general opinion on things... Don't have to be any more than a sentence or two. Racks up post numbers fast.

Yeah, I guess that works, but really, If I'm going to say something, I'd rather it be something that I put thought into, and can actually appreciate if I were the reader, rather then just another "I agree" or some other b.s. post. -Quality over quantity, you know? Better to keep your mouth shut and be thought of a fool, than open your mouth and remove all doubt.

Yeah, well, just leave some thought in each post, just to get the post count up there, and to at least contribute a LITTLE to the discussion. I do it all the time.. notice this post, heh...

Originally posted by Damocles



communism is great in theory, as is time travel. but the thing with communism is that it has to be implemented by a group of like minded individuals who want to live that way. you cant force it because eventually the whole 'you and your neighbor are equals and shall recieve equal amenities' is going to boil over. someone is going to say 'i want more' or 'i work more so i should get more'

doesnt work.

The interesting thing about orthodox Marxian communism is that, at least in theory, it is "inevitable". First, we must remember that no communist society has really ever existed. The USSR, China, Cuba, former Eastern Europe, etc., practiced a form of capitalism where the state became the bourgiousie, and every non-bureaucrat became a proletarian.

In Marxist theory, it's not a matter of everyone having like minds and trying something new, but is instead sculpted by the forces of history. Marx first required that industrial capitalism spread over the entire globe (which hasn't happened yet, but is getting there). This is because after a capitalist floods his local market with his commodity, the value decreases; in order to stay in business, he must either close shop or outsource his product. So he exports. Someone in the foreign market sees the new product, and decides he'll get in on the action, and compete. Before long, that market is flooded also, and both guys have to export, etc., until the product (as well as capitalism) has flooded the globe.

So by now every one who can afford a widget has one, but the market is still flooded. Widget factories close because demand is down. We here have the central problem of capitalism, according to Marx: a weird problem of overproduction, and a large population unemployed because of it.

By this time, the communist revolution is ready to occur naturally, at least according to theory.

So, what you are saying is (*stirs pot*) the main conspiracy within freemasonry is that its a communist plot?

Originally posted by Damocles
hehe thats the great thing about theories...they are just that. theories.

wanna hear some of my coworkers theories on the masons? (adds a log to the fire under the pot)

jk. there are theories about everything. and the beautiful part is as long as even one persons subscribes to the theory it is impossible to prove it wrong. at least when discussing historical theories or future history theories as all one has to do is say 'uhh well, it just hasnt happened yet'

The bad part about theories is when someone else takes that idea and portrays it as a fact without any supporting evidence. Then you have circular reasoning and things like "It's _because_ we don't have any evidence that proves its true! It's the exception that proves the rule!"

Hearsay and conjuncture may not stand up in court, but when it comes to casting a bad light on someone, that seems to stick pretty well.


I prefer less theories, and more actual fact. But then that tends to kill the conspiracies...

I noted the title of the thread was "Infiltration" so i decided as a neutral party to post some information i found on freemasonary.

I found a small book in the very desk i'm typing on that belonged to my grandfather called the Tennessee Craftsman. At first i thought it was a book on home-improvement but as i looked more closely i realized it was a freemason book. As i searched through it i found references to Solomon's Temple, the 47th Problem of Euclid, Tiler's Sword, Brotherly Love, All Seeing Eye, Scythe & Grave, at the end a passage that would let you into any lodge, and something about 3 immovable jewels: square, lever, and the plumb. At few certain areas of the book had pieces that were cencored like this *****. And for a responce to certain things were the phrase "So mote it be." The book may have been 50 yrs. old, it certainly hadn't been published in the last 20 yrs.

Since i wrote this i have had the book taken and have typed this from my memory. hope some of this helps.

Originally posted by Herbert_West
at the end a passage that would let you into any lodge,

This story strikes me as false because of that, firstly, that there is a single secret phrase to let you into any lodge, such a secret would be very hard to keep, especially if it was being printed in unguarded or easily misplaced books. And secondly because you mention this bit, but don't say what that information is that would let you into any lodge, almost as if you are planning on someone asking you what it is.

Also, almost any book, even one published for a fraternity, is going to have a publication date and publisher. Not every book, but many of them, even masonic ones have title pages with publication information, like who printed it, where, and when.

mirthful1, how can you be mirthfull? you are being so friggin ignorant.. that might explain it... ignorance is bliss, aye? and mirthfullness..

well, here's another point for ya

Originally posted by Nygdan

This story strikes me as false because of that, firstly, that there is a single secret phrase to let you into any lodge, such a secret would be very hard to keep, especially if it was being printed in unguarded or easily misplaced books.

The book that Herbert is describing sounds like a monitor, and practically all Grand Lodges publish them. These books are not secret, and the general public may read them if they want.

However, there's no big secret sentence that one uses to gain admission into a Lodge. If one is visiting a Lodge where nobody knows him, he simply presents his membership card, given under seal, along with his driver's license or other photo I.D.

If the Lodge who issued his membership card is regular, he will be admitted into the meeting. Lodge Secretary's keep lists of all regular Lodges in the world in order to verify a visiting Brother's good standing.

but seriously, mirthful1.. am I to understand correctly out of the topic title, that you "infiltrated" several lodges of masonry? or are you a mason and just giving an example of how it would go if someone out of pure curiousity would join?

In both cases I would ask myself the question, wouldn't someone with these intentions be spotted early on in the game and purposely given the false impression that it was just a cozy meeting of a group of friendly people..

Asking this because lots of information on the net has left a bad impression in me about freemasonry... it's difficult for me to simply accept nothing spooky is going on.

Originally posted by phiniks

In both cases I would ask myself the question, wouldn't someone with these intentions be spotted early on in the game and purposely given the false impression that it was just a cozy meeting of a group of friendly people..

I don't see how that could be the case. Once a person is a Mason, he has access to any meeting he wants to go to, including Grand Lodge. In fact, a few years ago on the newsgroup alt.freemasonry, a certain anti-Mason who was writing a book against Masonry himself petitioned Masonry under false pretenses, was initiated, passed, and raised, and then immediately resigned. The only reason he did this was because he wanted to say he was a "former Mason" in his book in order to make it look like he was an authority on the matter.

Ah, abusenet, gotta love it!