F-22 or the Su-37A

Originally posted by Ricko
This topic is funny i thought most people would pick the Rapter over the commie jet, guess your all nothing but COMMUNIST !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!11

you know.. russia is not communist anymore ricko
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My arse thats what they don't want you to know , but I think there still Commies once a commie always a commie!

F-22 Raptor Lay out ...

Weapons bay to reduce radar signature just like the stealth bomber

Jdam Guided bombs and blu-109 bombs

Aim-9m Sidewinders

AIm-120c
Agm-harm


And a 20 mm cannon
Features...

Technologies incorporated in the F-22 include:
A Common Integrated Processor (CIP), a central "brain" with the equivalent computing throughput of two Cray supercomputers
Shared low-observable antennas
Ada software
Expert systems
Advanced data fusion-cockpit displays
Integrated electronic warfare system (INEWS) technology
Integrated communications, navigation, and identification (CNI)
avionics technology
Fiber optics data transmission

F119-PW-100: 35,000 pound thrust class

The F/A-22 might also carry the small diameter bombs too.

SU-37 ALL-WEATHER FIGHTER AIRCRAFT, RUSSIA
The Su-37 multi-role, all-weather fighter aircraft demonstrator is the latest member of a family of aircraft based on the Su-27, which was developed in 1977 by the Sukhoi Experimental Design Bureau in Moscow and is in service with the Russian Air Force and a number of other countries. This family also includes the Su-27UB, Su-30, Su-33, Su-32FN and Su-35, and has the NATO codename Flanker.

The new feature of the super-manoeuvrable Su-37 fighter is the two-dimensional thrust vector control engines, which allow the aircraft to recover from spins and stalls at almost any altitude, while it is also equipped with full digital fly-by-wire controls.

The first flight of the Su-37 prototype was in April 1996, with a public appearance at the Mosaero show. This was followed by a demonstration flight at the Farnborough �96 Airshow. The aircraft demonstrated new manoeuvres, such as the ability to point the nose away from direction of flight for sustained periods, rotating the nose through 360 degrees and recovering from tail slide by rolling into an entirely different plane. State funding for the aircraft was withdrawn for a time, but it was restored in 1999 and Su-37 is undergoing flight testing.

COCKPIT

The cockpit is fitted with four liquid crystal displays for tactical and navigation data, onboard system monitors, and operating conditions control panel. The pilot has a side short-travel control stick instead of a central stick, an avionics control handle and strain-gauging (pressure-to-throttle) engine thrust controls. Avionics for the aircraft will be produced by Kronstadt, St Petersburg.

WEAPONS
The Su-37 can carry up to 14 air-to-air missiles and up to 8000kg of ordnance. The twelve external hardpoints can carry air-to-air missiles, air-to-surface missiles, bombs, rockets and an ECM (electronic countermeasures) pod. The aircraft is fitted with one GSh-301 30mm gun with a maximum rate of fire of 1,500 rounds per minute.

The aircraft can be equipped with Vympel R-73E short-range air-to-air missiles with infrared terminal homing and RVV-AE long-range air-to-air missiles with active radar guidance. R-73E (NATO codename AA-11 Archer) is an all-aspect, close-combat missile capable of engaging targets in tail-chase or head-on mode at altitudes between 0.02 and 20km, and target g-load to 12g. The Vympel RVV-AE (AA-12 Adder) air-to-air missile, also known as the RR-77, can intercept targets at speeds up to 3,600kph and altitudes from 0.02 to 25km.

The Su-37 can be fitted with air-to-surface missiles such as the Kh-25 (AS-12 Kegler) short-range missile and Kh-29 (AS-14 Kedge) with a 317kg penetrating warhead.

SENSORS
The aircraft is fitted with a multifunction, forward-looking, NO-11M pulse Doppler phased array radar, which can track up to 15 targets simultaneously and provide target designation and guidance to air-to-air missiles. NO-11M is manufactured by NIIP, the Tikhomirov Scientific Research Institute of Instrument Design. There is also a rear-looking NIIP NO-12 radar and optronic fire-control and surveillance system.

There are also systems for terrain-following and terrain-avoidance, mapping and multichannel employment of guided weapons.

ENGINES

The Su-37 is powered by two AL-31FU TVC (thrust vector control) turbofan engines. This engine was developed by the Lyulka Engine Design Bureau (NPO Saturn) and is a derivative of the AL-31F twin-shaft turbofan engine on the Su-27. The modular design includes a four-stage, low-pressure (LP) compressor, nine-stage, high-pressure (HP) compressor, annular combustion chamber and single-stage LP and HP turbines, afterburner and mixer. Each engine provides 83.36kN thrust and 142kN with the afterburner and is steerable from 15 to +15 degrees along the vertical plane.


The thrust vector control is fully integrated into the digital flight control system. The TVC nozzle can be deflected both synchronously and differentially, depending on manoeuvre. The nozzle is connected to the annular swivel and can be moved in the pitch plane by two pairs of hydraulic jacks. The thrust vector control allows manoeuvres at speeds nearing zero without angle-of-attack limitations. The vectoring controls can be operated manually by the pilot or automatically by the flight control system




Su-37 Flanker Specifications

Primary Function: Air superiority fighter

Contractor: Sukhoi Design Bureau

Crew: One

Unit Cost: N/A
Powerplant
Two Lyulka AL-37FU vectored-thrust afterburning turbofans, 30,855 lb thrust each

Dimensions

Length: 21.94 m (72 ft)

Wingspan: 15.16 m (49 ft 9 in)

Height: 6.84 m (22 ft 5 in)

Weights
Empty: N/A

Maximum Takeoff: 34,000 kg (74,960 lbs)

Performance

Speed: 2,500 km/h (1,553 mph / 1,350 Kts / mach 2.35) -- altitude
1,400 km/h (870 mph / 756 Kts / mach 1.32) -- sea level

Ceiling: 59,055 ft

Range: 1,390 km (863 mi / 750 nm) -- low altitude at 497 mph
3,300 km (2,051 mi / 1,782 nm) -- high altitude at 590 mph

Climb Rate: 230 m/sec (45,300 ft/min)

Armament
One GSh-30-1 30mm cannon, plus up to 18,075 lb including R-73/R-77 AAMs, AGMs, bombs, rockets, drop tanks, and ECM pods carried on fourteen external points


Su-37 Flanker Achievements
The Su-37 is first Russian aircraft to feature thrust vectoring control comparable to the F-22 Raptor.











S-37 Berkut Specifications

Primary Function: N/A

Contractor: Sukhoi

Crew: One

Unit Cost: N/A

Powerplant
two Aviadvigatel D-30F6 afterburning turbofans at 68,340 lb (303.8 kN) each (original) two Saturn/ Lyul'ka AL-37FU afterburning turbofans at 63,930 lb (284.4 kN) each w/ afterburner (planned)

Dimensions

Length: 72.83 ft (22.60 m)

Wingspan: 74.00 ft (16.70 m)

Height: 19.33 ft (5.90 m)

Weights

Empty: N/A

Maximum Takeoff: 74,955 lb (34,000 kg)

Performance

Speed: 1,555 mph (2,500 km/h)

Ceiling: 61,680 ft (18,800 m)

Range: 2,100 nm (3,880 km) -- typical

Armament
14 hard points


S-37 Berkut Achievements
The S-37 was built to validate and gain experience with various advances in technology that could be incoorperated in a future Sukhoi fighter.



The Sukhoi's candidate for the Russian air force requirement for a Mnogo-funktsional'ny Frontovoy Istrebitel' (MFI - multifunctional frontal fighter) is less known than its rival Mikoyan article 1.42.Vladimir Ilyushin, Sukhoi's veteran test pilot, revealed in mid 1997 that the aircraft was "close to completion", adding that it will be a "worldwide sensation" when it is unveiled. The scarce information on Simonov's new fighter indicate that it had already underwent high-speed taxi tests by the end of the summer and made its maiden flight at Zhukovsky at September 25th, 1997, in hands of Sukhoi's test pilot Igor Votintsev.

Forward Swept Wing The early Soviet designs to feature moderately forward swept wing were Belyaev's DB-LK and Babochka aircraft and Mikoyan Gurevitch PBSh-2 (MiG-6) biplane. Captured at the end of WWII, German FSW Junkers Ju-287 was test flown by German and Russiancrews. A six engined EF-131 was build and underwent extensive structural and flight testing until 1947, when theme was closed. At about the same time Pavel Tsybin build several testbeds LL (Letauchaya Laboratoriya) -1, -2 and -3 with stright, swept back and forward swept wings respectively (40 degrees).The LL-1 and LL-3 rocket powered gliders performed number of powered flights and provided TsAGI with much needed FSW data. In one of the flights LL-3 reached Mach 0.97 in dive.

Sukhoi Fifth-generation Fighter Philosophy The FSW is a better performer at high angles of attack in post-stall manoeuvring much needed in close-in dogfight.The fact that Simonov had chosen FSW for his fifth-generation fighter once again confirms Sukhoi's commitment to the superagility as a crucial requirement for the next generation air-superiority fighter. This approach, so much different from western concepts of stealth, supercruise and BVR engagements, was taken to the limits in Su-37. The FSW S-32 fitted with TVC expected to outperform its stalemate in close-in dogfight involving post-stall flight regimes. Having the edge in manoeuvring, the S-32 is clearly catching up in stealth with US and European new-generation fighters.However even with its internal weapon bay and RAM coating, the new Sukhoi is a very different concept than F-22. The heavy accent on RAM rather than radar absorbing structures (RAS) is obvious. The reason for such attitude is not clear, although a combination of the technology limitations and operational doctrine is most likely candidate.The major components of radar stealth RAM coatings and surface quality are subject to the production and maintenance tolerance as it was shown by USAF F-117 and B-2 operational experience.Untightened screws, scratches or unfastened access panels were known to greatly deteriorate the RCS of the aircraft, reducing the engineering efforts put into aircraft design. It remains to be seen how Sukhoi will overcome the looser production standards of the Russian aircraft plans.

Powerplant The ultimate S-32 powerplant Al-37FU operates in automatic and manual modes.In manual mode the nozzle deflection angle is set by the pilot, and in automatic mode the axi-symmetric nozzles are controlled by the MNPK Avionika full-authority, digital fly-by-wire flight control system (FCS). The movable in pitch axis nozzle deflects �15 degree at 30 deg/s by a pair of hydraulic jacks.The production Al-37FU will use jet fuel instead of hydraulic liquid to drive the nozzles. Surprisingly, as a temporal solution, instead of similar and widely available Su-27 Flanker's Al-31F powerplants, the S-32 prototype received a pair of Perm Aviadvigatel D-30F6 engines used on MiG-31 Foxhound interceptors. Designed by the 1980, this full authority digital engine control (FADEC) engine comprises six interchangeable modules and a core module. Although powerplant accumulated several thousand flight hours and experienced no operational drawbacks, it has estimated 300 hrs life between overhauls (Russian engine maintenance is very different from western philosophy and term "overhauls" has a different meaning). There were no reports on TVC versions of D-30F6.

Avionics In early September, defence-ministry acquisition chief Col Gen Anatoly Sitnov noted: "What is the use of developing the Sukhoi fifth-generation fighter, if the aircraft's cockpit dates back to a second- or third-generation design?" While Sitnov statement clearly implying the state of the art of the S-32, one can hardly expect that a first test airframe will incorporate all innovations planned for the series production. Similarly, the sole Su-37 demonstrator flies with a counterweight instead of the advanced radar hence the aircraft is intended to explore among other things the trust vectoring modes of the new powerplant. However, the Su-37 fighter will have the top notch avionics suit which is tested on other 700 series airframes Sukhoi Su-35s. It is expected that the sophistication of S-32 cockpit and avionics suit should at least match that of forth-and-a-half generation Su-35 and Su-37 aircraft.The cockpit of the S-32 does most certainly feature the color liquid crystal MFDs and wide angle HUD. The test proven in Su-37 demonstrator inclined pilot seat, a fixed pressure sensitive throttle and side-stick controller will also find its way to the cockpit of new fighter expected to impose even greater G-loads on pilot than superagile Su-37.

Armament The armament of the S-32 will most likely never get close to the air-to-air arsenal of Mikoyan's article 1.42, enjoying super long range K-37.However the ram jet version of AA-12 Adder, R-77PD (RVV-AE-PD), seems to be the most appropriate long stick for the new fighter. The missile's collapsible lattice stabilizers give R-77 family the compactness well suited for the internal weapon bay(s) of the stealth S-32.However, the aerodynamically superior lattice stabilizers have reportedly a much greater RCS than conventional surfaces, thus potentially revealing the position of the aircraft at the moment of the missile launch.The exact number of weapon bays is not known, although the total number of the hardpoints will be fourteen. The use of the internal/external weapon loads will depend on the mission.

please dont mix these two up.
I think that the Berkut will easliy take the f-22 and the Flanker will be almost even with the f-22.










[Edited on 5-10-2003 by Russian]

O really. Since there is no real evidence to suggest that either one win a battle it has come down to opinions. Well will just have to wait for some real combat.

I wish that f-22 and s-37 perkut wont hae to fight!

Having further researched this a bit....

Question:
What are the numbers on the Su-37? I have found no numbers of Su-37's built except one. In fact, there was only ever one Su-37. The Su-35 converted into the Su-37 and back into Su-35 status and that crashed in December 2002. This was the famous aircraft coded: 711. The Su-35 carried the codename "Flanker E variant 1". The Su-37 carried the codename "Flanker E variant 2".

This is the aircraft originally known as the Su-37 that crashed:



My understanding is that the video that is circulating the internet is also of this very same aircraft.


regards
seekerof

I read somewhere that Russia will have 150 Berkuts by 2007 in service.
Sorry I forgot where I read this.

Berkuts....you are speaking of the S-37 now dubbed the Su-47?
Swept wing forward Su-47?
Perhaps.....
I would think it would fall under the same factors as the Su-37A Flanker.....costs, finances...plus the modernization of the existing air force and components thereof.

I might be wrong though.....


regards
seekerof

Welp, let me go ahead a make your all's day.......
"Raptor's" first action.
The details were slim but the picture is huge and well....pretty breathtaking....


EDWARDS AIR FORCE BASE, Calif. -- Four F/A-22 Raptors fly over the Mojave Desert during a landmark test mission. A record number of seven Raptors were airborne simultaneously during several test missions Aug. 29 (U.S. Air force photo by Kevin Robertson)


Enjoy but be patient.


regards
seekerof

the Berkut is s-37/su-47.
s-37 and su-47 is the same

Sukhoi Su-47 (formerly known as the S-37 Berkut)



What's in the Name?
The S-32 (do not mix with Su-32!) is an internal Sukhoi OKB designation which is rationalized in terms of commonly used yet controversial indexing originated with Sukhoi Su-7 and Su-9 prototypes. These were designated S-1 and T-1 respectively, with "S" being a first letter of swept wing in Russian "Strelovidnoe krylo" and "T" from the Russian for delta wing "Treugol'noe krylo". Clearly, the "S" in S-32 implies that new Sukhoi has a swept wing but the index conflicts with another S-32 taken by Sukhoi Su-17 prototypes few decades ago. There is a great deal of hints that S-32 is a phony designation and presently a different designation is used in conjunction with new Sukhoi fighter -- S-37 (do not mix with Su-37!). The S-37 index was formerly allocated to a single-engined lightweight multirole combat aircraft broadly similar to French Rafale which was cancelled in 1994. In any event, both S-32 and S-37 are internal bureau designation, and could become Su- anything. Reported name of S-37 is Berkut (Ber-koot) which means golden eagle in Russian.

su-47/s-37 info

Originally posted by SectorGaza

Originally posted by SectorGaza
1. su-37/47/mig-39 etc.. are just testbeds for the future russian fighter aircraft now named pal-fa

2. stop playing ace combat 4

AHEM

but im not sure about the su-47, i heard it might go into production also.

[Edited on 30-9-2003 by SectorGaza]

n e 1 tryed Ace Combat 3 Electrosphere??

no sorry this is not a game disscution thread

Just a thought....

Both aircraft rely on FBW to keep the aircraft's flight stable at all times, right???
especially on the F/A-22....

wouldn't both aircraft go spiraling out of control and crash if hit with an EMP weapon directly or even indirectly...

....considering how both aircraft are inherently unstable and rely on computers to keep them flying.....

although if i am not mistaken the Su-37A retains some analog controls...
so the Su-37A is theoretically superior in this kind of situation..
i could be totally off the mark.....
but again, just a thought...

Originally posted by MarkLuitzen
I like the f22 but one point. This plane not as powerfull as it has to be if it is not shielded for strong eletro magnetic weopons. like missles which create a electromag. shockwave with a yield that it could hit the plane even if it is not a direct hit.

The F-26 STALMA should have EMP protection (if it ever flies).

www.stavatti.com...

Thanks for the link, SeekerOf!

A bold, new combat aircraft designed by the legendary Sukhoi Design Bureau and now undergoing tests in Russia has taken aim at America's next-generation fighter, the F-22. The Russian challenge comes in the form of the single-seat Sukhoi S-37, the world�s first combat aircraft to successfully exploit forward-swept wing (FSW) technology.

First word of the S-37 leaked to the West in 1997, and took Western defense analysts by surprise. Now, after more than 120 test flights at the secret Zhukovsky Flight Test Center near Moscow, it is clear that there is nothing like this bird flying anywhere in the world today. Its creator, the Sukhoi group, is considered to be Russia's premier combat aircraft producer. Sukhoi currently produces a family of topnotch operational fighters and fighter-bombers all based on the very agile and powerful Su-27 air superiority fighter. These include such models as the Su-33 aircraft carrier-based air defense fighter and the thrust-vectoring Su-37, a fighter and ground-attack aircraft. The general director of the Sukhoi Design Bureau and the Sukhoi Aviation Military-Industrial Complex, Mikhail Pogosyan, is proud of his company�s success. But looking to the future, he sees the need to build a fifth-generation fighter and to find an eventual replacement for the Su-27. "The S-37 program [has] a critical importance for the development of our company," he tells POPULAR MECHANICS.

More on S-37

This video is pretty sweet. Thrust Vectoring looks excellent. The landing looked kind of rough but I don't have much to compare them to.

bemil.chosun.com...

"It is a common misconception that Sukhoi's S-37 Berkut (Golden Eagle) is Russia's next fighter - it may or may not be, but should heavily influence it's design."

Source : www.geocities.com...

Those of you who thought the russian military aviation industry was fund starved and upto nothing, be prepared to eat your words.

Its not long before