The Netherlands may ban the Burqa

There's a big differenace between wearing Nikes and wearing burqas.



Some women don't even want to take them off for job interviews and then they apply for social services money because they can't get a job.

Here's an article on it that also mentions the burqa ban:

despardes

A spokeswoman for the city authorities said Utrecht was the first Dutch city to insist that burqa-wearing women take off the traditional garment that completely obscures the face if wearing it was an impediment to finding a job.

The ruling came after two Muslim women receiving social benefits made clear to the city authorities that they would on principle not remove their burqas for job interviews.

The women, who were not named, said they were not prepared to adopt alternative headscarves that did not obscure the face.

Why is nudity banned? Isn't it IGNORANT to demand people wear clothes just because it "offends" some? Yes or no? You can argue back and forth for yonks but if it is the law, it is the law.

You can deny that burqas frighten and offend people all you like but that doesn't make it so. Like the swastica, burqas have become a symbol of a threatening and dangerous belief, DUE to people who demand the right to wear them not those you so ignorantly accuse of being ignorant. If a countries people chooses to ban them for this reason they have that right, more so than banning nudity.

I am so tired of people who want to sound P.C. without having the guts to address admittedly, sensative yet extreemly relevant issues.

It is ignorant to just say, "let everyone do what they will" because the topic is difficult, which I admit it is, but maybe if they really understood that, and why, their NOT REQUIRED dress caused fear in their FELLOW CITIZENS, they would CARE ENOUGH about them, to be, and make everyone else, happy with modest dress.

No Ace, I see this at a clear attempt at just smearing Muslims. OK, do we get rid of the Fez(not Nike's) as well because of it's origin? I'm sure the Shriners will take offense to that.

Originally posted by suzy ryan
Isn't it IGNORANT to demand people wear clothes just because it "offends" some? Yes or no?

Well... yes... of course it is... you are born naked... it is an effect of the inadequacies of the self-loathing...

Originally posted by suzy ryan
You can argue back and forth for yonks but if it is the law, it is the law.

TALK ABOUT BEING POLITICALLY CORRECT! Literally! We have found a critical hypocrisy in your whole mindstate.

Originally posted by suzy ryan
-You can deny that burqas frighten and offend people all you like but that doesn't make it so. Like the swastica, burqas have become a symbol of a threatening and dangerous belief, DUE to people who demand the right to wear them not those you so ignorantly accuse of being ignorant.

I just drew a swastika on a piece of paper. Hmm... IM NOT AFRAID!!! It is a symbol. The intent behind it is what is RELEVANT. Wake up!

Originally posted by suzy ryan
I am so tired of people who want to sound P.C. without having the guts to address admittedly, sensative yet extreemly relevant issues.

Guts?! I am picking you apart to your face! Am I not adressing every angle of this issue you have raised? What are you saying? You embarass yourself with this sound byte repetition! Let me guess - the "politically correct" paradigm shift forced you to keep all your real opinions to yourself as your fellow peers would be offended? All that **** brewing inside! It explains much, my child.

Originally posted by suzy ryan
It is ignorant to just say, "let everyone do what they will" because the topic is difficult, which I admit it is, but maybe if they really understood that, and why, their NOT REQUIRED dress caused fear in their FELLOW CITIZENS, they would CARE ENOUGH about them, to be, and make everyone else, happy with modest dress.

Pitiful frightened children these citzens are! Grow up children. It is not the clothing! Use your brains! With what am I debating? This is surreal!

It is like me asserting that ALL australians have -tragically low IQ's or -sociopathic tendencies or are -suffering from post traumatic stress disorder --> just based on your posts! Guts? I'll show you guts... LOL

[edit on 1/2/2006 by theBLESSINGofVISION]

everyone who displays a swastika is bad..nazi's for example..every one who wears a burqa isnt...what you people are saying are not intune with democratic elements. what you are talking about now are fascist elements in society. the instance a democratic society votes to ban one element of a culture be the burqa, it has automatically denieing that culture its right to freedom and hence discriminating its democratic elements. Why not make all muslims carry special id cards to further identify them then the average australian anglo saxon? we should might as well lock all the muslims up in designated areas and leave them there because we all know they arent capable of blending in this FREE COUNTRY (sarcasm)

Originally posted by AceOfBase
There's a big differenace between wearing Nikes and wearing burqas.



Some women don't even want to take them off for job interviews and then they apply for social services money because they can't get a job.

Here's an article on it that also mentions the burqa ban:

despardes

yes this style of burqa is too far fetched..but parting from ways that have been learned and applied for generations isnt exactly easy. Dont expect muslim women to drop covering their hair at least and a modest dress code to blend into australia norms..what ever that may be at times...YOU suzy_ryan are a clear example of australia hidden/silent voice of rascism..would you ever stand up in public and express your opinoins?? you probably wouldnt...just like the leader of cronulla riots...he is now so scared he has gone into hiding...its funny how as soon as he sobered up he realised what he had just began..

Mod Edit: Fixed Quote Tags.

[edit on 2/1/2006 by Mirthful Me]

Originally posted by q_ball
everyone who displays a swastika is bad..

Learn the origins and meanings of symbols before you go there.

Is it OK for me to wear one of these outfits when applying for a job or waiting in line at the DMV?

Originally posted by q_ball
yes this style of burqa is too far fetched..but parting from ways that have been learned and applied for generations isnt exactly easy. Dont expect muslim women to drop covering their hair at least and a modest dress code to blend into australia norms.

They aren't banning hijabs or headscarves, just burqas (and chadors I guess) because they cover a person completely.

Originally posted by AceOfBase
Is it OK for me to wear one of these outfits when applying for a job or waiting in line at the DMV?

how on earth do you comapre the KKK to a burqa..you ignorant monkey

Alright, enough name calling.

I still feel that under so much material anything can be hidden, anything at all.

You can not even tell genders under that amount of clothing, I do not find offensive by any means the clothing.

But I find it very dangerous when so many things are going around with muslin radicals.

All motor bike riders don't rob banks, but because of the few who do, all motor bike riders have to remove their helmuts before entering a bank.

It is nothing to do with race or religion, but a reasonable security issue, in any mobile, open society during this time of declared and regularly "massaged" "International War on Terror". I don't like it, didn't start it, don't believe it is what they say it is, but it doesn't mean it hasn't scared the hell out of alot of people, who have been personally effected, around the world.

I don't know what you were so angrily tearing apart, but it wasn't anything I said. I don't share the fear, or questions of many people but there are many, for a reason, well rather, a vast spread and variety of little, but more frequent and noticeable, reasons. You could have respectfully acknowledged and explained away those fears rather than falsely declaring me racist for offering the issues for discussion.

I admitted it was a sensative issue, which you proved with your rage rather than understanding , you don't alay peoples genuine (reguardless of reasonableness) fears by calling them children and refusing to respectfully address the issues raised.

Positive discrimination is still racist. Making discussion out of bounds, because of race, is racist. Part of being Multi cultural is understanding that all may be called to tolerate things in order to fairly accommodate all.

I don't know what P.C. Fantasy Land you live in, but all societies and States draw all sorts of lines through and exeptions to, all sorts of "rights", for all sorts of reasons, good and bad. Nearly and no clothes, is traditional dress for many cultures, yet that right is forfieted around the world. As more people around the world fall victim to Islamic Extreemists it is not unreasonable to ask Islamics to concider this good will gesture that is not against their religion but supports it.

By asking, 'unexplained traditions' and 'feelings' of one group of people, 'trump' and socially and 'legally', "make guilty" many innocent of ill will but seeking understanding through dialogue, and silence the expression of the fears of all others, whenever issues between the variety of Islamics and anyone else of the rest arise, indicates racism.

The Dutch are famed for their education and social openess, they would not raise this measure without reason worthy of full and honest discussion.

The point is that legislation would ban the use of them in public.
Totally ban them in public.
It is a unrespectable overreaction and the Netherlands is just enflaming the opinions of it's muslim citizens.

IMAGINE YOU BELIEVED IN WEARING THE VEILS AS THEY DO. IMAGINE YOU WERE RAISED WITH THEIR VALUES. NOW YOU ARE TOLD YOU CANNOT PRACTICE YOUR TRADITIONS BEACAUSE SOME PEOPLE ARE AFRAID OF YOU!

I am a young black male in my twenties. If I wear my hair a certain way or dress a certain way with my pants sagging ---- guess what ----- another wretchid group of people fear ME.
We all know that is true.

I say stop being so emotional, so weak.
Stop pre - judging people based on their clothes (unbelievable).
When it is your time, it is your time.

Are you telling me that banning these veils will thwart or even inconvenience terrorists?
Of course not. Please open your mind.

You are in such a great environment to gather thruth. You must ascend from your fears, ignorance, miseducation, prejudices and allow those guys ---> with the arguement that makes the most sense on the most levels ---> allow their perspectives in before you stand so convinced in your opinions. Yours are truly the opinions of someone who will not observe things rationally. I really cannot say much more than that. I regret that these things need saying...



[edit on 1/2/2006 by theBLESSINGofVISION]

The muslims need to exercise a little give and take instead of expecting everyone to obey the laws of their culture while refusing to do the same.

This is what it's like in Saudi Arabia:

Saudi Arabia to deport foreigners violating Ramazan

“Non-Muslim residents must respect Muslims’ feelings by refraining from eating, drinking or smoking in public places during Ramazan, an Interior Ministry statement said. “Authorities will take deterrent measures, namely ending work (contracts) of and deporting violators,” said the statement carried by SPA news agency. (AFP)

These same Saudis will probably bitch and whine about the Netherlands banning the burqa or France banning the headscarves in school.

Mod Note: New External Source Tags – Please Review This Link.

[edit on 2/1/2006 by Mirthful Me]

Originally posted by AceOfBase
The muslims need to exercise a little give and take instead of expecting everyone to obey the laws of their culture while refusing to do the same.

These same Saudis will probably bitch and whine about the Netherlands banning the burqa or France banning the headscarves in school.

[edit on 2/1/2006 by Mirthful Me]

HUH?
Which countries muslims are you talking about? Netherlands' muslim citizens or the country of Saudi?

All muslims included, huh?

I see. They do bad stuff to us so we will do it right back to them - mentality. While thinking that the two sides are different,lol!

Do you dislike the religion itself or the Arabs?
Which is the main problem?
Arabs?
or
Islam?

Lets get to the bottom of this

Originally posted by theBLESSINGofVISION

I see. They do bad stuff to us so we will do it right back to them - mentality. While thinking that the two sides are different,lol!

Do you dislike the religion itself or the Arabs?

We should have the same right to protect our culture as the muslim nations have to protect theirs. To not allow us to do that is hypocritical of the 'muslims'.
I'm using 'muslims' as a collective term because most, if not all muslim countries, put the rights of muslims above all others in their society.

I dislike the religion not the Arabs.
Pakistanis aren't Arabs and neither are Turks but I dislike both of them and of course I also dislike Arab and Berber muslims.

There are two rationales for this move. One is that you can't have people walking around wearing masks, whether its a clan hood, burka, or bat-man cowl. Thats a purely legalistic grounds on which the device can be banned.

The other is that the burqa is a major hinderance to assimilation. Failure to assimilate is what is leading to riots between down-trodden muslims and 'natives' in france and germany and apparently australia too. Thats a purely sociological reason to ban it.

Personally, I think that the things are disgusting. They're obviously not required by muslims, most muslims don't wear them. They also, I get the impression, existed long before islam and aren't limited to it, nor even that part of the world, and are nothing more than men controlling their women.

Surely a goodly muslim woman can wear something like a nun's habit and still be dressing 'modestly'.

There is no question that the State can ban the burqa, it is a covering a person's face.

The state has no business setting a dress code period. I hear the wardrums of the Facists....

[edit on 3-1-2006 by sardion2000]

Originally posted by sardion2000
The state has no business setting a dress code period. I hear the wardrums of the Facists....

Yes.