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Now we know where Russia stands!
page: 2share:
I think I'm more suprised that any of you are suprised by this than I am by what good old double-speak Vlad is saying. There is money in peddling
those weapons, regardless the customer and Vlad is simply following the money. He assumes (Erroneaously I might add) that he will appear as a hero to
both his countrymen and the Arabs in the middle-east. Perhaps in the short-term, but in the long term there will be consequences for Russia due to an
armed middle-east. Apparently he either a.) didn't learn from other western mistakes (i.e.: The US arming Saddam, the US creating the Taliban, the
US supporting the Shah etc...) or b.) doesn't care about the consequences.
Does good old Vlad think that the Afghans have forgotten the soviet incursions? Does he believe that these Muslims are not sensitive to their fellow Chechyan Muslim brothers? Does he believe that Russia has been forgiven for Beslan? I think not. The hardliners in the middle-east do not forget, they exact revenge when the time is right - as they will do with Russia. Russia is NOT a muslim country, is not Sharia (Muslim law) and is every bit an infidel nation as other Western Nations. Asskissing will never excuse that in islamofascist circles. The terrorist will simply smile and thank Russia when they use those weapons against here -and rest assured, they will.
Sadly, this short-sighted money-grab will only make Western nations less safe, further embolden the terrorist nations of the world, exacerabate and lengthen the war on terrorism and contribut to hundreds of thousands of more dead and maimed. You can look forward to a nuclear holocaust in our lifetime - guaranteed. However, it won't be Russia versus the US. It will be Russian supplied missiles, carrying Russian designed nuclear warheads produced in underground labs throughout the Middle-east launched against Western interests - Russian included. Just remeber to thank short-sighted Vlad.
Does good old Vlad think that the Afghans have forgotten the soviet incursions? Does he believe that these Muslims are not sensitive to their fellow Chechyan Muslim brothers? Does he believe that Russia has been forgiven for Beslan? I think not. The hardliners in the middle-east do not forget, they exact revenge when the time is right - as they will do with Russia. Russia is NOT a muslim country, is not Sharia (Muslim law) and is every bit an infidel nation as other Western Nations. Asskissing will never excuse that in islamofascist circles. The terrorist will simply smile and thank Russia when they use those weapons against here -and rest assured, they will.
Sadly, this short-sighted money-grab will only make Western nations less safe, further embolden the terrorist nations of the world, exacerabate and lengthen the war on terrorism and contribut to hundreds of thousands of more dead and maimed. You can look forward to a nuclear holocaust in our lifetime - guaranteed. However, it won't be Russia versus the US. It will be Russian supplied missiles, carrying Russian designed nuclear warheads produced in underground labs throughout the Middle-east launched against Western interests - Russian included. Just remeber to thank short-sighted Vlad.
Kozmo, remember Grozny?
Even if the middle east turns against them, Russia does not have the ethical qualms about carpet bombing the bejesus out of anything and anyone that pisses it off. Like I said earlier, the russian military really doesn't comprehend the idea of 'human cost', theirs or the enemy's.
Putin is old-school KGB. He has the balls to turn places like Fallujah into parking lots rather than expend valuable materiel on capturing it. COntrary to popular opinion, Russia HAS learned from the past fifty or so years, albehit from the school of hard knocks.
DE
Even if the middle east turns against them, Russia does not have the ethical qualms about carpet bombing the bejesus out of anything and anyone that pisses it off. Like I said earlier, the russian military really doesn't comprehend the idea of 'human cost', theirs or the enemy's.
Putin is old-school KGB. He has the balls to turn places like Fallujah into parking lots rather than expend valuable materiel on capturing it. COntrary to popular opinion, Russia HAS learned from the past fifty or so years, albehit from the school of hard knocks.
DE
Originally posted by SIRR1
Putin Calls Russia Defender of Islamic World.
The Russian Orthodox Cross
atop Russian Orthodox Churches
has a crescent moon at its base...
this moon symbolizes Islam.
When Putin was inaugurated,
Patriarch Alexi gave Him a
Holy Icon of St Nevsky...
very symbolic indeed !
The famous helmet of St Nevsky
[ in the Kremlin armory ] has an
Islamic inscription:
Help from God
An imminent victory
And grant this to true believers
*
Originally posted by Ivanova
The Russian Orthodox Cross
atop Russian Orthodox Churches
has a crescent moon at its base...
this moon symbolizes Islam.
Hmm...I've always thought I knew where Russia stood. So, this is no great surprise to me. Anyone who has done any real research on Russia and the
Middle East would see that Russia may not necessarily be our friends. Does it seem to far fetched to think that Russia was part of the reason behind
the invasion of Iraq? Or am I the only one in this entire forum that has made that connection?
Where Russia stands? Russia doesn't stand anywhere. Russia sits between Europe and the Pacific, and between the middle east and the North
Pole. That is to say, they're looking out for number one and number one only, same as anyone else.
Where have they "stood" for Islam? Jolly fine stand they made in Iraq and Afghanistan (twice for Afghanistan).
This is strictly political- just grandstanding. He's trying to tell the Chechens that as Muslims they might have a Real Politik arrangement against America, and as evidence he's got a lot of hollow words and futile foot-dragging that Russia has done in the UN, and a few arms sales which were all about money.
He's probably nuts if he thinks that's going to trump the fact that the Chechens are sick of Russia and want spit to do with them. Tell me, would you embrace the enemy in your home just because they were temporarily on the outs with your long-lost cousin's enemy?
It's politics- just words. Russia isn't going to fight on the side of Islam against any serious enemy anywhere in the world; not just to make the Chechens happy. There'd have to be a lot of money at stake.
[edit on 5-7-2006 by The Vagabond]
Where have they "stood" for Islam? Jolly fine stand they made in Iraq and Afghanistan (twice for Afghanistan).
This is strictly political- just grandstanding. He's trying to tell the Chechens that as Muslims they might have a Real Politik arrangement against America, and as evidence he's got a lot of hollow words and futile foot-dragging that Russia has done in the UN, and a few arms sales which were all about money.
He's probably nuts if he thinks that's going to trump the fact that the Chechens are sick of Russia and want spit to do with them. Tell me, would you embrace the enemy in your home just because they were temporarily on the outs with your long-lost cousin's enemy?
It's politics- just words. Russia isn't going to fight on the side of Islam against any serious enemy anywhere in the world; not just to make the Chechens happy. There'd have to be a lot of money at stake.
[edit on 5-7-2006 by The Vagabond]
Originally posted by Skadi_the_Evil_Elf
Putin is as snake tounged as Dubya.
Except he is way smarter IMO He is one of the smarest and most Shady of any of the major power leader in my view.
I would never never under estimate Putin
The Russian Orthodox Cross has a cresent Im Russian orthdox and have never seen any cresent on my cross or church. Its a cross with a slash about normal cross and a slanted slash at the foot of the cross no muslim moon.
[edit on 5-7-2006 by ShadowXIX]
I agree, Putin is definately a man not to cross.
You can see if his face that there's a lot of processing going on in that head,
and that he'd probably barely flinch while killing you.
I reackon he rox!
You can see if his face that there's a lot of processing going on in that head,
and that he'd probably barely flinch while killing you.
I reackon he rox!
Originally posted by ShadowXIX
The Russian Orthodox Cross has a cresent Im Russian orthdox and have never seen any cresent on my cross or church. Its a cross with a slash about normal cross and a slanted slash at the foot of the cross no muslim moon.
You obviously do not go to church at the
newly rebuilt Church of Christ the Saviour
in Moscow.
At the base of the crosses atop the
Church is a crescent moon.
*
Nope no Moscow for me my church and every one Ive ever seen looks like this
pic1
pic2
pic3
I could find hundreds of such buildings and crosses with no cresent shape at the base.
Looking more into the Cresent it turns out its a symbol during pre-Mongolian period long before Russia had any relation to the Islam. and get this
Signify a Russian victory over Islam
www.answers.com...
[edit on 5-7-2006 by ShadowXIX]
pic1
pic2
pic3
I could find hundreds of such buildings and crosses with no cresent shape at the base.
Looking more into the Cresent it turns out its a symbol during pre-Mongolian period long before Russia had any relation to the Islam. and get this
The common misconception attributes these to the fact that in 1552, Tsar Ivan IV (the Terrible) conquered the city of Kazan which had been under the rule of Muslem Tatars, and in remembrance of this, he decreed that from henceforth the Islamic crescent be placed at the bottom of the crosses to signify the victory of the cross (Christianity) over the crescent (Islam).
Signify a Russian victory over Islam
www.answers.com...
[edit on 5-7-2006 by ShadowXIX]
Originally posted by Ivanova
*
Nevertheless.. the greatest Russian Orthodox Church in Russia...
the newly rebuilt, Christ the Saviour in Moscow, has a crescent moon
at the base of its crosses.
Here is photo of completed Church:
Here is close-up photo of cross being installed on Church:
*
Notice there is a globe under the crescent moon.
Notice the stars [there are 12 of them] around the
sunburst in the center of the cross.
Revelation 12
There appeared a great wonder in Heaven
a woman clothed with the sun, the moon under
her feet, and on her head a crown of twelve stars.
*
[edit on 6-7-2006 by Ivanova]
It is funny to see so many opinions about Russia, yet so few people actually knowing the situation in Russia.
Putin stated that Russia is the supporter of the Islamic World (in fact he first did this exact thing 2 years ago) due to several reasons. Money and oil are probably the last reasons importance wise.
1. Islam is second religion in Russia after Orthodox Christianity. In fact about 55% of Russians are aetheists. Only 15-20% are Orthodox. Islam is not far behind with 10-15%. -This is based on CIA World Factbook. Out of about 80 main regions (provinces) in Russia, about 15 are Muslim. Islam is the fastest growing religion in Russia. Out of ex Soviet Union states, 1/3 was Muslim- mostly in Central Asia. Islam is not just some far away culture to Russians, like it is to Americans and Europeans. Islam is PART of the Russian culture. it figures richly into Russian history, and traditions. AND THAT IS NOTHING TO BE ASHAMED OF.
2. Russia has maintained ties and relations with Arabs abd Muslims longer than most of Europe has, let alone the US. When the Russian tsars in the Medieval Ages were considering a religion for Russian people, Islam was one of the main options. Russian Orthodoxy in came from Constantinople (current day Istanbul). Even after the fall of Constantinople, Russia had much influence in the Middle East.
Russian relations with Afganistan, Iraq, and Iran (much of what used to be Persia), date back hundreds of years. During the Cold War Russians had military, political, and economic ties with countries like Iraq, Afganistan, Syria, Egypt, Sudan, Libya, Iran, and others. Russia send thousands of engineers, economists, and siplomats to each of those countries. Russia is not an amateur dealing with Middle East so. It had done thise hundreds of years prior to America and its interest in oil (and nothing else I might add).
3. After the Chechnyan War (which Russia won ultimately), Russia needed to assure 15% of its population (Muslims) as well as other minority groups that it is dedicated to upholding their culture, and is in no way against Islam. Putin went on a campaign to achieve this 3 years ago, and much of it has been successful. Today Russian Muslims feel more like a part of Russia than they ever have.
In fact the war in Chechnya was not about Islam or oil (small part was about oil pipelines). It was about keeping the country together, and not letting it separate into hundreds of independent and poor nations.
4. After America started its WOT, Russia noticed the growing animosity towards the US among Muslim nations in the world, and pretty much everyone else in the world. It correctly decided to exploit this animosity for its favor. The so called members of the imaginary "Axis of Evil", wanted support from Russia against their new enemy. Syria, Iran, and several other states had no one else to turn to. Russia was only glad to help them, and improve its relations with them.
5. True part of these relations were about selling weapons and military tech. But its more than that. It was done to ensure the survival of those states in the time when US is toppling down anyone it feels like anywhere it feels like. If you noticed countries outside Middle East are starting to improve relations with Russia. Germany, Italy, France, Mexico, Chile, Venezuela, Cuba once again, Colombia, Peru. Russia is a strong country, and there is no reason why it does not have a right to have relations, economic and military with countries around the world, just like US does.
-Oil? Russia does not need oil. It is a large exporter of oil, and it has its hands full with its own rich resources. Don't mistake it for America, that both has oil, wants more oil, and will kill anyone to get that precious oil so its corporate conglomerates can continue unwinding its globalization machine around the world.
Many Muslims do feel like Russia is the only support left in the world.
Putin stated that Russia is the supporter of the Islamic World (in fact he first did this exact thing 2 years ago) due to several reasons. Money and oil are probably the last reasons importance wise.
1. Islam is second religion in Russia after Orthodox Christianity. In fact about 55% of Russians are aetheists. Only 15-20% are Orthodox. Islam is not far behind with 10-15%. -This is based on CIA World Factbook. Out of about 80 main regions (provinces) in Russia, about 15 are Muslim. Islam is the fastest growing religion in Russia. Out of ex Soviet Union states, 1/3 was Muslim- mostly in Central Asia. Islam is not just some far away culture to Russians, like it is to Americans and Europeans. Islam is PART of the Russian culture. it figures richly into Russian history, and traditions. AND THAT IS NOTHING TO BE ASHAMED OF.
2. Russia has maintained ties and relations with Arabs abd Muslims longer than most of Europe has, let alone the US. When the Russian tsars in the Medieval Ages were considering a religion for Russian people, Islam was one of the main options. Russian Orthodoxy in came from Constantinople (current day Istanbul). Even after the fall of Constantinople, Russia had much influence in the Middle East.
Russian relations with Afganistan, Iraq, and Iran (much of what used to be Persia), date back hundreds of years. During the Cold War Russians had military, political, and economic ties with countries like Iraq, Afganistan, Syria, Egypt, Sudan, Libya, Iran, and others. Russia send thousands of engineers, economists, and siplomats to each of those countries. Russia is not an amateur dealing with Middle East so. It had done thise hundreds of years prior to America and its interest in oil (and nothing else I might add).
3. After the Chechnyan War (which Russia won ultimately), Russia needed to assure 15% of its population (Muslims) as well as other minority groups that it is dedicated to upholding their culture, and is in no way against Islam. Putin went on a campaign to achieve this 3 years ago, and much of it has been successful. Today Russian Muslims feel more like a part of Russia than they ever have.
In fact the war in Chechnya was not about Islam or oil (small part was about oil pipelines). It was about keeping the country together, and not letting it separate into hundreds of independent and poor nations.
4. After America started its WOT, Russia noticed the growing animosity towards the US among Muslim nations in the world, and pretty much everyone else in the world. It correctly decided to exploit this animosity for its favor. The so called members of the imaginary "Axis of Evil", wanted support from Russia against their new enemy. Syria, Iran, and several other states had no one else to turn to. Russia was only glad to help them, and improve its relations with them.
5. True part of these relations were about selling weapons and military tech. But its more than that. It was done to ensure the survival of those states in the time when US is toppling down anyone it feels like anywhere it feels like. If you noticed countries outside Middle East are starting to improve relations with Russia. Germany, Italy, France, Mexico, Chile, Venezuela, Cuba once again, Colombia, Peru. Russia is a strong country, and there is no reason why it does not have a right to have relations, economic and military with countries around the world, just like US does.
-Oil? Russia does not need oil. It is a large exporter of oil, and it has its hands full with its own rich resources. Don't mistake it for America, that both has oil, wants more oil, and will kill anyone to get that precious oil so its corporate conglomerates can continue unwinding its globalization machine around the world.
Many Muslims do feel like Russia is the only support left in the world.
Originally posted by Ivanova
*
Nevertheless.. the greatest Russian Orthodox Church in Russia...
the newly rebuilt, Christ the Saviour in Moscow, has a crescent moon
at the base of its crosses.
Here is photo of completed Church:
Here is close-up photo of cross being installed on Church:
True Russian religion has much to do with Islam. You can do some research on it. Islam appeared in Russia and southern ex-Soviet states soon after the death of Muhamad. About the same time Christianity appeared in what is today Armenia. Both religions spread north towards what is now Russia. And the rest goes from there.
Originally posted by DeusEx
Kozmo, remember Grozny?
Even if the middle east turns against them, Russia does not have the ethical qualms about carpet bombing the bejesus out of anything and anyone that pisses it off. Like I said earlier, the russian military really doesn't comprehend the idea of 'human cost', theirs or the enemy's.
Putin is old-school KGB. He has the balls to turn places like Fallujah into parking lots rather than expend valuable materiel on capturing it. COntrary to popular opinion, Russia HAS learned from the past fifty or so years, albehit from the school of hard knocks.
DE
If Russia wanted to quickly end the Chechnya affair it would have bomber the entire Chechnya into oblivion -Chechnya is the size of Rhode Island, so that would not have been tough to do. True Russia pounded Grozny heavily, but only after it warned the civilians to get out, and enclosed the city with mostly rebels and their human shields remaining. That was during the first war under Yeltsin however.
Putin is a different leader, and under him Russians treaded more carefully, trying to have as few civilian casualties as possible. Both sides waged total war however, so civilian casualties on both sides could not be avoided.
Originally posted by maloy
True Russian religion has much to do with Islam.
I know this... Tsar Vladimir is the long hoped for... Mahdi !
Originally posted by Ivanova
I know this... Tsar Vladimir is the long hoped for... Mahdi !
It would still be better than that Catholic nut they got over in the While House.
russia, defender of the islamic faith? lol! hey what do the insurgents in chechnya yell when they down a russian chopper? ALLAH AKBAR!!! lol oh and
there was this lil war in afghanistan back in the 80s.....
Originally posted by charliegrs
russia, defender of the islamic faith? lol! hey what do the insurgents in chechnya yell when they down a russian chopper? ALLAH AKBAR!!! lol oh and there was this lil war in afghanistan back in the 80s.....
LOL.....
and there was 1,500 years of history that somebody just overstepped with cliche comment.
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